Gaza militants fire dozens of mortars into Israel

[Gerald]

Palestinian militants in Gaza have fired dozens of missiles into southern Israel in what appears to be their heaviest such barrage in two years.

About 50 mortars were fired - two Israelis were hurt, Israel says.

Israeli tanks later shelled targets in the coastal strip, wounding at least five people, Palestinian officials say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12795809


Note: 19 March 2011 Last updated at 16:11 GMT

[CCIP]

Hamas back to their usual game...

I wonder how much of it is motivated by the fact that both in the region and around the world, public attention is mostly elsewhere right now.

[Gerald]

It is true, glances directed entirely clear in other parts, which is understandable

[Tribesman]

I wonder how much of it is motivated by the fact that both in the region and around the world, public attention is mostly elsewhere right now.
I would say their motivation at this moment was the siezure of the arms shipment.
It is a regular pattern.

[Oberon]

50 mortar shells = two people hurt?

Their accuracy can't exactly be good either that or half their mortars don't actually explode. :hmmm:

[Jimbuna]

Just so long as they don't go whinging if Israel decide enough is enough and retaliate heavily.

[Gerald]

Israel has probably had enough for a long time ago, but as the world's eyes are fixed on their way, they will choose to think, a low profile currently

[Jimbuna]

I'm not so sure....the worlds eyes are most likely looking elsewhere atm and a swift surgical strike would be completed before heads and gazes could change direction.

[Skybird]

For every projectile they fire, take one square-kilometer of Palestinian territory, kick all Palestinians out, and build Israeli settlements there.

They either stop firing - or they don't and by that drive themselves out of the place.

After those two animals massacred that Jewish family two weeks ago, they already did something like that: no big strike was the answer, but the permission to build another one- or twohundred settlement buildings, I think.

[Tribesman]

For every projectile they fire, take one square-kilometer of Palestinian territory, kick all Palestinians out, and build Israeli settlements there.


Nuttier than a sack of almonds:doh:

[yubba]

And yet I have too get the the news here, and you all thought I was nuttier than a payday bar.

[Tribesman]

And yet I have too get the the news here, and you all thought I was nuttier than a payday bar.
That maybe so, but your quaint version of nuttyness with aliens doesn't stretch as far as Skybird with his living room manual taken straight from Heydrichs office.

[CCIP]

That maybe so, but your quaint version of nuttyness with aliens doesn't stretch as far as Skybird with his living room manual taken straight from Heydrichs office.

I always find it funny that when I prod them on "well, what's the solution? genocide on muslims?", everyone immediately denies and calls the accusations of advocating a "final solution" exaggarated, unfair and otherwise just smear tactics. And yet here we have it on record... can I rest my case yet? :hmmm:

[yubba]

Yes, too many sheep herders and not enough sheep. I also wonder what, they were thinking when they cut down the last tree on Easter Island.:woot:

[MH]

I always find it funny that when I prod them on "well, what's the solution? genocide on muslims?", everyone immediately denies and calls the accusations of advocating a "final solution" exaggarated, unfair and otherwise just smear tactics. And yet here we have it on record... can I rest my case yet? :hmmm:

Who is them?
Da Israelis/Jews?
or maybe hammas..............
Good to see you all having fun here.

:damn::damn:

[UnderseaLcpl]

For every projectile they fire, take one square-kilometer of Palestinian territory, kick all Palestinians out, and build Israeli settlements there.

They either stop firing - or they don't and by that drive themselves out of the place.

After those two animals massacred that Jewish family two weeks ago, they already did something like that: no big strike was the answer, but the permission to build another one- or twohundred settlement buildings, I think.

I have a better idea. Using agents posing as black-market arms dealers from various nations, we cut Hammas a great deal on what appear to be common mortar shells, but these mortar shells have the firing pin replaced with a contact fuse.

I know, sometimes I'm so brilliant I scare myself.:O:

[Tribesman]

I always find it funny that when I prod them on "well, what's the solution? genocide on muslims?", everyone immediately denies and calls the accusations of advocating a "final solution" exaggarated, unfair and otherwise just smear tactics. And yet here we have it on record... can I rest my case yet?
Its even easier as he doesn't need prodding, just by going on what he writes you see repeatedly the hatred is at a very deep level and often the posts can be matched word for word to either texts by Hitler or the reichs propoganda ministry, there is also that thing about eugenics and superior culture, a fetish about some philosophers, a belief in a global conpiracy matched with a wish to get rid of different political parties, then there is the desire to remove freedoms to save his vision of civilisation.
So when you add his idea that there shouldn't be any geneva or hague conventions restricting nations and match it with his call for crimes against humanity in the interest of lebensraum......

Well it speaks for itself doesn't it, hung by his own words.

Who is them?

Follow the trail MH, its easy to see.
Good to see you all having fun here.

Would you like to step up and defend someone who espouses a 1930s german ideology? That would be quite fun to watch

[TLAM Strike]

I have a better idea. Using agents posing as black-market arms dealers from various nations, we cut Hammas a great deal on what appear to be common mortar shells, but these mortar shells have the firing pin replaced with a contact fuse.

I know, sometimes I'm so brilliant I scare myself.:O:

... you were saying...
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwzvwax5SE4)
Actually the SEALs did just that in 'nam. They would sneak in to enemy ammo dumps and put randomly in boxes sabotaged 7.62mm rounds that would blow up when fired . :haha:

[Gerald]

The bodies of two Palestinian men have been found near the Gaza-Israel border, Palestinian medics report.

The Israeli military has confirmed firing on Saturday on two men who approached the Israeli-enforced no-go zone near the border.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12799772


Note: Update Record,20 March 2011 Last updated at 14:59 GMT

[Rockstar]

Your beloved Egyption freedom fighters are opening the border of Egypt to the Gaza strip where your freedom loving fighters for democracy called Hamas is located. This is great news isn't it? As now your friends in Hamas start shelling Israel in celebration of their new friend Egypt. You will also be glad to know thanks to your version of freedom and democracy Hamas will probably have easier access to arms and ammunition.

[Tribesman]

Your beloved Egyption freedom fighters are opening the border of Egypt to the Gaza strip where your freedom loving fighters for democracy called Hamas is located. This is great news isn't it? As now your friends in Hamas start shelling Israel in celebration of their new friend Egypt. You will also be glad to know thanks to your version of freedom and democracy Hamas will probably have easier access to arms and ammunition.

Look out, its a Taliban supporter throwing a party for pol pot who is dancing a polka with hitler who was a friend of saddam who was your friend, I hope you are happy with the results of your support and are celebrating as the polka is all your fault.

[Jimbuna]

http://img396.imageshack.us/img396/6942/popcorncowtx0.gif

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

For every projectile they fire, take one square-kilometer of Palestinian territory, kick all Palestinians out, and build Israeli settlements there.

While I have some sympathies with your position on Muslims, I must say that if Muslims weren't enemies, this surely would make them so. And if this tactic succeeded, it'll be a utterly brutal act of Might Makes Right.

They either stop firing - or they don't and by that drive themselves out of the place.

Do you mean to say either they "stop firing" and thus accept Israel's enforced and imperialistic occupation of the place, or Israel with the help of the West is right in driving them out by force?

After those two animals massacred that Jewish family two weeks ago, they already did something like that: no big strike was the answer, but the permission to build another one- or twohundred settlement buildings, I think.

As for that Jewish family, I have some sympathy for them but really, the strategic problem is that Israel is a country forced by the Judeo-Christian world on the local inhabitants (despite the Jews' best efforts, the population in that part was still predominantly Palestinian in 1948). It is like trying to build a house in the Antarctic and wondering why you have to keep fighting -80 degree Celcius winds.

And before you say that's no excuse for terrorism, that's true, but the West insisted on maintaining this utterly un-natural (and by usual standards, unfair and imperialist) state of affairs by giving the Israelis a powerful, advanced military, leaving anybody that wishes to oppose them little choice but terrorist tactics...

[Hottentot]

Look out, its a Taliban supporter throwing a party for pol pot who is dancing a polka with hitler who was a friend of saddam who was your friend

You forgot Stalin, who is actually a cloned cucumber with Lenin's brain and mustache attached to it. And in the end it has something to do with he-who-we-shall-not-name-here-lest-we-turn-this-thread-into-another-one-of-those-threads.

[nikimcbee]

I have a better idea. Using agents posing as black-market arms dealers from various nations, we cut Hammas a great deal on what appear to be common mortar shells, but these mortar shells have the firing pin replaced with a contact fuse.

I know, sometimes I'm so brilliant I scare myself.:O:

Now that is a great idea! I wonder if they inspect the weapons before they use them? Do they just open the crate, and start firing them? If they don't inspect them, I'll add to your idea, and make those rounds the white phosphorus rounds:rock:.

[MH]

And before you say that's no excuse for terrorism, that's true, but the West insisted on maintaining this utterly un-natural (and by usual standards, unfair and imperialist) state of affairs by giving the Israelis a powerful, advanced military, leaving anybody that wishes to oppose them little choice but terrorist tactics...

Yes in know other way around would be much sim[ler and would not take so long.
Or should we just fight each other like Bedouin tribes right?
Oh Israel is imperialistic state.
We are are given everything and don't actually have economy and industry of our own.


.............little choice but terrorist tactics...

Really sorry for that.:ping:

[Penguin]

While I have some sympathies with your position on Muslims, I must say that if Muslims weren't enemies, this surely would make them so. And if this tactic succeeded, it'll be a utterly brutal act of Might Makes Right.


You are right about this, sadly this is the only thing you got right in your whole post.


Do you mean to say either they "stop firing" and thus accept Israel's enforced and imperialistic occupation of the place, or Israel with the help of the West is right in driving them out by force?


How do you define occupation? The Israeli Army left Gaza 5 years ago.
A stop of the firing does not necessarily mean that you accept another position - it just shows that you might be able to express your demands by other means.


As for that Jewish family, I have some sympathy for them but really, the strategic problem is that Israel is a country forced by the Judeo-Christian world on the local inhabitants (despite the Jews' best efforts, the population in that part was still predominantly Palestinian in 1948). It is like trying to build a house in the Antarctic and wondering why you have to keep fighting -80 degree Celcius winds.


I would say that a jewish poluation of one third of "Palestine" in '48 is not a small minority. Where did the Palestinians all came from? Or do you mean arab people who lived in the area called Palestine?
I also think that the Jews have a slightly bigger connection to this territory than you have to the Antarctic.



And before you say that's no excuse for terrorism, that's true, but the West insisted on maintaining this utterly un-natural (and by usual standards, unfair and imperialist) state of affairs by giving the Israelis a powerful, advanced military, leaving anybody that wishes to oppose them little choice but terrorist tactics...


A question: how long are you a refugee? 5,6 generations, like the palestinian refugees of today? I am asking, because I am a son of a refugee from East Prussia. Am I also a refugee, as I am only 2nd gen? East Prussia is Poland today. How can most people of today accept this, while others bitch about other partitions made >65 years ago? Much injustices happened there - I don't claim that everything with the partition went golden - but same as the partition of Germany is a result of a war, there was this this little thingy called the 1948 War. The results are known.

No other choice than terrorist tactics? lmao! You make it sound like the people are in a permanent war. Maybe it is in your imagination that you see IDF tanks rolling all day through the territories, like SS divisions through Russia, crushing any Arab they see.
I hate most decisions of my government, and the German military is much more powerfull than my nonexistent one. Maybe I should fire some mortars at Berlin every day to make my position clear - I think I have no other choice...

[Kazuaki Shimazaki II]

How do you define occupation? The Israeli Army left Gaza 5 years ago.

A stop of the firing does not necessarily mean that you accept another position - it just shows that you might be able to express your demands by other means.[/quote]

If I had been taking over 100% of your house for decades, and "5 years ago" I left one of your rooms (and will re-enter on the barest pretence), how happy are you? Do you think you will seriously get me to even leave half your house by "peaceful negotiation" (and forget legal, because for some reason the local judges are pretty much my buds - in fact, they were the turds who gave half your house to me in the first place, and I took the rest of my house when you tried to over-turn that injustice with your own means...)

I would say that a jewish poluation of one third of "Palestine" in '48 is not a small minority. Where did the Palestinians all came from? Or do you mean arab people who lived in the area called Palestine?
I also think that the Jews have a slightly bigger connection to this territory than you have to the Antarctic.

In general, if you have 1/3rd of the population, what will happen is that a state is created based on the 2/3rds, and you will hopefully have a say as a sizable minority. Or at least you get 1/3rd of the land. Not half and half and evolving into almost 100-0.

As for the whole history connection, surely, the guys actually living there at the moment should have priority over a Biblical land claim...

Frankly, I'm sure I'm only the 1 millionth guy to suggest that Israel should have been built in Germany, vacating the Germans if necessary. It may not be the Holy Land, but Germany has a nice climate, the Germans aren't out to kill them by then, and seeing what they had done, it would be some kind of just peanuts.

A question: how long are you a refugee? 5,6 generations, like the palestinian refugees of today? I am asking, because I am a son of a refugee from East Prussia. Am I also a refugee, as I am only 2nd gen? East Prussia is Poland today. How can most people of today accept this, while others bitch about other partitions made >65 years ago? Much injustices happened there - I don't claim that everything with the partition went golden - but same as the partition of Germany is a result of a war, there was this this little thingy called the 1948 War. The results are known.

Not directly comparable, at least in moral terms. East Prussia became Poland after the Germans attacked most of the world and sacked Poland real hard. The 1948 war is triggered by the less than fair partition. One is more or less just punishment for an injustice, one is a consequence of a failed attempt to over-turn an injustice. They are comparable?

No other choice than terrorist tactics? lmao! You make it sound like the people are in a permanent war. Maybe it is in your imagination that you see IDF tanks rolling all day through the territories, like SS divisions through Russia, crushing any Arab they see.
I hate most decisions of my government, and the German military is much more powerfull than my nonexistent one. Maybe I should fire some mortars at Berlin every day to make my position clear - I think I have no other choice...

It may be your only chance (not a big one, but bigger than "peaceful efforts" solely by yourself). I'll also think that if you did have a substantial army, you'll be much less interested in just mortaring Berlin.

[joegrundman]

This is just to clarify a side point - the award of prussia to poland.

It was not awarded to poland as a punishment.

It was because under the terms of the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty in 1939, Germany took about 2/3rds of Western Poland and the Soviet Union took the 1/3 of E.Poland.

This was in some way an attempt by Germany and the USSR to redress the losses in ww1, whereby the treaty of Brest-Litovsk in 1917 saw Russia lose its Polish territories to Germany, and the final defeat of germany led to poland declaring independence.

But with the USSR victorious in Germany in 1945, the USSR was happy to reinstate Poland, but refused to hand over those parts of E.Poland taken by the USSR in 1939, and that are now incorporated into Belarus and Ukraine. Poland protested its loss of so much territory, and the USSR decided to compensate Poland by removing a slice of E.Germany and giving it to Poland.

it is why so many famous German cities like Stettin and Breslau are not on the map anymore (now Szczecin and Wroclaw)

But E.Prussia specifically is normally used to refer to the pocket of Germany as existed between the wars centered on the city of Koenigsberg, to the north east of poland. This area is currently Russian not Polish. Koenigsberg was renamed Kaliningrad and the area is known as the Kaliningrad Oblast

[MH]

If I had been taking over 100% of your house for decades, and "5 years ago" I left one of your rooms (and will re-enter on the barest pretence), how happy are you? Do you think you will seriously get me to even leave half your house by "peaceful negotiation" (and forget legal, because for some reason the local judges are pretty much my buds - in fact, they were the turds who gave half your house to me in the first place, and I took the rest of my house when you tried to over-turn that injustice with your own means...)
.

So the best thing is to simply destroy the whole building instead to turning it to palace with separate entrances.

[UnderseaLcpl]

... you were saying...
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xwzvwax5SE4)
Yeah but unlike counter-battery fire we wouldn't need troops on the ground and the first shell would have produced that effect.... well, more or less. Still, I like that video almost as much as like the one where the insurgents try to jury-rig an artillery rocket and blow themselves to pieces.:up:

Actually the SEALs did just that in 'nam. They would sneak in to enemy ammo dumps and put randomly in boxes sabotaged 7.62mm rounds that would blow up when fired . :haha:

Interesting.:hmmm: I hadn't heard that, but I'd like to find out more about it if you know of a source or a book off the top of your head.

Now that is a great idea! I wonder if they inspect the weapons before they use them? Do they just open the crate, and start firing them? If they don't inspect them, I'll add to your idea, and make those rounds the white phosphorus rounds.


In the case of mortar rounds they intend to fire I don't think they look too closely. A disproportionately high number of mortar rounds fired at us in OIF II and III were duds, launched by untrained crews that were incapable of targeting by any means other than seeing the impact and trying to "walk" fire onto a target, so I doubt they take rounds apart and inspect them. Even so, the success of this plan would hinge upon what measures the buyers took to inspect the rounds, if any.

The idea of using WP had occurred to me. It has a lot of advantages in that it would both mark the target location for instant response by authorities and severely burn anyone in the vicinity to death and utterly destroy the tube, as well as igniting stockpiled ammo near the tube. However, I decided against suggesting it as WP is a terrible weapon to use on people and would likely cause unacceptable collateral damage to civilian property and personnel in the areas where Hamas operates. A better solution might be to embed a fairly delicate nitroglycerin capsule within the warhead so that the detonation of one of the booby-trapped rounds would set off sympathetic detonations in any others nearby. The damage would be catastrophic but limited to the blast area and any evidence of the rigged rounds would be destroyed.

[Penguin]

If I had been taking over 100% of your house for decades, and "5 years ago" I left one of your rooms (and will re-enter on the barest pretence), how happy are you? Do you think you will seriously get me to even leave half your house by "peaceful negotiation" (and forget legal, because for some reason the local judges are pretty much my buds - in fact, they were the turds who gave half your house to me in the first place, and I took the rest of my house when you tried to over-turn that injustice with your own means...)


Well, they tried to make a 2 apartment building out of the house, one party didn't want it.
Also it's quite normal in an apartment building that the police comes to your door if you party too hard - sometimes they even get in and seize the stereo. ;)


In general, if you have 1/3rd of the population, what will happen is that a state is created based on the 2/3rds, and you will hopefully have a say as a sizable minority. Or at least you get 1/3rd of the land. Not half and half and evolving into almost 100-0.


Well it was the plan of the United Nations to build two nations which can exist on their own. A partition based on the share of the population is not always fair.


As for the whole history connection, surely, the guys actually living there at the moment should have priority over a Biblical land claim...


The connection to that land is not only religious, but also historical.


Frankly, I'm sure I'm only the 1 millionth guy to suggest that Israel should have been built in Germany, vacating the Germans if necessary. It may not be the Holy Land, but Germany has a nice climate, the Germans aren't out to kill them by then, and seeing what they had done, it would be some kind of just peanuts.


Well, most jewish people certainly didn't have the most interest to live in the land which killed many of them.
Personally I would like to exchange many of the people who live here for jewish immigrants - we would certainly have better comedy shows on tv :O:


Not directly comparable, at least in moral terms. East Prussia became Poland after the Germans attacked most of the world and sacked Poland real hard. The 1948 war is triggered by the less than fair partition. One is more or less just punishment for an injustice, one is a consequence of a failed attempt to over-turn an injustice. They are comparable?


I wanted to compare the refugee issue, the claims that the Palestinians are still refugees.
On the other hand, when you see that from a german nationalistic side, one could say that the attack on Poland was an attempt to turn over an injustice from the treaty of Versailles. This is how the german reactionaries and Nazis saw it.


It may be your only chance (not a big one, but bigger than "peaceful efforts" solely by yourself). I'll also think that if you did have a substantial army, you'll be much less interested in just mortaring Berlin.

I don't see how it is your only chance to target civilians - ok, given in that siege mentality every civilian is a soldier for the zionists...:doh:
What do they expect: "Oh, you shoot rockets at our towns, now we understand: you don't like us! Ok, you're right, we'll leave!"


edit: I'll address joe's post in another post, don't want to mix all issues...

[Gerald]

Israel's prime minister has pledged to act "aggressively and responsibly" to restore security after a bomb exploded at a bus stop in central Jerusalem.

One person was killed and more than 30 others were injured after the blast at a crowded bus stop in Jerusalem.

The city suffered a spate of bus bombings by Palestinian militants between 2000 and 2004 but attacks had stopped in recent years.

Benjamin Netanyahu said the attackers had sought to try the country's will.

On Wednesday, Israeli military aircraft launched strikes east of Gaza City after Palestinian militants fired two rockets into southern Israel.

Islamic Jihad said it had carried out the rocket attacks in reprisal for the killing of eight Palestinians near Gaza City on Tuesday. Four of those killed were members of one family, two of them were children.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12843277


Note: Update Record,23 March 2011 Last updated at 21:42 GMT

[August]

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b128/SL65/Israel2.jpg

[Oberon]

I shouldn't...but what the heck I'm going to anyway... :har::har:

[Slyguy3129]

I'm personally tired of the terrorist loving heart bleeding mind numbing liberals of not only my country but the world over.

I wish Israel would just lay the hammer down while the world is distracted, it is after all thier citizens bieng killed by these madmen, no one else has a say so in the matter.

Nothing pisses me off more than a coward who would rather hide behind women or children or shoot at them rather than to stand up and fight. No I'm sorry the only thing that pisses me off more are the dumb **** liberals who side with them because they don't have a brain.

I am not saying wipe Palestinians off the map, just take over. They want to hide let them hide for a reason. Impose a law on these savages and teach them some bloody manners. If they want to die for thier "country" then help them out.

*End rant*

Whew that felt good. That had been boiling over after reading a few post in this thread. Love the piced caption, might be going to hell but it got a chuckle from me. Helped cool me down a bit. No telling what I would have said without it.

[Tribesman]

I am not saying wipe Israelis off the map, just take over. They want to hide let them hide for a reason. Impose a law on these savages and teach them some bloody manners. If they want to die for thier "country" then help them out.


Two sides of the same coin, just like the "might is right" crowd who unwittingly justify blowing up innocent people on buses.

[Skybird]

The new rulers in Egyptr do not take it that serious anymore to keep the border to Gaza shut. They allow it to be penetrated, which for weapon smugglers means: the border is open.

Some days later Hamas starts to rock again.

I'm sure both has nothing to do with each other.

The tension on Israeli streets is said to have mounted since longer, though. With over one fifth of the people inside their borders being Palestinians, rapidly climbing, the Israelis must look with quite some uneasiness at the rebellions in the Arab nations.

[Tribesman]

I'm sure both has nothing to do with each other.

Correct.:up:
Oh but Sky is trying to say they are connected:rotfl2:

The new people in Egypt currently happen to be the same old people with just one person removed, the deal on the border was defunct ever since Fatah lost the election and failed in its coup attempt, so its lack of effective enforcement is nothing new. Even before the border arrangements were defunct they never really worked any more than Americas Mexican border works.

With over one fifth of the people inside their borders being Palestinians,
:har::har::har::har::har::har::har:
Israelis is the term for citizens of Israel

[Slyguy3129]

No no there isn't. Not in this case. Tribe if your little Palestinian friends want to go around killing and hiding behind women and children, I'll be honest I don't give a flying **** what their little sob story is. All that tells me is they are savages. I don't much care for people who try to kill women and children and I sure as hell don't care for the liberal who wants to take their side. To me you are just as bad as they are, and they are lower than child rapist.

[MH]

Oh but Sky is trying to say they are connected:rotfl2:



Yes it is connected.
You may know or not but some hammas political prisoners were released from Egyptian prisons.
That is besides those that run away.
The grip on weapon smuggling is not what it used to be as well.

[Rockstar]

Hamas shelling Israel the recent bus bombings I think isn't some side show. But is in part political statements and a rally cry for the rebellions going on in the other middle east countries. Something they can come to together and focus on which is to eventually fulfill their desire to drive Israel into the sea.

[Tribesman]

Tribe if your little Palestinian friends
what friends?

I don't much care for people who try to kill women and children and I sure as hell don't care for the liberal who wants to take their side.
So you don't stand with the "might is right" crowd?

To me you are just as bad as they are, and they are lower than child rapist.
To me you are clearly someone who doesn't really think, so what you think you think is irrelevant on so many levels its a joke.


Yes it is connected.

Only on the periphery, the Hamas involvement appears more connected to the arms siezure, they made one big show and are leaving it to the bit players.
You may know or not but some hammas political prisoners were released from Egyptian prisons.
That is besides those that run away.

And?????
The grip on weapon smuggling is not what it used to be as well.
The grip on arms smuggling has never been anything like even remotely secure.

MH about the atrocity in Jerusalem, does this particular attack on the bus station strike you as somewhat unusual?

[Gerald]

Two rockets have been fired from the Gaza Strip into Israel, a day after Israeli air strikes on the Hamas-controlled territory.

One rocket exploded south of the port city of Ashdod and the other landed north of it, Israeli military officials said.

There have been no reports of casualties.

The rocket attacks come amid growing cross-border tensions between Israel and the Gaza Strip.

Israeli officials said the two Grad rockets fired on Thursday landed to the south and north of Ashdod. Israeli media said one of the blasts had been heard in Yavneh, about 25km (15 miles) south of Tel Aviv.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12851175

Note: Update Record,24 March 2011 Last updated at 15:46 GMT

[MH]

[QUOTE=Tribesman;1626886MH about the atrocity in Jerusalem, does this particular attack on the bus station strike you as somewhat unusual?[/QUOTE]

WoW Tribesman in what way?
Pleas tell me what you think.....maybe what one cant see from here YOU see from there...it happens sometimes.
Just don't tell me the Zionist right wing did it .

[Tribesman]

WoW Tribesman in what way?
Pleas tell me what you think.....maybe what one cant see from here YOU see from there...it happens sometimes.


It doesn't follow the usual patterns.
Small bag bomb, no praise be the martyrs sh!te, no death to zionists crap, no claims of responsibility at all.
The location would suggest its outa the west bank or a domestic, but who? It just doesn't fit with the usual unusual schemes.

Just don't tell me the Zionist right wing did it .
A price tag attack? No I don't think so, they are up in arms again but it would be more likely shooting a bus full of arabs rather than blowing up a jerusalem bus station

[MH]

It doesn't follow the usual patterns.
Small bag bomb, no praise be the martyrs sh!te, no death to zionists crap, no claims of responsibility at all.
The location would suggest its outa the west bank or a domestic, but who? It just doesn't fit with the usual unusual schemes.


Gaza is cosed.
Life in PA isn't bad.
PA and IDF don't let hamas mess around too much in West Bank.
Possibly it was done by or with collaboration of an Israeli Palestinian...it happens sometimes.

[Tribesman]

PA and IDF don't let hamas mess around too much in West Bank.

Thats why it doesn't seem like it could be them, but with all the other factors it doesn't fit any of the other main groups really either. A new splinter perhaps(as though there ain't enough of them already) or a lone nut.
Also the Itamar murders, thats seems unusual also, a little bit like an old Hez incident but not very much.

[August]

Or it could be an agent provocateur.

[MH]

Thats why it doesn't seem like it could be them, but with all the other factors it doesn't fit any of the other main groups really either. A new splinter perhaps(as though there ain't enough of them already) or a lone nut.
Also the Itamar murders, thats seems unusual also, a little bit like an old Hez incident but not very much.

Maybe...
Don't try to link this to bombing from Gaza tho.
Hamas can play dumb and blame Islamic Jihad or whom ever for one or few shootings but this is far beyond that.
Anyways if they cant control or dont want to control whats going on it doesn't matter anyway.
It needs to be stopped.
BW
Don't even think that giving them political stage can pacify them.

[Tribesman]

Maybe...
Don't try to link this to bombing from Gaza tho.

No definately, its different.

Hamas can play dumb and blame Islamic Jihad or whom ever for one or few shootings but this is far beyond that.

Its one of the occasions where they have claimed their launches and al-quds have claimed theirs.
Anyways if they cant control or dont want to control whats going on it doesn't matter anyway.
It needs to be stopped.

But how?
bombing hasn't worked, assasinations havn't worked, occupation hasn't, blockades, embargoes .....

Don't even think that giving them political stage can pacify them.
The same has been said about hundreds of groups that eventually got on the stage and became quiet.

[MH]

No definately, its different.


Its one of the occasions where they have claimed their launches and al-quds have claimed theirs.

But how?
bombing hasn't worked, assasinations havn't worked, occupation hasn't, blockades, embargoes .....


The same has been said about hundreds of groups that eventually got on the stage and became quiet.

why hammas should be one of those groups when its getting what it needs by doing what its doing.
Israel is now by UN definition a war criminals coutry that dosnt have right to defend itself.
Same UN that had Quadafi in Human Rights Concul with some other exotic coutries.

[Tribesman]

Oh dear, had a bad day MH?
You were doing so well.
But as usual.....
Israel is now by UN definition a war criminals coutry that dosnt have right to defend itself.

....back into bunker mentality.
Write again when you rejoin reality.

[MH]

You got emotional again.
No faces this time.
That improvment.
Its you that need to catch with reality.
No its me.......
Its you........
Me.........
LOL
internet is great.

[Tribesman]

Thats better.
The UN says Israel does war crimes when Israel war crimes just as it does when others do them.
War crimes are defined so a country or non state actor fits that definition when it fits the definition, there is nothing you can do about that apart from re defining war crimes or stopping doing what is already defined as war crimes.
No one has said Israel isn't allowed to defend itself.
Actually on defence did you read this "liberal" piece this morning.....
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/what-about-the-iron-dome-1.351460
Do you think the main issue there is really cost?
After all extensive 24 coverage with a relatively costly system to counter an ineffective(apart from propoganda value) inaccurate, very cheap but wealthily funded throwaway threat.

[MH]

Thats better.
.

Wow ......im glad you came to your sences:haha:


The UN says Israel does war crimes when Israel war crimes just as it does when others do them.
War crimes are defined so a country or non state actor fits that definition when it fits the definition, there is nothing you can do about that apart from re defining war crimes or stopping doing what is already defined as war crimes.
.
Thats bull and you know it.
I wonder if you really belive in this....


No one has said Israel isn't allowed to defend itself.
.
Thank you.....


Actually on defence did you read this "liberal" piece this morning.....
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/what-about-the-iron-dome-1.351460
Do you think the main issue there is really cost?
After all extensive 24 coverage with a relatively costly system to counter an ineffective(apart from propoganda value) inaccurate, very cheap but wealthily funded throwaway threat.
Do you now for really how unefective those Grad rockets are?
And why?
How they are deployed and why?
Do you know how effective they are when they hit on mark?
Would you like to come here and test it yourself.

The haaretz and Iron Dome article is a mix of speculation mixed with SF-reread it.
But even in anything in it is true it doesn't really change anything...dos it?
If you bases your opinion on this and articles by Gideon Levi i understand where you come from.

From my point of view IDFs strategy should never be forcing Israeli citizens to live under iron dome- as primary mean of defending Israel.
It would make living here meaningless.
IDF needs to courter terrorism actively.
Tell me more how Grad rockets are ineffective and its all just Israeli propaganda.

Deploing vulcans in Beeer Sheva you got to be kiddin me.....

[MH]

ooops double post

[Gerald]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12837951

[Tribesman]

Thats bull and you know it.

No, thats true and you simply don't like the fact.
Oh dear you appear to have lost it again.
Been through it all before with you....

If you bases your opinion on this and articles by Gideon Levi i understand where you come from.


It was you who didn't even know the IDF has its own news site and publishes its own reports, its you who doesn't read the releases from the Knesset and its yo who seems completely ignorant of any settler media sources.
In short it is you who demonstrates again and again that your opinions are based on very little information at all and go into hysterics anytime you don't like what you hear.

Tell me more how Grad rockets are ineffective and its all just Israeli propaganda.


see how your bunker mentality paranoia affects you reading abilities:yep:

Isn't it funny how I ask if you have read article and ask about a view not really dealt with in that article and you just go off on a rant.

[MH]

In short it is you who demonstrates again and again that your opinions are based on very little information at all and go into hysterics anytime you don't like what you hear.
.
Still its better that yours....:woot:
(kido style answer)




see how your bunker mentality paranoia affects you reading abilities:yep:
.
This always works on internet.:up:

Isn't it funny how I ask if you have read article and ask about a view not really dealt with in that article and you just go off on a rant.

Did you spot some UFOs while reading in between lines.
You base your knowlage of Israeli mentality and world view on reading haaretz(seems you like Gidon Levi a lot-attention whore drama queen) and settlers sites.
Oh well....you read on IDF site-excellent.
Haaretz is generally good news site by the way.

Reread all the crap you wrote.
re-think it and you will understand that what you propose can turn Israel into a ****ing bunker for its citizens.
I consider my self as very liberal person but far from this left activist crap that is getting more and more popular .
You think of your self so sophisticated that you cant see when you get used and ****ed over.
As some Palestinian said-European pubic is like a bunch of sheeps.

Thats end of discussion or rant for me...

[Tribesman]

re-think it and you will understand that what you propose can turn Israel into a ****ing bunker for its citizens.

And you somehow think the current pattern isn't doing exactly that already???????

Haaretz is generally good news site by the way.

I asked about the article as you have said you read that paper.

seems you like Gidon Levi a lot-attention whore drama queen
When have I mentioned Levi or anything he has written before????
The only thing of real value from his articles is the response they elicit, there are some really crazy bigots who froth at the mouth at the merest thought of his name which is funny to watch.

I consider my self as very liberal person but far from this left activist crap that is getting more and more popular .

You will get it one day, more and more Israelis are getting it, retreading the same old path going nowhere is unsustainable and the longer you walk it the weaker you are getting.

You think of your self so sophisticated that you cant see when you get used and ****ed over.

Yet you are doing yourself over quite willingly.

[Slyguy3129]

I gotta give Tribe credit.

If there was an award for person who argues the most about something he doesn't understand against someone who actually lives there? He would win unanimously and ever year.

I am so tempted to see what he has written, but I rather not. Its more fun and educational to listen to the guy that lives with it on a day to day bases.

[Tribesman]

If there was an award for person who argues the most about something he doesn't understand against someone who actually lives there?
Hey what happened with the **** you PM you sent?
I thought you wasn't gonna play anymore:woot:
It is funny though, considering what you just wrote here as you couldn't even tell the difference between an entrance exam and a graduation in your own country.
A prime example of "local" knowledge eh:know:

I am so tempted to see what he has written, but I rather not. Its more fun and educational to listen to the guy that lives with it on a day to day bases.
Educational:rotfl2:
Remind me again about the process for entering a police academy.:har:

[Gerald]

In a smoke-filled and cardamom coffee-infused cafe in Gaza City all the talk is of this week's violence.

"Why is Palestinian blood cheaper than Israeli blood?" asks Wael Abu Awema, a 40-year-old father of five.

There have been Israeli attacks on Gaza every day this week. At least 10 Palestinians have been killed, including at least four civilians, two of them children. More than 30 Palestinians have been injured.

"Of course we are worried. My kids are wetting themselves at night when they hear the Israeli air strikes," says Mr Abu Awema.

Note: Update Record,http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12854225

[MH]

In a smoke-filled and cardamom coffee-infused cafe in Gaza City all the talk is of this week's violence.

"Why is Palestinian blood cheaper than Israeli blood?" asks Wael Abu Awema, a 40-year-old father of five.

There have been Israeli attacks on Gaza every day this week. At least 10 Palestinians have been killed, including at least four civilians, two of them children. More than 30 Palestinians have been injured.

"Of course we are worried. My kids are wetting themselves at night when they hear the Israeli air strikes," says Mr Abu Awema.

Note: Update Record,http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12854225

He should ask Hammas leaders why Palestinian blood is cheaper.
I bet he wont do it....at list not in front of foreign reporter.
He should ask why there are no bombings in West Bank.


Qassam strikes near southern Israel home

No casualties were reported but considerable damage was caused to the home; the attack is the latest in a week-long wave of escalation in the conflict with the Hamas-ruled Gaza Strip.







A rocket landed and exploded right outside a family home in a community located in the western Negev region overnight on Friday. No casualties were reported as a result of the rocket, but the family home suffered considerable damage.
No government-mandated specially-reinforced rooms which help protect a home's residents from rocket attacks have yet been built in the community in which the rocket fell. A second rocket fell in an open field nearby, causing no damage to people or property.
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.351901.1301133615!/image/1291541729.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_295/1291541729.jpg Home damaged by Qassam rocket in western Negev community, March 26, 2011.
Photo by: Eliyahu Hershkovitz
Cross-border tensions between Israel and Gaza have been escalating recently, the latest being two Grad rockets and a Qassam fired at southern Israel from Gaza on Thursday. One of the rockets struck north of Ashdod and could be heard in Yavneh, some 25 kilometers from Tel Aviv.
The rocket attacks came hours after Defense Minister Ehud Barak and IDF Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz announced the activation of the Iron Dome defense system in the south of the country. Barak said he approved the deployment of the system as an operational experiment and the IDF has said it will be operational in a few days.
The Iron Dome defense system is a main component of Israel's defense against the homemade and imported rockets fired by Palestinian militants in the Gaza Strip, as well as the longer range rockets in the hands of Hezbollah guerrillas on Israel's border with Lebanon.
GOC Southern Command Maj. Gen. Tal Russo arrived at the site of the blast and said, "There is anarchy in Gaza, inside Hamas and inside the other [militant] organizations. No group exerts control there. It's difficult for Hamas to turn back the clock."
Asked if the IDF would launch a large 'Operation Cast Lead 2' type of military operation in Gaza in response, Russo said that it is not dependent upon Israel but upon the other side. "We are trying to afford citizens of the south normal lives, and these aren't exactly normal lives," he said. "We will bring these citizens peace and quiet. That is our aim."
Russo added, "The situation has eroded since Cast Lead. The other side is starting to get forgetful. I hope that they get a hold of themselves."
Defense Minister Barak said Thursday that Israel considers Hamas responsible for any rocket and mortar attacks originating from Gaza.
In a joint press conference with U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates, Barak said that because Hamas is in power in Gaza, they are responsible for the actions of Islamic Jihad and other factions in the Strip, saying Hamas must control these groups.

[MH]

Remind me again about the process for entering a police academy.:har:

One thing i learned in life is that usally people who are less educated have better ability than the ones that are educated about their intelligence.
Keep your childish remarks to yourself.

[Gerald]

He should ask Hammas leaders why Palestinian blood is cheaper.
I bet he wont do it....at list not in front of foreign reporter.
He should ask why there are no bombings in West Bank. Hamas will not be able to control these groups, or they use them as tools in a protracted conflict with no "end"

[Tribesman]

Keep your childish remarks to yourself.
Hey when someone tells me to **** myself and not post in any topic he writes in I consider it a gilt edged invitation when he jumps up in a topic to post about me.
As for what he tries to raise, I have said before your local involvement is what gives you the lack of clarity on the topic, just like those who couldn't get past the for us or against us nonsense over Iraq or those who do the my country right or wrong lunacy.

BTW why are you posting an article from that liberal rag, I hope you are not getting your views from Gideon or Bradley;)

He should ask Hammas leaders why Palestinian blood is cheaper.

Propoganda:up:
Understand yet? your bunker view made you get it backwards earlier.

Which of course leads back to another thing you wrote.
The response was....
"Yet you are doing yourself over quite willingly."
Understand? you are feeding the machine and at every opertunity are calling for more food for the machine.

[MH]

The response was....
"Yet you are doing yourself over quite willingly."
Understand? you are feeding the machine and at every opertunity are calling for more food for the machine.
Every body is feeding the machine.
The key still is the UN which from Israeli point of view feeds the machine and gives political ammo to hamas and Israeli dick wavers.
UN can stay politically correct when it comes to 8 years of bombing Israeli southern towns then scream bloody murder when something is done about it.
Which country in Europe would allow for such a thing to happen without taking action?
If UN wants to break the chain it has to be done by backing aggressive response of IDF.
That will defuse hammas and its tactics of war of political attrition and force to re-thing strategy.
Israelis voting public on another hand will be more wiling to take deceive risks.

From Israeli point of view(which is very sensitive to international opinion)UN is spineless hypocritical anti Israeli organization that can not be trusted and counted upon as far as nothing.
Definitely not a partner in taking historical decisions.

[Tribesman]

UN can stay politically correct when it comes to 8 years of bombing Israeli southern towns then scream bloody murder when something is done about it.

Errrrrr....in case it missed you, the UN condemns those attacks on soiuthern towns just like it condemns those on the northern front, you might also have missed that Hamas and Islamic Jihad ain't members and ain't signed up to legal stuff, they are criminals.


If UN wants to break the chain it has to be done by backing aggressive response of IDF.

Aggressive or proportional? Aggresive or effective? Agggressive or legal?
BTW if you want UN backing it might help if they complied with UN resolutions and followed the UN charter and stayed within international laws that your government agreed are law

That will defuse hammas and its tactics of war of political attrition and force to re-thing strategy.

Really? and it has worked where exactly?
There are no shortages of examples where such attempts have been made, there is however a distict lack of examples where the desired outcome was achieved.

From Israeli point of view(which is very sensitive to international opinion)UN is spineless hypocritical anti Israeli organization that can not be trusted and counted upon as far as nothing.
Definitely not a partner in taking historical decisions.
It is as good as its membership, if you don't like it then leave.
What was your view when the pro zionist Jewish fellow got appointed to that UN commision?
Wasn't it funny how people were suddenly screaming that he was a rabid anti-semite who hates jews and Israel

[MH]

Aggressive or proportional? Aggresive or effective? Agggressive or legal?
BTW if you want UN backing it might help if they complied with UN resolutions and followed the UN charter and stayed within international laws that your government agreed are law


That's the whole point.You cant have it all the ways when you fight dirty war.
As past examples have proven.........
Its idealistic ideology and belief in practical ability of applying international law(very often selective) against ugly reality.
I don't think we can agree on anything here.

[Tribesman]

That's the whole point.You cant have it all the ways when you fight dirty war.

Which means you lose your position of complaining about accusations of war crimes.:yeah:

See you cannot complain when you are doing it, just like you cannot claim to be following international law when you are not.

That is the main problem with the position you regularly take, you want it both ways.
It is how you cut your own arguement from under you nearly every time.
You end up denying the things you admit and justifying the things you condemn.

I don't think we can agree on anything here.
We both agree that Hamas are not nice at all, that they are doing terrorist actions which are war crimes and that they don't really give a **** about the population apart from as a propoganda tool.

[MH]

Which means you lose your position of complaining about accusations of war crimes.:yeah:

See you cannot complain when you are doing it, just like you cannot claim to be following international law when you are not.

That is the main problem with the position you regularly take, you want it both ways.
It is how you cut your own arguement from under you nearly every time.
You end up denying the things you admit and justifying the things you condemn.


We both agree that Hamas are not nice at all, that they are doing terrorist actions which are war crimes and that they don't really give a **** about the population apart from as a propoganda tool.

In "Cast Lead" houses around IAF targets were warned by phone calls before an attack.
Whole blocks where warned about possible idf entrance and civilians encouraged to leave.
IDF came out of this as war criminal army:damn:

International law is not realistic it can not be applied in combat.
That is unless we return to Red Coat style warfare.
It definietly cant not work agains terrorist in urban territory who dont care about their own civilians.
For hamas every kid that gets killed is a shahid in holly war.

[Tribesman]

In "Cast Lead" houses around IAF targets were warned by phone calls before an attack.
Whole blocks where warned about possible idf entrance and civilians encouraged to leave.

Leave????
To where exactly.
BTW wasn't the phone network taken out right at the beginning, kinda hard to phone houses when you have knocked out the phone system isn't it.

IDF came out of this as war criminal army
That is the propoganda value of cheap throwaway rockets, and unfortunately the IDF/Knesset falls for it every time.


International law is not realistic it can not be applied in combat.

Really????? you had better dig up Jurgen Stroop and tell him it was all a mistake.

It definietly cant not work agains terrorist in urban territory who dont care about their own civilians.

That is where it has to work as otherwise you are doing exactly what the terrorists want you to do.

[MH]

Leave????
To where exactly.
BTW wasn't the phone network taken out right at the beginning, kinda hard to phone houses when you have knocked out the phone system isn't it..
Use ur imagination a bit.
1 or more Cell phone per person its a must even in Gaza.



As for the rest we been there already.
IDF must defend its citizens.
Thats the basic "problem" and difference between Israel and hamas.
Don't tell me about this CHEAP rockets again.
Palestinians in Gaza should be lucky that we don't fire back with cheap artillery.You..know... proportional response.:D

[Skybird]

You can get EVERYTHING in Gaza. From caviar to hightech and consumer electronics. You just need to have the money. But available it all is, legally. Not even mentioning the smuggler's items, and black market.

Europeans are very easy to go into am ok mode when Palestinians get killed - while expecting that when Israelis/Jewish blood bgets shed by an assassin, Israel should just sit still and do nothing. After all those many centuries, to Europe the blood of Jews still is so much cheaper than that of others - especially that of Islamic bodies. Those voices claiming that antisemitism ranks high in the EU, are absolutely right in my opinion.

The Palestinians have had so many opportunity to get a deal, and their own territories. Their capability to ruin them all and let them all pass by, is legendary.

Anmd those arguing in thos forum that it is injust that Israel exists since 1947, ignore just one thing, and again it is an injustice thex accept so easily becasue once again it is at the cost of Jews: since 1947, two generations have been born and raised in I(srael, and to some parts also died again - for Israel. Destroying the state of Israel now, more than 6 decades after it was founded, is only possible at the cost of committing anjothe rgreat injuzstice once again, that is at least equal to that of 1947. Those being born after Israel was founded, are totallyx innocent rehgarding the fact that it exists. But I never have heared anybody who is saying that Israel is an injust circumstance and must seize to exist, considering this implication. After all, it would be at the costs of some worthless Jews again.

That kind of worthless Jews that needed just a couple of years to turn a dry, desolate desert into a somewhat blossoming garden and agricultural hotspot - where generations of Palestinians before for centuries proved to be unable to rewact in any different way to the environment than with fatalism, inaction and passivity. Judging it by their deeds, cleverness and poetntial, the Jews deserve the place much more than the Palestinians. Wiothout the Israelis being there, the mean income per head would be lower amongst Palestinians! That is a statistical fact. They also would be much worse off in food production, sweet water production and participation in the benefits of hightech assessoires and access tmodern health care.

So certain people in here: stop telling us how just it is when you demand nothing else but another Endlösung to the Jewish question - by demanding Israel to stop to exist, or getting taken over by Palestinians. More than 20% of the people of Israel already are Palestinians, which we learn from the current Arab unrest already may be a danegrously high share in case of national conflict and crisis. If somebody think there can be a Jewish state called Israel anymore with an unregulatede right of Palestinians to move into it, then you are totally disconnected from reality.

[Tribesman]

Use ur imagination a bit.
1 or more Cell phone per person its a must even in Gaza.


So in your imagination the IDF decided to collect all the cell phone records and match the numbers to addresses and then ring them up:rotfl2:
In your imagination were the IDF able to sort all the records so that they didn't ring any cell phone of a terrorist or possible terrorist or someone who might know a terrorist or be standing next to a terrorist and having to shout really loud due to bad reception and an F-15 flying overhead and make sure they didn't ring them by mistake.

You really are crawling down the rabbit hole with that attempt to stand by what you wrote.

Nice to see Skybird popping by though, he managed quite a good rant there without spewing his usual lines from uncle adolfs era, but he still couldn't help tilting at windmills.

[MH]

So in your imagination the IDF decided to collect all the cell phone records and match the numbers to addresses and then ring them up:rotfl2:
In your imagination were the IDF able to sort all the records so that they didn't ring any cell phone of a terrorist or possible terrorist or someone who might know a terrorist or be standing next to a terrorist and having to shout really loud due to bad reception and an F-15 flying overhead and make sure they didn't ring them by mistake.

.

Ridiculous isnt it?
You hit a wall with that.

Collecting phone numbers?
IDF looked them all up in yellow pages.

[Tribesman]

Collecting phone numbers?
IDF looked them all up in yellow pages.
Thats why they failed, the Golden pages is commercial not domestic and the domestic wouldn't have ads including cells as well as land line:yeah:
You really ought to get onto military intelligence and explain their mistake

[MH]

Thats why they failed, the Golden pages is commercial not domestic and the domestic wouldn't have ads including cells as well as land line:yeah:
You really ought to get onto military intelligence and explain their mistake

:hmmm:

[Gerald]

An Israeli air strike has killed two militants in the northern Gaza Strip, Israeli and Palestinian officials say.

The Israeli military said its strike targeted militants attempting to fire rockets into Israel.

Palestinians said that both victims were members of the Islamic Jihad group. Another militant was injured.

The air strike comes a day after militant groups in Hamas-run Gaza said they would halt rocket attacks on Israel if the Israelis reciprocated.

In a separate development, Israel says its new anti-rocket defence system is due to become operational later on Sunday.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12873532

Note: Update Record, 27 March 2011 Last updated at 09:11 GMT

[Gerald]

Last night, rejecting criticism of his actions in Libya, President Obama outlined a standard for civilized multilateralism: “Sometimes, the course of history poses challenges that threaten our common humanity and common security,” he said. “Real leadership creates the conditions and coalitions for others to step up as well; to work with allies and partners ... to see that the principles of justice and human dignity are upheld by all.” If you should act, act where you can, and act together.

Obama gained a mandate from the U.N. Security Council, working with the European Union to rally the Arab League. He enlisted support from leaders of the Group of 20 in the process. His leadership, in short, did not just turn the tide against one Arab tyranny, but produced a model of statecraft for the region as a whole.

This model now has an even more important task. Obama should, and can, lead the Quartet (the U.S., U.N., E.U. and Russia) in presenting a new blueprint for Israeli-Palestinian peace. Whatever happens in Libya, America will never be seen as a champion of Arab democracy if it continues to appear cavalier about the occupation of the Palestinians.

The president made clear in his Cairo speech that Palestinian statehood is not simply an internal Israeli affair, nor is Israeli security the responsibility of the Israeli military alone. He knows that the chances of success in any bilateral talks between Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas are nil. He also knows what the product of good-faith negotiations must be.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/30/opinion/30iht-edavishai30.html?ref=israel

Note: Update Record, 29 March 2011

[Gerald]

The Palestinian Islamist group, Hamas, has warned Israel of "consequences" after an air strike in Gaza killed three members of its military wing.

The Izz al-Din Qassam Brigades militants were killed near the southern town of Khan Younis, a statement said.

Medics and witnesses said the men had been travelling in a car at the time, and that one person was also injured.

An Israeli military spokeswoman said it was a pre-emptive strike against militants planning to kidnap Israelis.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-12944805

Note: Update Record,2 April 2011 Last updated at 03:29 GMT

[MH]

UN finely trys to spin itself out of the bul**** report....
Very intresting.




Goldstone: Claims of Israel's Gaza war crimes should be reconsidered

Writing in a Washington Post column, former head of the Gaza war fact-finding commission slams anti-Israel UN bias, says Jerusalem went to 'significant' lengths to investigate itself.

By Haaretz Service Tags: Israel news (http://www.haaretz.com/meta/Tag/Israel%20news) Gaza war (http://www.haaretz.com/meta/Tag/Gaza%20war) Hamas (http://www.haaretz.com/meta/Tag/Hamas)





Former jurist Richard Goldstone said that if Israel had cooperated with his United Nations fact-finding commission into the events of Operation Cast Lead, the charges mounted against Israel in the Goldstone Report, including those of alleged war crimes and the intentional targeting of civilians, would have changed.
Writing in a Washington Post column published on Friday, Goldstone noted Israeli efforts to investigate wrongdoings by soldiers and commanders during the Gaza war, saying that war crime allegations against Israel would have been influenced by the evidence provided by such probes.
http://www.haaretz.com/polopoly_fs/1.288585.1273103286!/image/87406657.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_295/87406657.jpg Richard Goldstone during a session of the Human Rights Council in Geneva, Switzerland, Sept. 29, 2009.
Photo by: AP
"We know a lot more today about what happened in the Gaza war of 2008-09 than we did when I chaired the fact-finding mission appointed by the UN Human Rights Council that produced what has come to be known as the Goldstone Report," Goldstone wrote, adding: "If I had known then what I know now, the Goldstone Report would have been a different document."
The former South African jurist said that while "Israeli evidence that has emerged since publication of our report doesn’t negate the tragic loss of civilian life, I regret that our fact-finding mission did not have such evidence explaining the circumstances in which we said civilians in Gaza were targeted, because it probably would have influenced our findings about intentionality and war crimes."
While Israel has shown to probe itself "to a significant degree" over Gaza war actions, Goldstone wrote, Hamas, who has been in control of the coastal enclave since 2007, "has done nothing."
The former jurist also criticizes the UN Human Rights Council's anti-Israel bias, saying that he had hoped that the report could "begin a new era of evenhandedness at the UN Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted."
"Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations," Goldstone added, saying that his report "found evidence of potential war crimes and 'possibly crimes against humanity' by both Israel and Hamas. That the crimes allegedly committed by Hamas were intentional goes without saying — its rockets were purposefully and indiscriminately aimed at civilian targets."
"That comparatively few Israelis have been killed by the unlawful rocket and mortar attacks from Gaza in no way minimizes the criminality. The UN Human Rights Council should condemn these heinous acts in the strongest terms," Goldstone said.
Goldstone also urged the UN's rights body to condemn a recent stabbing attack at the West Bank settlement of Itamar, saying that "the Human Rights Council should condemn the inexcusable and cold-blooded recent slaughter of a young Israeli couple and three of their small children in their beds."
"Simply put, the laws of armed conflict apply no less to non-state actors such as Hamas than they do to national armies," Goldstone concluded in his Washington Post column, saying that "ensuring that non-state actors respect these principles, and are investigated when they fail to do so, is one of the most significant challenges facing the law of armed conflict."
"Only if all parties to armed conflicts are held to these standards will we be able to protect civilians who, through no choice of their own, are caught up in war," he added

[Tribesman]

UN finely trys to spin itself out of the bul**** report....

Really?

if Israel had cooperated with his United Nations fact-finding commission into the events of Operation Cast Lead, the charges mounted against Israel in the Goldstone Report, including those of alleged war crimes and the intentional targeting of civilians, would have changed.

no spin there, failure to cooperate and failure to provide evidencve diminishes your input and leaves out your chance to have a voice in a report.
It really is so simple.
If you don't partake in a process you look very silly complaining that your view was not represented.

[Penguin]

no spin there, failure to cooperate and failure to provide evidencve diminishes your input and leaves out your chance to have a voice in a report.
It really is so simple.
If you don't partake in a process you look very silly complaining that your view was not represented.

Well it doesn't sound like the smartest idea, but you have to consider the following:
- a mistrust against the UN, I think MH's opinion about it is representative for the Israeli citizens
- military reasons to keep certain informations classified
- like any military of the world, the IDF has their amount of bureaucracy. It took the Tzahal several weeks to give away all the infos after the Ship to Gaza incident, and this was a small event in comparision to the Operation Cast Lead.

I wonder how many people, who took the report as a proof of war crimes, will now revise their opinions. My bet is that the numbers will be small.
This conflict seems to attract more ideological people than people who want to see it rational.

[Bilge_Rat]

At least he admits what every one else knew, the UN investigation was just a politically motivated hatchet job:

The purpose of the Goldstone Report was never to prove a foregone conclusion against Israel. I insisted on changing the original mandate adopted by the Human Rights Council, which was skewed against Israel. I have always been clear that Israel, like any other sovereign nation, has the right and obligation to defend itself and its citizens against attacks from abroad and within. Something that has not been recognized often enough is the fact that our report marked the first time illegal acts of terrorism from Hamas were being investigated and condemned by the United Nations. I had hoped that our inquiry into all aspects of the Gaza conflict would begin a new era of evenhandedness at the U.N. Human Rights Council, whose history of bias against Israel cannot be doubted.



http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/reconsidering-the-goldstone-report-on-israel-and-war-crimes/2011/04/01/AFg111JC_story.html

[Gerald]

Israel says it is willing to observe a ceasefire after days of military exchanges in Gaza, if Palestinian militants there end rocket attacks.

Israeli Defence Minister Ehud Barak said on Sunday: "If they stop firing on our communities, we will stop firing."

A spokesman for Hamas, which governs Gaza, said militants had no interest in escalation and calm could be restored.

At least 18 people have died in Israeli air strikes, which it says have been in response to militant rocket fire.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13027915

Note: 10 April 2011 Last updated at 08:27 GMT

[Jimbuna]

Can't see a truce lasting long if past events are anything to go by.

[Gerald]

Peace is not something that fits these players, and I see no one like that in sight .. very long time, the whole region is a powder keg

[Jimbuna]

Honest!! :o




:DL

[Gerald]

Honest!! :o




:DL Thank you Jim!

[Jimbuna]

Thank you Jim!

Here's me thinking it was all peaceful and tranquil over there for the past few decades :DL

[Gerald]

Here's me thinking it was all peaceful and tranquil over there for the past few decades :DL Yes ...I now sorry

[Jimbuna]

Yes ...I now sorry

Nowt to be sorry for mate...just pullin ya leg :03:

[Gerald]

LONDON (AFP) - Three of the authors of a United Nations report which criticised Israel over its 2008-2009 offensive on Gaza on Thursday rejected calls to retract the report.

They said in a statement to The Guardian newspaper in Britain that they found it "necessary to dispel any impression that subsequent developments have rendered any part of the mission's report unsubstantiated.

"Aspersions cast on the findings of the report... cannot be left unchallenged," wrote Pakistani human rights lawyer Hina Jilani, Christine Chinvin, a professor of international law at the London School of Economics and former Irish peacekeeper Desmond Travers.

"We concur in our view that there is no justification for any demand or expectation for reconsideration of the report as nothing of substance has appeared that would in anyway change the context, findings or conclusions of that report with respect to any of the parties to the Gaza conflict," they added.

Those who have made such calls, they say, "misrepresented facts in an attempt to delegitimise the findings and cast doubts on its credibility."

http://www.islamtribune.com/2011/04/14/authors-reject-calls-to-retract-goldstone-report-on-gaza.html

Note: Update Record, April 14, 2011

[MH]

"Aspersions cast on the findings of the report... cannot be left unchallenged," wrote Pakistani human rights lawyer Hina Jilani, Christine Chinvin, a professor of international law at the London School of Economics and former Irish peacekeeper Desmond Travers.


The same school that received Qaddafi's son as honorable member and his father as honorable money donor.
God save the queen.

[Jimbuna]

The same school that received Qaddafi's son as honorable member and his father as honorable money donor.
God save the queen.


Rgr that :yep: