I got OWNED last night. Some insights, opinions and questions.

[vonCrandall]

A bit of a long read, but this happened last night in July 1940 and I am curious/confused/shaking my head at a few things.

First 'real' destroyer encounter for me in SH5. I've played SH3 alot and have had countless run ins with them there, but this was the first SH5 destroyer encounter where the DD didn't give up after a few mins and just went away.

We were heading to the patrol zone and while in transit somewhere off the southern shore of Ireland, I get a convoy report. I make the required calculations and can tell right away that we will be able to intercept. The only reservation I had in my mind was that the weather was absolutely beautiful with almost no clouds in the sky, no chop, no wind and visibility for miles - figuring we'd have a look at the convoy and go from there, I plot our intercept course and head off.

A few hours later we find the convoy with a hydrophone check and they seem to be slightly ahead of where I thought they would be. Apparently I estimated them to have a slower travel speed which has now eaten up my extra time to creep into optimal position ahead of their current path.

The convoy consists of 12 merchants and 1 lone destroyer riding shotgun in front of them all. Given this fact, I decide to engage them now rather than shadow them as they were traveling fairly fast and the lone destroyer shouldn't be too much of an issue as I would let a few torpedo's loose, go down to reload and be ready to fire again by the time he lost interest.

Here is where I was dead wrong.

I'm in position and am still undetected. Due to the angle of the convoy and how it's traveling, I decide to only engage 2 of the ships as it seems in my firing solutions that I had a high possibility of having the closest 2 ships screen the two beyond them and we could have ended up wasting 2 torpedo's. Fire 1. Fire 3.

Now for reference sake, I play on 87% realism but I had a mini cheat going in that I have the detection circles for surface detection, sonar and hydrophones on for my minimap as I am trying to gauge/learn them.

As the 2 torpedo's are heading to their targets, I am sitting, totally undetected at 14m with the attack periscope up and at All Stop. The torpedo's impact within seconds of each other and a muffled cheer could be heard in the control room. I pan the periscope over to see how the lone destroyer reacts to this; at this point he is almost 2k away from me.

First nothing. He just keeps chugging along, and then within 15-20 seconds, he makes a hard left and straightens out at what likes like DIRECTLY at me. First question: I did fire 2 of the steam torpedo's because of the speed and distance of the convoy; can a destroyer, that is not THAT far off the waterline see a small steam trail in the water from 2km away?? Is this what made him turn - he didn't have a 'good idea' where I was, he was literally aimed directly at me.

The sounding to the floor was 145m. Ahead 1/3, turn 90 degrees to starboard and go down to 100m. Silent running.

At this point I am watching the yellow detection circle. As the destroyer (Class A) is starting to do random circles in the area and I start hearing distant depth charge explosions. Question 2: Why does NOONE in my crew tell me when there are depth charges in the friggen water?

My tactic to get away is fairly simple. I pick a general direction I want to head to, in this case is was between North and East. I turn my rudder left or right at times, but keep within 00 and 090. Whenever the DD is close and there are depth charge explosions, I go flank ahead, I turn my rudder (keeping within N and E for this example) and go down another 10-20m. Whenever I think the last depth charge just went off, I go back to all slow and rudder amidships. Question 3: How long can the destroyer not 'hear' me after a depth charge goes off?

An hour passes. No damage and he barely, if at all, even got close. The problem is, he won't go away. I am almost on the bottom of the seafloor at this point. Anytime he drifts off and I have a good size distance gap between us, his sonar begins searching and almost always finds me even thought I am at an almost 180 degree slim profile and 3m from the ocean floor. Question 4: How do you get away from the sonar? Did I just have bad luck and 140m wasn't deep enough?

I cannot for the life of me evade this destroyer. After 2 hours I start with other tricks; make ALOT of noise and have him come to depth charge me only to pull a 180 and go totally silent in the other direction, sit on the floor at All Stop, try going multiple directions after being depth charged - nothing works. Question 5: If I am in the yellow detection circle on the minimap, does this mean I have a good chance of being detected, or that I WILL 100% be detected? This is what I am very curious about because he kept me in the yellow circle quite often. But then when I got out (or it shrank when his screws were facing me) I would go all stop and he would just turn around like he always knew where I was.

New sonar contact, warship, slow speed, long distance! Wait, what? What the hell is this?

Apparently I don't know if I just happened to be in the path of a DD patrol or if this pain in the ass destroyer phoned home for help but there are now FOUR (4) more destroyers heading directly to my location from about 10km away. How the hell did this happen?

Long story short, the 4 additional destroyers came right at me. This had to be intentional. I had no chance. 2 or 3 of them took turns depth charging while the rest sat and pinged me nonstop. I lasted another hour like this but there was ZERO chance of losing them, and the water was getting shallower. Once the damage started, it was over pretty quick.

Now besides the things I was curious about (Ill list them again), I have a few observations:

1) I did fire 2 of the steam torpedo's because of the speed and distance of the convoy; can a destroyer, that is not THAT far off the waterline see a small steam trail in the water from 2km away??

2) Why does NOONE in my crew tell me when there are depth charges in the friggen water?

3) How long can the destroyer not 'hear' me after a depth charge goes off? Can I go to flank during this, or is there a threshold as to what the charges will cover?

4) How do you get away from the sonar? Did I just have bad luck and 140m wasn't deep enough? I was at minimum profile and hugging the seafloor each time and was found almost every time.

5) If I am in the yellow detection circle on the minimap, does this mean I have a good chance of being detected, or that I WILL 100% be detected? This is what I am very curious about because he kept me in the yellow circle quite often. But then when I got out (or it shrank when his screws were facing me) I would go all stop and he would just turn around like he always knew where I was.

Some observations:

- I was disappointed that during my assbeating when half the sub was being flooded that all of my crew were simply standing around like nothing was going on. I would have thought there would be a script to where they would look panicky and be fixing ****. I mean, the forward compartment is under water and sparks are flying as Dieter is standing there shooting the **** with the hydrophone guy and 3 crew members are sleeping in their bunks. WHAT?!?

- Compartment hatch doors are there for decoration only.

- The damage control screen is confusing. Is there even a separate option to have the crew work on the flooding as opposed to fixing something that really doesn't matter at that moment? I had no clue what the hell was going on.

- Class A Destroyers are a pain in the ass.

[stoianm]

read this thread from here and you will find answeres at some questions that you posted:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181405

regards

[Dignan]

I'm pretty new to SH5 myself but I only have one guess as to how he pegged you so precisely.

"The sounding to the floor was 145m."

Did you use the depth sounding device while the destroyer was nearby? That could explain how he found you initially. I'm not sure if the game models this well or not.

As far as the damage control animations...did you activate damage control crews? Does SH5 even have this like SH4? As I said, I'm still knew to 5.

[Zedi]

IRAI is hard, too hard. By default, first thing I do after download is to ease the settings down to 8. From my painful experience I learned to avoid being 2 close to the targets. Only in the first campaign I attacked from inside the convoys, never since then.

Now, I only attack from long range. If I got steam torpedoes, things are complicated as the escorts will see the trail and alarm the convoy. So better is to shadow the convoy until the evening/night or until you have bad weather. I loose my fish at max distance and soon as the last one is on way, I back off at full power.

With the electric torpedoes I can attack at daytime, but I have to be really quick as the range is pretty close. With the acoustic torpedoes I dont even bother to calculate much, just set the bearing and shot a salvo. They do the rest all alone.

Point is that if an escort detects you, ur good as dead. Almost impossible to escape. Not with IRAI. So attack at night/low visibility if you have steam torpedoes and always try to stay at max range. Soon as the last torpedo is in the water, back off at max speed. Dont turn, thats just waste of time.. just back off at max speed. Reload and start over the chase.

While shadowing a convoy, is always good to report contact. If there is a wolfpack or any friendly unit in range, they come and engage the enemy, true story.

[oscar19681]

I dont know if its a stock bug or its because of MO or anything. But the Destoyers seem to have an endless supply of depthcharges.

[vonCrandall]

IRAI is hard, too hard. By default, first thing I do after download is to ease the settings down to 8. From my painful experience I learned to avoid being 2 close to the targets. Only in the first campaign I attacked from inside the convoys, never since then.

Now, I only attack from long range. If I got steam torpedoes, things are complicated as the escorts will see the trail and alarm the convoy. So better is to shadow the convoy until the evening/night or until you have bad weather. I loose my fish at max distance and soon as the last one is on way, I back off at full power.

With the electric torpedoes I can attack at daytime, but I have to be really quick as the range is pretty close. With the acoustic torpedoes I dont even bother to calculate much, just set the bearing and shot a salvo. They do the rest all alone.

Point is that if an escort detects you, ur good as dead. Almost impossible to escape. Not with IRAI. So attack at night/low visibility if you have steam torpedoes and always try to stay at max range. Soon as the last torpedo is in the water, back off at max speed. Dont turn, thats just waste of time.. just back off at max speed. Reload and start over the chase.

While shadowing a convoy, is always good to report contact. If there is a wolfpack or any friendly unit in range, they come and engage the enemy, true story.

Dumb question as I have seen it before, but what is IRAI? And how do I see/change the settings on it?

I have the Magnum Opus mod, if that has anything to do with it.

[vonCrandall]

I dont know if its a stock bug or its because of MO or anything. But the Destoyers seem to have an endless supply of depthcharges.

I agree. The Class A was throwing them for 2 hours.

How many charges did destroyers usually carry? He had to have thrown over 50.

[vonCrandall]

read this thread from here and you will find answeres at some questions that you posted:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=181405

regards

I saw that one. Your tactic for evading is almost the same as mine.

As for sonar evasion and if the destroyer 'phoned home' for help, I'm still confused on.

[TheDarkWraith]

I saw that one. Your tactic for evading is almost the same as mine.

As for sonar evasion and if the destroyer 'phoned home' for help, I'm still confused on.

Any ship you attack will 'radio' for help. If any escort/destroyer is within a 30km radius of the attacked ship it will respond to the call. Any aircraft nearby will also respond. IRAI does this.

[vonCrandall]

Any ship you attack will 'radio' for help. If any escort/destroyer is within a 30km radius of the attacked ship it will respond to the call. Any aircraft nearby will also respond. IRAI does this.

Yep, and they came and found me.

I found the AI folder and wanted to edit some of the difficulty settings. Which heading are the settings under that I would change to make the destroyer difficulty not 100%?

[oscar19681]

Any ship you attack will 'radio' for help. If any escort/destroyer is within a 30km radius of the attacked ship it will respond to the call. Any aircraft nearby will also respond. IRAI does this.

What is known about how manyh depth charges are carried by the destoyers in-game? I sometimes have the feeling that they have an unlimited amount .

[ETsd4]

Now, I only attack from long range. If I got steam torpedoes, things are complicated as the escorts will see the trail and alarm the convoy. So better is to shadow the convoy until the evening/night or until you have bad weather. I loose my fish at max distance and soon as the last one is on way, I back off at full power.



Some questions: +
- when you pull back with max speed during the ongoing torpedoattack why can not a destroyer detect you with his sonar? With a sonar max speed can you hear quite well. I have read the sonar of a destroyer is at least as good as a sonar from an u-boot.
- what do you mean with long-range-attack: 2 km distance, 3 km distance or what distance?

[Zedi]

Sonar will not detect you at scope depth, so don't go deep after you release the torpedoes. I back off at max speed until the first torpedo impact, in the next second to that I stop engines or I continue at silent running.. depends on the range.

Max range depends on the torpedo type. Check the torpedo you have loaded to see their max range. With steam torpedoes, you can have a 12 km long shots. Is very difficult and you need to have very good calculations to make sure you will hit your target. It needs a lot of practice, but if your not sure about the data, try blind salvos.. at least 1 torpedo will hit a target. Is what many captains did, many of them used salvos even on a single target if they were not sure about their calculations.

Also, in early campaigns you can attack from surface. Wait for the night or bad weather with low visibility, get into position at max range and shot. Then hit the road at max speed on surface, there is no way you will be detected and until the first torpedo will hit the target, you are far aways from the crime scene. Later on, when the radar is introduced, stay under water.. the escorts will detect you very precisely from a long range and your good as dead.

SH is a game of patience and strategy, if you dont have that.. your playing the wrong game :P

[stoianm]

Sonar will not detect you at scope depth, only at close range. I back off at max speed until the first torpedo impact, in the next second to that I stop engines or I continue at silent running.. depends on the range.

Max range depends on the torpedo type. Check the torpedo you have loaded to see their max range. With steam torpedoes, you can have a 12 km long shots. Is very difficult and you need to have very good calculations to make sure you will hit your target. It needs a lot of practice, but if your not sure about the data, try blind salvos.. at least 1 torpedo will hit a target. Is what many captains did, many of them used salvos even on a single target if they were not sure about their calculations.

Also, in early campaigns you can attack from surface. Wait for the night or bad weather with low visibility, get into position at max range and shot. Then hit the road, there is no way you will be detected.. until the first torpedo will hit the target, you are far aways from the crime scene. Later on, when the radar is introduced, stay under water.. the escorts will detect you very precisely from a long range and your good as dead.

SH is a game of patience and strategy, if you dont have that.. your playing the wrong game :P
i am not sure but i think that the radar is the same all over the war years in sh5:hmmm: - i am refering at DDs radar - did you checked the eqp file to see if is some diference related to the year?

[Zedi]

It will not become active until.. late 41, not sure the date exactly. First time I got detected by enemy radar was in Black Pit campaign. And it turned very ugly in short time.

[stoianm]

It will not become active until.. late 41, not sure the date exactly. First time I got detected by enemy radar was in Black Pit campaign. And it turned very ugly in short time.
i think you are wright ... i just checked the eqp for Tribal... here are 2 lines that becom active after 1941:

[Equipment 12]
NodeName=W01
LinkName=DCRack
StartDate=19410601
EndDate=19451231

[Equipment 14]
NodeName=W02
LinkName=DCRack
StartDate=19410601
EndDate=19451231

the radar maybe is in one of these DCRacks... what do you think?

[oscar19681]

What exaclty do i tone down in the init.aix the reduce the escort difficulty?

[stoianm]

What exaclty do i tone down in the init.aix the reduce the escort difficulty?

the lines in yellow:

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;

[Bilge_Rat]

Sonar will not detect you at scope depth, so don't go deep after you release the torpedoes. I back off at max speed until the first torpedo impact, in the next second to that I stop engines or I continue at silent running.. depends on the range.



That's not true actually Magnum, the passive/active sonar cone is at its biggest at PD depth, the shallower you are the easier you are to pick up.

[oscar19681]

the lines in yellow:

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;

Cool but if doest have the min and max lines in my text , mine looks like this

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;

[Bilge_Rat]

some have been answered already, but some comments:


The convoy consists of 12 merchants and 1 lone destroyer riding shotgun in front of them all. Given this fact, I decide to engage them now


I would have done the same.

First nothing. He just keeps chugging along, and then within 15-20 seconds, he makes a hard left and straightens out at what likes like DIRECTLY at me. First question: I did fire 2 of the steam torpedo's because of the speed and distance of the convoy; can a destroyer, that is not THAT far off the waterline see a small steam trail in the water from 2km away?? Is this what made him turn - he didn't have a 'good idea' where I was, he was literally aimed directly at me.

I think it's a combination of factors. First, it appears the escort AI is programmed to head towards the general direction of where the torps comes from after they hit and start searching. Second, after the torpedo hits, the escort's state should change from "passive" (i.e. just another boring day at sea) to "alert" (i.e. finally, some action!). When that happens, the range of all its sensors increase including the visual sensor (i.e. the grey cone). If your periscope is inside the grey cone, the escort may see it and come charging over.

example:

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/5793/scope003.jpg

Here I am just outside the "grey" visual cone with my scope just barely above the sea surface and the visual cones of the escorts still extends out to around 1,500 meters. This cone is affected by sea state, alert state and how high your scope extends, so he could easily spot your scope in calm seas at 2 km, especially if it is fully extended.

At this point I am watching the yellow detection circle. As the destroyer (Class A) is starting to do random circles in the area and I start hearing distant depth charge explosions. Question 2: Why does NOONE in my crew tell me when there are depth charges in the friggen water?

that is not in the game, and I am fairly sure it was not possible in RL, despite what the movies show. :ping:

My tactic to get away is fairly simple. I pick a general direction I want to head to, in this case is was between North and East. I turn my rudder left or right at times, but keep within 00 and 090. Whenever the DD is close and there are depth charge explosions, I go flank ahead, I turn my rudder (keeping within N and E for this example) and go down another 10-20m. Whenever I think the last depth charge just went off, I go back to all slow and rudder amidships. Question 3: How long can the destroyer not 'hear' me after a depth charge goes off?

the disruption of water after the DCs go off which exists in RL is not modeled in the SH series. If you go to "flank", it just makes you "noisier" and easier for all the escorts to detect. On the other hand, you sometimes have no choice but to go to "flank" to get out of the way of the DCs, so its a trade off.

An hour passes. No damage and he barely, if at all, even got close. The problem is, he won't go away. I am almost on the bottom of the seafloor at this point. Anytime he drifts off and I have a good size distance gap between us, his sonar begins searching and almost always finds me even thought I am at an almost 180 degree slim profile and 3m from the ocean floor. Question 4: How do you get away from the sonar? Did I just have bad luck and 140m wasn't deep enough?

the passive (yellow) and active (red) sonar cone go smaller as you go deeper, slower, more silent. Your tactic is good, 140 meters "may" not be deep enough if he is waiting right on top of you, which they will do with IRAI.


I cannot for the life of me evade this destroyer. After 2 hours I start with other tricks; make ALOT of noise and have him come to depth charge me only to pull a 180 and go totally silent in the other direction, sit on the floor at All Stop, try going multiple directions after being depth charged - nothing works. Question 5: If I am in the yellow detection circle on the minimap, does this mean I have a good chance of being detected, or that I WILL 100% be detected? This is what I am very curious about because he kept me in the yellow circle quite often. But then when I got out (or it shrank when his screws were facing me) I would go all stop and he would just turn around like he always knew where I was.

no, when you are in the yellow cone, it takes a certian amount of time before the escort can "hear" you, although I think it is only around 15 seconds. It also appears to be affected by other factors, such as your position relative to the escort (i.e. facing or broadside) and the escorts skill (i.e. veteran/green) and alertness state (i.e. passive/alert).

On the second part, after the escort "loses" you, it will keep searching for a fixed period of time, 15 mins in stock, but I think (30-180 mins ?) in IRAI. It will also, I believe, begin a spiral search pattern around the area where it lost you to try to reacquire contact. If it does not find you within that time it will leave. If it does find you within that time, then everything starts all over again.

IRAI also has a "fatigue" script where over time the escort's crew will become tired and less effective, although that may take 12-24 hours to have an impact.

New sonar contact, warship, slow speed, long distance! Wait, what? What the hell is this?

Apparently I don't know if I just happened to be in the path of a DD patrol or if this pain in the ass destroyer phoned home for help but there are now FOUR (4) more destroyers heading directly to my location from about 10km away. How the hell did this happen?

As TDW answered, other escorts in the area will converge.

In terms of tactics (since I also play with IRAI), if I am dealing with 1 escort, I would stay at PD and try to sink the escort rather than going deep.

[stoianm]

Cool but if doest have the min and max lines in my text , mine looks like this

# for non-merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY = 1.0;
# for merchants
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MERCHANT = 1.0;
install the version v30 of IRAI and you will have the same lines

[oscar19681]

What should i edit the lines to now? I currently being eaten up by 3 destoyers that wont let me go and i think its better to update and install the newer version when in port.

[stoianm]

What should i edit the lines to now? I currently being eaten up by 3 destoyers that wont let me go and i think its better to update and install the newer version when in port.
if you played at level 1 untill now:haha: (wich is almoust imposible) than i sugest you to live the IRAIv30 by default - you can install anytime.. in port or in patrol

[Trevally.]

On the second part, after the escort "loses" you, it will keep searching for a fixed period of time, 15 mins in stock, but I think (30-180 mins ?) in IRAI. It will also, I believe, begin a spiral search pattern around the area where it lost you to try to reacquire contact. If it does not find you within that time it will leave. If it does find you within that time, then everything starts all over again.

Good post Bilge Rat, very informative:up:

I would also add that if the escorts have lost you and they are searching,
they will also stop searching if the convoy move a certain distance away.

[TheDarkWraith]

the disruption of water after the DCs go off which exists in RL is not modeled in the SH series. If you go to "flank", it just makes you "noisier" and easier for all the escorts to detect. On the other hand, you sometimes have no choice but to go to "flank" to get out of the way of the DCs, so its a trade off.

ah, now I understand what Rubini was trying to tell me in the SH3 Mods forum. There should be a way to model this in game :hmmm:

[stoianm]

the disruption of water after the DCs go off which exists in RL is not modeled in the SH series. If you go to "flank", it just makes you "noisier" and easier for all the escorts to detect. On the other hand, you sometimes have no choice but to go to "flank" to get out of the way of the DCs, so its a trade off.

the passive (yellow) and active (red) sonar cone go smaller as you go deeper, slower, more silent. Your tactic is good, 140 meters "may" not be deep enough if he is waiting right on top of you, which they will do with IRAI.

I did not know that the noise from underwater not affect the escorts... i think i should reconsider my evasions tactics... tnx for informations

ah, now I understand what Rubini was trying to tell me in the SH3 Mods forum. There should be a way to model this in game :hmmm:

Are you saying that maybe you can make that the underwater noise to affect DDs capacity of detection.... i think this will add a lot of immersivity in game:yep:

[vonCrandall]

ah, now I understand what Rubini was trying to tell me in the SH3 Mods forum. There should be a way to model this in game :hmmm:

This makes me feel a bit better. I was under the impression this was modeled in the game as I feel that it is an important aspect. For some reason I really thought this existed.

Not having the explosions from the DD 'fog' the water for a set amount of time afterward, and me going to full/flank for 15 or 20 seconds at a time during a depth/coarse change while being depth charged explains mostly everything: even if he has lost me, by not having the mechanic to 'fog' the water, I literally screamed HERE I AM!!! everytime I went to full/flank.

This makes perfect sense now as to why the DD wouldn't go away and at times had lost me only to turn around and come to within 1m of my position.

[Bilge_Rat]

I think the reason why it is not as apparent in other SH sims, is because SH5 allows for more sophisticated and realistic behavior of the escorts, as with IRAI.

For example, I was playing SH4 last night, testing some issues with RFB, got caught by an escort which nailed me with DCs. I did an evasive maneuver at flank, went deep and slowed to a crawl. He lost me, failed to regain contact and moved on periodically dropping DCs far from me.

From that, you would be tempted to conclude that the DCs scrambled the water, but it is probably due more to the limitations the game places on the escorts sensors and behavior.

TDW - if you can fix this, it would be fantastic. :up:

[oscar19681]

I noticed that whenever DC explode the yellow sensor circles of the Destoyers decrease . So i think the distortion of the DC,s is implemented it think. Or it might me because of IRAI i,m not shure.

I installed the latest version of IRAI by the way and toned down the destoyers skills a bit. I battled the escorts for 5 to 6 hours game time. This was axillerating to say at leasts. I only had about 140 meters of water to work with and i went as deep as i could. The DC,,s where hitting me bad and i was desperatly looking for deeper water. But everytime when i thought i lost them they caught up with me and the DC,s that did manage to hit me slammed by boat into the ocean floor damaging my pressure hull and damageing my systems that got repaired and damaged again on several occasions. Its something about MO and IRAI that compelled me to keep playing and gave me this desparate DAS BOAT feeling/experience i have been looking for in all the SH series but never quite got. After a while i was wondering if i would ever gonna make it out alive before my co-2 would become dangerous. But really , if you play in real time and try to outsmart the AI in the cat and mouse game in really pays of. And indeed after about 6 hours game time i begon to see gaps in the destoyers search patterns and lost me a couple of times and caught up with me but sooner or later they lost me . Cool thing was 2 of the destoyers went back for the convoy i attacked but one corvette stuck around in an attempt to catch me on the surface. All in all it was the second time where they allmost got me in my SH-5 MO career. ROCK ON!! :rock:

[Bilge_Rat]

I noticed that whenever DC explode the yellow sensor circles of the Destoyers decrease . So i think the distortion of the DC,s is implemented it think. Or it might me because of IRAI i,m not shure.

interesting. I will have to retest that.

I installed the latest version of IRAI by the way and toned down the destoyers skills a bit. I battled the escorts for 5 to 6 hours game time. This was axillerating to say at leasts. I only had about 140 meters of water to work with and i went as deep as i could. The DC,,s where hitting me bad and i was desperatly looking for deeper water. But everytime when i thought i lost them they caught up with me and the DC,s that did manage to hit me slammed by boat into the ocean floor damaging my pressure hull and damageing my systems that got repaired and damaged again on several occasions. Its something about MO and IRAI that compelled me to keep playing and gave me this desparate DAS BOAT feeling/experience i have been looking for in all the SH series but never quite got. After a while i was wondering if i would ever gonna make it out alive before my co-2 would become dangerous. But really , if you play in real time and try to outsmart the AI in the cat and mouse game in really pays of. And indeed after about 6 hours game time i begon to see gaps in the destoyers search patterns and lost me a couple of times and caught up with me but sooner or later they lost me . Cool thing was 2 of the destoyers went back for the convoy i attacked but one corvette stuck around in an attempt to catch me on the surface. All in all it was the second time where they allmost got me in my SH-5 MO career. ROCK ON!! :rock:

good news. :arrgh!: what did you set the destroyer skill to?

[oscar19681]

As advised stoianmd with the latest IRAI mod.
I must say its still not for the faint harted or beginners but for me personally i think that the AI will try all they can to kill or hurt you while still give you a fair chance if you try hard enough and if you have the patience enough to duke it out with the AI in 5 or 6 hours real time. You must however use all your skills to shake the Destoyers and they wont make many mistakes. It really is true what TDW sayed when we remarked " no more tc when under DC attack. " If you will try you WILL die. What makes the AI modinteressting is that the DC attacks are nolonger , oh another destoyers trowing cans trying to kill me , how funny . Lets put oon the tc and refitt. It really does give you the horrifying moments seen in das boot , only longer and more intens. lots of manouvering , engines on engines off. Depth changes etc,etc. I mean lets face it in the end everybody playes this game for these moments. These moments were the AI or the " ALLIES " will test you and you must show why the game calls you an ACE!!! Try these settings and tell me what YOU think. Wannebe ACES..


VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
VISUAL_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
HYDROPHONE_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
RADAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MIN = 85;
SONAR_DIFFICULTY_MAX = 95;

[Bilge_Rat]

so I ran some quick tests to make sure I was not spreading false info (would not be the first time :ping:), but I can confirm DC explosions have no effect on the escorts sonar.

exhibit 1: escorts listening, no DCs in water:

http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/3195/sh5nondc001.jpg




exhibit 2: escorts listening, right after DC explosion:

http://img143.imageshack.us/img143/9228/afterdc002a.jpg
so DC explosions have no effect on the escort's passive sonar cone.

exhibit 3: this is what happens when you go to "flank" immediately after the DC explosion:

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/3377/sh5flank003.jpg

basically you are just broadcasting your location to every escort in the neighborhood.

[oscar19681]

Well i wasnt really running on flank . I think running it flank might overpower the DC,s try testing it on silent running.

[Jaguar]

One question:

Since at the beggining of the war sensors and DEs skills are not well developed it makes sense to start with lower difficult settings and then increase difficult as the times passes by. Any sugestions on how to do this? I´m thinking about to start with 50-70 (hydro/sonar) in 1939 and go slowly to 90-100 in mid 1943 :dead:.

[Bilge_Rat]

One question:

Since at the beggining of the war sensors and DEs skills are not well developed it makes sense to start with lower difficult settings and then increase difficult as the times passes by. Any sugestions on how to do this? I´m thinking about to start with 50-70 (hydro/sonar) in 1939 and go slowly to 90-100 in mid 1943 :dead:.

Funny you should mention that since I was thinking the same thing yesterday. IRAI really represents the Allied escorts as they were in 43-45 and is too powerful for the early years.

Its easy to make the change you suggest, you have to modify a line in the Init.Aix file. You can find details in the IRAI thread. You could then increase the AI skill when in port between patrols as the years advance.

[Jaguar]

Funny you should mention that since I was thinking the same thing yesterday. IRAI really represents the Allied escorts as they were in 43-45 and is too powerful for the early years.

Its easy to make the change you suggest, you have to modify a line in the Init.Aix file. You can find details in the IRAI thread. You could then increase the AI skill when in port between patrols as the years advance.

Thx BR. I formulated my question badly though :oops: (english ...:nope:). I already know how to implement it, I´m just curious about the increasing "schedule" you knowledgeable people might suggest ;) .

[Jaguar]

so I ran some quick tests to make sure I was not spreading false info (would not be the first time :ping:), but I can confirm DC explosions have no effect on the escorts sonar.

so DC explosions have no effect on the escort's passive sonar cone.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/3377/sh5flank003.jpgbasically you are just broadcasting your location to every escort in the neighborhood.

No more: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?p=1624760&posted=1#post1624760 :rock: