Chara Hit

[Gargamel]

If you have heard any hockey news over these past few days, you have definitely seen Tuesday night’s Zdeno Chara hit that result in Max Pacioretty sustaining a Grade-3 concussion and two fractured vertebrae in his neck.http://theclevelandfan.com/images/stories/charapacioretty.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx2AxYxgqRA

Watching the video, it seems like a clean, standard hockey play. Guy chips the puck down the ice, your job is to impede, without interfering, with that guy. Chara got called for interference, I believe, as he did interfere with the guy.

Malicious? Hockey? Just bad luck?

This guy is HUGE. I think Chara stands around 6'9" (206 cm), 260 lbs (118 kg), so even a slight push sends people flying.

Apparently the Montreal PD is looking into filing charges, but is it really charge worthy? Is it worse than the Bertuzzi Hit? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21_sV_YDFKY)

[Bort]

Your impression is correct in my opinion. Chara is a monstrous figure but is in no way a malicious player. He made an unfair play and received the deserved penalty. That being said, the hit itself was not bad. What was bad was the situation in which it occurred. If the hit had happened almost anywhere else on the boards, there would be no injury to speak of.

[Molon Labe]

I think there is room to argue intent, but I'd come out on the no intent to injure side. And this is nothing like the Bertuzzi incident, not by a long shot. This was a hockey play, perhaps an illegal one, that occurred during the game. The Bertuzzi incident was nothing short of an assassination that occurred when the puck was not in play and had absolutely no connection to the game.

The police investigation on this is nothing more than a show for the Quebecois. Charges aren't going to happen unless what happened was well outside the boundaries of the sport. Late hits happen all the time.

[ReallyDedPoet]

http://theclevelandfan.com/images/stories/charapacioretty.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mx2AxYxgqRA

Watching the video, it seems like a clean, standard hockey play. Guy chips the puck down the ice, your job is to impede, without interfering, with that guy. Chara got called for interference, I believe, as he did interfere with the guy.

Malicious? Hockey? Just bad luck?



It was more than that. Have a look at this video from January,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw-6Ct2Q_2c&feature=related
same teams playing, Pacioretty scores the OT winner, then there is a scrum involving him, Chara and others.

Then there is the brawl in Feb.:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLPHb6issFk Again same two teams.

Then there was the Chara hit the other night. Is this the Bertuzzi thing, no, far from it. But it is more than just a hit, all of the stuff
I mentioned, the back-story, had a role to play. Based on that and as ML mentioned, one could argue intent.

[Platapus]

A poster on another forum had a great idea.

Chara needs to be suspended until the guy he hit can come back to play.

That should apply to other sports where some player injures another player.

[Growler]

Why is Chara's left hand/glove in the other guy's face?

Looks like intent to me, but I'm just an old defenseman who used his 6'6" on skates to impede the other guy's progress down the ice.

[Molon Labe]

Why is Chara's left hand/glove in the other guy's face?


Because he's pushing Patches' shoulder with his forearm. But yeah, if you're going to argue intent, this is where to do it.

It was more than that. Have a look at this video from January,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw-6C...eature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sw-6Ct2Q_2c&feature=related)
same teams playing, Pacioretty scores the OT winner, then there is a scrum involving him, Chara and others.

Then there is the brawl in Feb.:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLPHb6issFk Again same two teams.
Scrums happen all the time. There just isn't enough bad blood in those incidents to lead to retaliation. And Chara's been playing since forever without having to face the disciplinary commission. I just don't buy it.

A poster on another forum had a great idea.

Chara needs to be suspended until the guy he hit can come back to play.

That should apply to other sports where some player injures another player.

The entire point of suspensions is to try to deter dangerous and illegal conduct. Injuries can be pretty random, though--- perfectly clean hits can cause injuries, and sometimes even the grand slam combination of illegal hits might not cause any injury. Tieing suspensions to injury amounts to "punishment lottery" that many dirty players would be happy to play, and you would end up with an increase in illegal hits and injuries because of it. Not to mention you'd have a horrible inconsistency in punishment, and right now the biggest complaint against the NHL is consistency.

There is a lot of injustice in the length of suspension vs. the length of injuries, and that ought to be remedied, but is has to be done in a way that maintains consistency--the same hit needs to be punished the same. I'd like to see Campbell do a study and figure out how many games are lost to each kind of hit and set the suspension length so that on average the people committing the hits are sitting out more time than the players on the receiving end.

[Platapus]

The entire point of suspensions is to try to deter dangerous and illegal conduct. Injuries can be pretty random, though--- perfectly clean hits can cause injuries, and sometimes even the grand slam combination of illegal hits might not cause any injury. Tieing suspensions to injury amounts to "punishment lottery" that many dirty players would be happy to play, and you would end up with an increase in illegal hits and injuries because of it. Not to mention you'd have a horrible inconsistency in punishment, and right now the biggest complaint against the NHL is consistency.



Many good points I did not consider. :salute:

[Growler]

Because he's pushing Patches' shoulder with his forearm. But yeah, if you're going to argue intent, this is where to do it.



Man, I can't speak for everyone in the game, but I know that when I first started playing hockey many moons ago, I was taught - especially as a defenseman - that if you wanted to avoid being called for penalties, keep both hands on the stick and the blade close to the ice when you hit a guy. Chara's been in the league long enough to know that; his left hand ain't anywhere near his right, and is instead up in the guy's face. Now even if he hit the guy in the shoulder and momentum carried his hand up there, if he'd had both hands on the stick and executed a clean hit, it just wouldn't have done that the same way.

I've seen clean hits, I've seen dirty hits, and I've seen questionable hits. Almost uniformly, the dirty & questionable hits that gain attention bring up a story of grudge & reprisal. As if the NHL weren't having problems enough, letting this kid of stuff go to try and regain the "tough guy" image that Bettman utterly killed in the 90's is only going to accelerate the league's demise.

Bettman needs to go, and get someone in there who actually likes the game, as opposed to Bettman, who only appears to like himself.

[ReallyDedPoet]

Scrums happen all the time. There just isn't enough bad blood in those incidents to lead to retaliation. And Chara's been playing since forever without having to face the disciplinary commission. I just don't buy it.



Sure they do, but one could argue a pattern here over the last 2-3 months between these two teams. They are skilled players, including checking, and by that I mean they know where to hit, including how to use the arena to their advantage.

He is a veteran player, but that does not absolve him from a moment of stupidity.

[Gargamel]

But if you watch the video, it looks no worse than any other hit I've ever seen.

Yeah there was some History between these guys, and maybe that's why he did hit him a touch late. But In real time, It was a borderline penalty to start with.

Just total luck of the draw as to how and where he hit the board.

I think most of the blame should be on the design of the glass, not the player. If they had some sloping glass that lead up to the boards instead of that sharp angle, he would have just glanced off them.

[ReallyDedPoet]

I think most of the blame should be on the design of the glass, not the player. If they had some sloping glass that lead up to the boards instead of that sharp angle, he would have just glanced off them.

Yeah this is a problem. Nice suggestion.

As far as the hit, the turnbuckle is right there, if anything he guided him into it, these players know the ice\arena very well. He ( Chara ) knew he would get a penalty ( interference ), he was beat on the outside. He could have hooked him, etc., and would have held up Pacioretty, instead this happened.

[Factor]

...should be worth mentioning that these two teams are hated rivals...


That freak of nature KNEW where that end glass was. Shoved his head right into it. Im pretty sure I heard Chara say bullseye as Pacioretty head smashed into it.

[Gargamel]

Rivals or not, History or not, Chara is regarded (IRRC) as a nice, big ass, tough, hard hitting player. I highly doubt he would intentionally do something to hurt another. If anything, if there was ANY intent, he just meant to give a bruise on the hip or shoulder. I highly doubt that he would intended to knock the guy out of the game, let alone his career.