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Feuer Frei!
03-07-11, 10:34 AM
The burning question is: Can the West stop Jihad and if so, how? Should the West attempt to stop Jihad?
There is a call for a complete separation again from those who uphold Islam and the West.
The following reasons are being given:

# Islam is a mortal threat to our civilization.

# But we cannot destroy Islam.

# Nor can we democratize Islam.

# Nor can we assimilate Islam.

Why Jihad went global:
Since September 11, Al Qaeda has been portrayed as an Islamist front united in armed struggle, or jihad, against the Christian West. However, as the historian and commentator Fawaz A. Gerges argues, the reality is rather different and more complex. In fact, Al Qaeda represents a minority within the jihadist movement, and its strategies have been vehemently criticized and opposed by religious nationalists among the jihadis, who prefer to concentrate on changing the Muslim world rather than taking the fight global. It is this rift that led to the events of September 11 and that has dominated subsequent developments. Through several years of primary field research, the author unravels the story of the jihadist movement and explores how it came into being, the philosophies of its founding fathers, its structure, the rifts and tensions that split its ranks, and why some members, like Osama bin Laden and his deputy Ayman al-Zawahiri, favored international over local strategies in taking the war to the West. This is an articulate and original book that sheds light on the tactics used by the jihadis in the last three decades. As more alienated young Muslims are seduced into joining, the author asks where the jihadist movement is going and whether it can survive and shed its violent character. Fawaz A. Gerges holds the Christian A. Johnson Chair in International Affairs and Middle Eastern Studies at Sarah Lawrence College.He was educated at Oxford University and the London School of Economics and has previously been a Research Fellow at Harvard and Princeton universities. He is also a senior analyst and regular commentator for ABC television news. His books include America and Political Islam: Clash of Interests or Clash of Cultures? (Cambridge,1999) and The Journey of the Jihadis: A Biography of a State of Mind (Harcourt Press, 2006). He has written extensively on Arab and Muslim politics, Islamist movements, American foreign policy, and relations between the world of Islam and the West. His articles have appeared in several of the most prestigious journals and newspapers in the United States, Europe, and the Middle East.
Review
"In this well-grounded and at times gripping account of militant Islamist activism, Gerges gives the most persuasive explanation yet for the direction taken by those jihadis who have set their sights on nothing less than a shift in the global balance of power. Taking these ruthless idealists of the new century seriously, through their writings and through interviews, he brings an immediacy to the story which shows up their limitations, but also underlines the ferocity of their desire to eliminate those who stand against them." Professor Charles Tripp, School of Oriental and African Studies, University of London.
Islam is a religion which had historically converted by the sword:
It seems clear that histories of Islam readily acknowledge that Muhammad himself led raids on many villages and towns (some of which were Christian or Jewish) and slaughtered or forcefully converted the inhabitants. He helped to plan dozens more for other Muslims before he died. History suggest that he was more peaceful early on, when he didn't have sufficient numbers to force his will upon resistant populations. If you pick up a Koran (not one with a modernist, toned-down translation, but a traditional translation that makes a serious attempt to be faithful to the original), especially read the chapter entitled "Repentance". The call for violence against non-believers is blatant and undeniable (and in this chapter, Christians and Jews are clearly lumped in together with pagans). Some revisionists (perhaps well-meaning) have tried to tell the non-Muslim public that "jihad" is has only ever been about the interior struggle for holiness. One wishes it were true, but it appears that "jihad" is and has always been much more than that.
Some of troubling verses from the Koran:
"It is not for any Prophet to have prisoners until he make wide slaughter in the land." (The Spoils, 67-68)

"I shall cast into the unbeliever's hearts terror; so cut their heads off, and cut off every finger of them." (the Spoils, 12)

"then, when the sacred months are drawn away, slay idolaters wherever you find them." (Repentance, 5)

Honor Killings:

Once the Muslims have accomplished their Jihad in our nations we who have become Muslims can look forward to a constant flow of customary "Honor Killings" of women.

It is already happening, but not all cases are made public. Many Muslims claim that these are not honor killings, just fathers punishing their uncontrollable daughters who sadly die from the punishment.
A Muslim man murdered his daughter in Toronto, Canada, because she dressed like the non-Muslim girls in school. During open line radio discussions there were actually Muslims coming to the defense of the murderer.

Professor Hans Jansen explains why the Koran is "a license to kill"
January 27, 2008

"Jihad is the battle for triumph of Islam and it is simply the use of violence against non believers."..

"We Westerners make ourselves guilty of insulting Islam, simply when we don't become Muslims. Because that way we deny that the Koran is God's word."

SOURCE (http://www.militantislammonitor.org/article/id/3337)


The largest religion in the world is the Muslim religion now. There are more Muslims than Roman Catholics.

Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52:
Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihad)

Volume 4, Book 52, Number 41:
Narrated Abdullah bin Masud:
I asked Allah’s Apostle, “O Allah’s Apostle! What is the best deed?” He replied, “To offer the prayers at their early stated fixed times.” I asked, “What is next in goodness?” He replied, “To be good and dutiful to your parents.” I further asked, what is next in goodness?” He replied, “To participate in Jihad in Allah’s Cause.”

SOURCE (http://theunjustmedia.com/Islamic%20Perspectives/March%202008/Fighting%20for%20the%20Cause%20of%20Allah%20%28Jih ad%29.htm)


Western leaders believe that they can maintain the Western democratic way of life and economic system through military might, fighting terrorism, and appeasement. The leaders of the Islamic movement know that they will not be able to create the global Islamic state through the sword--guns, bombs and violence. This will be jihad fought only in the battlefield of the mind with a weapon far more powerful than any sword or bomb. The weapon in this jihad must include knowledge, but they do not believe that this can be accomplished solely as an “education jihad.” However, utilizing “economic jihad” for control of the world’s economic system provides the ultimate answer. Knowledge combined with economic control can be wielded with the precision of a sharp sword to effect any desired social/political change necessary for the fulfillment of Islam’s goal.

As shown above, the West has not comprehended the true nature and goals of Islam. It has also perhaps underestimated that the 1.2 to 1.4 billion Muslims of the world are not as poorly equipped as the West might like to believe for winning this war based on economic control, demographics, control of natural resources including energy and knowledge.



An intrinsic part of the Islamic faith is jihad. While modern Islamic scholars have endeavored to redefine jihad, claiming that it is primarily a struggle with self, history proves otherwise.

A major, twofold fact transforms the jihad into something quite different from traditional wars, waged for ambition and self-interest, with limited objectives, where the “normal” situation is peace between peoples. War in itself constitutes a dramatic event, which must end in a return to peace. Jihad does not end. The twofold factor is first the religious nature, then the fact that war has become an institution and no longer an “event”. Jihad is a continuing religious duty.

It is important to note that it is not the duty of Muslims primarily to conquer lands through Jihad but to Islamize the population.

In Islam jihad is a religious obligation. It forms part of the duties that the believer must fulfill. It is Islam’s normal path to expansion.

Hence, the second important specific characteristic is that the jihad is aninstitution—a process, and not an event; that is to say, it is part of the normal functioning of the Muslim world.

The conquered populations change status (they become dhimmis[11] (http://www.salemthesoldier.us/jonsson_shariah_economics.html#_edn11)), and the Shariah tends to be put into effect integrally, overthrowing the former law of the country. The conquered territories do not simply change “owners.” Rather, they are brought into a binding collective (religious) ideology--with the exception of the dhimmi condition--and are controlled by highly perfected administrative machinery.

Dr. Yusuf al-Qaradawi writes: “Jihad can be with the pen and the tongue, just as it can be with the sword and the spear. Islamic Jihad is not limited to military efforts only; it extends beyond this, including several means that Muslims need to utilize now more than ever.”[12] (http://www.salemthesoldier.us/jonsson_shariah_economics.html#_edn12)

Economic jihad is a long-term incremental program being waged to Islamize the world. The Medina Charter of 622, the conquests of Muhammad and the early caliphs gave birth for all time (within the Muslim world) of an institution that places the native populations into a permanently handicapped status. The imposition of Shariah law in Iraq and Afghanistan and changing and/or implementing Shariah-compliant laws in the West all contribute to accomplishing the goal of Islamization, as called for by Muhammad.


click here for the rest of the article and a very interesting read! (http://www.salemthesoldier.us/jonsson_shariah_economics.html#_The_Goals_of)





(http://www.salemthesoldier.us/jonsson_shariah_economics.html#_The_Goals_of)



(http://www.salemthesoldier.us/jonsson_shariah_economics.html#_The_Goals_of)

Shariah law is the key to understanding Islamic ideology, government, economics, and social institutions. It is the basis for Islamic fundamentalism’s disagreement with Western thought, and it encapsulates the ideology of Islam that is found in the Qur’an and the Sunnah.[16] Shariah brings Islamic theology down to a person’s everyday life. The objective of Islamic ideology is to have everyone in the world governed by Shariah law. Muslims believe this law expresses the universal will of Allah for humankind. They think they have a holy obligation to impose it upon all the nations of the world.

As noted earlier, Islam is much more than a religion. Muslims themselves describe their faith by saying that Islam is a complete “way of life.” This is certainly a more apt description, because Islam is a religious, social, economic, educational, health, political, and philosophic way of life. In fact, Islam is an all-embracing socio-politico-religious utopian ideology that encompasses every field of human endeavor.

Tribesman
03-07-11, 12:37 PM
The largest religion in the world is the Muslim religion now. There are more Muslims than Roman Catholics.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47P59ha9k9s

CCIP
03-07-11, 12:42 PM
Why do people feel the need to copypaste propaganda writeups on forums? I understand the need for discussion here, and there's been plenty more than we even need about this topic, but geeeeeeeeeeeeeeez :roll:

Feuer Frei!
03-07-11, 07:12 PM
Why do people feel the need to copypaste propaganda writeups on forums? I understand the need for discussion here, and there's been plenty more than we even need about this topic, but geeeeeeeeeeeeeeez :roll:


Propaganda?
Is the material attemting to persuade me or others or to influence the attitudes of myself or others here to a position? Certainly not me that's for sure.
The reason i copy pasted this into the general topics section was exactly the same as when we receive regular updates to current affairs and breaking news.
To invite discussion. To shed some light on a particular subject.
Nothing more nothing less.
It is actually a bit harsh to call this propagandist, i was outlining some facts and views of Jihad, backed up by sources. Outlining the definition of Jihad.
Obviously the feedback has been less than successful in inviting discussions about what other members here thought of this subject.
I shrug my shoulders and move on. Life goes on.
However to call it propaganda material is a bit harsh.

Propaganda is one thing, defining something and displaying a clear definition of something with sources of the base material is something else again.

Madox58
03-07-11, 07:19 PM
I could read the Dune series again and gain as much insight.

nikimcbee
03-07-11, 07:58 PM
Buna akhbar!:woot:

yubba
03-07-11, 09:01 PM
So if they are attacking us, I guess we don't have too feed them then, must be a bummer living in a desert.

Tribesman
03-07-11, 09:07 PM
Propaganda is one thing, defining something and displaying a clear definition of something with sources of the base material is something else again.
Not really ass the sourses in the source has given several definitions often in the same paper and what you posted is bit of a cherrypicking exersize of that which makes it dubious on the factual definitive front.
Plus of course I do like that bit about the biggest reliigion, muslims are muslims, christians are christians, catholics of the roman persuation are just one flavour of a religion called christianity.

Madox58
03-07-11, 09:09 PM
Let them keep the Prehistoric fish guts.
We'll keep the Wheat and such and turn it into fuel.
See who's left after a generation or two.

Rilder
03-08-11, 12:36 AM
Every religion has its bad (by todays standards) parts, I mean just look around the Bible a bit, that book has some pretty bad stuff in it. Hell in my Hellenic Pagan beliefs in one of the stories the Greeks sacrifice a virgin so that the fleet sailing to Troy doesn't hit any problems.

Does this mean that whenever I'm about to go on a trip I go sacrifice some World Of Warcraft players? Of Course not. Just because a holy book has these bad parts doesn't mean that every believer in that religion follows every word to the letter. If they did then the christians would be a lot more violent.

Every religion and even Atheism can be the cause of violence.

Castout
03-08-11, 12:47 AM
So many things to read

But Islam is no threat to anybody's civilization.

And yes you can destroy any religion or try to. It has been done by several countries to specific religions.

Islam may pose bigger problem so big that the cost most probably outweigh the goal.

But why do you need to destroy a certain religion? Islam is no threat to anyone.

Last Most muslim majority countries have a secular state so I don't see any reason that a Muslim country not able to be a democratic.

Hello?! What's been happening in Tunisia, Libya and Egypt and Yemen? They WANT democracy and are sick of dictatorship. These dictators are no Muslims they are secular which mean having a religion without the faith to follow through it.

And Jihad is an overused words. Both in West and Muslim worlds. They are referring to Mohamed arm struggle.



The bottom line is all these Islam phobia or Islam hating are pointless. The problem is not this religion or that religion. The problem lies in individuals. Hardliners both in the West and Islam majority countries neither of which actually spiritual people.


What needs to be dealt with are people. Their fundamentalism and the reasons for that be it poverty, misguided teaching, past abuse or oppression by state, immoralities in personalities, etc. Those apply for both the West and the Muslim majority country.

Most of our problems if not almost all are caused by people. To be more accurate the attitude of that people. The lack of empathy, the selfishness and shallowness of our character, the laziness of our resolve and effort to deal with them. The lack of willingness to see the problem as what it is instead resorting to politicking and adding to the problems. The lack of honesty and chivalry or honor given a situation.

In one word we lack honesty, purposely or not. To ourselves and to other people and that's the cause of almost all of our problem.


You cannot put out the fire in your home by burning other people's home or you cannot fix a car flat tire by messing with its engine.

Betonov
03-08-11, 03:01 AM
But Islam is no threat to anybody's civilization.


The smartest thing I'll hear this week

A western propaganda would be helpful, so the children when they grow up would be more interested in wordly goods and western ''culture'' than the teachings of imams. Just like nobody but old people listen to catcholic priests today

Castout
03-08-11, 03:56 AM
The smartest thing I'll hear this week

A western propaganda would be helpful, so the children when they grow up would be more interested in wordly goods and western ''culture'' than the teachings of imams. Just like nobody but old people listen to catcholic priests today


:DL Well to embrace certain belief or religion is one's personal rights. It should not be bothered with by anyone unless his beliefs violates other people rights to live and live without fear or discrimination. Just because a few people may have acted in the name of certain religion to the harm of another group of people we should not put the labeling that all's guilty thereof. Otherwise we are no better than these terrorists who think just that!

Even atheism in my understanding is also a form of belief. That's why you can happen to meet a fundamentalist atheist who couldn't tolerate anyone who believe in the concept of God. But atheists would not like to hear that this too is a belief. But even that is a belief including their refusal to view it as a belief. That too is a belief. :O:

Heck anyone could believe anything he wanted as long he doesn't put other people at risk. Even politicians could believe whatever they want to believe like being the most talented person on the planet or the most capable or the most charming as long as they do not harm other people. Unfortunately they want to live their fantasies as well.....there lies the problems.

Torvald Von Mansee
03-08-11, 12:52 PM
"PAGING SKYBIRD, YOUR THREAD IS READY."

Rilder
03-08-11, 12:56 PM
Just like nobody but old people listen to catcholic priests today

Kids do sometimes, usually leading to repressed memories. :rotfl2: