View Full Version : Bad Dog, Rest In... whatever.
Put my dog down today.
My son went to pet her, and she growled and managed to cut his finger (must have hit him with the tooth, no bite or he'd have had cuts on both sides (and likely no finger, my son weighs 30 pounds). Son is fine, was just a nick, but it drew blood.
Needless to say, I had her immediately put down, I was OTW before my wife finished kissing his boo boo.
****ing stupid dog, nice 99% of the time, then randomly mean.
Well, animals can be unpredictable, even if they are pets. :hmmm:
Yeah, pisses me off, as she was "my" dog, and other than her occasional "psycho" outbursts, I liked her.
Rockstar
03-06-11, 03:13 PM
It's tuff having to do that and I can understand your fears when it comes to protecting your child. Way too much risk is involved to try and learn dog behavior with children around.
But most dogs are not vicious or mean just because they bite or nip but are simply disciplining or asserting their authority or rank in the pack/family. Scary thing is when a dog disciplines its young they tend to nip the side or face and they do the same with small children.
I have a Dingo and I came to understand the hard way it's the dominate female of that species that determines who stays in the pack. When we brought another weak and sickly dog in the home she wanted to kill it. My wife believe it or not had to step up as Alpha mom. She made it clear in no uncertain terms she was in charge and we have had peace in our home. It's still alot of work sometimes, but worth it.
If you think about getting another dog me thinks there are some published guidelines online to help determine if the puppy will be Alpha, Beta or Omega. I have one who wants to be Alpha has her own agenda and tests our authority from time to time. The other is a most kind, obedient Beta/Omega, the perfect dog for a boy of any age.
If anyone had to be put down as soon as he did his first mistake, there shouldn't be much people alive nowadays in the united states of abnormality.
If anyone had to be put down as soon as he did his first mistake, there shouldn't be much people alive nowadays in the united states of abnormality.
One, it was her first physical mistake. She'd growled before, and I tried to address the problem over the last few years (even had a dog behaviorist come). Growling, then going away, outside, was what she'd done before. Snapping is a death sentence. She outweighs my boy, and all it takes is me not watching for a second. Not worth it.
At least you aren't one of those people who talks to their dog like its sentient, even though I think going out and shooting it is a bit far, but thats my own opinion.
I love dogs, and had it been ME, with no kids, then she'd still be around. All it takes is a couple seconds for a tragedy, though.
I'm the guy who has the 5-figure, paraplegic cat, after all—and I don't like cats.
Armistead
03-06-11, 04:00 PM
Tough call, what breed is it?
Some dogs are more apt to nip, etc...My wife shows Yorkies, sometimes the males will fight, you pick one up during a fight, probably get bit. Even small, they're very protective of food, toys, pens, etc... Very important knowing the breed and finding a correct pet for children.
Personnally, many dogs aren't meant to be around younger kids. I would've tried to find a home more suitable for it at the first growl.
When showing dogs, the judge will run their hands over the dog's testes, it shouldn't provoke a response. If the dog growled or nipped...disqualified that moment. Our best looking male dog just didn't like his balls rubbed and snapped at the judge, so no more showing. Still he, made a great pet and I never felt the need to rub his balls so we get alone fine.
However, if you called in a pro and the problem couldn't be determined that caused this behavior, I would've put it down myself. I wouldn't give it away knowing it could end up hurting someone else, finger today may be a arm tomorrow.
My favorite dog of all time died last year and within a week my 22 year old cat died. I often wonder if they had some connection, because they slept together. The cat seemed stressed when the dog wasn't in their bed, died later...hate cats and will never have another, but that one grew on me.
She was a shar pei. Our previous shar pei was the best dog ever™. Sweet with kids. This dog was a rescue, and we got her before we had kids. Otherwise we'd have gotten a different breed. She's always had some aggression issues which we've tried to work out.
She's been my dog for 9 years, I've given her many chances, and plenty of effort. But she's gotten worse, and as she gets older and sees less well, and loses hearing, the chances of her being "surprised" and attacking increase.
Since the penalty for a failure could literally be the death of a child, there was no choice.
Put my dog down today.
My son went to pet her, and she growled and managed to cut his finger (must have hit him with the tooth, no bite or he'd have had cuts on both sides (and likely no finger, my son weighs 30 pounds). Son is fine, was just a nick, but it drew blood.
Needless to say, I had her immediately put down, I was OTW before my wife finished kissing his boo boo.
****ing stupid dog, nice 99% of the time, then randomly mean.
I like so much the "needless to say" part. :roll:
I can't understand what you're trying to look like giving so much details about your inexplicable behaviour.
Yeah, pisses me off, as she was "my" dog, and other than her occasional "psycho" outbursts, I liked her.
My ass. You've put your dog down in a matter of minutes, and that says all about how you consider an animal.
The dog/master relation is definitely a relation that goes 2 ways. While you (are supposed to) like him a lot for being that sometimes brutal/clumsy/intelligent and kind animal, the dog LOVES you cause you're THE person to him, THE teacher, THE beloved one, THE ONE AND ONLY he would certainly fight for if he had to, basically the one without whom his life wouldn't be what it is. What happened HAS happened because you've not been letting the dog know how things work at home, at least not as much as he needed to understand. Now that you've been making the dog go, why the **** am I wasting my time here, I don't know. Your dog was just there asking for a close and working relationship. I'll just let you alone with your fault, though I'm sure you'll never feel guilty at all.
Basically you're the one and only who failed in your relation with the dog. A dog is innocence, just like any other animal on Earth. So there's no bad dog in the whole world, really : only bad/failing masters feeling better once they feel like they've been "fixing their mistakes" putting their dog down.
We may have had some brief exchanges in here in the past, at least I remember your nickname. But I'm sure we'll never have a single opportunity to speak once again in the future, tater.
"it doesn't work any more the way it's supposed to ? let's remove its batteries, and put it in the garbage". Ah, the american consumer society.
Poor guy.
nikimcbee
03-06-11, 04:11 PM
What kind of dog was she?
Takeda Shingen
03-06-11, 04:13 PM
I like so much the "needless to say" part. :roll:
I can't understand what you're trying to look like giving so much details about your inexplicable behaviour.
My ass. You've put your dog down in a matter of minutes, and that says all about how you consider an animal.
The dog/master is definitely a relation that goes 2 ways. While you (are supposed to) like him a lot for being that sometimes brutal/clumsy/intelligent and kind animal, the dog LOVES you cause you're THE person to him, THE teacher, THE beloved one, THE ONE AND ONLY he would certainly fight for if he had to, basically the one without whom his life wouldn't be what it is. What happened HAS happened because you've not been letting the dog know how things work at home, at least not as much as he needed to understand. Now that you've been making the dog go, why the **** am I wasting my time here now that the dog is gone, I don't know. Your dog was just there asking for a close and working relationship. I'll just let you alone with your fault, though I'm sure you'll never feel guilty at all.
Basically you're the one and only who failed in your relation with the dog. A dog is innocence, just like any other animal on Earth. So there's no bad dog in the whole world, really : only bad/failing masters feeling better once they've repaired .
We may have had some brief exchanges in here in the past, at least I remember your nickname. But I'm sure we'll never have a single opportunity to speak once again in the future, tater.
"it doesn't work any more the way it's supposed to ? let's remove its batteries, and put it in the garbage". Ah, the american consumer society.
Poor guy.
C'mon, man. I agree with your views on animals, especially dogs. My gut reaction is to side with the dog as well, because I know how children can be. However, I am not tater, nor was I present for what happened, so my stance was to stay out of the matter. I'm only posting to say that tater is not a heartless man, and that you should cut him some slack as you weren't there either.
My son went to pet her, she snapped.
That was it. She does that. Sometimes she'd want a tummy rub, other times she'd growl.
I don't give a rat's ass what Alex thinks, frankly. Hurting my child (she drew blood, after all) is a death sentence.
The notion that I treat animals as disposable is absurd. My previous dog I had for 15 years (including some time we bought with intra-lesional chemotherapy). I'd have paid any amount of money to keep her alive indefinitely had it been possible. We spent a small fortune on a cat who is now paraplegic (and still dragging herself around the house). I should add that last week the kids left the door to downstairs open for a second, and the dog ran down and had to be yanked off the cat by my wife (mouth to neck). Ever had a kid not close a door? One mistake, and they'd get to watch their cat get murdered in front of them.
A pet that is dangerous to children?
The pound said they'd look for an owner (no kids), but face it, there are many more dogs at the pound than owners right now. Why not let a dog that is NOT dangerous have a crack at an owner, instead of a known problem diluting the pool.
Child vs. dog. No brainer for me.
Understand why you did it, don't agree with how, to be honest, but it's your decision. The pound would probably have been a better option although to be honest, unless it's a no-kill shelter then chances are she would have been put down anyway, so I guess in a way it was better for her to go with her master than in the hands of strangers.
I was brought up around two collies and a German Shepherd, and there were a couple of times that I did stupid things...like grab a handful of fur. What my mother did was put a child gate in the doorway between the kitchen and the living room, so the dogs stayed in the kitchen and I stayed in the living room, but obviously your situation will vary.
It would probably be best to hold off getting another dog until your son is older, it eliminates the chance of kid/dog misinteraction completely. Rescue cases are always a toughie because you don't know what the dog had been through beforehand and with her getting old and her senses dulling, old instincts come to the fore. Like I said, it probably would have been better to go to a shelter, some of them in the states are quite good with problem animals but alas they are rather few and far between and looking at it realistically, your local shelter probably wouldn't be one of them, and thus she would have spent the rest of her (probably short) life in a pound full of constantly barking dogs, confused and scared, and being even more aggressive because of it and ultimately being destroyed because she was unrehomable.
My son is VERY gentle. He tried to pet her because he loves doggies. Not grab, just a pet. Bam. She's growled before at both kids, immediately knew it was wrong, then skulked outside.
Snapping, however, is an escalation. All it takes is a kid (kids run through the house, after all) falling on her, or god forbid they try to be nice to her. That was pretty much a 50/50 chance of dog rolling over to be nice, or a growl. and yes, she'd had full work ups at the vet to determine if anything was wrong (bloods drawn, the works).
Fobbing her off on the pound I obviously thought about briefly, but I'd feel responsible, and she has growled at both my wife and I many times (she'd growl most times from her crate if we got up in the night, and a really serious, ugly growl (though shar pei sound that way often regardless cause they have fat faces)).
Armistead
03-06-11, 04:45 PM
Most pounds or animal adoption agencies would do the same. If they bring in any dog that shows any aggresion, if they can't resolve it being 100% sure, dog is put down. Any dog that growls for no obvious reason when being petted, that dog would have to go.
You did right by not taking it to the pound, wouldn't be fair to the owner and think if it got through and later turned and seriously hurt someone....
Obvious, you love animals and I'm sure the loss hurts just the same.
My son is VERY gentle. He tried to pet her because he loves doggies. Not grab, just a pet. Bam. She's growled before at both kids, immediately knew it was wrong, then skulked outside.
Snapping, however, is an escalation. All it takes is a kid (kids run through the house, after all) falling on her, or god forbid they try to be nice to her. That was pretty much a 50/50 chance of dog rolling over to be nice, or a growl. and yes, she'd had full work ups at the vet to determine if anything was wrong (bloods drawn, the works).
Fobbing her off on the pound I obviously thought about briefly, but I'd feel responsible, and she has growled at both my wife and I many times (she'd growl most times from her crate if we got up in the night, and a really serious, ugly growl (though shar pei sound that way often regardless cause they have fat faces)).
You might well find if they did an autospy that she had cancer or some form of internal problem for that kind of personality degeneration. My mother worked in animal welfare for...well...most of her life, and she came across a dog I do believe it was who was as sweet as a pie, good with kids and everything until one day it turned around and darn near took someones face off. After it was put down, they did an autopsy and found it was riddled with cancer and there was a swelling on the brain, so it could be a similar occurance.
EDIT: Read the goddamn post Oberon. Still, even with bloods and things like that, some vets can still miss cancer. Our last dog was an example of that... But, at least whatever troubles she had, she is out of them now, and she had nine years of not being in a shelter. I don't know what the average lifespan of a Shar-pei is, but nine years old in any dog is a reasonable age.
Yeah, they're doing that to check (the vet agreed, BTW, or she'd not have been put down). They also have to check for rabies even though she's current on all medical stuff of course.
She'd had aggression issues the whole time. We were the 4th house (the rescue lady had tried 3 others) she lived in, all that before she was 1. We solved her food bowl aggression literally by hand-feeding her kibble out of our palms for a few months (both meals, every day). The "random" aggression we just never figured out. Real Jekyll and Hyde behavior. Sometimes kids would tug on her the way kids do (mine only grabbed her (nylon) collar) and she'd be sweet, other times you look at her funny and she sounded like a pit bull. Thought about an empirical treatment with psyche drugs, actually, talked briefly about it at the vet last week at her checkup about doggie prozac.
Shar pei are typically listed as 8-10 years. Last one we had made it 15.
AVGWarhawk
03-06-11, 05:00 PM
We had an Irish Setter when I was a kid. Very nice dog. Great temperament. Always friendly with everyone. One day a patient of my dads (had a practice off our house) was walking up the drive and the dog reared up and went for her throat. Out of the blue. Nothing provoked the attack. Dog was put down. It is to my understanding that some breeds over the years were bred for thinner skulls resulting in brain issue. Irish Setters no exception.
There is really nothing to stop a dog that feels he is the alpha male. Growling and biting anything in the vicinity is ok in his book. Kids included. It is only a matter of time. One day I went to work with my dad in the ER. A young girl (4 years old) was bitten in the head by the family doberman. Bite wound went right to the skull. Plastic surgeon was called in to suture the wounds in hopes to reducing the scaring of the face. Kid did not provoke this dog. Again, alpha male syndrom. Dobermans also bred for smaller sleek heads.
Some dogs you are just not going to reach no matter how much you work with them.
Sorry to hear this had to happen.
Gargamel
03-06-11, 05:00 PM
Tater, my condolences. I can't imagine what I'm going to go through when I have to put mine down (or watch her die) in the near future, as she's getting old (11 this year).
I think you made the right decision. You've tried to adjust her behavior in the past, and it seems it was just senility setting in. There's no way she would have done any better in a shelter, they would have done the same within a few weeks. Nobody would have re-rescued her, not with her prognosis.
:cry:
We had an Irish Setter when I was a kid. Very nice dog. Great temperament. Always friendly with everyone. One day a patient of my dads (had a practice off our house) was walking up the drive and the dog reared up and went for her throat. Out of the blue. Nothing provoked the attack. Dog was put down. It is to my understanding that some breeds over the years were bred for thinner skulls resulting in brain issue. Irish Setters no exception.
There is really nothing to stop a dog that feels he is the alpha male. Growling and biting anything in the vicinity is ok in his book. Kids included. It is only a matter of time. One day I went to work with my dad in the ER. A young girl (4 years old) was bitten in the head by the family doberman. Bite wound went right to the skull. Plastic surgeon was called in to suture the wounds in hopes to reducing the scaring of the face. Kid did not provoke this dog. Again, alpha male syndrom. Dobermans also bred for smaller sleek heads.
Some dogs you are just not going to reach no matter how much you work with them.
Sorry to hear this had to happen.
Yeah.
I posted in a matter of fact way, because I literally just came home from the vet. If I didn't love the stupid, crazy dog she'd not have made it 9 years. Trouble is that she never fully grasped that she wasn't 2d in line to ME, but last in line to the entire family. Heck, she'd still growl at me at night. Sometimes loudly growling as I told her to go to bed (which is all I'd have to do fo her to get in her crate, tell her to "go to your bed.").
The reality is that in a pack of dogs, growling and nipping are "legitimate" forms of communication. Dog A comes near Dog B who doesn't want to be bothered. Dog B growls, or even nips. Dog A, understanding "the rules" either fights Dog B and wins, or licks his wounds and realizes B is his boss. A nick of a cut is no big deal in the dog world, it's SOP, but it could seriously hurt (or kill) a kid.
There is really nothing to stop a dog that feels he is the alpha male.
Well...
Our German Shepherd was getting a bit above himself for a while, trying to make himself the alpha male...so Mum grabbed him one day, wrestled him to the ground on his back, pinned him down, grabbed the area around his neck with her teeth and growled at him.
He stopped trying to be the Alpha male after that... :03::haha:
Not an approach that I'd recommend for everyone though... :hmmm:
I did that a few times with my dog, actually.
sharkbit
03-06-11, 05:24 PM
That's too bad. Why run the risk of a tragedy in the future. It was best to get rid of the dog one way or the other.
Personally, I'm not sure if I would have had the dog put down, but I definitely would have gotten rid of it one way or the other. I just hope I'm never faced with that situation.
krashkart
03-06-11, 05:28 PM
Well...
Our German Shepherd was getting a bit above himself for a while, trying to make himself the alpha male...so Mum grabbed him one day, wrestled him to the ground on his back, pinned him down, grabbed the area around his neck with her teeth and growled at him.
He stopped trying to be the Alpha male after that... :03::haha:
Not an approach that I'd recommend for everyone though... :hmmm:
That must have been a sight. :har:
That must have been a sight. :har:
She's never been one for convention, I'll give her that. Wouldn't be without her though, her or the furry and feathered friends I was brought up with.
We're not going to get another puppy til after spring break. The next 2 weeks will be the longest I've not had at least 1 dog for over 30 years (we've typically had doggy overlap).
Not a shar pei. They tend to be "one person dogs" according to many people we've talked to. They are closely related to chow chows, and are also "snappy." Again, we'd might not have picked her with kids—but we rescued her before we had kids. OTOH, our previous shar pei was a saint so we might have anyway (and remarkably smart for a shar pei—but she was co-dog with border collies). Little kids could drag her by the face and she'd just look at us with a "please make this stop" look, so we were spoiled.
My border collies simply did what they were told, and you'd not need to tell them too many times before it was their new way of life (could leave them loose in an open top off jeep in the grocery store parking lot, and they'd no so much as bark or leave the vehicle).
Castout
03-06-11, 06:06 PM
At least you aren't one of those people who talks to their dog like its sentient,
:shifty:
I do that all the time even calling my dog darling many times.
It's therapeutic...you know?
Make no mistake a dog can think at least to a degree and it could feel. Well it feels hunger right or scared or angry or cocky or complaining.
Takeda Shingen
03-06-11, 06:08 PM
:shifty:
I do that all the time even calling my dog darling many times.
It's therapeutic...you know?
I do too.
Rockstar
03-06-11, 06:20 PM
She couldn't understand she wasn't second to you was because nobody but you confronted her about it. Disciplining a dog and a human are very different.
Dad can discipline the child for disobeying the mother and that child will learn not to disobey mom. But with a dog, especially one with alpha tendency, the whole pack (family) must be involved with establishing the pack hierarchy. Even our beta when left to his own devices will attempt to fill the role of leader when we get lax, but fortunately will gladly submit easily to anyone's authority when they step up.
Training an alpha dog is risky especially the older ones set in their ways, they may at anytime challenge authority, even yours.
The older my Dingo gets the more primitive she got. As a pup she was great with children in a human sense of the term. Now, a dominant female she expects discipline in the ranks. Unless I'm with her I don't let children around her because, I don't trust the little rugrats to behave. She takes some special handling for sure but I wouldn't trade her in for anything. She's needy, protective, an excellent hunter scavenger and there is no better dog to have with you in the woods, nothing ever sneaks up on our family I'll tell you that! :) What a sight to see when she is out in the sticks. I'm sure you can tell I'm proud of my girl. :D
Sounds like from what I've read you had an elderly high maintenance alpha female. Not a good thing to have in the house with small children unless everyone is involved. Just by snapping at your child just this once, I doubt you'd ever be relaxed no matter how much the rest of the family got involved.
The decision though sad, was yours and your Vet as you knew the circumstance and the dog better than anyone here.
Hope can find another companion for your family that is less maintenance and will cause less anxiety and worry.
Growler
03-06-11, 06:35 PM
Hope can find another companion for your family that is less maintenance and will cause less anxiety and worry.
In my experience, beagles are great with kids, especially if you can start 'em as pups. Once they get over their "I'm-going-to-chew-every-shoe-in-sight" phase, they're terrific guardians for kids and surprisingly gentle, all of which without getting so big that you'd worry about them accidentally falling on a little one. And there's no better "emergency" alarm than a beagle's distinctive bark.
frau kaleun
03-06-11, 07:20 PM
Well...
Our German Shepherd was getting a bit above himself for a while, trying to make himself the alpha male...so Mum grabbed him one day, wrestled him to the ground on his back, pinned him down, grabbed the area around his neck with her teeth and growled at him.
He stopped trying to be the Alpha male after that... :03::haha:
Not an approach that I'd recommend for everyone though... :hmmm:
The more you talk about your mum, the more I like her. :D
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