A rather unusual behaviour

[commandosolo2009]

So I decided to run SH4 again after being dismayed by Crysis 2 demo. I decided to go from 1943, and here I am, an unaware taskforce pops up and I decide to shadow it merely rimming it to my SJ, so I did. I race for an intercept after making positively sure they didnt change course based on my presence, and so I did. 2 hours later of continual radar depths and a handful of Xs on the map, they show up right where I wanted them. A single Large Old Passenger carrier guarded by 5 destroyers is on scope. I tweaked my periscope zoom file to 1,8x powers respectively. So, I pop for a look and identify him then obtain his speed and stadimeter just gives these ever changing speed calculations, so I decide to go for visual bearing over distance and so I did. Both are fubar!! Practically, I decided to use the sonar for last minute rangefinding and kaboom!!! NOTHING!! 6 good mark 14s fired and only one does the kill.

The question is, is stock stadimeter wrong? And if so, what part of the waterline should I aim at? and if the mast height gives false readouts, could I use something else, like perhaps his smokestack? Another question, when I ping, and get an echo, is that DDs trying to find me out? Also, I've spaced out to 4100 meters which is the fast speed range on the Mark 14's although I'm pretty sure the ship's course was inside the range, so I kept firing and they all wind up missing and dud (and by dud, I mean end-of-the-run dud). What the heck is wrong with this game?

And for AOB, I figured since I'm coming up at an exact perpendicular to their course, I figured I should prepare my own AOB guide, just like Dick O'Kane did..

So, I did, here it is:


BRG PRT/STB --> AOB based on a 90 degree AOB at BG 0 at any range..

300/60--> 27
305/55--> 29
310/50--> 40
315/45--> 41
320/40--> 47
325/35--> 51
330/30--> 59
335/25--> 62
340/20--> 68
345/15--> 71
350/10--> 79
355/05--> 83
360/00--> 90

and I kept monitoring the guy since 7 kms away and he still gave all sorts of speed changes... And so, what is the detection limit of the enemy to your periscope when you're submerged and have not been detected?

Before you even mention it, No! He wasnt zigging, nor his DEs busy, they were aimlessly fooling around eachother.. So what the eff is the problem?

FYI, I'm playing stock 1.5 on 100% difficulty and its because of my laptop that I cant load mods on..

An important aspect of these trials, was that either stadimeter is wrong, or I'm timing too much..

Sometime, his speeds varied from 12, 13, and 14 knots all the way upto 40 even 60 kts!!! Unbelievable!!!:x

[Armistead]

I don't know about the stock stad, seemed to work fine as I recall when I used it.

The return echo is your return ping, that's how you measure distance. You send a ping, the distance wheel spins, when you get the return ping, you click that second to send. Obvious a longer explanation, sound travels, hits, return, thats calculated into range by simply hitting send when you get the return. Course it can alert every escort around to your presence.

[commandosolo2009]

ok, but when should I actually use the ping? I use it just before firing. Maybe its the radar? Having read his book, he mentions direction finders, and so, is it also means of being detected?

[TorpX]

Commando:

First, about the stadimeter, the rec. manual mast hts. are wrong in some cases. I can't tell you exactly which ones, but CapnScurvy has worked on fixes for exactly this problem. BTW, this is also true in RFB, as the RFB team decided to consider it a 'fog of war' element.

If you are obtaining your speeds from the 'stopwatch' feature in the game TDC (right dial), know that it is very sensitive to timing and will often give screwy results for short intervals.

As far as the Aob is concerned, your table seems to be in error.

if you are headed N, target headed E, 90 deg. track:

300 brg..............Aob 30
305......................... 35
310..........................40
315..........................45
320..........................50
325..........................55
330..........................60
335..........................65
340..........................70
345..........................75
350..........................80
355..........................85
000..........................90

Remember the three angles in your firing solution triangle, Aob, lead angle (bearing angle), and track angle, must add up to 180 deg.

Also, consider if your track angle is really 90 or is it estimated to be 90 deg. Track angle is usually computed from Aob estimates, and thus is subject to error. Estimating Aob is tricky, and was considered to be a hard to achieve and perishable skill. This is not merely my opinion, but comes from USN training manuals. Let me know if this helps. :)

[commandosolo2009]

Commando:

First, about the stadimeter, the rec. manual mast hts. are wrong in some cases. I can't tell you exactly which ones, but CapnScurvy has worked on fixes for exactly this problem. BTW, this is also true in RFB, as the RFB team decided to consider it a 'fog of war' element.

If you are obtaining your speeds from the 'stopwatch' feature in the game TDC (right dial), know that it is very sensitive to timing and will often give screwy results for short intervals.

As far as the Aob is concerned, your table seems to be in error.

if you are headed N, target headed E, 90 deg. track:

300 brg..............Aob 30
305......................... 35
310..........................40
315..........................45
320..........................50
325..........................55
330..........................60
335..........................65
340..........................70
345..........................75
350..........................80
355..........................85
000..........................90

Remember the three angles in your firing solution triangle, Aob, lead angle (bearing angle), and track angle, must add up to 180 deg.

Also, consider if your track angle is really 90 or is it estimated to be 90 deg. Track angle is usually computed from Aob estimates, and thus is subject to error. Estimating Aob is tricky, and was considered to be a hard to achieve and perishable skill. This is not merely my opinion, but comes from USN training manuals. Let me know if this helps. :)


Thanks to your feedback TorpX:

Actually, your bearings and AOB values are ideal, and I will try them. But to make all of us happy, I just replayed the career from the wait point.

I think it maybe the periscope optics I screwed up (instead of 1 and 6 for attack, I made it 1 and 8 X zoom) maybe this comes to my favourite in maintaining distance, but clearly as I decided to switch to observation scope (untouched) I did a 6/6 shot kill. Then I took a quick peek and saw him cracked in half :rock:..

The other modification, was using the fixed line speed calculation method. I decided to do so in the last minute before firing since the stadimeter as you mentioned is busted. Then I got it right to the last estimate which was 13 kts. Fired in 5 second increments, and all 6 scored. :salute:


I guess I'll try your AOB on my next attack.. Worth mentioning that I had 10 eels left and I decided to hump it all the way to Midway that fuel was gone about 88 kms west of the atoll... Thank God I had charged the batteries... Imagine who popped up on my way to Midway.. A 7 Carrier taskforce... :rock::rock:

I was in the middle, that one of the carriers had to swerve hard to avoid ramming me.. Wish I had external on, would have made a great cinematic :arrgh!:

[TorpX]

Thanks to your feedback TorpX:

Actually, your bearings and AOB values are ideal, and I will try them. But to make all of us happy, I just replayed the career from the wait point.


Happy to help.

I replayed an attack for the same reason. I'd missed with 4 torpedos and it really bothered me. On paper it seemed like I had it nailed. I first thought I had set the fish too deep. Replayed it a half a dozen times trying to figure it out. Turns out, it was on a course, probably 20 deg. off what I thought it was. This put it about 300 or 400 yds out of range..............:damn:
If I was better at estimating Aob, I would have caught it.

I think it maybe the periscope optics I screwed up (instead of 1 and 6 for attack, I made it 1 and 8 X zoom) maybe this comes to my favourite in maintaining distance, but clearly as I decided to switch to observation scope (untouched) I did a 6/6 shot kill. Then I took a quick peek and saw him cracked in half :rock:..


I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but I believe the periscope is supposed to have a 1.5x and 6x zoom. The TBT, 7x. Maybe it's different in stock. This is something CapnScurvy has been working on (getting the field of view right). The stadimeter should be as accurate as the telemeter marks. In either case you need to know the correct mast height. BTW, someone made a program that can retrieve the data the game uses for the ships.

The other modification, was using the fixed line speed calculation method. I decided to do so in the last minute before firing since the stadimeter as you mentioned is busted. Then I got it right to the last estimate which was 13 kts. Fired in 5 second increments, and all 6 scored. :salute:


With the fixed line method, you are using the ship length. I take it you are getting this from the rec. manual? If so, keep in mind, some of these figures will also be in error.

[commandosolo2009]

Happy to help.

I replayed an attack for the same reason. I'd missed with 4 torpedos and it really bothered me. On paper it seemed like I had it nailed. I first thought I had set the fish too deep. Replayed it a half a dozen times trying to figure it out. Turns out, it was on a course, probably 20 deg. off what I thought it was. This put it about 300 or 400 yds out of range..............:damn:
If I was better at estimating Aob, I would have caught it.
I'm not sure if I understand you correctly, but I believe the periscope is supposed to have a 1.5x and 6x zoom. The TBT, 7x. Maybe it's different in stock. This is something CapnScurvy has been working on (getting the field of view right). The stadimeter should be as accurate as the telemeter marks. In either case you need to know the correct mast height. BTW, someone made a program that can retrieve the data the game uses for the ships.
With the fixed line method, you are using the ship length. I take it you are getting this from the rec. manual? If so, keep in mind, some of these figures will also be in error.


Thanks dude! I think its the course too. And you were right about the ship recog manual. I think one exclusion is the Large Old Passenger Carrier :salute: