Thank you for your support.

[Rockstar]

For all the those that jumped on the band wagon actually believing the slogans, catch phrases and buzz words spewing out form the protesters and media in the middle east. They thank each and everyone of us for our support:salute: and ignorance :shucks: and wish us to remain so :yeah:. Because very soon now we are going to hear how Islam will bring order and peace to the region and world :woot:.

"The Obama administration is preparing for the prospect that Islamist governments will take hold in North Africa and the Middle East, acknowledging that the popular revolutions there will bring a more religious cast to the region's politics."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2011/03/03/AR2011030305531_pf.html

[the_tyrant]

Religious democracy vs secular tyranny

well, you know what side I'm on:D

[CCIP]

Religious democracy vs secular tyranny

well, you know what side I'm on:D

Haha.

But indeed, if that's what the choice came down to, is that really a choice?
IMO the status quo was rotten. What will follow may not be what we want or need, but it is necessary or at least inevitable. "Our" only way out of that is nothing short of blatant colonial war, subjugation and/or genocide of some sort. Is that what you'd like to see instead? Is that a price you're willing to pay to maintain the west's liberty and justice - but wait, that wouldn't be liberty and justice at all anymore...

Fundamentally, as much as I disagree with Islamists, I think the "our sonofabitch" doctrine will never work anywhere, and whatever their motivations, the Arabs are right to accuse us of it. We've failed them before and turned a blind eye when we could've done something to change things positively for them instead of just grabbing bits and pieces of resources and political favour. So honestly, I can't see this any way except this: Islamist regimes are 'our' 'just' punishment here. But it's still not too late to try and exert some sort of positive influence and dampen this possible threat yet.

[Castout]

Rockstar is lost. You just live in fear.

Fear is the smallest prison a man could make to himself.


Fake democracy is often thought as secular tyranny when it is actually a Religious tyranny, the object of worship being the tyrant and his family.

Either you worship the tyrant or you become potential victim.



Religious democracy is actually simply a religious tyranny too with the object of worship the God as defined by the regime with their interpretation right or wrong.



People get confused because they thought object of worship must be God when in reality it easily becomes man, money, ideas or anything else as simple as desires and ego.]



What's up with the Islam phobic? You really think that the majority of people who take to the street must want a religious state?
The truth is democracy allows the free dissemination of ideas and religious parties will surely come out but heck Germany has Christian parties(at least in names). Ultimately the people in a country have the rights to go whichever way they believe is best for them. Now tyranny is never a representation of any society but real democracy put into mechanism the will of the people to decide who and what kind of policies they want best.
If you cannot tolerate difference of honest opinions or views then why must other people me including must offer to your own views. Imo Islamic based parties are okay as long as they are not committed to establishing religious tyranny or killing innocents and are committed to protecting the minorities rights. In the end it's about civil rights and the respecting of human rights none of which is available in a tyranny. People are simply slaves under a tyrannical regime. Make no mistake about that. Perception to the contrary is just an illusion because men are unable to follow their God given conscience under such regime.

The world doesn't revolve around any country I'm afraid including United States of America or any other country.

[CCIP]

Fear is the smallest prison a man could make to himself.
:yep:

Honestly, at the end of the day, the fear-mongering won't get us anywhere. It forces people to deal with the world as it is imagined in their worst fears, not as it actually is. And that's just a waste of precious time and opportunity to do something good about it, instead of arm self to the teeth and wait for the supposedly-inevitable onslaught.

[Buddahaid]

People get confused because they thought object of worship must be God when in reality it easily becomes man, money, ideas or anything else as simple as desires and ego

"I'm sick and tired if your ism-schism games, die and go to heaven in Jesus' name....." :arrgh!:

[krashkart]

It will be very interesting to see what comes of all of this. :hmmm:


:yep:

Honestly, at the end of the day, the fear-mongering won't get us anywhere. It forces people to deal with the world as it is imagined in their worst fears, not as it actually is. And that's just a waste of precious time and opportunity to do something good about it, instead of arm self to the teeth and wait for the supposedly-inevitable onslaught.

Couldn't agree with you more. In less delicate terms, fear can make us stupid and blind; and certain people have no problem with manipulating that fear to their own advantage.

[Castout]

:yep:

Honestly, at the end of the day, the fear-mongering won't get us anywhere. It forces people to deal with the world as it is imagined in their worst fears, not as it actually is. And that's just a waste of precious time and opportunity to do something good about it,

:up::up::up::up::up:


"I'm sick and tired if your ism-schism games, die and go to heaven in Jesus' name....." :arrgh!:


EDIT



Nah you're just afraid....because my comments ring a bell of truth down there however small .

And i don't appreciate your death threat even if you meant it as a joke surely such words are inappropriate. And just what schism and what games.
I wasn't trying to convince anyone and it's certainly not games because they are real I would like to humiliate the ways of certain people in power and the brutality of their conduct and the stupidity of their conviction and methods. If I were like them then what point would I prove so I'm not like these people. I never lie. My witnessing is to let those people know how low they've become how stupid and humiliating their ways are. If you do not like my witnessing then simply don't read them. I don't expect anything from anyone. I'm merely boasting about God and that's actually no sin.

I hope the moderator would step in not to my defense but to prevent such exchange of inappropriate forum conduct. It's not because I'm offended but because to not inform the mod you would think I'm a weak person. Glad to know that you're sick and tired. Thank you. That's an encouragement to me.


Well after I was told it's Bob MArley quote and read the full lyrics :oops:

:damn:

[Castout]

Do you realize the psychology behind tyranny? That's to put fear into the hearts of people ironically because the leader are so afraid of the possibility of the people revolting to his authority.

It's power based on fear because the people in power are fearful of their very own people. So thus these tyrants hope to instill greater fear than the fear which they are feeling.

Whereas in civilized country the rule of law becomes their social control tool under tyranny fear is their social control tool. This results in all kind of abuses.

Now if some people would rather have the certainty of peace at the cost of these foreign people living under oppression and burden of slavery ripped from the dignity of being a human being then they should suck their asses when those people decided enough is enough. Stupidity will always be punished in this life or the next by men or the almighty God.

How would you feel if your own country was ruled by a dictator?! The people owe him nothing yet the dictator acted as if he had built everything by hands stone by stone, penny by penny all by himself and that he owned everybody living under his rule. If you think it's nothing try to imagine losing your life or your livelihood or your brother, sister, mother, father, uncle for whimsical reason such as not smiling when seeing this self proclaimed leader on television.

If civilized world does nothing to help the aspiration of people to live in civility as dignified human being then I must question the civility of such people.

The more I see it now the more I'm convinced that politics should not be handed to the worst kind of people in society to thugs or corrupt bureaucrats or to greedy and narcissistic psychologically challenged people.

If the civilized world believes that in some world those with the most guns should have the right to rule then I must say that it's best to get a gun and start killing each other to prevent whoever that's going to win. To do otherwise is not worth living the time here on life.

The universality of human values and his God given rights make it so that if a single human being is considered expendable then the same applies to every other man with impartiality. It's not negotiable. If this is not so in practice it is because the difference in powers and influence involved but those are mere illusions because given the the chance and possibility it will be proven wrong. That is to say that if one single human being is expendable then whoever agrees lives with the rule of the jungle. And if this is a jungle then why bother with all the civility. Form groups, get guns, and seek your own justice.

[Tribesman]

Honestly, at the end of the day, the fear-mongering won't get us anywhere. It forces people to deal with the world as it is imagined in their worst fears, not as it actually is.
Indeed. When you actually read the article with all its possibly, maybe, ifs and buts you do wonder if Rockstar has any point at all.

I do like the bit that says there is a possibility that they might even introduce something in the future which may or may not be bad without realising that it has already been there for years

[MH]

:yep:

Honestly, at the end of the day, the fear-mongering won't get us anywhere. It forces people to deal with the world as it is imagined in their worst fears, not as it actually is. And that's just a waste of precious time and opportunity to do something good about it, instead of arm self to the teeth and wait for the supposedly-inevitable onslaught.

To make peace you have to be armed to the teeth so to make the fight not worth it.
There is nothing wrong about looking at the worst case scenario.
It has nothing to do with spreading fear it has to do with facing reality with All possible outcomes.
Israelis have every good reason to consider the worst options and prepare for them as the country lies in between all this mess that is happening right now.
For us is not some interesting event that takes place on other side of the globe.Its a revolution with which we will have to live with as well.
So really turning every doubt into some islamophobic paranoia is like refusal to face the other side of the coin.
Israels are hoping to live with Arabs in peace while arming to the teeth because thats what the reality of middle east toughed us.
We can ask ourselves if it worth it or not but thats diffrent story.
Israelis only hope is that Arabs after going through all this turmoil will finely emerge as a balanced society.
Question is will they have to go throu all the stages as Europeans did in the past or there is a shortcut.

[Tribesman]

To make peace you have to be armed to the teeth so to make the fight not worth it.

So you are in favour of Iranian arms shipments then.

[MH]

So you are in favour of Iranian arms shipments then.

Im in favor of all start drinking beer smoke pot and lisning to Ozzy.
A true end of the world lol

[Rockstar]

Fear? Not really, just pointing out the direction these protests you support are going. Since it seems Islam and Shria law is what you supporting can you tell me how you think it will make the world a better place?

As we see allied countries fall to Islamic religious zealots, what happens in Iran? We still have troops there you know. What happens to Israel? Where does the fleet and aircraft go when the ports and airspace close down?

Keep supporting your freedom fighters and watch the Saudis, Bahrain and others fall like dominoes. All in the name of freedom and democracy.

[CCIP]

What's with this "you're against them or you're with them" logic? What's the alternative, then?

As I see it, this is advocacy for one of two things:
1) Isolating self from large part of the outside world and arming self to teeth, preparing for 'inevitable' conflict.
2) Action - we have a 'final solution' of sorts against Islam.

Again, are those two really even options? This is exactly the cause of the "our sonofabitch" doctrine that, in many ways, has brought us here. I don't care what name or cause you use to justify it, if you prop up unjust and undemocratic regimes, people will eventually rise up and you'll get burned as a result.

I'm not saying that some of the current support and enthusiasm isn't misguided - of course it is! Of course it's not all pretty flowers and democracy and world peace! As with any and every revolution, there will be an ugly morning after and possibly uglier swing back to the other extreme.

On the other hand what do you want? Again, where does your logic lead? I'm only seeing the above-listed options 1) and 2), and that doesn't tell me a whole lot of good about where you stand. If you genuinely believe in those, then hey, you probably deserve whatever Sharia says should happen to you.

[Oberon]

"I'm sick and tired if your ism-schism games, die and go to heaven in Jesus' name....." :arrgh!:

"You can fool some people some time, but you can't fool all the people all the time..." :03:

[MH]

What's with this "you're against them or you're with them" logic? What's the alternative, then?

As I see it, this is advocacy for one of two things:
1) Isolating self from large part of the outside world and arming self to teeth, preparing for 'inevitable' conflict.
2) Action - we have a 'final solution' of sorts against Islam.

Again, are those two really even options? This is exactly the cause of the "our sonofabitch" doctrine that, in many ways, has brought us here. I don't care what name or cause you use to justify it, if you prop up unjust and undemocratic regimes, people will eventually rise up and you'll get burned as a result.

I'm not saying that some of the current support and enthusiasm isn't misguided - of course it is! Of course it's not all pretty flowers and democracy and world peace! As with any and every revolution, there will be an ugly morning after and possibly uglier swing back to the other extreme.

On the other hand what do you want? Again, where does your logic lead? I'm only seeing the above-listed options 1) and 2), and that doesn't tell me a whole lot of good about where you stand. If you genuinely believe in those, then hey, you probably deserve whatever Sharia says should happen to you.

How did you ever came to that conclusions i have really no idea.
Who is talking about final solution?
Do Israeli want to isolate them selves from rest of the world?
No we don't-quite opposite.
Should we do everything just to please international community when it violates our own interest?
Is International Community working for its interests or Israeli interests?

We don't mind to be isolated from Arabs as long as we don't need to fight them.
To achieve this we need to be armed so that fighting us would not be valable option.
From my point of view Arabs can jump from radical communism to radical Islam throu dictatorship and maybe some day ending with democracy as long as they don't fight us.
Israeli doctrine doesn't include domination of ME.
Israeli want to be simply accepted here as another nation or not being screwed with from position of power.

I hope that at list Egypt will find way toward democracy since this is a country that has cultural base for that.
Lets see what will happen.

[Tribesman]

Rockstar, you really are lost, your arguement makes no sense whatsoever.

If the Saudi regime falls then Saudi becomes a country with sharia law run by religious zealots.....have you visited the planet earth as Saudi is a country run by religious zealots and has sharia law?

Hey come to think of it Libya has sharia too as does Egypt as does Bahrain...better watch out or the dominoes will fall and those countries will end up with ...errr.....something they already have:doh:

[Rockstar]

Yes but Saudi fears the other zealots trying to take over you nut. Why do you think we were allowed to use their land for bases in Iran war? You really believe it was for oil or WMD? We were involved in a religious/sunni-shia tribal war on their behalf IMO. As it is we get a certain amount of support from them oil, airbases, staging areas, etc, etc. Same with Bahrain and believe it or not even Libya in that it hasn't been overtly hostile. If these kingdoms fall to the protesters you support, we loose, Israel becomes even more isolated.

So I just wanted to pass on my sincerest thanks to you on their behalf for supporting your so called freedom fighters.

[Tribesman]

Yes but Saudi fears the other zealots trying to take over you nut. Why do you think we were allowed to use their land for bases in Iran war? You really believe it was for oil or WMD? We were involved in a religious/sunni-shia tribal war on their behalf IMO. As it is we get a certain amount of support from them oil, airbases, staging areas, etc, etc. Same with Bahrain and believe it or not even Libya in that it hasn't been overtly hostile. If these kingdoms fall to the protesters you support, we loose, Israel becomes even more isolated.


That amazingly makes even less sense than your post that made no sense.
Rockstar you truly have lost the plot.

[joea]

That amazingly makes even less sense than your post that made no sense.
Rockstar you truly have lost the plot.
+1 Sad really.:nope:

[AngusJS]

Should we do everything just to please international community when it violates our own interest?When it concerns human rights, yes.

Israeli want to be simply accepted here as another nation or not being screwed with from position of power.So you're a bit like the Palestinians in that regard?