Frankfurt Airport shooting

[papa_smurf]

Two people have died after a gunman opened fire on a bus carrying American soldiers at Frankfurt Airport, police say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12621832


Source: BBC News 02/03/11 16:37

[Growler]

Reports so far a US serviceman and the bus driver are known casualties, with at least two others seriously wounded.

Tough day for USAREUR.

[tater]

All the news stories say he is from Kosovo...

probably a Kosovarian Quaker, I bet.

[Gammelpreusse]

That happened about 10 kilometers from where I live. Noticed nothing, though.

However, my deepest condolences to the families and friends of those two airmen. I hope everything surrounding this will be cleared up really fast.

[Betonov]

All the news stories say he is from Kosovo...

probably a Kosovarian Quaker, I bet.

Strange, US have been the Kosovo's biggest ally when it came to their independence.
Unless he's a Serb from kosovo, now they have a handful of grudges

[Skybird]

Strange, US have been the Kosovo's biggest ally when it came to their independence.
Unless he's a Serb from kosovo, now they have a handful of grudges
Not very strange at all. Back then the ethnic structure of Kosovo was totally different. During and after the war many Albanians moved into Kosovo, turning it from a dominantly Serbian-orthodox-christian province run by the Serbian nationalists in Belgrade into an Albanian-Muslim place run by the Albanian-Kosovarian mafia, with a gangster as head of government.

But he has been democratically elected, so there must be something positive in all this. :88)

[Tribesman]

Not very strange at all. Back then the ethnic structure of Kosovo was totally different. During and after the war many Albanians moved into Kosovo, turning it from a dominantly Serbian-orthodox-christian province run by the Serbian nationalists in Belgrade into an Albanian-Muslim place run by the Albanian-Kosovarian mafia, with a gangster as head of government.


Even on something so simple skybird has trouble with truth.
Minority rule in the form of Serb minority dominance was watered down decades ago, the attempt to move in settlers and re introduce minority rule was the spark in the 80's which led the other yugoslav states to make their break from the serbs.


But to the topic, bad news, another murdering scumbag.
If he is a christian from north portion of the city of Mitrovica or a muslim from south Mitrovika he is still just a murdering scumbag.

[Freiwillige]

The Article on Yahoo says that he was a devoted Muslim quoting his parents.

Some reader post at the bottom of the story brought up the fact that they had to say he was Muslim in the story but if he was Christian it would never be brought up. She couldn't understand why they pointed his religion out.

Well if his religion is the motive than that is a valid part of the story, And we all know it was.:yep:

[Jimbuna]

Regardless of race, colour, creed, religion or anything else for that matter....a murderer is a murderer.

My sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims.

[Bubblehead1980]

Another follower of an archaic, backwater ideology murders men wearing a uniform worth more than his pathetic life.Just sad they were not able to shoot him back....

[Tribesman]

Another follower of an archaic, backwater ideology
His profile(if it is indeed him) puts him as a flag waving nationalist who loves his country

[tater]

His profile(if it is indeed him) puts him as a flag waving nationalist who loves his country

He didn't tell a national slogan when he shot, he yelled "Allahu Akbhar."

And the existence of his country separate from Serbia has a lot to do with the guys he attacked.

But by all means, keep giving a pass to Islamists.

[Tribesman]

He didn't tell a national slogan when he shot
Who said anything about what he yelled?

But by all means, keep giving a pass to Islamists.
Something I have never done, it must be your imagination.

[tater]

It's in the most recent news reports—not that I needed the confirmation that he was not, in fact, a Quaker. Unsurprisingly, he is according to his mother, "a devout muslim" and yelled "allah akbar" as he attacked.

[UnderseaLcpl]

Regardless of race, colour, creed, religion or anything else for that matter....a murderer is a murderer.


Well said, Jim.

[Ducimus]

Airmen. Not solider. Airmen. Being an Airman isn't the most glamorous title in military circles, but i think it's still respectful to call them for who they were.


In related news.....
Gunman Shouting 'Allahu Akbar' Kills 2 US Airmen in Germany (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/gunman-shouting-allah-akbar-kills-us-airmen-germany/story?id=13037467)

[Bubblehead1980]

His profile(if it is indeed him) puts him as a flag waving nationalist who loves his country


Tribes, he was a devout muslim yelling "god is great" in arabic....

[Skybird]

German BKA gets referred to with quotes of them assuming it to be a targetted intentional attack against Americans, no random attack. The uncle of the attacker said he is a devout Muslim believer. His parents came to Germany 40 years ago. He had plenty of more ammunition with him.

From: various German media.

First politicians got "quoted" with avoiding to call it an attack motivated by religious ideology. It cannot be what shall not be.

Quelle surprise. It successfully never has anything to do with it since 9/11.

[Tribesman]

It's in the most recent news reports
Did I mention anything about what he yelled?
Read again the post you took issue with then get back when you have something to say about what I wrote not what you would like to think I wrote.

[Penguin]

Regardless of race, colour, creed, religion or anything else for that matter....a murderer is a murderer.


You are right about this, but as this crime seems to be political/religious motivated it is imo important to take a look into the gunman's background. If he quacks I am in favour to call a duck "a duck". Could this reenforce prejudices? Maybe, but you won't eliminate prejudices if you sweep his background and motivation under the carpet.

As a cop you certainly know when the press talks about your job: mostly only when some cop behaves out of his bounds. You should only be alarmed if the press - or some sunny paper - writes: "Sensation! A law-abiding, non-corrupt policeman did a good job!" :D


My sympathies to the families and loved ones of the victims.

:salute:

[Skybird]

German media confirms the shooter to be a "radicalised Islamist".

[Feuer Frei!]

This goes hand in hand with the uprisings across the Muslim world.
They have re-learned that fighting a professional military force head on (even in asymetrical warfare) is onerous.

I think we have entered the era of fifth generational warfare. The enemy is everywhere, if not massing in the streets to bring things to halt then he is right behind you.

Here are pictures of Arid Uka:
http://i51.tinypic.com/rwjmg5.jpg

http://i56.tinypic.com/14v6w74.jpg

Muslim worshipper, nothing new there.

[Skybird]

They have re-learned that fighting a professional military force head on (even in asymetrical warfare) is onerous.

I think we have entered the era of fifth generational warfare. The enemy is everywhere, if not massing in the streets to bring things to halt then he is right behind you.


The main weapon they use now is demographics, birth rates and migration. They couldn't beat us in Europe by means of war (although our ancestors were extremely lucky on a number of occasions), so now they try to "outbreed" us.

[Feuer Frei!]

It is a relearning because the Rebel Judeans resorted to knifing Roman Soldiers, and the Assasian cult relied on sneaky one on one knife attacks to kill Crusaders.

Think of the similarities in imagery: a little nobody using a basic knife to take on heavily armed and armored Western Troopers (i.e. Roman Legionaries or Christian Crusaders is similar to a little nobody jumping up and popping at U.S. Soldiers.

The Roman empire during it's hight extended into the Middle East with the provinces of Asia Minor, Judea and Egypt. During this era they faced a similar extremism the U.S. does today.
Religious fundamentalism.
A very basic mistake for Westerns is to assume that Muslim culture, religion, and society can ever be divorced anymore than the Judeans could imagine a world in which a statue of the Emperor could be allowed in the Temple. For thousands of years this has been the way of monotheistic Middle Eastern religions (Judaism, Islam, or even Christianity.)
Corruption, greed, political intrigue, fanaticism, and religious exclusion have for centuries played a major role in the world of Western Asia. All of which prevent perfect peace from forming only levels of quiet.

[Tribesman]

The main weapon they use now is demographics
Yeah this prick shot the 4 people with demographics.
Then again someone mentioned demographics already in this topic...and they managed to post a clearly obvious lie about population shifts.:doh:

[Onkel Neal]

But he has been democratically elected, so there must be something positive in all this. :88)

The way you say that, sounds like you are suggesting there is a better way to choose leaders?

[Skybird]

The way you say that, sounds like you are suggesting there is a better way to choose leaders?
The way I said that was meant to hint at that many Europeans tend to demand all those freedoms and choices for the Muhameddan world and many other parts of the third world, without considering that it sometimes is right these choices and freedoms bringing the worst of the worst to power, and the greatest enemies of our way of living and of those freedoms we want to see them being given - just to wake up one day later and realise that they have turned these our freedoms and our good will against us. There must be limits to our tolerance.

Some people make a holy grail of democratic choice, as if that would guarantee in any way that the best, the most noble and altruistic, the most competent and honest would win, no matter in what social/political/cultural environment, and they do not care for allowing their own destruction being tried on the basis of right this value. That is the point where I refuse to follow any longer. I did in the past, but realised that it is no good to do so. To me, democractic structures are only an acceptable choice in some conditions - not in all. I see places in the world and I can imagine scenarios (and argued in their defence in past years and threads), where I think other ways of running a place are more promising to function.

Realpolitik, that is. Because I think just having good intention alone, is no value in itself. In fact it seems to have done much more worse than good in history. Maybe that does not make me a shining example of a fanatic democrat. But it brings me much more into congruence with realities, and makes me less prone to falling for wishful thinking.

[Onkel Neal]

Well, even with disfunctional societies, I favor democracy. If, like pre-Nazi Germany, they democratically choose fascists, then there will be trouble, but that's just the price of freedom. It's like Tiger Blood, you either have it or you don't.

[Skybird]

Well, even with disfunctional societies, I favor democracy. If, like pre-Nazi Germany, they democratically choose fascists, then there will be trouble, but that's just the price of freedom. It's like Tiger Blood, you either have it or you don't.
For ourselves, that may be so. But for certain others - if others vote for personell causing troubles not onply to them but also to us, then I fail to see the need that we should accept that just becasue the othewrs have elected them.

In the end it comes down to the endless debate I had with Steve two months ago or so, about the tolerance-paradoxon: that tolerance needs limits in that it should not toleratew the intolerant,. for this wpould mean that the intolerant wipe out the tolerant ones, and tolerance with them. It is the same with freedom.

[tater]

If you yell allahu akbhar when attacking, you're an jihadist, or otherwise motivated by Islam to commit your crime.

[Tchocky]

Let's not blow this out of proportion. An unhinged lunatic executed a poorly planned (if it was planned at all) attack which caused loss of life, but not nearly as much as could have been lost had the attack been "professional".
This is utterly tragic for those who have suffered, and the families have my sympathy.


But seriously, Al-Qaeda shock trooper this guy ain't.

[tater]

They don't need AQ, just the ability to follow their idiotic faith. Religious literalism strikes again.

[Tribesman]

But seriously, Al-Qaeda shock trooper this guy ain't.
But seriously, what a failure, how is he going to breed the western world out of existance while stuck in prison.
Its their secret plan you know:03:

[Onkel Neal]

For ourselves, that may be so.

No, it has to be the same for everyone, cannot discriminate. No double standards. And hey, if they pick the wrong leaders who franchise terrorism, that's ok, because we do not have to accept them. We can go to war and bring them down.

[Skybird]

No, it has to be the same for everyone, cannot discriminate. No double standards. And hey, if they pick the wrong leaders who franchise terrorism, that's ok, because we do not have to accept them. We can go to war and bring them down.
I prefer prevention, you prefer to let things break and then try to repair them. Both has pros and cons.

I cannot subscribe to this unlimited-tolerance policy, and as a German I maybe even shouldn'T, we have had two totalitarian dictatorships in just 80 years, but at least you do not go as far as many politicians her ein the EU: saying that if a rogue and villain gets elected somewhere we should and must always accept hom as a representative we have to make politicla business with. For example, there are not a few people over here wnting to negotiate with hamas and Hezbollah and deleting them from the terror list, with the explanation that they came to power democratically and have had a sufficient majority opf their people supporting them. Also, you can easily find yourself locked in more wars than you can handle.

However, we must not go to war about other people'S concerns. We can, but we have no obligation. Becasue we pay for it, and it is our soldiers who risk their lives. And I often think that it would be so much more reasonable to commit a small evil than to later repair the damage by waging war, which brings so much more evil about so much more people and being payed for by so many more.


Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.

[Tribesman]

For example, there are not a few people over here wnting to negotiate with hamas and Hezbollah and deleting them from the terror list, with the explanation that they came to power democratically and have had a sufficient majority opf their people supporting them.


Errrrr.....the arguement put forward there is that you recognise the political wings and don't put them on the terror list where their armed wings belong, its the well established process of dealing with people you can deal with and isolation of the people you cannot deal with.
Its the same as recognising Sinn Fein while keeping the PIRA on the terror list, recognising the PLO while keeping the PFLP-GC on the terror list, recognising Fatah while keeping Al-Asqa on the terror list....damn what a stupid new idea these silly EU politicians are trying to introduce, they obviously must live on a parralel world to come up with such strange new ideas.

[Feuer Frei!]

UPDATE:
So the weapon malfunctioned and the attack was 'revenge' motivated.

AN investigator says the pistol used by the suspect in the shooting of two US airmen at Frankfurt Airport malfunctioned during the attack, preventing further loss of life. Prosecutor Rainer Griesbaum told reporters today that suspect Arid Uka has confessed that he went to the Frankfurt airport on Wednesday specifically to kill Americans "as revenge for the American mission in Afghanistan".
He says Uka shot one airman in the back of the head outside the bus, then ran on board and shot the driver in the head, killing both.
After shooting and injuring two more airmen he pointed the pistol at the head of a third and pulled the trigger twice, but the weapon jammed.
Uka then fled and his would-be victim gave chase and caught him in the airport terminal.


SOURCE (http://www.news.com.au/breaking-news/frankfurt-shooter-wanted-revenge/story-e6frfku0-1226016151600)

[MH]

Errrrr.....the arguement put forward there is that you recognise the political wings and don't put them on the terror list where their armed wings belong, its the well established process of dealing with people you can deal with and isolation of the people you cannot deal with.
Its the same as recognising Sinn Fein while keeping the PIRA on the terror list, recognising the PLO while keeping the PFLP-GC on the terror list, recognising Fatah while keeping Al-Asqa on the terror list....damn what a stupid new idea these silly EU politicians are trying to introduce, they obviously must live on a parralel world to come up with such strange new ideas.

You are great lawyer Tribesman.
You try to be sophisticated but you get lost in the process.
What you try to say doesn't work for the same reason you argue it should work.

[Tribesman]

What you try to say doesn't work for the same reason you argue it should work.


I hate to bring reality to your strange world MH but each case mentioned did work.:smug:
Now you could of course claim they didn't work, but that would be you
having to lie again wouldn't it:rotfl2:

[MH]

I like it when you get emotional.
carry on..