First time being depth charged - Evaision Advice?

[FlankSpeed]

Ok,

I have three maybe four ASW ships that have been circling above me and depth charging me, and pinging me for the last 45mins. I have gone as deep as I dare in the shallow waters off the Scottish coast - at 81 meters at the moment, speed reduced to 1knot and rigged for silent running. When one of the ships passes over the top of me for the attack run I wait for the depth charges to explode and then go to flank speed and hard rudder... reducing back to 1knot and centering rudder after the explosions have stopped. I am trying to make a course that keeps my stern pointed at the nearest ASW ship, but this is hard as their are atleast three of them going around me in a circle and this is the first time I have been in this situation.

So far the depth charges have been rocking my boat but I haven't taken any damage yet but I feel it it is only a matter of time.

I just wondered if there is any simple advice for a new player to attempt to get himself out of this mess, although I accept the fact that the end for the gallent crew of the U-45 is almost certainly near :D

[frau kaleun]

The problem with having more than one hunting you is that, in theory, one or more boats can keep tracking you while someone else makes the attack run. Quick maneuvering and bursts of speed while the charges are actually going off should be okay - and you might want to try and work a depth change in there as well - since I don't think anybody's sonar is going to work with all the commotion in the water, but other than that I think you just have to run as silent as possible and hope they all lose contact for long enough to give up and go away.

Try using the rudder to make slow, looping course changes to port and then starboard while creeping away.

I had 2 of them after me once in about 70-80 meters of water and managed to get away, but I'm still not sure how I did it. They weren't very persistent, that's for sure. Good luck! :salute:

[FlankSpeed]

Thanks for the tips... have been checking the hydrophone, actually there are only two of them not the four I originally thought (unless some have given up). I have been trying to make guesses about their course and I think I am out of their circle now. They've stopped pinging me and running over the top of me so that's a good sign atleast. Hopefully they won't re-acquire me and I can just slowly drift away from them at 1knot. It's only 1939 still so maybe I'll be ok.

Very intense gameplay, I think I am becoming addicted!

[frau kaleun]

Thanks for the tips... have been checking the hydrophone, actually there are only two of them not the four I originally thought (unless some have given up). I have been trying to make guesses about their course and I think I am out of their circle now. They've stopped pinging me and running over the top of me so that's a good sign atleast. Hopefully they won't re-acquire me and I can just slowly drift away from them at 1knot. It's only 1939 still so maybe I'll be ok.

Earlier in the war this is definitely much easier. That's probably the only thing that accounts for me getting out of a similar scrape, that was also very early in the war. I really thought I'd bought the farm that time, had followed a merchant close into the coast and suddenly had 2 DDs on my butt, they came out of nowhere while I was trying to set up a shot on the merchant. Ordered a crash dive and ended up with less than 10m beneath my keel. :o

IIRC there is always the chance of running into an "elite" enemy ASW crew, at least in GWX, but generally speaking the ASW AI gets better and better as the war progresses. Early on, you can get away with a lot... especially if you can get to 120 meters or more, I don't think they can even set a charge to detonate that deep. I stay out of the shallows now as much as possible. :yep:

Very intense gameplay, I think I am becoming addicted!

It don't take much, that's fer shur. :D

[Bakkels]

Well actually you're doing it textbook style :up: Just keep in mind that patience is the key here (or anywhere else in SH3 for that matter :03:). Don't even try to increase the time compression! (A foolish error I made countless times. To be honest, I still make that error sometimes.). Be patient, stay deep.. well you obviously know the drill. Just wear them out. It's '39, they should give up relatively fast.
And keep your speed under 2 knots. That way they won't hear you. (You probably know this already but still) You don't even have to go into silent mode. Because all that does is prevent you from loading torps and doing repairs. So if you're not damaged or reloading, setting your speed at under 2 knots will have the exact same effect as running silent.

[print.scr]

Ok,

I have three maybe four ASW ships that have been circling above me and depth charging me, and pinging me for the last 45mins. I have gone as deep as I dare in the shallow waters off the Scottish coast - at 81 meters at the moment, speed reduced to 1knot and rigged for silent running. When one of the ships passes over the top of me for the attack run I wait for the depth charges to explode and then go to flank speed and hard rudder... reducing back to 1knot and centering rudder after the explosions have stopped. I am trying to make a course that keeps my stern pointed at the nearest ASW ship, but this is hard as their are atleast three of them going around me in a circle and this is the first time I have been in this situation.

So far the depth charges have been rocking my boat but I haven't taken any damage yet but I feel it it is only a matter of time.

I just wondered if there is any simple advice for a new player to attempt to get himself out of this mess, although I accept the fact that the end for the gallent crew of the U-45 is almost certainly near :D

Enemy ships get stuck if you run your u-boat very close to the coastline.

[FlankSpeed]

(You probably know this already but still) You don't even have to go into silent mode. Because all that does is prevent you from loading torps and doing repairs. So if you're not damaged or reloading, setting your speed at under 2 knots will have the exact same effect as running silent.

Actually I didn't know that, I thought silent running activated some kind of special super stealthy mode! I'll probably still use it though, I like the way the crew start whispering their updates when you toggle it on.

Well, I got away from those pesky destroyers with only minor damage to the deck gun, so all ended well, let's see if I can make it past 1940!

I wonder if you can actually hear the ASDIC pings bouncing off the hull in real life, or if it's just something computer games and hollywood movies add for drama. Scary stuff...

[desirableroasted]

setting your speed at under 2 knots will have the exact same effect as running silent.

Actually, you want to set your RPMs to 80rpms or under (some say 75).

Go up in the conning tower, where you will find two identical dials. If you are at 2 knots, they will be pointing at around 100.

Ease your speed down until they read no more than 80. Then you are at silent running.

Also, it is a good thing to rig for silent running even if you aren't doing repairs or loading. Principally, because the minute you do get damaged, the compartment crew will try to fix the damage, even if you have not assigned your special repair team to the compartment.

[reignofdeath]

Actually I didn't know that, I thought silent running activated some kind of special super stealthy mode! I'll probably still use it though, I like the way the crew start whispering their updates when you toggle it on.

Well, I got away from those pesky destroyers with only minor damage to the deck gun, so all ended well, let's see if I can make it past 1940!

I wonder if you can actually hear the ASDIC pings bouncing off the hull in real life, or if it's just something computer games and hollywood movies add for drama. Scary stuff...

Actually I think you can, since a ASDIC wave is a sound wave after all. Anyone care to pitch in on this?? Im not for sure.

[reignofdeath]

Actually, you want to set your RPMs to 80rpms or under (some say 75).

Go up in the conning tower, where you will find two identical dials. If you are at 2 knots, they will be pointing at around 100.

Ease your speed down until they read no more than 80. Then you are at silent running.

Also, it is a good thing to rig for silent running even if you aren't doing repairs or loading. Principally, because the minute you do get damaged, the compartment crew will try to fix the damage, even if you have not assigned your special repair team to the compartment.

Really?? Ive never had problems with 2 knots at 100 rpm, I seem to be able to slip away alot with that. Granted it was 1939, but I DID slip out of Loch Ewe while running at 2 knots with about 3 destroyers and 3 more trawlers hunting me. One made a run on me so I bursted to flank then when the last charge stopped dropped it to 2 knots and I guess I was far enough away (I had silent running already engaged too)

[kroll688]

Yes you can hear active sonar off of the hull when inside. My experience is with modern submarines.

[Gargamel]

Really?? Ive never had problems with 2 knots at 100 rpm, I seem to be able to slip away alot with that. Granted it was 1939, but I DID slip out of Loch Ewe while running at 2 knots with about 3 destroyers and 3 more trawlers hunting me. One made a run on me so I bursted to flank then when the last charge stopped dropped it to 2 knots and I guess I was far enough away (I had silent running already engaged too)

You will. Mid 41 and later they get GOOD.


Deeeeeep and slooooooow and wiggly is the way to go.



Just like sex.

[frau kaleun]

Deeeeeep and slooooooow and wiggly is the way to go.


I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Gargamel]

I am intrigued by your ideas, and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TyiVVatXYbk/TLKnQgzPguI/AAAAAAAAAJk/wj9YW9nzTWY/s1600/orly4-full.jpg

[desirableroasted]

Really?? Ive never had problems with 2 knots at 100 rpm, I seem to be able to slip away alot with that. Granted it was 1939, but I DID slip out of Loch Ewe while running at 2 knots with about 3 destroyers and 3 more trawlers hunting me. One made a run on me so I bursted to flank then when the last charge stopped dropped it to 2 knots and I guess I was far enough away (I had silent running already engaged too)

The game reports "2 knots" at any speed between 2.0 and 2.99 knots (which is why you can move at "0 knots" -- you are at .9 knots, perhaps).

At 2.9 you are going to be making too many rpms to be silent. So, to be safe, check your rpms, not the reported speed.

That said, even at higher speeds you still may get away:


you could be under a thermal layer. You won't know when you are, but they are modeled in GWX.
the DD crew might not be very good.
if you are deep enough, his hydrophone may overshoot you.

In 1939, you can, often and surprisingly, simply walk away from the scene of the crime at 3-5 knots and only 50 meters depth. By 1943, I am wishing for a crush depth of 500 meters and a pair of Dorothy's magic shoes.

But your mileage may vary.

[reignofdeath]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_TyiVVatXYbk/TLKnQgzPguI/AAAAAAAAAJk/wj9YW9nzTWY/s1600/orly4-full.jpg
:timeout::timeout::timeout::timeout:




LMFAO :har: That just made my day

[reignofdeath]

The game reports "2 knots" at any speed between 2.0 and 2.99 knots (which is why you can move at "0 knots" -- you are at .9 knots, perhaps).

At 2.9 you are going to be making too many rpms to be silent. So, to be safe, check your rpms, not the reported speed.

That said, even at higher speeds you still may get away:


you could be under a thermal layer. You won't know when you are, but they are modeled in GWX.
the DD crew might not be very good.
if you are deep enough, his hydrophone may overshoot you.

In 1939, you can, often and surprisingly, simply walk away from the scene of the crime at 3-5 knots and only 50 meters depth. By 1943, I am wishing for a crush depth of 500 meters and a pair of Dorothy's magic shoes.

But your mileage may vary.

The hydrophone overshooting me?? Ive never heard of this, could you elaborate more??

[FlankSpeed]

hmmm, hydrophones... exactly how good do the AI ASW ships get with them anyway? Are they comparable to your own crew members? Since I've started playing with the hydrophone on my boat I've noticed that at even at medium ish ranges my guy sometimes reports 'No Sound Contact' when I can find the contact myself. He is still unqualified though....

Oh, and is upgrading to the KDB worth the 300 renown?

[Gargamel]

hmmm, hydrophones... exactly how good do the AI ASW ships get with them anyway? Are they comparable to your own crew members? Since I've started playing with the hydrophone on my boat I've noticed that at even at medium ish ranges my guy sometimes reports 'No Sound Contact' when I can find the contact myself. He is still unqualified though....

Oh, and is upgrading to the KDB worth the 300 renown?

I think the upgrade is worth it, as it increases the angle at which you can hear things. The KDB has a blind spot to aft, while the regular one (IIRC, I never use it, I always immediately upgrade it), is limited to a narrow band forward. I think though, that if you listen manually, then the blind spots are ignored, but your sonar guy is still affected by them.

[Snestorm]

Actually, you want to set your RPMs to 80rpms or under (some say 75).

Go up in the conning tower, where you will find two identical dials. If you are at 2 knots, they will be pointing at around 100.

Ease your speed down until they read no more than 80. Then you are at silent running.

Also, it is a good thing to rig for silent running even if you aren't doing repairs or loading. Principally, because the minute you do get damaged, the compartment crew will try to fix the damage, even if you have not assigned your special repair team to the compartment.

The actual Silent Speed for Type IXs was 90 RPM.
This will bring you as close to 2 knots as you you can get, without going over.
That's all I use, and it works well.

[Snestorm]

hmmm, hydrophones... exactly how good do the AI ASW ships get with them anyway? Are they comparable to your own crew members? Since I've started playing with the hydrophone on my boat I've noticed that at even at medium ish ranges my guy sometimes reports 'No Sound Contact' when I can find the contact myself. He is still unqualified though....

Oh, and is upgrading to the KDB worth the 300 renown?

If a ship moves into your baffles or goes over the top of you, when following a contact, the sound guy wil say "contact lost at 200".
Manning the hydrophones oneself allows for a "cheat", as you can hear things that were historicly not possible. The sound guy (qualified or not) can't.

So it isn't that the sound guy is dumb. It's that SH3 allows you a-little ESP at the hydrophone station.

If you play as I do, and don't man the hydrophones, KDB is well worth the 300 renown, and much more.

[Gerald]

The actual Silent Speed for Type IXs was 90 RPM.
This will bring you as close to 2 knots as you you can get, without going over.
That's all I use, and it works well. You can get 0.5 knots to be safe

[Snestorm]

You can get 0.5 knots to be safe

Yes, you can. But, I'll stick to 90 RPM "to be safe".

[desirableroasted]

The hydrophone overshooting me?? Ive never heard of this, could you elaborate more??

I knew you would ask, and I can't find the diagram. I hope some helpful soul can round it up.

EDIT: I have removed several lines of inaccurate information here. My apologies!

See Sailor and Tom's notes below.

[Bakkels]

If you're running GWX3.0, a detailed explanation can be found in the manual, in the gameplay appendix :03:

[Sailor Steve]

Yes you can hear active sonar off of the hull when inside. My experience is with modern submarines.
What did it sound like? WW2 sources say everything from pebbles being thrown against the hull to being hit with a hammer, but no one seems to know for sure.

A first-hand account would be nice. :sunny:

[kroll688]

Modern active sonars have a higher pitch whine sound, that varies in tone. It is not the pinging heard in game, but ASDIC is a very basic form of active sonar, sending out large pulses in front of the ship, so the pinging sound is most likely accurate for a bare steel hull.

[Gereke]

When I was a shipboard sailor (before I went Master at Arms), one night I was quite perplexed by this noise I heard while down in the berthing compartment (served on a Ticonderoga Class). My berthing was in the aft part of the ship, just a little below the water line.

The noise was this really odd whistling chirping business that sounded almost melodic. I finally couldn't take it anymore and asked one of the more seasoned sailors WTF that noise was.

"Oh, that's the active SONAR".

"You sure? Thought maybe we'd run over Humphrey the Hump back"

[Gargamel]

When I was a shipboard sailor (before I went Master at Arms), one night I was quite perplexed by this noise I heard while down in the berthing compartment (served on a Ticonderoga Class). My berthing was in the aft part of the ship, just a little below the water line.

The noise was this really odd whistling chirping business that sounded almost melodic. I finally couldn't take it anymore and asked one of the more seasoned sailors WTF that noise was.

"Oh, that's the active SONAR".

"You sure? Thought maybe we'd run over Humphrey the Hump back"

I heard something very similar once while SCUBA diving off Jamaica. When we got back to the surface, the dive master told us it was Sonar from naval exercises they holding in the area.

[Sailor Steve]

I knew you would ask, and I can't find the diagram. I hope some helpful soul can round it up.

The escort's hydrophone's has a cone around the escort in which it can sense you. IIRC, it can (but won't always) sense any noise between the surface and a 45-60 degree angle down.

Thus, the deeper you are, the closer you can be to the escort without being detected, as his hydrophone cone may be overshooting you.

It is imperfect, and as far as I know, the diagram was illustrative, not definitive, but it seems to work. As you have probably noted yourself, 150 meters may be 3 times as deep as 50 meters, but it's 10 times safer.
Sorry I missed this first time around.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/sonarpatterns.jpg?t=1298822067

The stock game doesn't represent this, but they made it adjustable, so GWX does.

Basically by the time he's actually dropping depth charges, he can't actually hear you anymore.

[Tom]

I knew you would ask, and I can't find the diagram. I hope some helpful soul can round it up.

The escort's hydrophone's has a cone around the escort in which it can sense you. IIRC, it can (but won't always) sense any noise between the surface and a 45-60 degree angle down.

Thus, the deeper you are, the closer you can be to the escort without being detected, as his hydrophone cone may be overshooting you.

It is imperfect, and as far as I know, the diagram was illustrative, not definitive, but it seems to work. As you have probably noted yourself, 150 meters may be 3 times as deep as 50 meters, but it's 10 times safer.


I think that is how active sonar works. The ship sends a sound pulse in a direction, and listens for echoes. The devices for sending the sound pulse couldn't be directed downwards, so once you're close enough to the ship he can't ping you.

So, in order to avoid active sonar, being pinged, you must be either far enough for the sonar to not reach you effectively (out of range), or deep enough and close enough, that the sonar beam overshoots you. If neither of these is possible, presenting as small a profile as possible helps lower your echo very much, possibly allowing you to not be detected. The further away you are, the lower your echo. Your speed or sound level doesn't effect the ability of active sonar to find you.

Hydrophones, on the other hand, are passive microphones, and they can detect you from any direction, except from the baffles, where the sound of the ships own engines and screws will mask any other sounds.

The most important thing when avoiding passive hydrophones, is being as quiet as possible. Distance helps too, both downwards and horizontally. Furthermore, a thermal layer may greatly reduce the ability of hydrophones to hear you. Keeping a low profile, which was the most important method of avoiding sonar, does nothing to help avoid being heard by hydrophones (except that keeping your stern pointed towards the listening enemy usually moves you away from it, thus lowering your sound level.)

[timmy41]

Whether or not the ASDIC is audible to humans depends on its frequency. Generally, or so ive read, earlier ones had a frequency in the higher spectrum of human hearing, and later in the war there were even higher frequency ones that people couldnt hear, but feel because the boat would vibrate.

[LordCucumber]

(except that keeping your stern pointed towards the listening enemy usually moves you away from it, thus lowering your sound level.)

Ok... so what if you would back up silently with your nose to the enemy instead of heading away with your stern to the enemy.. Would your own boat's profile mask the sound (blocking it if you are facing the enemy on 0 degrees)?

[Tom]

Ok... so what if you would back up silently with your nose to the enemy instead of heading away with your stern to the enemy.. Would your own boat's profile mask the sound (blocking it if you are facing the enemy on 0 degrees)?

Your boats profile doesn't mask sound as far as I know, at least not in the game. Perhaps realistically speaking, if you moved in reverse, your hull would be in between the destroyer trying to listen for you and your screws, which generate noise, dampening the noise a bit. Moving in reverse is slower though - the same RPMs would move you a bit faster ahead because of the submarine's shape. So moving ahead is probably a better idea anyway.

In game, your sound level depends only on engine RPMs and silent running status (repairs, loading torpedoes etc. cause noise), as far as I know. Your depth and distance from the ship listening for you determine if this sound will be heard or not. Your aspect or direction of movement do not matter.

But if the listening enemy switches to sonar instead, aspect immediately becomes the most important factor and sound level isn't important anymore. Unless, of course, some other ship is still listening, or the ship using asdic switches back to passive listening.

Thus, moving as silently as possible and maintaining as narrow a profile as possible is always the best plan.

[desirableroasted]

I think that is how active sonar works.

I stand absolutely corrected...

[sharkbit]

Pray they don't have Hedgehogs! :dead:

:)

[FlankSpeed]

Are hedgehog and squid launchers modeled in the game for the later war?

[Sailor Steve]

Ok... so what if you would back up silently with your nose to the enemy instead of heading away with your stern to the enemy.. Would your own boat's profile mask the sound (blocking it if you are facing the enemy on 0 degrees)?
Real life? WW2 submarines couldn't stop underwater, and trying to back up while submerged would make the boat extremely difficult to control. You'd probably make it worse if you tried that. Even surface ships are difficult to control in reverse.

[sharkbit]

Are hedgehog and squid launchers modeled in the game for the later war?

Hedgehogs are modeled in the game. :damn:
Squids are not.

[maillemaker]

Depth is your friend. Late in the war, your best chances of survival are to go as deep in the yellow zone as you can. An undamaged sub can go right to the end of the yellow zone no problem. Once my boat sustains any damage, I no longer go after escorted targets as I can't go deep enough to get away.

[FlankSpeed]

Depth is your friend. Late in the war, your best chances of survival are to go as deep in the yellow zone as you can. An undamaged sub can go right to the end of the yellow zone no problem. Once my boat sustains any damage, I no longer go after escorted targets as I can't go deep enough to get away.

Amen to that, although I'm still in the early war, I've started to push the depth limits of my boat once discovered. Yesterday I shook off two destroyers after a convoy attack by submerging to 210 meters in my VIIB. I'm running GWX which I think will let you go a bit deeper than the yellow zone... providing you are undamaged ofcourse.

[Gargamel]

Each time I get a new boat, I take it down until the crew start's screaming about taking damage. Then I take it back for repairs. That's my shakedown cruise. Then for each patrol I take it down to my prefered escape depth (usally >200m) to make sure it still goes that deep, and then continue on my patrol.

In the VII's I would usually take damage around 230m, while the IX's I've tested recently have pegged the gauge with no problems, so at that point i gave up. So in the VII's i'd evade at about 200m, and the IX's 220 or so. I do have randomize crush depth on, so that's why I test each boat each patrol.

[maillemaker]

I've never been that brave. It seems to me in SH3 once the hull starts taking damage you're screwed so fast you have no time to recover.

Steve

[FlankSpeed]

I've never been that brave. It seems to me in SH3 once the hull starts taking damage you're screwed so fast you have no time to recover.

Steve

If you want to test your crush depth, I think it is safe to keep going down untill the glass in your dials break, and bolts start working themselves loose. Once you start to see visual damage to your interior, you can begin to surface at this point and you should be fine.

[VonApist]

Actually I think you can, since a ASDIC wave is a sound wave after all. Anyone care to pitch in on this?? Im not for sure.


Yes you can. At least this is my experience with Type 209 Subs