Countdown for a new system

[Skybird]

Any advise, tips, warnings, comments would be appreciated. Would be nice to get especially my questions addressed - which sometimes proves to be difficult at subsim... :D

After having considered it repeatedly in the past 3 years, I am about to get a new system, and this time I am serious, and it is already decided - mid-March will be the time. I plan to keep my monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer and scanner, plus CH HOTAS, wheel and all that hardware stuff. I further plan to invest not more than 750 Euros for both a system and Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium or Professional. That depends on whether or not I expect to have use for the XP mode or not. Well - have I?

It will be an Intel-basing system with dual cores, I am thinking about an i5 with 2x3.2 or 2x3.33 GHz, that seems to be a range with a reasonable bang-for-the-buck score - or not? No need for quad cores, I lack the software supporting it, and I do not buy latest action games needing them.

What's more, 4 GB RAM shall do for my needs - which is older software that I list below. Is there any point for me in getting more, considering that software?

nVidia GFX board for me. Must not be top notch, but a reasonable price. Shall be not worse than my current 7950. Maybe a GTX460 - is that considered a fair and economic deal currently?

Have sound cards disappeared in recent years? It seems onboard sound no longer is a problem for the system, like it often was 8 years ago!?

I need USB ports, and not just 2 or 3. A good hub.

Quietness would be nice if it is within the budget.

Solid cooling.

Looks, LED tower gimmicks etc: no need and no desire for that. Will not pay for artwork on the tower and electric eye candy.

Anything special I should take care of, or watch out for? Reliability and a long endurance of the components is what I am looking after. Any especially recommendable mainboard, or nice sales offers for comp0lete ready-systems that meet my criteria that you happen to know about IN GERMANY ?

Beside the obvious driver stuff, I for the main will run MS Office 2003 (especially Words 2003), if possible Paint Shop Pro 9, and the following games, not all of them necessarily, but maybe I will reinstall some of them when I am in a sentimental mood - as far as I found out at Google, they all have been managed to get running under Windows 7, but some maybe with problems for some users:

FS9 + addons (problems for some people)
Falcon 4 AF (pfsp)
Oblivion(pfsp)
SBP-PE
Medieval 2
ArmA2
Fallout 3
Danube Front '85
WinSPMBT
TOAW3
SH3
GTR2
Richard Burns Rally
Nascar 2003 Papyrus (pfsp)
Sim City 4 (pfsp)
TDU
Schach etc

Am I missing any possible disappointments there?

[Skybird]

I also consider to install a dual-boot: in case of a 500 GB HD: Windows 7 with 380 GB, and a smaller 120 GB partition with XP for games that may not work otherwise, especially FS9 on my mind.

Does that XP partition also include all XP-run software like FS9, or can it also run sodftware on the other (W7) partitions? Does the AntiVir, Firewall etc that I install on one of the W7 partitions also pürotect software that operates under the XP installation? If not and all guards must be installed on both XP and W7 partition, what about the license keys then? Do they work with two installations on one machine?

[Gerald]

Any advise, tips, warnings, comments would be appreciated. Would be nice to get especially my questions addressed - which sometimes proves to be difficult at subsim... :D

After having considered it repeatedly in the past 3 years, I am about to get a new system, and this time I am serious, and it is already decided - mid-March will be the time. I plan to keep my monitor, keyboard, mouse, printer and scanner, plus CH HOTAS, wheel and all that hardware stuff. I further plan to invest not more than 750 Euros for both a system and Windows 7 64 Bit Home Premium or Professional. That depends on whether or not I expect to have use for the XP mode or not. Well - have I?

It will be an Intel-basing system with dual cores, I am thinking about an i5 with 2x3.2 or 2x3.33 GHz, that seems to be a range with a reasonable bang-for-the-buck score - or not? No need for quad cores, I lack the software supporting it, and I do not buy latest action games needing them.

What's more, 4 GB RAM shall do for my needs - which is older software that I list below. Is there any point for me in getting more, considering that software?

nVidia GFX board for me. Must not be top notch, but a reasonable price. Shall be not worse than my current 7950. Maybe a GTX460 - is that considered a fair and economic deal currently?

Have sound cards disappeared in recent years? It seems onboard sound no longer is a problem for the system, like it often was 8 years ago!?

I need USB boards, and not just 2 or 3. A good hub.

Quietness would be nice if it is within the budget.

Solid cooling.

Looks, LED tower gimmicks etc: no need and no desire for that. Will not pay for artwork on the tower and electric eye candy.

Anything special I should take care of, or watch out for? Reliability and a long endurance of the components is what I am looking after. Any especially recommendable mainboard, or nice sales offers for comp0lete ready-systems that meet my criteria that you happen to know about IN GERMANY ?

Beside the obvious driver stuff, I for the main will run MS Office 2003 (especially Words 2003), if possible Paint Shop Pro 9, and the following games, not all of them necessarily, but maybe I will reinstall some of them when I am in a sentimental mood - as far as I found out at Google, they all have been managed to get running under Windows 7, but some maybe with problems for some users:

FS9 + addons (problems for some people)
Falcon 4 AF (pfsp)
Oblivion(pfsp)
SBP-PE
Medieval 2
ArmA2
Fallout 3
Danube Front '85
WinSPMBT
SH3
GTR2
Richard Burns Rally
Nascar 2003 Papyrus (pfsp)
Sim City 4 (pfsp)
TDU
Schach etc

Am I missing any possible disappointments there? Dungeon Keeper,Dungeon Keeper 2 CLASSIC

[Sailor Steve]

@ Skybird: I'm about a month behind you for getting a new computer, and I'm having the same dilemma about what it's going to look like.

@ Vendor: Why do feel the need to quote an entire long post just so you can write one line?

[Skybird]

@ Skybird: I'm about a month behind you for getting a new computer, and I'm having the same dilemma about what it's going to look like.

We could help each other by job sharing then. I get a system, and you do the pay. :O:

Currently figuring out how to do a dual boot. I think I have a confused understanding of what it is and how user software is handled by it. Will have a separate thread on that when the time has come.

@ Vendor: Why do feel the need to quote an entire long post just so you can write one line?
I even wonder about the purpose of that one line!? Dungeon Keeper...? Wrong thread, maybe?

[Sailor Steve]

We could help each other by job sharing then. I get a system, and you do the pay. :O:
:rotfl2:

Currently figuring out how to do a dual boot. I think I have a confused understanding of what it is and how user software is handled by it. Will have a separate thread on that when the time has come.
Well, you know me. I know so little about the subject I was thinking of taking a hacksaw and some superglue to the hard drive...

[HunterICX]

Currently figuring out how to do a dual boot. I think I have a confused understanding of what it is and how user software is handled by it. Will have a separate thread on that when the time has come.

IIRC,

You install the oldest version of Windows first on one of the partitions,
then you install the other version of Windows on the other partition.
Both Windows installments create entries in the boot.ini file so when you boot up your computer a screen should appear where you can select which of the windows version you want to launch.

as for the card, the Nvidia 460 is still a good deal for the price.

HunterICX

[Herr-Berbunch]

The price of hard drives now is such that I wouldn't bother partitioning, you may as well get two, one for Win7 and one for XP - if you really need it. I run some older games just fine on Win7 and by disabling UAC I have no issues with running programs.

Good luck to you both. :yep: (Not that you'll need it!)

[the_tyrant]

My advice (I just built a new system):

Big hard drives are a great idea. I bought a 3tb drive for 199$, while a 1 tb drive is like 150$. The cost per gb goes down as the size of drive goes up.

4 cores are a good idea. Its barely more expensive than a duel core processor. and the performance increase is quite noticeable.

Also, build for the future. Get a good stable rig that can be upgraded.

[Skybird]

Well, let's figure out how dual boot system work. I understand you install the old Windows first on a small partition, and the newest on the main partition, which also should be the first partition. You install the old Windows first because some booting sequence file gets overwritten by the second installation, and if that second installation is the older Windows you barely use, then the modern Windows you want to use in the main is - does... well, what? Don't i get a selection screen anyway?

I plan separate partitions for the swap file also (to be able to defrag it by simply format that partition), a separate partition for the FS9 (around 40 GB with all my addon stuff), and a small one for chess, because the database can create certain complications with the system restore function if it is not switched of for the partition the chess software is on. And then there is the main partition for data files and all software. Plus first partition with W7, and another one for XP, a small one.

Now, how does each of the two windows interact with installed software, may it be games, may it be internet and antivirus? Do I need to install every game I want to use for the "not dominant" OS (XP in this case) on the same partition that XP is on, so that that software only can be run with XP, and not from W7?

Or is all software installed on a separate partition different from W7 and XP, but both OS are crosslinked and will interact with all software that is installed, so that every program in theory would be accessible from any of the two OS?

What about the updating of the OS, or better: the updating of any software that is coming in different versions depending on the OS you use? Let's think there is software X that is available for PX, and in a different version for Vista, and W7. I want to use it with XP, and installed it in that version. But 90% of the time I operate under W7. How is it getting updates? W7 version? XP version? Only updating when booting XP?

I think it comes down to whether the software pool is fully accessible for any of the two OS, or needs a strict separation for each of the two OS. But what is about a virus-scanner and firewall, then? I run FS9 under XP, for example, and need protection when getting live weather data. Do I need to do two virus scanner installations - one relating to XP,. the other under W7? when I install a game under any of the two OS, will it get recognised and be accessible from any of the two OS? Or is it automatically linked to the OS under which it was installed?

Can both OS use the same swap file partition? If not, can one partition then house two swap files, one for each of the OS?

Sorry, this may sound funny, but I have a hard time to figure this stuff out, via Google I just find that everybody seems to know how it works and thus it does not get explained. I just never had to do with this matter before. Get this dual-boot-novice at my end of the wire enlighted, please.

[Skybird]

My advice (I just built a new system):

Big hard drives are a great idea. I bought a 3tb drive for 199$, while a 1 tb drive is like 150$. The cost per gb goes down as the size of drive goes up.

But a 500 GB drive for 50 bucks still is even cheaper. ;) And I do not need even that much. I simply do not need it, I do not buy new games in truckload amounts anymore.

4 cores are a good idea. Its barely more expensive than a duel core processor. and the performance increase is quite noticeable.
How is that? None of the games I plan to use is new and supports multiple cores. As I said, I have almost no interest in new stuff. So I think I am better off with investing into two cores with for example 3.3 GHz than into 4 cores with 2.8 GHz. Since my sims use one CPU only anyway, that leaves the game running with 3.3 instead of 2.8 GHz, and background processes on the other CPU. Core 3 and 4 would be of no use for me, or not!?


Also, build for the future. Get a good stable rig that can be upgraded.
Yes, absolutely. I would welcome USB 3 connectors, for example, for faster USB stick handling. Additional space for RAM, if I ever would need it (which I still doubt). But beyond that - I wonder what kind of "upgrade" in hardware I could need. Again, I do not buy software anymore like I used to buy in the past. Estimating that W7 will be supported for another 8-10 years, I think that is the amount of time the new if should hold out.

And in ten years it is possible that my interest in computer games has become so specialized and small (chess, cosims), that maybe I would prefer something in the style of a notebook then. If that still is available then.

FS9 can use more hardware than I currently have. But all other sims I mentioned already probably are served with hardware overkill capacities by my new system.

[Skybird]

The price of hard drives now is such that I wouldn't bother partitioning, you may as well get two, one for Win7 and one for XP - if you really need it. I run some older games just fine on Win7 and by disabling UAC I have no issues with running programs.
What is UAC?


Good luck to you both. :yep: (Not that you'll need it!)

I am confident, I maintain the notebook of my mother with Vista since 2 years, and hate it, and since two months I maintain another notebook of a friend of hers, with Windows 7, and I like it. So the new OS is not all that new anymore. But still there are details I probably don't know, since I had no need to investigate them since he does not need them, but I will need them due to different needs of mine.

P.S. BTW, a pure Windows 7 partition, will 32 GB enoiugh in nsize, considering future Windows upgrades, SPs and system restore points?

P.P.S. I noted with enthusiasm that W7 since the first time ever features a volume cloning function, like Acronis for example. That way I can form an image of the full HD installatrions onto another, separate HD. Does that function in W7 work reliable, or are you still better off with using separate software for that?

[the_tyrant]

What is UAC?


User account control
the popup asking you if you actually want to do something or not

[Sailor Steve]

But a 500 GB drive for 50 bucks still is even cheaper. ;) And I do not need even that much. I simply do not need it, I do not buy new games in truckload amounts anymore.
Same here. I download a huge amount of music these days, but that's what I have an external drive for.

How is that? None of the games I plan to use is new and supports multiple cores. As I said, I have almost no interest in new stuff. So I think I am better off with investing into two cores with for example 3.3 GHz than into 4 cores with 2.8 GHz. Since my sims use one CPU only anyway, that leaves the game running with 3.3 instead of 2.8 GHz, and background processes on the other CPU. Core 3 and 4 would be of no use for me, or not!?
Interesting questions. I think I'd like to have as many cores as I can afford, but the GHz question puzzles me as well.

[Skybird]

as many cores as I can afford, but the GHz question puzzles me as well.

Software needs to explcitly support 2 or 4 cores, else one and the same workload of one core only gets equzally distriubuted amongst the avialable cores. Instread mof one core being on duty to 80% you then have 4 cores each of them being busy at 20%. To have all four cores running at 80% and getting the speed boost from that, you need softweare supporting that.

Thnat'S why modewrn chess engines nowadays get released in two versions: single core versions at around 40-50 Euros, and multiple core versions at around 80-100 Euros. Its the same engine, but optimised for several cores.

FS9 is single core only. You cannot get around that. You only get a GHz-independant speed boost from the fact that two processors for example allow you to have one CPU running Windows and background tasks, leaving the other free for fully calculating in the service of FS9.

That's why I prefer 2 high GHz processors over 4 CPUs with lower GHz.

[Skybird]

User account control
the popup asking you if you actually want to do something or not

Ah yes, very annoying in Vista, and although less so, still annoying in W7. I need to learn how to switch that one off.

It would be nice to have all software also running in administrator mode automatically.

Microsoft is exaggerating some things there - for no productive use.

[Castout]

That's why I prefer 2 high GHz processors over 4 CPUs with lower GHz.



Umm ArmA 2 would benefit much from 4 cores than 2.

I'm using a 2 core i5 myself though.

For games with a lot to compute like the Total War series or ArmA 2 it's best to have as many core as possible but it's true most application would only require 1 or two cores at most and with threading each core is already giving 2 cycle of calculation albeit at reduced speed than from different cores. The thing is if you buy higher speed double core CPU the gain will be in relatively simpler and or smaller programs such as file converting or older games. The gain will not be that much either well in the seconds range. Though it will make your everyday work activities a lot smoother.

But if you use lower speed 4 cores the gain will be very noticeable when playing newer games with a lot of stuffs going on. Like I said ArmA 2 and total war will greatly benefit from more cores. Well it's up to you to decide knowing this.

Excellent taste of gaming I must add. I like many of those titles you listed.

[Castout]

Ah yes, very annoying in Vista, and although less so, still annoying in W7. I need to learn how to switch that one off.

It would be nice to have all software also running in administrator mode automatically.

Microsoft is exaggerating some things there - for no productive use.

You wouldn't want to disable UAC. It's a security measure. Without it you're opening your PC to hackers WIDE open.

It's preferable to have strong passwords for UAC about 20 or more random characters and change them periodically.

Amateur hacker could download app that will try to break your UAC password with sheer CPU power especially if you have the habit of leaving the internet online for long period of time. So changing them periodically is important than ever.

[Skybird]

Well, I have Medieval 2 and do not intend to move beyond that. My jewel case lists it as a single processor game. And Arma2 I said, but actually I messed it up - I have ArmA (1) only, and again do not intend to upgrade to ArmA2 or anything else. And ArmA again is listed in the manual as a single CPU game. I do not even play it anymore.

I listed some of those games just in case that I get interested again. Not even half of them is installed currently.

I do not own a single title, I think, which is designed for dual or quad cores. And, as I said, since I do not have much interest anymore in buyin g games and prefer to stay with some old classics of strategy and flight simming - I do not need 3rd and 4th core CPUs. I need good GHz on the first and reasonable GHz on the second core - one CPU for the single CPU game, and the other for the background tasks and Windows. Only by this splitting of working tasks can single processor games gain a slight benefit from mutiuple processors. For the real deal you need games that are optimised for multiple processors.

The only title I am currently waiting for, is World in Flames, a hexfield strategy title - hardly a hardware-killing game. FS9, Falcon and SBP, COTA and TOAW3 also all are single processor titles.

And UAC, if that is the "Do you really want to open this folder", "do you really want to start Words", "do you really want to this or that", then I never have seen any code-entry there. But maybe I misunderstand what UAC is.

[Skybird]

Could anyone help me out with my confusion about dual boot setups? I am really struggling to understand how it works and how the two OS interact with installed software. What I read on the web so far does not help me, it leaves my basic misunderstanding unadressed.

[the_tyrant]

CPUs make or break the system
Many believe that Video cards are the most important part of the system. It is NOT TRUE Video cards are important in gaming and 3d design, but everything else, CPUs are more important.
Also, back just a bit more than 3 years ago, there was a time when every Intel cpu used socket 775, and every AMD chip used am2
However, now there are different sockets for different CPUs. Bigger socket number= better cpu, and generally better board with more features.

as for core numbers, more is better, but for the same amount of money, i would rather get better instruction sets, lower heat etc.

[the_tyrant]

Could anyone help me out with my confusion about dual boot setups? I am really struggling to understand how it works and how the two OS interact with installed software. What I read on the web so far does not help me, it leaves my basic misunderstanding unadressed.

Duel boot=2 operating systems on the same computer
they can usually access each other's files, but maintains 2 different registries

so if a piece of software does not need registry entries, you can find the exe and run it from either os. But if it does, it can only run on the os you installed it in.

anyways, for old games you might as well use vitualization

[Skybird]

:xDuel boot=2 operating systems on the same computer
they can usually access each other's files, but maintains 2 different registries

so if a piece of software does not need registry entries, you can find the exe and run it from either os. But if it does, it can only run on the os you installed it in.

anyways, for old games you might as well use vitualization

Two registries, okay. So I would need TWO firewalls and TWO antivir?

I checked some German sites for tech marks on CPUs, and found that an i5 661 may give me 2x3.33 GHz and a good bang for the money (190,-) , it competed nicely with the i7 in higher resolution 3D benchmarks (1650x1050 over here). That with maybe a 1156 mainboard based on H55 chips. Asus P7P55LX (100,-), how does that sound?

Then I tend to go with a 500 GB Western Digital SATA drive with 16 MB Cache and 7200, my current WD is so silent I cannot hear it. Another 40,-

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit. 85,-

DVD writer. 30,- (?)

PSU, another unsolved question. Silent it should be, and not getting consumed to the max when the system is running at maximum CPU and GFX. Am I safe with 500W when considering 4 GB RAM (name, ~ 60,- ) and something in the range of an nVidia GTX460 (768)? (150,- )? Lets mark the PSU with 45,- . And a tower where all the stuff goes into: 70,- .

Cables I should have more than enough. Soundcard: I just use my old Audigy, if needed. It runs since 8 years or so.

The cable from my DSL, it goes directly into the mainboard, if I am not mistaken? No WLAN needed here. I am not sure,m could be that I need that RJ45 card. 15,- . Two or three additional fans: 30,- .

Well, that is the idea. Let's see:

190
100
40
85
30
60
150
45
70
15
30
===

815,-

Does not look too bad. My target mark was 750,- Euros.

Has anyone a tip for a German adress where to get a system comparable to this ^ for less money?

P.S.
I forgot an USB hub :x. I need 7-8 ports. Costs how much? Let's say 20,- .

Makes 835,- all in all.

Bring that down by at least 80 Euros, and I am a happy customer

[Castout]

And UAC, if that is the "Do you really want to open this folder", "do you really want to start Words", "do you really want to this or that", then I never have seen any code-entry there. But maybe I misunderstand what UAC is.

UAC is there so that unauthorized users including hackers would still need to break your UAC password to mess with your critical files.

I'm using i5 661 myself it has a CPU-GPU processor in one package. Make sure the mobo can support the GPU processor. It's okay otherwise just that you'll be missing one of the feature you're buying. Not much if you already have a GPU though. And yeah it's fast for every day's task like MP4 conversion. When the program's only using a single core it will turbo itself to 3.6Ghz which is nice. 2 cores with 4 threads.

[Skybird]

Well, there we are - those 830 Euros above are not the final word.

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B004FQL10S/ref=asc_df_B004FQL10S2106117?smid=AFI826QYOAX6J&tag=30194-5-21&linkCode=asn&creative=22506&creativeASIN=B004FQL10S

Und sie bewegt sich doch!

What do you guys think about this combo?

[the_tyrant]

:x

Two registries, okay. So I would need TWO firewalls and TWO antivir?

I checked some German sites for tech marks on CPUs, and found that an i5 661 may give me 2x3.33 GHz and a good bang for the money (190,-) , it competed nicely with the i7 in higher resolution 3D benchmarks (1650x1050 over here). That with maybe a 1156 mainboard based on H55 chips. Asus P7P55LX (100,-), how does that sound?

Then I tend to go with a 500 GB Western Digital SATA drive with 16 MB Cache and 7200, my current WD is so silent I cannot hear it. Another 40,-

Windows 7 Home Premium 64 Bit. 85,-

DVD writer. 30,- (?)

PSU, another unsolved question. Silent it should be, and not getting consumed to the max when the system is running at maximum CPU and GFX. Am I safe with 500W when considering 4 GB RAM (name, ~ 60,- ) and something in the range of an nVidia GTX460 (768)? (150,- )? Lets mark the PSU with 45,- . And a tower where all the stuff goes into: 70,- .

Cables I should have more than enough. Soundcard: I just use my old Audigy, if needed. It runs since 8 years or so.

The cable from my DSL, it goes directly into the mainboard, if I am not mistaken? No WLAN needed here. I am not sure,m could be that I need that RJ45 card. 15,- . Two or three additional fans: 30,- .

Well, that is the idea. Let's see:

190
100
40
85
30
60
150
45
70
15
30
===

815,-

Does not look too bad. My target mark was 750,- Euros.

Has anyone a tip for a German adress where to get a system comparable to this ^ for less money?

P.S.
I forgot an USB hub :x. I need 7-8 ports. Costs how much? Let's say 20,- .

Makes 835,- all in all.

Bring that down by at least 80 Euros, and I am a happy customer

Only one set of antivirus and firewall is needed. For your main system(i assume one OS is for internet, and most applications while the other one is simply for old games)

I'm pretty sure you don't need an RJ45 NIC, its intergrated in 99.9% of all motherboards. 500w PSU is enough.

All i would change is that I would recommend 6gb ram. Most programs nowadays can only use up to 4 gbs of ram, so you still have 2 gb for windows and background programs. Also, 3 channel ram preforms better than 2 channel ram.

As for UAC, what castout is talking about is that if you use an account with less than administrator rights it will ask for a password. But since most of us use the default administrator account anyways, no password is needed.
Keep it on though, it keeps you from doing stupid things

if you want to save some money, but the cheapest optical drive available(or even don't use one). its barely used anyways.
also, most motherboards have 6 usbs, plus 2 in the front panel, so i guess a usb hub won't be needed

[Castout]

I can vouch for 6Gb or RAM. And a 1,000 Gb is wiser than a 500Gb one. Really price wise.

The provided Amazon link looks terrific though it only has a 4Gb RAM.

Does UAC help prevent hackers from messing critical files tyrant?
I ask because you seem to be in the know how of hacking.

[Jan Kyster]

Just a sidenote... :D

Don't waste your time with dual boot. I did, but found there's absolutely nothing Windows 7 wouldn't run at least as good as XP did.

And dual-boot is a real pain to get rid of again... :nope:


Better keep the old XP disc untouched. Should you one day need it, just plug it in. I kept mine just as a backup disc.


Best of luck!

[Castout]

I share Jan opinion. If you still need XP however I'd recommend external HDD (USB drive)

[Skybird]

Good idea with a second HD. I still have an exchange frame (? Wechselrahmen) for HDs, so I could put in my old HD easily, if needed.

2+4 GB? Well, okay, put on the list. Old Windows games hardly consume more than 4 GB anyway, so the full package for them. But do mainboards and Win7 support 6 GB? I would have thought they accept only 4 or 8 or 16 GB.

That gives me this partitioning then:
- Windows (is 48GB enough for Win7)?
- Swapfile (16 GB)
- Programs, Data (all the remaining GBs)
- FS9 (48 GB)
- Chess (8 GB)

Is MSI still criticised for quality of its mainboards like 8-9 years ago?

------
Edit:
found some hartdware test results, and do not like the board. BIOS not too reliable, it seems, occasional crashes, and the worst "Speicherdurchsatz" of all competitors with H55 chips: more than 60% slower. Think I go for the Asus board instead.
------

I just wish to make that Amazon offer an USB 3 offer, I do a lot of file swapping via sticks, and for an external HD it also would help data speed.

[the_tyrant]

I can vouch for 6Gb or RAM. And a 1,000 Gb is wiser than a 500Gb one. Really price wise.

The provided Amazon link looks terrific though it only has a 4Gb RAM.

Does UAC help prevent hackers from messing critical files tyrant?
I ask because you seem to be in the know how of hacking.

yes and no
it did when it first came out it made many old malware obsolete, because if someone clicked on it a popup would ask "do you want to give it administrator rights", and administrator rights shouldn't be required for a random piece of software

but not much any more.
Most virus writers know how to do their thing without needing administrator rights.
link:http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2009/11/03/windows-7-vulnerable-8-10-viruses/

think about it this way
the hacker would first penetrate your system using a remote buffer overflow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_overflow#Exploitation
the hacker would then install a keylogger on your computer
it would log every key you type, and send it to the hacker.

both steps don't require UAC, and it would give the hacker your UAC password

Anyways, my advice
Are you behind a NAT?
aka, go in command prompt, and type in:
ipconfig

find your IP address, if it is something like:
10.*.*.*
or
172.*.*.*
or
192.168.*.* you are safe from most remote exploits
If not, get yourself a route

Now you should check for viruses and malware
Get your torrents and porn from reliable sources.
Beware of browser attacks, only go to reliable sites.
Get yourself a decent antivirus software

if your still getting hacked, you will need more drastic measures.

You might want to consider a network based firewall/ids
its not cheap though, but if the hacker hacking you can tunnel through you NAT, its probably a reasonable choice

Try a virtual machine or a separate computer for porn, torrents, and other internet uses.

Encrypt your sensitive files, use a good encryption software(i recommend true crypt)

The price of a network Firewall/IDS is quite expensive, so you might want ton consider a host based IDS like Snort

[the_tyrant]

2+4 GB? Well, okay, put on the list. Old Windows games hardly consume more than 4 GB anyway, so the full package for them. But do mainboards and Win7 support 6 GB? I would have thought they accept only 4 or 8 or 16 GB.


2gb *3 is better than 2gb+4gb
as long as a the mainboard has 3 slots, it should support 6gb

windows supports 6gb just fine, just remember to install a 64 bit system

[kiwi_2005]

Now you guys got me paraniod. I always have UAC turned off, I dont need to be told if I want to change such and such file. If im installing software I always choose custom install option as this way I can untick stupid apps like toolbars etc., by choosing recommended option toolbars automatically get installed if they come with the bundle. My computer consists of Games, MS office and anti virus apps & windows 7 firewall of course and windows is always updated. So really I don't need UAC on, unless I'm going to take a trip to undesirable sites which I ain't so being hacked is out of the question, I think...

[Skybird]

I ordered a system today, it will be built from individual components, they just wait for delivery of the new revision of the board I ordered. It was the shop I used to go to since years, it's good people in the knowledge of their stuff, and I have a good talking wire to them. After one hour, we agreed the make the following exchange in 7-10 days:

I give them 810 Euros and they give me

i5-2500 4x3.33 (costs the same like an i5 661 2x3.33)
Asus P8H67 3rd
8 GB DDR
1TB HD
GTX460 1GB
DVD burner
Chieftec tower + 750W Nitrox
add. fan
Windows 7 Home Prem 64 Bit

Good deal or not?! :shucks:

Oh, and it is USB 3.0.

:woot:

[the_tyrant]

My advice, just keep your old computing equipment, don't throw anything out
Reformat the systems and use it for specialized uses
For example i have a porn computer for porn

[the_tyrant]

I ordered a system today, it will be built from individual components, they just wait for delivery of the new revision of the board I ordered. It was the shop I used to go to since years, it's good people in the knowledge of their stuff, and I have a good talking wire to them. After one hour, we agreed the make the following exchange in 7-10 days:

I give them 810 Euros and they give me

i5-2500 4x3.33 (costs the same like an i5 661 2x3.33)
Asus P8H67 3rd
8 GB DDR
1TB HD
GTX460 1GB
DVD burner
Chieftec tower + 750W Nitrox
add. fan
Windows 7 Home Prem 64 Bit

Good deal or not?! :shucks:

Oh, and it is USB 3.0.

:woot:

Really not bad, cheaper than your previous estimates:salute:

[kiwi_2005]

I ordered a system today, it will be built from individual components, they just wait for delivery of the new revision of the board I ordered. It was the shop I used to go to since years, it's good people in the knowledge of their stuff, and I have a good talking wire to them. After one hour, we agreed the make the following exchange in 7-10 days:

I give them 810 Euros and they give me

i5-2500 4x3.33 (costs the same like an i5 661 2x3.33)
Asus P8H67 3rd
8 GB DDR
1TB HD
GTX460 1GB
DVD burner
Chieftec tower + 750W Nitrox
add. fan
Windows 7 Home Prem 64 Bit

Good deal or not?! :shucks:

Oh, and it is USB 3.0.

:woot:

Good enough, but one thing your missing unless you already have it is a nice large monitor especially if you tend to use the pc for gaming. Brought myself a 24inch viewsonic HD monitor. Amazing. :|\\

[Skybird]

I have a 21" WS, a Logitech Performance MX and a Logitech K800. ;)

The only thing I am not sure about is whether or not my Canon printer and Scanner will be compatible. I forgot to check that out. Well, too late now, and anyhow - if they are not, what should I do? Install XP again...?

[Skybird]

The only thing I am not sure about is whether or not my Canon printer and Scanner will be compatible.

They are. :D

[Castout]

yes and no
it did when it first came out it made many old malware obsolete, because if someone clicked on it a popup would ask "do you want to give it administrator rights", and administrator rights shouldn't be required for a random piece of software

but not much any more.
Most virus writers know how to do their thing without needing administrator rights.
link:http://nakedsecurity.sophos.com/2009/11/03/windows-7-vulnerable-8-10-viruses/

think about it this way
the hacker would first penetrate your system using a remote buffer overflow
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffer_overflow#Exploitation
the hacker would then install a keylogger on your computer
it would log every key you type, and send it to the hacker.

both steps don't require UAC, and it would give the hacker your UAC password

Anyways, my advice
Are you behind a NAT?
aka, go in command prompt, and type in:
ipconfig

find your IP address, if it is something like:
10.*.*.*
or
172.*.*.*
or
192.168.*.* you are safe from most remote exploits
If not, get yourself a route

Now you should check for viruses and malware
Get your torrents and porn from reliable sources.
Beware of browser attacks, only go to reliable sites.
Get yourself a decent antivirus software

if your still getting hacked, you will need more drastic measures.

You might want to consider a network based firewall/ids
its not cheap though, but if the hacker hacking you can tunnel through you NAT, its probably a reasonable choice

Try a virtual machine or a separate computer for porn, torrents, and other internet uses.

Encrypt your sensitive files, use a good encryption software(i recommend true crypt)

The price of a network Firewall/IDS is quite expensive, so you might want ton consider a host based IDS like Snort

Umm provided the hcker could go through the software firewall and its keylogger evade the AV detection. :DL. A lot of assumption there.

I ordered a system today, it will be built from individual components, they just wait for delivery of the new revision of the board I ordered. It was the shop I used to go to since years, it's good people in the knowledge of their stuff, and I have a good talking wire to them. After one hour, we agreed the make the following exchange in 7-10 days:

I give them 810 Euros and they give me

i5-2500 4x3.33 (costs the same like an i5 661 2x3.33)
Asus P8H67 3rd
8 GB DDR
1TB HD
GTX460 1GB
DVD burner
Chieftec tower + 750W Nitrox
add. fan
Windows 7 Home Prem 64 Bit

Good deal or not?! :shucks:

Oh, and it is USB 3.0.

:woot:

It's great 4x3.33 is better than 2x3.33!!! Damn it I feel bad now about buying my 2x3.33

It won't have threading but 4 real cores is better than simulated.

[Skybird]

Damn, my old Sidewinder FF wheel most likely will not work under Win7. And ideas for a reasonable replacement: FF, but not more than 100 Euros and available in Germany? The G27 is nice, but its price is not.

[Castout]

Damn, my old Sidewinder FF wheel most likely will not work under Win7. And ideas for a reasonable replacement: FF, but not more than 100 Euros and available in Germany? The G27 is nice, but its price is not.

If it worked in XP it probably will work in 7 too I think. Don't buy a new wheel yet until you're definitely sure it doesn't work in 7. I lose my force feedback in my joystick but other than that it still works well.

[Jan Kyster]

Damn, my old Sidewinder FF wheel most likely will not work under Win7...But it will, just don't install drivers - have a look here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180025

Lots of OT-posts, but they are all from Subsim Finest! :rotfl2:

[Skybird]

But it will, just don't install drivers - have a look here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180025

Lots of OT-posts, but they are all from Subsim Finest! :rotfl2:
I am about the Sidewinder FF wheel. Not the stick(s). ;) Google showed me that not a single poster asking about it was able to find a workaround. It does not even get recognised under W7, it seems. The no-software-installation-trick worked for XP, there I just connected it and was fine. Because XP recognised it all by itself.

[Skybird]

Castout, yes I don't throw it away early. I don't race much anymore, so buying one of the remaining few (and expensive) wheel models on the market today is not adorable for me.

But I expect to be in the need to do so sooner or later.

[Skybird]

My NSWP (new system welcome package :woot:) has arrived today, it looks like this:

http://img843.imageshack.us/img843/6821/img0937l.jpg (http://img843.imageshack.us/i/img0937l.jpg/)

Once the new rig is here, no SBP for me in the following weeks, I assume. :D

Now I just need a new chess program, but I am not sure that I like these new menus by Microsoft, what are they called in English? Ribbon menus? Also, I do not like the trend with Chessbase to now have two engine versions (single versus multiple CPUs, the latter costing twice the money, almpost 100 Euros), and selling the opening book separate: another 30 Euros. Maybe I just stay with the old software I have. If it becomes something new, it most likely will be the new Hiarcs or Rybka. But only if I do not need to invest into a new wheel.

Any recommendations for a good but not too expensive FFB wheel? The G27 is not acceptable for me (pricing). Something in the 90-150 euro range, please. Not many PC wheels seem to be around anymore, but some PS3-wheels that claim compatability with PC via new drivers. Example wopuld be the Logitech FF GT. Good one? Alternatives?

[goldorak]

I ordered a system today, it will be built from individual components, they just wait for delivery of the new revision of the board I ordered. It was the shop I used to go to since years, it's good people in the knowledge of their stuff, and I have a good talking wire to them. After one hour, we agreed the make the following exchange in 7-10 days:

I give them 810 Euros and they give me

i5-2500 4x3.33 (costs the same like an i5 661 2x3.33)
Asus P8H67 3rd
8 GB DDR
1TB HD
GTX460 1GB
DVD burner
Chieftec tower + 750W Nitrox
add. fan
Windows 7 Home Prem 64 Bit

Good deal or not?! :shucks:

Oh, and it is USB 3.0.

:woot:

In this day and age having a computer with only 1 hard disk is incomprehensibile. You should have bought 2 hard drives and put them in raid 1. At least if one of them goes kaput you still have your system going strong and can later add a new disk and mirror automatically.
In this way there is no need to backup your data on an external hard drive.

[Castout]

Whoops ArmA 2 Combined Operation! Make sure to try ACE 2!!! Won't regret it a bit! :yeah:

Shogun 2 Total war is not bad either if it's your thing. Probably not because sim is your thing and Total War is not a sim. :DL
Ext HDD is much safer for keeping backups as it's not always connected imo!

[Skybird]

Ext HDD is much safer for keeping backups as it's not always connected imo!
Right that.

However, there is a small chance a second internal drive will be added later in case I find that I have compatabolity issues with FS9 or GTR2. The second drive then becomes an XP boot. If there is no need for a separate XP boot, I do not need a second itnernal drive. That simple! To have a second drive just because it is en vogue, is no argument for me.

[goldorak]

Right that.

However, there is a small chance a second internal drive will be added later in case I find that I have compatabolity issues with FS9 or GTR2. The second drive then becomes an XP boot. If there is no need for a separate XP boot, I do not need a second itnernal drive. That simple! To have a second drive just because it is en vogue, is no argument for me.


Then you have misunderstood what raid 1 is about. Its not about having a backup, its about redunduncy so that when one of the hard drives fails you can still use your computer. With only 1 hard drive, if it fails you're going to be without a computer even if you have a backup on an external disk. :smug:

[Skybird]

Then you have misunderstood what raid 1 is about. Its not about having a backup, its about redunduncy so that when one of the hard drives fails you can still use your computer. With only 1 hard drive, if it fails you're going to be without a computer even if you have a backup on an external disk. :smug:

Rescue or windows disc after having mounted a new drive. Indeed the volume image function of W7 does exactly that - I have tried it out just three days ago on the W7 laptop of a friend of my parents. First it created an image to an external HD, then it burnt a rescue disk.

[goldorak]

Rescue or windows disc after having mounted a new drive. Indeed the volume image function of W7 does exactly that - I have tried it out just three days ago on the W7 laptop of a friend of my parents. First it created an image to an external HD, then it burnt a rescue disk.


Exactly. And from the moment the hard drive fails to the moment you install a new fresh drive your computer is down. See, with a raid 1 you wouldn't have to take down your pc, just take out the failing drive and put in a new one, all the while your pc is still working. No downtime.

And if you're worried that raid 1 doesn't work with xp don't. I have xp, and its installed in a raid 1 configuration with multiple partitions. I've had it since 2006, and in fact 1 year ago one of the drives went bad. No problem I still continued to use the computer while the new drive arrived. And then took out the failed drive and installed the new one. The system continued working and remade the raid 1 in the bakground automatically.

Believe me motherboards supporting raid 1 (even without a dedicated hardware controller) is one of those thing that make computing less stressing in case something goes bad. Not using this feature, with drives that cost pennies these days is just a bad tactic.

[Skybird]

The issue I rate as more liekly than hardware failure, is malware. and to have both drives permanently connected to the systems meas that if you detect a malware on one drive,m you cnanot trust the other any more.

And there you are in need to copy back a backup from an external source with an image, and manually copy all changed datafiles since the image was created.

I don'T know how fast Windows 7 will slow down over weeks and months (during booting), but with my old XP system i made it a habit to make a total cleanup and do a fresh install once a year. A RAID 1 does not store the original, fresh state of the installation on the day you built it, but accumulates all faults and changes and complications and slowdowns that have been stockpiled since then.

[Skybird]

Got a phone call from that shop just a minute ago.

:D

Ich bin dann mal weg...

:cool:

[Skybird]

I'm back with a wide big grin on my face! :yeah:It's fast, it's quiet, it looks good. And by mistake they gave me a Win7 Professional instead of the ordered Home Premium - but billed me for the latter.

I was lucky that they had ordered new boards with the new non-defective intel chips already a long time ago - else, so I learned today, i would have needed to wait until late April, or even May. That recall must have been a big and very costly mess for Intel. :o

[Castout]

You've got those B3 huh.

7 Professional arrrgh why lie is so unfair. :D

[Skybird]

:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

Less than 5 minutes after I typed about grining face and fast system - the whole new shine ended abruptly and brought me back to harsh life's reality.

System suddenly rebooted automaticall into a startup repair procedure, found some missing files, repaired them, rebooted again, scanned again, then had a system restore point activated from DOS screen, rebooted a third time and then produced errorcodes over startup repair procedures being offline, some number stuff, then auto failover and corrupted files, and finally a HD cycling through the latter steps over and over again. All the time booting started with "scanning devices, no device found!", but for six hours the system ran nevertheless. Ventilators are very qiet, so is the PSU, just the HD was amazingly loud.

:damn: :damn: :damn: :damn: :damn:

I think it is either the HD, or some controller on the mainboard. Typoing this from my old system again. I already have had options tweaking and installing done worth 6-7 hours.

:damn: :damn: oh, I already had that...

Gloomy mood, great disappointment - and no glorious new flyight simming over here. But a long sunday ahead instead.

Will use the opportunity to get another HD installed anyway. It was the only component I left to their choice, and they gave me a Hitachi with 16 cache, while all others they have have 32 cache - and down to one Euzro for exactly the saqme price (for a 1 TB drive). Want that WD they have instead.

If you have any theory what it could be, let me know.

[Skybird]

You've got those B3 huh.


Yes, an Asus P8H67-B3. If it is the mainboard and not the drive, then I am screwed. All 30 boards they got Friday morning, were already out of stock after just one and a half day. With my money gone I then can wait a very long time.

[Skybird]

I don'T believe it, the web is full of people hjaving the very same problem like I have:

First, the screen showed loading files(which i never seen before). Second, The screen showed my startup repair. While it was searching for the problems, Last, it said that it "Startup Repair cannot repair the computer automatically. And ive looked at the problem details:

Problem event name: StartupRepairOffline
Problem Signature 01: 6.1.7600.16385
Problem Signature 02: 6.1.7600.16385
Problem Signature 03: unknown
Problem Signature 04: -1
Problem Signature 05:AutoFailover
Problem Signature 06: 28
Problem Signature 07: Corrupt Registry


Some were given answers that they have changed their hardware. But I haven't changed hardware - the whole combo is brandnew...?!

[the_tyrant]

try this skybird:
plug the new drive into the old system
test the drive

or plug the old drive into the new system

[Skybird]

I cannot, the plugs and connectors don't match (very old system). However, this is the new system. I researched the web via the old machine, and found that many Vista and Win7 users run into this problem, usually without finding answers, it seems, just the error description is always the same.

It may have something to do with old code (old software) or hardware somehow messing up the way Windows takes track of the hardware configuration of its host, demanding a new activation when the system sees to many or too intense changes. Its a malfunction certainly, and could lead people into an en dless loop like the kind I saw before. I had to try to interrupt it via keyboard commands for half an hour, in endless attempts, to finally get the W7 disc in the drive starting to boot from CD instead the HD. I then was able to trigger a full new installation (repair led back into the loop).

Possible they messed up the basic installation in the shop (I had a constant minor hardware warning in hardware manager), which now is gone since I installed it all myself.

Let'S see if this holds now.

[Skybird]

More or less, I am through. :DL I stumbled over three major issues that costed me many hours to sort them out, but I got them all solved. I also migrated withiout major losses so far. Printer, Scanner, Wacom Tablet, DigiCamera all get recognised and are operating as they should, CH Fighterstick and Prothrottle gave me plenty of headaches and despair, but are now fully functional. Simped Pedals also work. The old wheel needed replacement, but I knew that in advance. I got myself a Thrustmaster FF430, and am blown away by the quality of it, the massive design and solid quality of it although it did not cost much more than my old Sidewinder back then. If I would have known that earlier, I would have replaced the wheel much earlier. :DL

My office software did not work, I had Works Suite 2005, but it did not run Words, no matter the compatability settings. It is rated by MS as incompatible anyway. I replaced it with Office Home&Student, because I do not like Open Office (I tried it two years ago and it crashed often, also I do not like its security exploits and the the fact that in large parts it is programmed in Java).

Despite being 64 Bit, my rig so far runs all sims I tried: for racing: RSRBR, NASCAR2003 and GTR2, and then of course SBP-PE, F4AF, and the new stuff like RoF, Arma2 and BlackShark anyway. What remains to be seen is FS9, which I will do at the very end only (40+ GB of installed material, I want it all kept close together), Oblivion, chess, and then I have all my classics together. The samller strategy games like WinSPMBT, TOAW3, Danube 85 and CotA seem to run, too, although I did not test them extensively so far.

So additional to the planned sum of money I had to put an additional and unplanned 200 bucks on the table for Office/Word and the wheel, but these are the only unsolvable issues I have had so far. Beside that, it all looks good, I like the new environment very much (Win7 is as great as Vista was bad!), and I think I can rate my migration as a more or less smooth transition. The troubles I had, were not meant to stay, so: all thumbs up!

:yeah::up::salute:

Oh, and yes: the system is fast as hell. :sunny: I run all and every sim detail maxed out - with absolute smooth frames.