SH5 LET DOWN

[mash71]

hi all
im not bad mouthing sh5, i like the sim, just find it annoying having to move the captian around the boat to do tasks, wish they had kept the game play the same as sh3 and 4. why fix something if its not broken ?
i seem to be going back to sh3 more and more. plus i dont like the way it can only be used with a connection, which stops me using it on my laptop when traveling. anyone feel the same ?
PS i also heard of people playing sh3 in multiplayer battles. is this true

cheers

[TheDarkWraith]

UI mods have been made to bring the SH3 (one also allows SH4 style) of controls back to SH5. check the SH5 MODS forum.

[Drewcifer]

All the functionality of sh3 has been returned to sh5. as for moving around.. honestly I moved the 'free cam' around in sh3 as if I was the captain for immersion purposes.. so I love the first person captain feel of sh5.

The only thing sh3 has now is additional content.. that is it. And sh3 has had alot more time to BUILD that library of content... sh5 is working on it and it will get there and pass it.

[brett25]

he only thing sh3 has now is additional content.. that is it

I disagree with this statement. Sh3 gameplay is much better IMHO. Mind you I play SH5 occasionally, and like it for different reasons, but I dont belive SH5 comes anywhere close to SH3.:salute:

[Ducimus]

It just occured to me, that in 10 years from now, people will still be praising SH3 as the best submarine sim, regardless of what's done to improve SH4 or 5. :haha:

[mash71]

the darkwreith.
never knew there was mods for sh5. ill have a look for that.
cheers

[Ducimus]

the darkwreith.
never knew there was mods for sh5. ill have a look for that.
cheers

Go D/L his megamod. It's nothing short of Kick ass, and has more customizeable user options then you can shake a stick at.
edit: Just make sure you've patched the game through the online patcher. (gu.exe), don't shortcut directly to the exe. At least, not until AFTER you've patched.

[Drewcifer]

It just occured to me, that in 10 years from now, people will still be praising SH3 as the best submarine sim, regardless of what's done to improve SH4 or 5. :haha:

I know and its getting slightly ridiculous given the state of the games, most of the die hard sh3 fans act like sh5 is a leper or something...

[Ducimus]

I know and its getting slightly ridiculous given the state of the games, most of the die hard sh3 fans act like sh5 is a leper or something...

The irony is it gives a fair number of them, exactly what they seem to want. :O:

edit: realistically, its a combination of bugs and lack of type 9 i think.

[iambecomelife]

The irony is it gives a fair number of them, exactly what they seem to want. :O:

edit: realistically, its a combination of bugs and lack of type 9 i think.


Not to beat a dead horse, but anyway, here goes:

1) Shortened campaign (huge step back from SH3!)
2) Only one main sub type (again, a step back)
3) No fully functional AI subs
4) Too many scripted gameplay elements
5) Related to 4, an overly scripted campaign with unrealistic goals
6) Poor immersion factor (compare "Aces of the Deep" - newspapers, the bar, etc)
6) Poor AI out of the box
7) Very awkward interface out of the box
8) Cartoonish characters & gameplay elements
9) Not enough units, and serious difficulty adding new ones so far

[Castout]

most of the die hard sh3 fans act like sh5 is a leper or something...

What do you mean it's not?! :shifty:

:O:

[reignofdeath]

What do you mean it's not?! :shifty:

:O:

I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole..... :shifty:.... for real though, once Iget a computer that can handle it I will be getting Sh5. Im in firm belief with time Sh5 will surpass Sh3 by leaps and bounds.. now if we only could get our hands on the SDK :)

[dcb]

Add to everything that was written here an inept campaign, and let me explain.
I just ended three missions and completed the British Supplies (or whatever it's called) first objective of the game. You know, sink 50K tons on the Eastern Approaches.
In all three missions I never saw one escort. Period. Nobody came at me after sinking ships 50 km off the Brit coast, no plane, no destroyer, nobody. And each of these guys radioed for help... the "Submarine sighted," "I'm going down" kind of messages. During the whole three missions, patrolling on surface in the range of Brit airbases, I was only attacked by 2 planes, which I was able to avoid without much hassle.
This lack of response is a real immersion killer. Whereas in ther GWX campaigns I already had to be on the alert and carefully choose my victims, from fear of being attacked afterwards in shallow water, now I can do whatever I please, without fearing anything.
In the last mission, I sunk about half of the Brit merchant fleet:D when I found a totally unescorted convoy (6 ships), some 100 km off the British coast. After about two hours of attacks (game time) and sinking all of them, partly by deck gun, still nobody cared to answer their calls for help.
Speak about immersion & realism:down:

[Castout]

I'm buying Starforce free Silent Hunter 3 for a little more than 30 bucks than buying SH5 with about the same price.

I got a new computer which I would not pollute with starforce which will eventually kill the Disc drive. It had killed 2 Disc drives in my old PC :dead:. So I haven't been playing for quite a while.

[Bilge_Rat]

Not to beat a dead horse, but anyway, here goes:

but since you are...

1) Shortened campaign

The campaign covers 1939-43 which is the most interesting part of the war and is already longer than the career of 99% of U-Boat commanders, plus there is already a mod which extends the war to 45.


2) Only one main sub type

design choice: one fully modelled U-Boat or many partly modeled U-Boats. I don't see anyone saying DCS:A-10 is a failure because it only models...one airplane.
3) No fully functional AI subs

...and no AI subs whatsover in stock SH3.
4) Too many scripted gameplay elements

not true, you can play SH5 exactly as SH3/4.
5) Related to 4, an overly scripted campaign with unrealistic goals

In SH3, you are ordered to navigate to a point in the ocean, orbit around it for 48 hours, after which you are free to ge anywhere in the world, something which never happened in real life.

In SH5, you are given an area of operation, a goal and a time frame. For example "Drumbeat", sink 50,000 tons in 6 months. Many U-Boat aces were able to reach that goal.

still not perfect, but SH5 is an improvement over SH3 in that area.
6) Poor immersion factor (compare "Aces of the Deep" - newspapers, the bar, etc)

does'nt this contradict #4 above? :hmmm:

SH5 is actually the most immersive of the SH series: being able to walk all over the boat, watching your crew moving about, hearing the reports, chatting with your crew, checking the 3d dials, it does'nt get more immersive than that.


7) Poor AI out of the box

the stock SH3 AI was dumb as rocks and easy to evade. Worse, they would fire on one another.

SH5 brings a lot of innovations to the AI, alert states, scripting. The AI in the IRAI mod is one of the best I have seen in any submarine sim.


8) Very awkward interface out of the box

the SH5 interface brings a lot of innovations and is actually one of the best part of the game: no longer having your scope locked to the middle of the ships, being able to directly input a solution in the TDC, being able to shift between stations while paused, incorporating the attack map in other stations.

now if you are talking about the fact that SH3 has little dials while SH5 has little bars, there are already mods out there that allow to change the UI to whatever you want. In my case, I just got rid of the interface altogether and I get my info from actually reading the dials in the boat, as a real skipper would..:ping:
9) Cartoonish characters & gameplay elements

aren't you repeating #4 for a 3rd time..:hmmm:

SH3 has 3d crew in the boat that you can interact with. SH5 has better made 3d crew that you can interact with.

10) Not enough units, and serious difficulty adding new ones so far

I will give you that point.

so sh3 wins one category (#10), SH5 wins 5 (#3, #5, #6, #7, #8) and the rest are ties.

SH5 rules. :woot:

[Victor Schutze]

SH5 rules. :woot:[/QUOTE]

This is a typo, he meant SH3:O:

[cherbert]

The AI in the IRAI mod is one of the best I have seen in any submarine sim.

What is the IRAI mod? Is it included in the MegaMod?

[Bilge_Rat]

What is the IRAI mod? Is it included in the MegaMod?


yes, its included in TDW's Magnum Opus.

[Sailor Steve]

but since you are...
Good point. On the othe hand IABL raises honest points, and you answered with honest counterpoints, which is refreshing in this web world of "Mine rulez, yours sux!"

I would, however, like to address what I've seen so far of both sides.

The campaign covers 1939-43 which is the most interesting part of the war and is already longer than the career of 99% of U-Boat commanders, plus there is already a mod which extends the war to 45.
This is good news. SH1 allowed the player to begin a career in any month of the war. No sim before or since has matched that, though SH3 does so with a mod, and I'm hoping SH5 will someday.

design choice: one fully modelled U-Boat or many partly modeled U-Boats. I don't see anyone saying DCS:A-10 is a failure because it only models...one airplane.
On the other hand this sim isn't titled SH:Type VII. That said, I fully understand and support their choice. I disagree with it, but I understand and support it.

On the other hand, for the person who likes to play in the Type II or Type IX, SH5 has nothing to offer at all, so it's easy to understand why that person might prefer the older game. It's also easy to understand why that player may find SH5 to be disappointing, despite all the improvements someone who plays it can point to.

...and no AI subs whatsover in stock SH3.
Also true. On the other hand that was one of the improvements asked for and promised. SH5 is full of "improvements" that aren't quite realized or finished. The biggest disappointment seems to be the flaws left over from previous versions that should have been fixed, but are still there.

not true, you can play SH5 exactly as SH3/4.

In SH3, you are ordered to navigate to a point in the ocean, orbit around it for 48 hours, after which you are free to ge anywhere in the world, something which never happened in real life.[/quote]
Actually it's only 24 hours. I've explained many times why that is, but the bottom line is you're right, it shouldn't be that way.

In SH5, you are given an area of operation, a goal and a time frame. For example "Drumbeat", sink 50,000 tons in 6 months. Many U-Boat aces were able to reach that goal.
On the other hand no u-boat kaleun was ever tasked to sink a set amount of tonnage in any time-frame.

still not perfect, but SH5 is an improvement over SH3 in that area.
No, it's just bad in a different way. :O:

does'nt this contradict #4 above? :hmmm:
Not really. The immersion IABL spoke of there involved what happened between patrols.

SH5 is actually the most immersive of the SH series: being able to walk all over the boat, watching your crew moving about, hearing the reports, chatting with your crew, checking the 3d dials, it does'nt get more immersive than that.
Watching your severely limited crew walk about (though there is a mod in the works to fix that)? Have the same conversation over and over and over? Boost morale by feeding them properly?

In SH3 you can check the 3D dials as well.

the stock SH3 AI was dumb as rocks and easy to evade. Worse, they would fire on one another.
All too true.

SH5 brings a lot of innovations to the AI, alert states, scripting. The AI in the IRAI mod is one of the best I have seen in any submarine sim.
Have you ever played AOTD?

I skipped the rest of your points for the simple reason that they're all valid and all true.

so sh3 wins one category (#10), SH5 wins 5 (#3, #5, #6, #7, #8) and the rest are ties.
It shouldn't be about winning or losing. The fact is that people who love SH5 have very good reasons for doing so. The other fact is that people who dislike SH5 have very good reasons for doing so, and that shouldn't be. It's true that some of the people who praise SH3 have devolved to the level of fanboys, but it's also true that some of the people who praise SH5 are no different. And it's true that some of the people who stick with SH3 simply want the things that SH5 still doesn't offer.

SH5 rules. :woot:
Not quite yet, but it should and it probably will.

[Ducimus]

Not to beat a dead horse, but anyway,


I'll just preface my response in saying that my previous post was based on having acutally tried some of the latest mods for this game. So some of the arguments you have, i'm going to go ahead and cross off your list now.


here goes:

1) Shortened campaign (huge step back from SH3!)

Now extended to 45 I believe.

2) Only one main sub type (again, a step back)

No argument there. Ive always been partial to type 9's.

3) No fully functional AI subs

And SH3 has these? *cough*

4) Too many scripted gameplay elements

You'd have to elaborate there. Thats vauge to me.

5) Related to 4, an overly scripted campaign with unrealistic goals

Unrealistic goals are adjustable, and probably already have. You know, i have to ask, has it ever occured to anyone your not supposed to reach 200,000 tons or whatever it is? That's what Germany would need to win that scenario. It's always been my sneaky suspicion that by lowering the goals, you alter the scenario where Germany always wins. It's not supposed to win!

6) Poor immersion factor (compare "Aces of the Deep" - newspapers, the bar, etc)

Not Das boot enough for you? Really? The das boot experience is all uboat fans ramble on about. Here you have a game, an entire game based after Das Boot, whats not to like?

6) Poor AI out of the box

Pretty sure thats fixed. TDW's done alot of work on that, at the script level. Not just hacking sensors like you are I would have done.

7) Very awkward interface out of the box

THAT is most definatly fixed. TDW's UI, IMO, is better then 3 or 4. Its just different. If your stuck in the past, and expect things to be specific ways, then i guess everything will appear awkward to you.

8) Cartoonish characters & gameplay elements

Everybody who's partial to one SH game, always says the other ones look cartoonish.

9) Not enough units, and serious difficulty adding new ones so far
No argument there.


Look, its not my intention to sit here and defend Sh5. I'm not even playing it, i don't even have it installed right now. BUT, i DID try it, WITH the latest mods (TDW mega mod beta). I think all im really saying, (and this is probably because i've done alot of modding myself), is to not knock the game until you've tried it with the latest mods. Given the amount and type of work done on the game, I think it's way past the time to evaluate the game at its vanilla value.

Aside from that, If you'll recall, SH3 sucked balls in its first couple years too. Everyone seems to forget that. Only there wasn't much to compare it to at the time, so everything has now become rose tinted glasses with SH3.

Now if you'll excuse me, i have to get back to working on SH4.

[Bilge_Rat]

It shouldn't be about winning or losing.



Agreed. All these "my sim is better than your sim" arguments are getting a bit silly.

Whatever subsim a player enjoys playing IS the best one.

[scrapser]

I wouldnt touch it with a 10 foot pole..... :shifty:.... for real though, once Iget a computer that can handle it I will be getting Sh5. Im in firm belief with time Sh5 will surpass Sh3 by leaps and bounds.. now if we only could get our hands on the SDK :)

I have a 10 foot pole for touching things with. I also have an 11 foot pole for touching things I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

[Drewcifer]

I know and its getting slightly ridiculous given the state of the games, most of the die hard sh3 fans act like sh5 is a leper or something...

I wasn't starting a flame war. Let me start by saying I LOVE SH period. I love German Uboats. I love Naval Warefare.

Ok.. now that we got that out of the way, if you want to play SH3 because at this point it IS more polished and more complete then sh5, then by all means do so.

The biggest problem I have is the diehard SH3 crew keeps pointing at promises, and OUT of the box performance.. I know it was a while ago since you opened that fresh new box but trust me Sh3 was bugged up. Go ahead uninstall GWX.. go vanilla and run a patrol I'll wait....

Ok back? Yeah. Exactly. As for this Mine Are Better Then Yours talk... that wasn't at all what I was attempting to insight.. I'm annoyed that people are still wearing biohazard suits around Sh5 conversations like its got some sort of terrible virus. That is it.

[Trevally.]

I have a 10 foot pole for touching things with. I also have an 11 foot pole for touching things I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.

:hmmm: he either needs big shoes or many shoes:D

[Drewcifer]

Or a bigger pole?

[Sailor Steve]

I have a 10 foot pole for touching things with. I also have an 11 foot pole for touching things I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole.
:rotfl2::rotfl2::rotfl2:

Soda-spiller of the day! :rock:

[reignofdeath]

I wasn't starting a flame war. Let me start by saying I LOVE SH period. I love German Uboats. I love Naval Warefare.

Ok.. now that we got that out of the way, if you want to play SH3 because at this point it IS more polished and more complete then sh5, then by all means do so.

The biggest problem I have is the diehard SH3 crew keeps pointing at promises, and OUT of the box performance.. I know it was a while ago since you opened that fresh new box but trust me Sh3 was bugged up. Go ahead uninstall GWX.. go vanilla and run a patrol I'll wait....

Ok back? Yeah. Exactly. As for this Mine Are Better Then Yours talk... that wasn't at all what I was attempting to insight.. I'm annoyed that people are still wearing biohazard suits around Sh5 conversations like its got some sort of terrible virus. That is it.

I think maybe the problem with those two statements I highlighted though is the fact that they were promises as to out of the box performance.

And the fact that after 2 previous installations in which many bugs were brought to the attention of the developers (Ive seen it around that they frequent this website and know very well about the bugs) They still seem to never fix them and are content with pushing something out that isnt so much a simulation but a game wrapped with bells and whistles.

Granted, it can be anything from Ubi telling them to hurry up and not giving them enough timeframe, but you would think that after doing this twice before they would have known right off the bat what needs fixed and what doesnt based on the previous installment.

Not knocking Sh5 at all, just offering an opinion.

[wingtip]

i like the sim, just find it annoying having to move the captian around the boat to do tasks, wish they had kept the game play the same as sh3 and 4.


Although I havent bought sh5 yet, and probably wont, I too agree the captain having to run around is annoying, however, i feel they are heading in the right direction. Modelling the inside of the boat and making characters interactive is the future of gaming...especially in a submarine scenario...

The day they can make the other AI characters really really really good with voice recognition and i mean leaps and bounds better than we currently can do it will be a total blast to be captain!

[brett25]

IMHO it seems like the SH5 guys tend to pounce on anyone who likes SH3 better (like we are somehow stuck in the mud and dont know any better), I merely said, in my opinion, SH3 has better game play, and Iambl simply went into some more detail why that would be true. SailorSteve ended this post for my tastes and nicely summed up what needs to be said. Surely one can prefer SH3 over SH5, I never said anything negative about SH5. You guys have done a fantastic job with modding SH5, which i play, and im sure that trend will continue

Whatever subsim a player enjoys playing IS the best one. :rock:

[reignofdeath]

I'm buying Starforce free Silent Hunter 3 for a little more than 30 bucks than buying SH5 with about the same price.

I got a new computer which I would not pollute with starforce which will eventually kill the Disc drive. It had killed 2 Disc drives in my old PC :dead:. So I haven't been playing for quite a while.

not to be a troll but how exactly DID starforce kill the disc drive??

[ddrgn]

I know and its getting slightly ridiculous given the state of the games, most of the die hard sh3 fans act like sh5 is a leper or something...

ooooo ahhh that made me laugh :rotfl2:

[Krauter]

Not to beat a dead horse, but anyway, here goes:

1) Shortened campaign (huge step back from SH3!)
2) Only one main sub type (again, a step back)
3) No fully functional AI subs
4) Too many scripted gameplay elements
5) Related to 4, an overly scripted campaign with unrealistic goals
6) Poor immersion factor (compare "Aces of the Deep" - newspapers, the bar, etc)
6) Poor AI out of the box
7) Very awkward interface out of the box
8) Cartoonish characters & gameplay elements
9) Not enough units, and serious difficulty adding new ones so far

1# Mod that extends Campaign

2#Privateer is working on a modding utility

3# TDW implemented this ;)

4# Define scripted gameplay elements? How is it any different from the scripted elements in 3 & 4

5# Similar to other games... Also, there is a Light Campaign Mod which limits the crazy objectives.. Also, if they bother you so much. Ignore them!

6#Contradictory.. :timeout: Also, how is walking around your sub, seeing things in 3d happen in front of you.. not immersive :hmmm:

7#Moddable, if you're running vanilla SH5 its your problem, same as if you were running vanilla Sh3 or 4.

#8 Characters are actually rendered a lot better then 3 and 4 (SH4 with the "hollywood" graffics..)

9# Again, privateer is adding a utility for this.

never knew there was mods for sh5. ill have a look for that.

This is the main problem in my opinion. Sh3 guys come into this game (excuse me.. some.. I don't mean to generalize) expecting it to be just as good as GWX SH3 out of the box.

Do me a favor. Go play Sh3 vanilla. Now play SH5.. See the difference and improvements?

GIVE IT TIME!

Krauter

[Jester_UK]

As always I guess different people want different things from their gaming experience. I've played SH3, SH4 and now that Ubi have relaxed the DRM requirements a bit, SH5.

I bought SH4 and SH5 through Steam which gave me some interesting statistics, such as that I have already clocked up nearly double the hours in SH5 I did in SH4.

Now I'll be the first to admit that, if it wasn't for the work of guys like The Dark Wraith and Sober, chances are I wouldn't have spent so long with it (and the fact that at the moment I have far too much free time on my hands!), but I find the immersion factor when modded is incredible in SH5.

All I can say is try some of the mods that are out there. Get rid of the silly dayglow halos around the characters you can interact with and as Krauter said, give it time.

[Cpt. Grouch]

Dude it is not that bad. The mods have come a long way. Besides, its been out a while now, I thought these sorts of sentiments were behind us now.

[iambecomelife]

1# Mod that extends Campaign

2#Privateer is working on a modding utility

3# TDW implemented this ;)

4# Define scripted gameplay elements? How is it any different from the scripted elements in 3 & 4

5# Similar to other games... Also, there is a Light Campaign Mod which limits the crazy objectives.. Also, if they bother you so much. Ignore them!

6#Contradictory.. :timeout: Also, how is walking around your sub, seeing things in 3d happen in front of you.. not immersive :hmmm:

7#Moddable, if you're running vanilla SH5 its your problem, same as if you were running vanilla Sh3 or 4.

#8 Characters are actually rendered a lot better then 3 and 4 (SH4 with the "hollywood" graffics..)

9# Again, privateer is adding a utility for this.



This is the main problem in my opinion. Sh3 guys come into this game (excuse me.. some.. I don't mean to generalize) expecting it to be just as good as GWX SH3 out of the box.

Do me a favor. Go play Sh3 vanilla. Now play SH5.. See the difference and improvements?

GIVE IT TIME!

Krauter

"Do me a favor" sure, the day I owe you one.

@ #2. Wow; I didn't know that. I've only been corresponding with Privateer constantly on that thread. And working on my own to import new units, and preparing my merchant ship mod for eventual SH5 use. I happen to love SH5's environmental FX & human models, and I think it's ill-served by a number of limitations. In between modding Sh3 and 4 I am doing what I can to address this issue. Do review what "out of the box" means.

#3 - Seriously - do we know yet what out of the box means, kids?

#6 - ....and do we know what contradictory means?


"Sh3 guys come into this game (excuse me.. some.. I don't mean to generalize) expecting it to be just as good as GWX SH3 out of the box. "

Find the post where I said this. Ahhh...there it is, in the thread announcing "Silent Hunter 6: Battle of the Strawman.":roll:

"7#Moddable, if you're running vanilla SH5 its your problem, same as if you were running vanilla Sh3 or 4."

Reading [in]comprehension is everyone's problem. Maybe a reference to SH5 "out of the box" means SH5 "out of the box".:rotfl2:

[mobucks]

why even mention "out of the box" at this point?

[iambecomelife]

why even mention "out of the box" at this point?
Because someone didn't read my post clearly.

[Bilge_Rat]

Because someone didn't read my post clearly.


No, it's just that no one cares about these childish arguments anymore.

[iambecomelife]

No, it's just that no one cares about these childiss [sic] arguments anymore.

Not so. Some people still care way too much and seem to take criticism of SH5 poorly. Not even being active in efforts to improve the game is enough to escape criticism. Or acknowledging that SH5 is a huge step forward in certain areas, like environmental effects, crew models, and so on.

Thankfully, most SH5 players indeed don't respond this way, and don't throw up a bunch of asinine strawmen. For reasonable people it's just another game - neither magnificent nor terrible - with its own unique flaws and innovations.

[Drewcifer]

Not so. Some people still care way too much and seem to take criticism of SH5 poorly. Not even being active in efforts to improve the game is enough to escape criticism. Or acknowledging that SH5 is a huge step forward in certain areas, like environmental effects, crew models, and so on.

Thankfully, most SH5 players indeed don't respond this way, and don't throw up a bunch of asinine strawmen. For reasonable people it's just another game - neither magnificent nor terrible - with its own unique flaws and innovations.


Well I see its still cool to come off like an arrogant know it all.

Gold Star you win. Thread dead.

[Sailor Steve]

Well I see its still cool to come off like an arrogant know it all.
Considering what he's done for SH3 and is attempting to do for SH5, I'd say he knows what he's talking about.

Gold Star you win. Thread dead.
You were talking about arrogant? On the other hand, since you gave me a laugh that I've catalogued for 'Post of the Year' consideration I'm glad to cut you some slack too.

So back up and take a deep breath, both of you, or I'll call Frau Kaleun and her angry Wombat. :O:

[iambecomelife]

Well I see its [sic] still cool to come off like an arrogant know it all.

Gold Star you win. Thread dead.


No; IT'S inappropriate to take criticism of SH5 personally. IT'S also inappropriate to use misdirection in your arguments, through strawmen, etc.

Oh, and just so you know, there is no SH6 Strawman game coming out. I swear, you and what's-his-name probably ARE looking for that thread, if only to prove his hyperbole was warranted. So thanks for tacitly admitting (through a content-free post) that you can't back up what he wrote (again, point me to the post saying SH5 must be as good as GWX out of the box.)

[Drewcifer]

Yeah he knows what he's talking about and he IS making valid points.

I just don't like his condescending, borderline immature little remarks.

"Do me a favor" sure, the day I owe you one. - Slightly uncalled for but.. I let it pass.


@ #2. Wow; I didn't know that. I've only been corresponding with Privateer constantly on that thread. And working on my own to import new units, and preparing my merchant ship mod for eventual SH5 use. I happen to love SH5's environmental FX & human models, and I think it's ill-served by a number of limitations. In between modding Sh3 and 4 I am doing what I can to address this issue. Do review what "out of the box" means. - This is not common knowledge.. and the slight hint of smug superiority I would say this could have been worded better..

#3 - Seriously - do we know yet what out of the box means, kids? - Yet another comment from atop his mighty throne. Kids? Really?

Oh, and just so you know, there is no SH6 Strawman game coming out. I swear, you and what's-his-name probably ARE looking for that thread, if only to prove his stupid hyperbole was warranted. - And of course again, one more comment from atop the mighty throne of greatness.

You make valid points, and you could have continued the debate making your points. Instead you decided to come off classless and rude. For really no reason, I don't really see the motive to make comments in that nature, honestly.

[iambecomelife]

Yeah he knows what he's talking about and he IS making valid points.

I just don't like his condescending, borderline immature little remarks.

"Do me a favor" sure, the day I owe you one. - Slightly uncalled for but.. I let it pass.


@ #2. Wow; I didn't know that. I've only been corresponding with Privateer constantly on that thread. And working on my own to import new units, and preparing my merchant ship mod for eventual SH5 use. I happen to love SH5's environmental FX & human models, and I think it's ill-served by a number of limitations. In between modding Sh3 and 4 I am doing what I can to address this issue. Do review what "out of the box" means. - This is not common knowledge.. and the slight hint of smug superiority I would say this could have been worded better..

#3 - Seriously - do we know yet what out of the box means, kids? - Yet another comment from atop his mighty throne. Kids? Really?

Oh, and just so you know, there is no SH6 Strawman game coming out. I swear, you and what's-his-name probably ARE looking for that thread, if only to prove his stupid hyperbole was warranted. - And of course again, one more comment from atop the mighty throne of greatness.

You make valid points, and you could have continued the debate making your points. Instead you decided to come off classless and rude. For really no reason, I don't really see the motive to make comments in that nature, honestly.

Ah! Back from searching for that thread I mentioned. How's it going?

"Instead you decided to come off classless and rude."

Your "gold star" comment was the height of politeness, sweetheart.

IMHO your capacity for remaining consistent is roughly equal to your debating skills. Again, point me to the thread where I demanded that SH5 be the equivalent of GWX out of the box. I'm sure that you can do this, and that you're not just misdirecting because deep down you don't believe the garbage strawman argument that was put up earlier.

[Drewcifer]

While my Gold Star comment was my own crowning achevievment of rude, I see your ever attempting to raise the bar for yourself, Buttercup.

[iambecomelife]

While my Gold Star comment was my own crowning achevievment of rude, I see your [sic] ever attempting to raise the bar for yourself, Buttercup.

I tried to emphasize that SH5 is a flawed game that turned off some people right at the outset. I did not say it was worthless, that it was not worth improving, etc. In fact, I am trying to do this myself. If YOUR (ha!) too slow to read posts before wading in, well...

[Takeda Shingen]

Let's all take it down a notch, thanks.

The Management

[Drewcifer]

As was SH3 and 4. Which I played, and enjoyed. So I'm still failing to see why SH5 is reacted to as if it has some sort of Keyboard transmitted STD?

With the exception of the FIRST SH.. I think they all were pretty much a game completely reliant upon the subsim community and mods.

[iambecomelife]

As was SH3 and 4. Which I played, and enjoyed. So I'm still failing to see why SH5 is reacted to as if it has some sort of Keyboard transmitted STD?

With the exception of the FIRST SH.. I think they all were pretty much a game completely reliant upon the subsim community and mods.


Wow. From criticism of SOME issues with the game to ... venereal disease? Not my area of expertise; thanks.

As fascinating as these ailments might be to some people on the forums, I'd rather concentrate on enjoying what the various SH's do best. And occasionally try to mod 5, while reserving the right to point out the things it doesn't do well yet.

[Bilge_Rat]

Look, its not my intention to sit here and defend Sh5. I'm not even playing it, i don't even have it installed right now. BUT, i DID try it, WITH the latest mods (TDW mega mod beta). I think all im really saying, (and this is probably because i've done alot of modding myself), is to not knock the game until you've tried it with the latest mods. Given the amount and type of work done on the game, I think it's way past the time to evaluate the game at its vanilla value.

Aside from that, If you'll recall, SH3 sucked balls in its first couple years too. Everyone seems to forget that. Only there wasn't much to compare it to at the time, so everything has now become rose tinted glasses with SH3.

Now if you'll excuse me, i have to get back to working on SH4.

All good points Ducimus...especially the last one. :ping:

[Webster]

to understand the positions people take on comparing sh3 to sh4 or to sh5 you must first consider the frame of mind the person is judging things

to some what is THE most important thing about the game is its realistic environments

to others what is THE most important thing about the game is its realistic gameplay

and to others what is THE most important thing about the game is its just about ease of playability and game bugs

so when you find it very hard to understand someone elses viewpoint about the game that you dont share, then first try to be objective and understand the position from which a person views whats important to the game because it is very likely not going to be the same criteria as yours but that just means that we are all different and want different things.

you shouldnt take it upon yourself to try and change the minds of others but rather just understand where they are coming from with their views

this post is ment for no one in particular but just my thoughts on opinions that differ

[Krauter]

Woah take it easy. Christ I'm only defending the game on points I see are being worked on or have been fixed.

Sure you may have done a lot for SH3/4 and getting on with it in 5, but it does not give you carte blanche to knock other peoples views as stupid or treat others as below your level.

I believe Sh5, as the rest of the Silent Hunter series are, is a great game, but has its quirks that need to be worked on.

Oh and my name isnt what's his name. It's Krauter :O:

[iambecomelife]

To Krauter and Drewcifer, the sarcasm & personal comments were excessive and I apologize.

I stand by my concerns about SH5; I have a strong opinion about it precisely because it is very nearly the ultimate subsim experience. Once again, ubi's programmers earned their salaries a hundred times over when it comes to character models & effects. Ship models + the new terrain are great. The dynamic campaign, although flawed, is good, and I appreciate ubi not going the 100% scripted route.

This makes the remaining issues with it all the more frustrating. There are few sims of any kinds left, and this makes us feel strongly about them in a way you don't feel for, say, the latest FPS.

Still, that's no reason to be rude, so I am sorry for some of the earlier comments on this thread.

[SeaWolf U-57]

Considering what he's done for SH3 and is attempting to do for SH5, I'd say he knows what he's talking about.


You were talking about arrogant? On the other hand, since you gave me a laugh that I've catalogued for 'Post of the Year' consideration I'm glad to cut you some slack too.

So back up and take a deep breath, both of you, or I'll call Frau Kaleun and her angry Wombat. :O:

This has got to be a fist class post that shows just what is happening
to these forums.
The first point it states .... that another member has modded certain versions
of the game so he knows what he is talking about.
Is this not a typical reaction of a little group of close nit members who do conceder
themselves above all others.

The second point ..... "since you gave me a laugh that I've catalogued for 'Post of the Year' consideration I'm glad to cut you some slack too"....
So having a little gold star under your user name also means you are above other members also
as seen in a different thread where a member was ripped about other subs but
because it was done by Gold star wearers and friends it was ok.

Looks like a return of the days gone by to me or did they ever leave :hmmm:

[Takeda Shingen]

This has got to be a fist class post that shows just what is happening
to these forums.
The first point it states .... that another member has modded certain versions
of the game so he knows what he is talking about.
Is this not a typical reaction of a little group of close nit members who do conceder
themselves above all others.

The second point ..... "since you gave me a laugh that I've catalogued for 'Post of the Year' consideration I'm glad to cut you some slack too"....
So having a little gold star under your user name also means you are above other members also
as seen in a different thread where a member was ripped about other subs but
because it was done by Gold star wearers and friends it was ok.

Looks like a return of the days gone by to me or did they ever leave :hmmm:

It seems to me that Steve was just trying to defuse a tense situation, and was using humor to do so. Also, since this is the second time that you have gone after someone who had recieved an award, I'll point out that going after someone because they recieved recognition from the community isn't very nice at all.

[SeaWolf U-57]

And that is all you see isn't it :nope:

[Takeda Shingen]

And that is all you see isn't it :nope:

Well, you've clearly got a beef with people that have one of those 'Best of' badges, so I suppose that I'm included in that. On my part, I'm sorry that you're upset about something. I wish that I could help.

[Drewcifer]

To Krauter and Drewcifer, the sarcasm & personal comments were excessive and I apologize.

I stand by my concerns about SH5; I have a strong opinion about it precisely because it is very nearly the ultimate subsim experience. Once again, ubi's programmers earned their salaries a hundred times over when it comes to character models & effects. Ship models + the new terrain are great. The dynamic campaign, although flawed, is good, and I appreciate ubi not going the 100% scripted route.

This makes the remaining issues with it all the more frustrating. There are few sims of any kinds left, and this makes us feel strongly about them in a way you don't feel for, say, the latest FPS.

Still, that's no reason to be rude, so I am sorry for some of the earlier comments on this thread.

For me personally I don't feel you need to apologize, things went off the map for a bit.. But I think we all realized we went to far.. and for me the whole thing is yesterdays news.

Sh5 has a long way to go, thats the short answer. But it is coming into its own now and is 'starting' to be deserving of being put on the shelf 'near' sh3. When people make comments like "I haven't played, and I don't ever plan on playing sh5.." Its just getting old. Its completely asinine that we have this political divide between sh3, sh5. alot of the modders that made sh3 great, are working on sh5... We are the subsim community.. end of story.

Every Point you made was valid... and I agree with you, just not the way you said them to me. If that makes sense.

[SeaWolf U-57]

For me personally I don't feel you need to apologize, things went off the map for a bit.. But I think we all realized we went to far.. and for me the whole thing is yesterdays news.

Sh5 has a long way to go, thats the short answer. But it is coming into its own now and is 'starting' to be deserving of being put on the shelf 'near' sh3. When people make comments like "I haven't played, and I don't ever plan on playing sh5.." Its just getting old. Its completely asinine that we have this political divide between sh3, sh5. alot of the modders that made sh3 great, are working on sh5... We are the subsim community.. end of story.

Every Point you made was valid... and I agree with you, just not the way you said them to me. If that makes sense.

Thats what I am talking about .. well done to you both :yeah:

[Cpt. Grouch]

Come on guys. . .group hug.

There. . .see how much better that is?

Now lets get back to yelling about silent hunter 5.

[SeaWolf U-57]

Come on guys. . .group hug.

There. . .see how much better that is?

Now lets get back to yelling about silent hunter 5.

Cool ...err but the trouble is I like SH5 :O:

[Cpt. Grouch]

Cool ...err but the trouble is I like SH5 :O:


I do too!

I just thought the days of unhappy Silent Hunter 5 threads were over. The game's been out awhile, it shouldn't be a surprise to anyone anymore.

I'd like to see more thoughts on particular things in Silent Hunter 5, with their own thread dedicated to it. In fact, if I don't feel the compulsion to get back to my homework in the next few minutes I just might start one of those myself, first one being on merchants and destroyers strategies.

[brett25]

Cool ...err but the trouble is I like SH5Me too!:woot:

I just like SH3 better:D oops

but seriously, SH5 is developing a charm of its own thanks in large part to the mods

[Los]

I was bashing the crap out of SH5 upon it's release... allot has changed since those days. :rock:

At this rate SH5 is about 6-8 months from decimating SH3. Even with the GW3.0 mod.

One thing SH3 didn't have was the option to build your own mega mod... lets face it, we have a truckload of mods we can mix and match to build our own unique and personalized game. GW3 didn't offer that and the mods just keep on coming. If GR2 files are finally worked out, you are going to see some serious content coming.

[Webster]

At this rate SH5 is about 6-8 months from decimating SH3. Even with the GW3.0 mod.


oh no he didn't ...:o

:damn:

:timeout:

please remember guys, everyone is entitled to their opinion and i dont think we need to over react to comments like this you may disagree with

[Drewcifer]

haha.. Well if people are able to import additional 3d models.. and if they perhaps model an additional sub or two.. and some other refinements of the engine itself..

Graphically sh5 decimates everything. But its still really missing some key elements, and content to really be the 'ultimate' Subsim.

Some things I don't know if they will EVER be in the game.. which is a downer.. such as additional subs. But I do think it will become the ultimate immersive experience.. once the AI is tweaked abit more.. its come a long way already, and the mods introducing additional crew, and behavior, all the ui refinments and increased game elements.. and of course addition ships, etc.

Notice I didn't say ultimate subsim, but immersion wise yes I think it will be the greatest. Its on its way to being a very real, alive uboat. Despite it only being just one type.. :cry:

[THE_MASK]

You are only let down by SH5 if you dont have a good computer to show off the wonderful graphics :arrgh!: Its only getting better .

[Madox58]

Oh there will be additional Subs and such sooner or later.
Heck, none of the Major mods for SH4 have ALL SH4 perfect Ships in them.
(Quick converts from SH3, no AO mappings)
The dat file structure works as far as viewing goes (To a point)
And the 'no damages' problem is really not a big problem.
I have seen damages on a dat structured Unit. (Visual)
Even the 'Kiddy' little bar showing this on a Unit.
:nope:

But Goblin is crap for doing the needed damages work and I'm not into a whole
round of editing/moveing zones in S3D right now.

[Alky]

I just wish I could get far enough from port to find an enemy! I keep running into "must have" mods and have to start all over :haha::haha:
I bought SH5 because the DRM was relaxed and am enjoying the graphic aspect of it.
So far, functionally, I enjoy SH4 slightly more but that may be due to the fact that I'm accustomed to it.
I bought SH3 after having played SH4 and just didn't get a feel for it. :cry:

[Madox58]

Each version has it's 'thing'.
I started with SH1, skipped SH2 (But Tarjak hooked me up in Houston)
then came late to SH3.
SH4 I pretty much left alone after D-Day for GWX.
Till lately.
SH5 offers different challanges for Modders.
In SH4, it's the UPC stuff I'm a dummy at.
And the mostly unknown animations stuff.
(I'm hooked on animations DANG IT!)
SH3, animations are open if you know them.
SH5 animations are exportable/importable to some extent now.
But why waste time with them?
If I can import new animations to SH5?
I'll create new or use other sources to do them.

I want the answer to animations in SH4!
Someone coded that crap.
Why not be a little birdy and tell me what I need to know?
:haha:

[oscar19681]

Not to beat a dead horse, but anyway, here goes:

1) Shortened campaign (huge step back from SH3!)
2) Only one main sub type (again, a step back)
3) No fully functional AI subs
4) Too many scripted gameplay elements
5) Related to 4, an overly scripted campaign with unrealistic goals
6) Poor immersion factor (compare "Aces of the Deep" - newspapers, the bar, etc)
6) Poor AI out of the box
7) Very awkward interface out of the box
8) Cartoonish characters & gameplay elements
9) Not enough units, and serious difficulty adding new ones so far

dont forget 10) crew managent as good as gone in sh-5 . They had it right with sh-4 where it was automated and worked and then they took it away in sh-5 and gave us some point system to upgrade 1/5th of the crew. Total immersion breaker if you ask me. I loved to give medals and promotions to my crew when back at base in sh3/4 and absolutely hate the so called crew management in sh-5.

[Drewcifer]

dont forget 10) crew managent as good as gone in sh-5 . They had it right with sh-4 where it was automated and worked and then they took it away in sh-5 and gave us some point system to upgrade 1/5th of the crew. Total immersion breaker if you ask me. I loved to give medals and promotions to my crew when back at base in sh3/4 and absolutely hate the so called crew management in sh-5.

Completely agree with this. Losing the ability to select my crew, promote, recruit greenhorns, and award medals is a huge loss to me on the outside of actually being on patrol.

However immersion ON patrol... I think its not a breaker, and ontop of that SH5 is more immersive ON patrol... walking thru the boat.. with the right mods you throw on some gramaphone tracks, or listen to german radio.. some good lighting mods, and crew mods and your really there.

[thedaunt]

Completely agree with this. Losing the ability to select my crew, promote, recruit greenhorns, and award medals is a huge loss to me on the outside of actually being on patrol.

However immersion ON patrol... I think its not a breaker, and ontop of that SH5 is more immersive ON patrol... walking thru the boat.. with the right mods you throw on some gramaphone tracks, or listen to german radio.. some good lighting mods, and crew mods and your really there.
i agree with you crew and medals is a great loss and also the tonnage war of which i miss:cry: on saying that the modders are doing a fine job.

[Bilge_Rat]

dont forget 10) crew managent as good as gone in sh-5 . They had it right with sh-4 where it was automated and worked and then they took it away in sh-5 and gave us some point system to upgrade 1/5th of the crew. Total immersion breaker if you ask me. I loved to give medals and promotions to my crew when back at base in sh3/4 and absolutely hate the so called crew management in sh-5.

That would be 11 actually. :ping:

Agreed that the crew management system is a step back. It worked fine in sh4. But that is the only valid remaining criticism on that list, every other point is either a personal preference or has already been fixed or is being addressed by modders.