Conning tower windows ?

[FlankSpeed]

Not related to SH3 at all but I figured someone on here probably knows about this....

Russian submarines seem to typically have large forward facing windows on their conning towers. No other nation's subs seem to incorperate this design feature and I've always wondered why this is the case.

I've always assumed they are for looking out of an enclosed secondary bridge, for when the sub is on the surface and the weather is foul or it is too cold to go up top.

But I've always wondered if you can sit up there when the sub is underwater, and stare out into the murky depths....

[Gargamel]

What would be the point? At the depths and the conditions the subs normally operate under, you would see just as much if there wasn't any windows. They don't have external lighting.

And IIRC, those windows are for maneuvering the boat while it is in harbor, allowing the crew to remain indoors but still see whats going on outside. This I'm not totally sure of, people more familiar with that class of boat would know.

[krashkart]

I posed a question similar to this one in a different forum here. The answer I got was that the spaces in the tower are flooded while the boat is submerged, including the area enclosed behind the windows.

Gargamel brings up a good point about the murkiness of the water. There really wouldn't be a whole lot to see anyway. :lol:

[kroll688]

You are correct about this area being the bridge when on the surface, the Officer of the Deck transfers his watch from the control room to the bridge when surfaced. The sheltered areas are due to cold conditions. The Russians use this feature due to longer surface transits in cold/artic conditions. It is a free flood area when submarged, subjected to sea pressure on both sides of the clear plastic window to keep it from breaking. US submarines have a smaller area but only use a portable windscreen made of plastic that is installed when rigging the bridge for surface, when rigging for dive conditions the windscreen is taken below decks.

[Collin Dougherty]

My guess is They use it to view and it is most likely bullet proof.
But they would have to flood the area behind it otherwise the glass would crack underwater

[FlankSpeed]

Thanks for all the replies. While I neglected to mention in the first post, it did always seem strange to me that submarines could have windowed areas and still operate at great depths, it never occured to me that they could simple flood the bridge when diving. I suppose the Barents Sea is a hellish place for sub crews to operate in, so any shelter must be apreciated when on the surface.

[Sailor Steve]

Early US fleet boats also had windows, and yes, they were strictly to provide an enclosed space for the helmsman in bad weather. And as far as I know they weren't bulletproof.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/cap017.jpg?t=1298588740

[Kapt Z]

Early US fleet boats also had windows, and yes, they were strictly to provide an enclosed space for the helmsman in bad weather. And as far as I know they weren't bulletproof.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a325/SailorSteve/cap017.jpg?t=1298588740

Was always curious what the interior of that enclosed forward bridge space looked like on early US subs.

Has anyone every found pics of these spaces?

[Sailor Steve]

Try SH4. I'm pretty sure they did their research properly. What's in there is the steering wheel, compass and engine controls.

[razark]

Early US fleet boats also had windows, and yes, they were strictly to provide an enclosed space for the helmsman in bad weather. And as far as I know they weren't bulletproof.

I've also seen references to the windows having the glass removed or painted over to prevent reflections from giving away the boat's position.

[Schöneboom]

Some Italian subs had windows in the tower -- without glass in this case. Great for the hydrodynamics, as you can imagine!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_2PJhzuDAP9k/TO7R8fo79CI/AAAAAAAAB2w/AKMT3gBJlfM/s1600/smg+ita+bordeaux+43.jpg

[FlankSpeed]

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/2985/2820825625c36e8ddd3e.jpg (http://img835.imageshack.us/i/2820825625c36e8ddd3e.jpg/)

http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/4121/scot4.jpg (http://img571.imageshack.us/i/scot4.jpg/)

It seems this feature was much more common than I thought, especially in earlier subs. I was reading about WW2 British S-Class boats and found this pic from the 1950s of the heavily modified HMS/M Scotsman looking sleek with a new windowed tower.

[kibeldede]

The russian Kilo diesel-electric submarine has a bridge in the tower as does the Kursk's class (Oscar i think it was)

[MilitaryAttractions]

I know this is an old ass thread but heres a vid inside the conning tower of a Foxtrot that gives you a glimpse of the area with windows

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3YECHB_t_X0

[bstanko6]

foxtrots and kilos have these windows, they are just for when the sea state is rough and the spray is in the watch officers faces. Nothing more. Just a creature comfort.

[Gargamel]

9.5 points. (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=193765)

Very cool.

[bluehedgehog]

At the depths and the conditions the subs normally operate under, you would see just as much if there wasn't any windows. They don't have external lighting.

That isn't the case with SH3, you can take out periscope while submerged and see stuff quite well, afair from 100-150 meters depth with periscope you see water surface, and ships in such range (maybe up to like 200+ meter).

Is that realistic?
Perhaps there is a mod that makes the underwater more foggy?

[bstanko6]

No it's not. The obs scope was the best one to use at night. I am trying to darken the attack scope so it is near useless at night.

At one time the best way to attack a ship was at night on the surface only.

[bluehedgehog]

No it's not. The obs scope was the best one to use at night. I am trying to darken the attack scope so it is near useless at night.

At one time the best way to attack a ship was at night on the surface only.

Could someone make a mod for that? I guess just increasing a lot the fog in underwater view should do it.

[Gargamel]

Could someone make a mod for that? I guess just increasing a lot the fog in underwater view should do it.

I don't think it's worth it. The possible performance hits on some machines would far outweigh any immersion benefit you might encounter. The simple solution is to just not use your scope while submerged below scope depth.

And the view limit is small enough already that you can't see anything useful as it is. Maybe mines, but by the time you actually see one, it's probably too late anyways.

[phd45]

I think Victoria/Upholder class submarines have conning tower windows

http://image.prntscr.com/image/2bc76100d2d44d69bda15811bbac54cd.png

[Jeff-Groves]

They were 1970's era subs.
What do they have to do with SH3?

[Sniper297]

According to Edward L Beach (author of RUN SILENT RUN DEEP) the US S-class subs had a conning tower that was nothing more than an oversized escape trunk - there was a small desk for the navigator and two small viewports, 2 inch thick glass. They were eliminated in the fleet boats mainly because you couldn't see squat below 30 feet, not to mention having a weak point. In the S class it didn't matter much since they had riveted instead of welded hulls, with a test depth of 200 feet. The biggest problem deeper than 100 feet or so isn't the murk, it's the lack of light - pitch black even on sunny days. CDR Beach did mention he enjoyed staying in the conning tower during dives to watch the water coming up the viewports, but he would go down to the control room and shut the lower conning tower hatch when it was too dark to see outside. The conning tower wasn't flooded when the S-boat was submerged, but the lower hatch was generally shut anyway since there was nothing up there.

[UKönig]

According to Clay Blair's account, Hitler's U-boat war, he states..."early submarines had glass portholes in the conning tower, enabling the boat to be steered or conned, on the surface from this elevated space. However, glass portholes cannot withstand the shock of depth charge explosions and had been eliminated. While traveling on the surface, the boat was actually conned from the bridge above the conning tower."
Later on, the screens were provided so that the watch officers wouldn't have to deal repeatedly with getting salt water splashed in their faces.

[Kendras]

Later on, the screens were provided so that the watch officers wouldn't have to deal repeatedly with getting salt water splashed in their faces.

What screens ? Do you have any picture ?

On the pic below, are they windows ? If not, what is it ?

http://i.imgur.com/1PJTLMO.png

[UKönig]

When I said "later on, screens were provided", I meant by the time the nuclear submarine age had arrived. There were no 'windscreen upgrades' to any WWII submarine that I am aware of.