The history\Millitary channel getting good again.

[Freiwillige]

I gave up watching after all the stale repeats but tonight they had what could be the coolest show I have seen in years. Its called greatest tank battles. Not only that but they successfully crossed several shows with one theme.

The first show was called General's at war or something to that effect and had to do with General Model for Germany and Bradly for the U.S. and it explained their tactics for the battle of the bulge.

Then on greatest tank battles they had the bulge again but killer CGI tank battles and personal stories. I was hooked.

Also one odd thing is I kept seeing a commercial for the battle of Arrencourt (SP?) and they said it was the largest tank battle of the war.

First off I'm pretty well versed on the second world war and a commoner could tell you that no western front battle reached the proportions of the Kursk offensive in armor. So one would have to assume that they meant the largest tank battle of the war in the west. But even so I never heard of this Arreincourt battle that happened in France. I read books such as the 12th SS Panzer division in Normandy. Read up on the battle for hill 112 outside Caen, But never in all my years have I heard of Arrencourt and yet this was the largest tank battle? Is the history channel just blowing this battle out of scale? Have any of you heard of it?

[Castout]

My cable doesn't have this channel I have to be content with National Geographic instead.

[TorpX]

I never heard of it either. Which battle is "biggest" would depend largely on whatever criteria you set. No. of tanks involved in a day, in a month, no. of men, no. of divisions, etc. You can slice and dice the numbers in countless ways.


PS: don't have cable either, can't comment on details.

[Castout]

I never heard of it either. Which battle is "biggest" would depend largely on whatever criteria you set. No. of tanks involved in a day, in a month, no. of men, no. of divisions, etc. You can slice and dice the numbers in countless ways.


PS: don't have cable either, can't comment on details.


Biggest tank battle would be Kursk by far. It's not just one battle but a series of battles that decided the outcome of world war 2 in Europe.

For History channel I must go to youtube :DL. Come to think of it I'm rather convinced that the then Red Army was able to defeat the Nazis all by themselves. It's just personal opinion however. And D Day was more like a race to prevent the Soviet from taking over the whole Europe. I don't mean to demean the valiant allied efforts at all just my 2 cents about the whole war.

[Freiwillige]

Problem solved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrQfw9sA5Ys

Greatest tank battles battle of Allacourt:up:

[Raptor1]

You must be referring to the Battle of Arracourt. I've heard of it, and since it is one of the smallest and easiest to play scenarios in TOAW, I've also wargamed it extensively.

It was far from the biggest tank battle of the war, but I believe it was one of the larger ones on the Western Front. Probably smaller than the tank engagements during the Battle of the Bulge though.

[HunterICX]

Problem solved.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FrQfw9sA5Ys

Greatest tank battles battle of Allacourt:up:

Could just bare to watch it for 10 seconds before I had to turn it off...*facepalm*

Sorry, I can't take such documentaries serious as it isn't taking me serious with the horrible CGI reconstructions...the Epic Action Narrating with a innapropiate music theme in the background :nope:
feels like I'm watching a intro of a horrid game I'll probally avoid like the plague.

there's just a couple of things I cannot abide in a documentary... the Greatest Tank Battle, Dogfights and some more of the History channel/Millitary Channel's stuff are full of them.

HunterICX

[Dowly]

Indeed. I can barely watch any american documentaries anymore, it's gone
from bad to worse in just a few years. :hmmm:

The narrative is overly dramatic, "extreme" is probably the most used word
in these, there's stupid wordplay constantly and the list goes on.

And yeah, then there's the CGI which apparently has replaced the use of
real footage and photos. :doh:

What they should realise is that action doesn't mean quality. But guess
they have to appeal to the masses. :roll:

Could just bare to watch it for 10 seconds before I had to turn it off...*facepalm*

Sorry, I can't take such documentaries serious as it isn't taking me serious with the horrible CGI reconstructions...the Epic Action Narrating with a innapropiate music theme in the background :nope:
feels like I'm watching a intro of a horrid game I'll probally avoid like the plague.

there's just a couple of things I cannot abide in a documentary, and Greatest Tank Battle, Dogfights and some more of the History channel/Millitary Channel's stuff are full of them.

HunterICX

[antikristuseke]

That battle of Allacourt thing...wow, just wow. I can't watch this crap.

[Penguin]

I managed to watch one whole minute, checked out the rest in fast forward...
way to get informed, no maps, no tactical/strategic/historic background....:down:
If us gamers want to see cool cg tank battles, we play them by ourselves.



What they should realise is that action doesn't mean quality. But guess
they have to appeal to the masses. :roll:

The odd thing is that the trend in movies is just other way.
When we want to to watch a documentation we get meaningless action animations, when we want to see a war movie we get love stories - something's gone deeply wrong...:doh:

[frau kaleun]

None of the shows mentioned are all that new, either. They may be new episodes, altho the Bulge ep of Greatest Tank Battles has been on repeatedly for at least a couple weeks. Commanders At War or whatever it's called - that's been around for some time, most of the eps I see playing now are repeats of stuff that's already been on.

Granted some of the same shows play on several different channels, I see listings for the same things on Military, Military History, History International, etc. So a show may be "new" on one channel but something that's been shown ten times over on another.

I will usually leave them on in the absence of other interesting options, at least it's a subject I'm interested in, but yes the CGI is not that great and there's too much of it. A little bit just to give an overview of troop movements or something on a scale map, but you don't have to illustrate everything with bad CGI, get some stock footage of a WWII tank rolling along, good grief it's not like they're ever going to run out of footage of WWII action judging by the constant commercials for NEW NEVER SEEN BEFORE WWII FOOTAGE OMG IT'S IN COLOR!! AND HD!! :O:

[August]

For History channel I must go to youtube :DL. Come to think of it I'm rather convinced that the then Red Army was able to defeat the Nazis all by themselves. It's just personal opinion however. And D Day was more like a race to prevent the Soviet from taking over the whole Europe. I don't mean to demean the valiant allied efforts at all just my 2 cents about the whole war.

The problem with your theory is that the western Allies didn't start fighting on D-Day. Previous to that there were also these little tussles in North Africa, Sicily, Italy and Greece as well as a pretty wide ranging air and sea war that tied up a lot of German attention and resources that would have been otherwise used against the Russians.

Allied victory means just that, allied.

[mookiemookie]

The problem with your theory is that the western Allies didn't start fighting on D-Day. Previous to that there were also these little tussles in North Africa, Sicily, Italy and Greece as well as a pretty wide ranging air and sea war that tied up a lot of German attention and resources that would have been otherwise used against the Russians.

Allied victory means just that, allied.

Indeed. And had the Battle of Britain gone the other way and the Germans managed to occupy England, they would have had no western front to defend. They could have brought their entire war machine to bear on the Russians.

[August]

Indeed. And had the Battle of Britain gone the other way and the Germans managed to occupy England, they would have had no western front to defend. They could have brought their entire war machine to bear on the Russians.

Yep, there was no way the US could have invaded Europe without the unsinkable Aircraft and troop carrier called Great Britain to stage from.

[TLAM Strike]

Yep, there was no way the US could have invaded Europe without the unsinkable Aircraft and troop carrier called Great Britain to stage from. We could have built up troops in Iceland and retaken Britain. Would have added a year to the war I bet, but I'm not sure that losing Britain would be a war losing proposition for the Allies. More of another place to tie down German troops. Plus I assume all the factories in the UK would be sabotaged and Britain was depended on outside sources of food and raw material meaning that Germany would only gain a giant leach of resources assuming the UK government decided to fight on from Canada.

Biggest tank battle would be Kursk by far. Which is also in the running for the biggest battle period. Although I think Stalingrad beats it due to length.

[Raptor1]

Say what you will about the relative contributions of the Allied powers to Germany's defeat, but D-Day and the invasion of Normandy certainly contributed much more to keeping Western Europe out of Soviet control than it ever did to actually decide the war. The reason for this is quite simple, and that is the fact that the German lines in the East have been rapidly disintegrating since their defeat at Kursk, all the while suffering unsustainable casualties (Unlike their massive losses up to the Battle of Kursk, during which German manpower was still increasing), and were in fact completely shattered after the often forgotten Operation Bagration, which was started almost simultaneously with Operation Overlord. The invasion of Normandy surely speeded up the process, but Germany would almost certainly have still been defeated by the Soviets at this point.

EDIT: Actually, I should really read the whole thing more carefully before posting.

I won't get into whether the Soviets could have won without the Western Allies completely now, because although I believe they could have due to a number of reasons, this would inevitably get bogged down in argument about how lend-lease played a decisive role and how German troops from the Western Front could have beaten the surely-almost-breaking Russians and the strategic bombing campaign and all that.

[sharkbit]

I've watched a couple episodes....:down:

I pretty much agree with some of the other critisisms above-too much cgi, few maps, and little if any background.

Maybe the only redeeming quality are interviews with people who were there, in the tanks.

This series remains the all time greatest documentaries on WW II:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War

:)

[Gerald]

I've watched a couple episodes....:down:

I pretty much agree with some of the other critisisms above-too much cgi, few maps, and little if any background.

Maybe the only redeeming quality are interviews with people who were there, in the tanks.

This series remains the all time greatest documentaries on WW II:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_World_at_War

:) The link you refer to, and the series is good :yep:

[Platapus]

Amazing how they could produce such a good documentary without the use of fancy CGI....... oh, I guess they used research and good writing. :salute:

[August]

One of my favorites growing up was the Victory at Sea (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Victory_at_Sea) tv series.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/7c/VictoryAtSeaTitleCard.jpg

[the_tyrant]

:hmmm: lets see
Got my knowledge of submarines from Silent hunter
learned about aircraft from lock on(all i know is that they are too hard to fly)
learned about the course of world war too from hearts of iron
learned about espionage from James Bond
learned about computers from War Games
learned about politics from Tom Clancy and George Orwell

The closest thing i have watched to a documentary is Black Hawk Dawn

[August]

:hmmm: lets see
Got my knowledge of submarines from Silent hunter
learned about aircraft from lock on(all i know is that they are too hard to fly)
learned about the course of world war too from hearts of iron
learned about espionage from James Bond
learned about computers from War Games
learned about politics from Tom Clancy and George Orwell

The closest thing i have watched to a documentary is Black Hawk Dawn

It's Black Hawk Down and World War Two and that list is nothing to be proud of. You must have very different priorities to have such a weak history education.

[the_tyrant]

It's Black Hawk Down and World War Two and that list is nothing to be proud of. You must have very different priorities to have such a weak history education.

and yet I still ace the grade 10 history course that every student here has to take

Yesterday one of my friends insisted that "a destroyer is the biggest ship in the fleet, battleships are used to escort destroyers":nope:

ahh, well at least my history has been improving from hanging out with you guys:yeah:

[August]

and yet I still ace the grade 10 history course that every student here has to take

That's even more scary! :DL

Yesterday one of my friends insisted that "a destroyer is the biggest ship in the fleet, battleships are used to escort destroyers":nope:

ahh, well at least my history has been improving from hanging out with you guys:yeah:

We can provide a bibliography! :D Start here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ausVC2NhAo

[frau kaleun]

It's Black Hawk Down and World War Two and that list is nothing to be proud of. You must have very different priorities to have such a weak history education.

I was gonna say, no, he prolly just goes to public school...

and yet I still ace the grade 10 history course that every student here has to take


And you're in the Great White North? I knew our curriculum was lackluster, but geez. Canada, I am disappoint. :nope:

Sadly, most of what I knew about history at his age, I'd learned from sources outside school - either because I was interested in something that wasn't in the curriculum, or got interested in something that was but wasn't taught in any depth.

[TLAM Strike]

and yet I still ace the grade 10 history course that every student here has to take You should try my History 260 (WWII) course I'm taking at college. You would be in for a world of hurt... :03:


Yesterday one of my friends insisted that "a destroyer is the biggest ship in the fleet... Maybe that's true in the Canadian Navy... :O:

[frau kaleun]

Yesterday one of my friends insisted that "a destroyer is the biggest ship in the fleet



Maybe that's true in the Canadian Navy... :O:

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRbKD1XFQH5VpoJxFw3acvfjZhCdUxNX cfe3HDhp-5MU5ve9KONmA&t=1

[the_tyrant]

You should try my History 260 (WWII) course I'm taking at college. You would be in for a world of hurt... :03:

Maybe that's true in the Canadian Navy... :O:

from what they teach us, its amazing how we haven't taken Washington yet

some quotes from the textbook:
Canadian solders were feared throughout the German army
The Canadian navy played a vital role in defeating the German Navy
Canadian solders are commonly nicknamed "storm troopers"
umm, wikipedia says otherwise:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stormtrooper

[TLAM Strike]

The Canadian navy played a vital role in defeating the German Navy

The RCN escorted more ships across the Atlantic than any other navy. At least that is what I recall reading in "The Far Distant Ships:An Official Account of Canadian Naval Operations in the Second World War" by Joseph Schull

[frau kaleun]

The growth and service of the Canadian Navy during WWII was nothing short of extraordinary. Your textbooks and teachers (and countrymen) have every right to be proud. :up:

[the_tyrant]

The RCN escorted more ships across the Atlantic than any other navy. At least that is what I recall reading in "The Far Distant Ships:An Official Account of Canadian Naval Operations in the Second World War" by Joseph Schull

but it was WWI (forgot to mention the context)

anyways, how are your courses?

[August]

from what they teach us, its amazing how we haven't taken Washington yet

You guys have been there and done that already if I remember my history lessons...

[nikimcbee]

The RCN escorted more ships across the Atlantic than any other navy. At least that is what I recall reading in "The Far Distant Ships:An Official Account of Canadian Naval Operations in the Second World War" by Joseph Schull

It should read like this: We saved England's bacon.

[TLAM Strike]

but it was WWI (forgot to mention the context) Point/Counterpoint

anyways, how are your courses? Going ok. Mostly I'm trying not to be bored during class. Its sad that I know mostly all the stuff in my most advanced courses.

I just wrote 10 pages for my history paper mostly from memory. Now I just got to go back and drop in sources backing me up. I think I'm going to have the greatest work cited page(s) ever, as of now I got a citation for a book published in Rijeka Croatia and formally classified CIA copies of a secret Soviet military publication.

[TorpX]

I'll echo the criticisms of the TV show. Seemed like a televised lead in to a football game. Rah, Rah Rah.............

I view these programs as entertainment and nothing more. To really learn about these things, one needs to get hold of a good book.

[TorpX]

:hmmm: lets see
Got my knowledge of submarines from Silent hunter
learned about aircraft from lock on(all i know is that they are too hard to fly)
learned about the course of world war too from hearts of iron
learned about espionage from James Bond
learned about computers from War Games
learned about politics from Tom Clancy and George Orwell

The closest thing i have watched to a documentary is Black Hawk Dawn
Well, I'm depressed..........................

[nikimcbee]

I'll give the (military) history channel credit for trying to breath new life into the subject matter though.

But I agree with most of what Hunter wrote.

They rely too much on CGI.
It's too dramatic.
IMO, i'd say they simplify things too much.
Some of their modern military experts get on my nerves.
Call me a hater, but I think it's too US focused. I like to hear other perspectives.
But it's hard to beat real war footage and the classic war documentaries.

But it is something new though, I'll give them a go. It beats all the shows about Hitler.

[Dowly]

Call me a hater, but I think it's too US focused. I like to hear other perspectives.



This is true. Was about to mention this, but decided not to in fear of someone getting butthurt. :O:

[nikimcbee]

This is true. Was about to mention this, but decided not to in fear of someone getting butthurt. :O:

No worries.:salute:

[Freiwillige]

Well I watched the Arracourt battle episode yesterday and I ROFL'd, They constantly showed CGI footage of Panthers getting wiped out by Shermans in a head on engagement, Not firefly's, Not the 76mm Shermans, But the lowly average workhorse Sherman with the low velocity 75mm gun.

And to make matters worse they showed this after interviewing an American tanker who said that they couldn't go head on with a Panther cause they had better Armor, Guns, Optics.

Now a few scenes they talked about how they had flanked and used proper tactics but allot of the CGI was Sherman vs Panther and the Panther was getting spanked!

Now I know allot of the German tank crews were new but come on they made the Germans look like idiots in Armored warfare. German Tankers were highly trained if not highly experienced by wars end.

In the end I don't mind the CGI I just want it to represent some form of reality. I know the Germans lost and Panthers were knocked out but it wasn't by Shermans at 2,000 yards head on!

They fail to explain anti tank guns, Infantry, Artillery ETC as if the battle field was just German vs American Tanks.

Yea after further viewing I give this a Fail.

[nikimcbee]

Well I watched the Arracourt battle episode yesterday and I ROFL'd, They constantly showed CGI footage of Panthers getting wiped out by Shermans in a head on engagement, Not firefly's, Not the 76mm Shermans, But the lowly average workhorse Sherman with the low velocity 75mm gun.

And to make matters worse they showed this after interviewing an American tanker who said that they couldn't go head on with a Panther cause they had better Armor, Guns, Optics.

Now a few scenes they talked about how they had flanked and used proper tactics but allot of the CGI was Sherman vs Panther and the Panther was getting spanked!

Now I know allot of the German tank crews were new but come on they made the Germans look like idiots in Armored warfare. German Tankers were highly trained if not highly experienced by wars end.

In the end I don't mind the CGI I just want it to represent some form of reality. I know the Germans lost and Panthers were knocked out but it wasn't by Shermans at 2,000 yards head on!

They fail to explain anti tank guns, Infantry, Artillery ETC as if the battle field was just German vs American Tanks.

Yea after further viewing I give this a Fail.
:haha: I coulda had a v8 moment.:D

[MH]

Good Youtube channel on ww2:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HoustonGD#g/

[Dowly]

Good Youtube channel on ww2:
http://www.youtube.com/user/HoustonGD#g/

Indeed. :yep:

Another as great is:
http://www.youtube.com/user/UnknownWW2InColor

Tons of colored stuff I have never seen before. :up:

[Penguin]

thanks for the links guys, good stuff :salute:
edit:
check out the source of the second link: http://romanoarchives.altervista.org/index.html
tons of interesting stuff to find there, not only WWII related

[Dowly]

I'm sure this doc was posted somewhere, but couldn't find it soooo BUMP!

Modern Marvels: Tank Crews:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ETHhxwcphso

Modern Marvels Tank Crews is about what the Tank Crews of the (Then)
new M4 Sherman Tank had to go through to win the War. (Don't worry, the silly first narrator doesn't narrate the documentary itself :O:)

Also, the whole WWII in HD Colour series can be found here:
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL36BC15C52F12CAFC

:salute:

[STEED]

Could just bare to watch it for 10 seconds before I had to turn it off...*facepalm*

Sorry, I can't take such documentaries serious as it isn't taking me serious with the horrible CGI reconstructions...the Epic Action Narrating with a innapropiate music theme in the background :nope:
feels like I'm watching a intro of a horrid game I'll probally avoid like the plague.

there's just a couple of things I cannot abide in a documentary... the Greatest Tank Battle, Dogfights and some more of the History channel/Millitary Channel's stuff are full of them.

HunterICX


First up yes I noticed this thread was 2011.

Right moving on...Totally agree with HunterIXC comments.

Battlefield was not bad series apart from the damn music got on my wick..

Segment from Battlefield 2 The Battle of Kursk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5_IJACB4miw