The most fail Tunisia inspired protest yet

[the_tyrant]

OK, so in the past few days, there has been posts on the internet encouraging Chinese citizens to protest like the Tunisians, to "take down the government".

The result was pathetic.
According to estimates, there was around 100 people that showed up to protest in Beijing. Against 300 cops waiting for them. More than 2000 people showed up in total though, but they were people and journalists there "to watch".

Around half the protesters were arrested, they were arrested not for "disrupting transportation" like what happened last time in the Tian an men square protests. Since Tian an men square can accommodate around 3000 people easily. Instead, they were arrested for littering, and creating excessive noise.

There was even traffic cops directing onlookers and reporters to parking spots.

news link:http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/20/3143681.htm?section=justin
It is unclear if they were trying to protest.
:rotfl2:

as we can see from this picture:
http://img.fyjs.cn/Mon_1102/159_95178_3fa95cf396f1a00.jpg

1 guy was arrested, the rest of the crowd was just watching

also, nothing made the Chinese news, probably because there is usually 2000 people per morning in Tian an men square to watch them raise the flag. While there was only slightly more than 100 protesters.

[Platapus]

Suppose they gave a protest and no one came?

:D

[Takeda Shingen]

I suppose that the fear of disappearing forever kept a lot of people at home.

[Penguin]

The only failure seems to be a 15yr old child, mocking people who try to stage a protest in a dictatorship.
While he enjoys the freedom to utter troll commentaries and repeat chinese government propaganda, he also enjoys the freedom to visit any internet pages he wants to, even those which use the verb "fail" as a noun.

Making fun of people who demand the same liberty, among many other things, while sitting in the safeness of mamas home, enjoying said freedom and living in a country which grants the right to assemble and protest? :damn:

Those people there, who are protesting, have bigger balls than you will ever have.

[the_tyrant]

@penguin
how is this any different than this: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180491

Or the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church

oh, right. These guys were worse
there was like 3 guys, carrying picket signs and screaming slogans, in front of the cops and crowds of people there to watch the excitement

After a while, they got tired and left. The ones who threw their picket signes onto the ground were arrested for littering.

Thing is, rumor says that the whole event was orchestrated by people outside of China using blogs and twitter.
The organizers didn't even show up

[bookworm_020]

Can anyone see the irony in having "the_tyrant" create a thread about people failing to turnover the power of corrupt leaders?:hmmm:

[Gerald]

Tunisia has not judgment problems, as other countries are experiencing currently, as a likely power shift is not to wait .... at least not right now

[Takeda Shingen]

The trouble with Tunisia is that it's full of Tunises. Tunins. Tuns. Nah, doesn't work.

[krashkart]

The trouble with Tunisia is that it's full of Tunises. Tunins. Tuns. Nah, doesn't work.

Turnips? Turnipsia. Tunic. Triplicate... :o:nope:

I'll take "The Trouble with Tribblestan" for 500, Alex. :yeah:

[Penguin]

@penguin
how is this any different than this: http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=180491

Or the protests of the Westboro Baptist Church


If you cannot see the difference between people who protest in a dictatorship and your examples, then I am sorry for you.

Did you even read the link you posted?

As many as 15 high-profile Chinese activists and human rights lawyers have been rounded up by authorities, according to their supporters.

They are reportedly being held in custody without charges.

hint: custody without charges is the key word

When people mock that mexichick or the WBC they mock their cause, not that they use their right to voice their opinion in public. Even if it would be only one person standing on a place, numbers say **** about the legitimation of their cause.

[Oberon]

Turnips? Turnipsia. Tunic. Triplicate... :o:nope:

I'll take "The Trouble with Tribblestan" for 500, Alex. :yeah:

Triffids?

[Tribesman]

The trouble with Tunisia is that it's full of Tunises. Tunins. Tuns. Nah, doesn't work.

Tuna:salute:

[Castout]

One word CHINESEEEEEEEEEE elite.


There's a certain growing numbers of rich Chinese here who are so different from the previous or old generation rich Chinese. They are much more arrogant, selfish, violent and basically being obnoxious.........

I as a Chinese feel thoroughly DISGUSTED! And to come to think that these very idiots may ruin the Chinese minority image in the country is appalling.

I believe these people may enjoy good higher education but OBVIOUSLY they are not educated people in any standard :damn:. Skillful maybe but never educated. Rough people. Unpolished. Rich rough unpolished obnoxious Indonesian Chinese. Yuck.

They are growing in numbers too. And they will breed too and teach their children wrong. God help us all :dead:

[Tribesman]

One word CHINESEEEEEEEEEE elite.


Isn't that two words?
but for shelf life of this new regime it does raise the question. Are they better in oil or in brine?
I do find the canned tuna better in brine but i havn't tried the chinese elite, I did read an article this morning about chinese demand for farmed salmon but thats a differnt kettle of fish entirely

[Gerald]

Tuna:salute: Yes.this is a fish, thanks for the information, :yeah:

[Castout]

Isn't that two words?
but for shelf life of this new regime it does raise the question. Are they better in oil or in brine?
I do find the canned tuna better in brine but i havn't tried the chinese elite, I did read an article this morning about chinese demand for farmed salmon but thats a differnt kettle of fish entirely

Aaah I added the elite later :D

Most Chinese elite be it in economy or politics are best served cold and raw. Mabe with pepper.

http://www.bork-billedkunstner.dk/billeder/andre/musk_ox_meat.jpg

Some are worth keeping though. But growing numbers will do the world better by being served on the table at least here. Nom nom.

[Sailor Steve]

Yes.this is a fish, thanks for the information, :yeah:
As a stand-alone, Tribesman's comment may be dismissed. But as a reply to Krashkart it was quite funny.

[the_tyrant]

An opinion I saw on a Chinese forum(translated by me):

Why did the protests fail?

As we all know, the attempted protests today failed spectacularly. Support for the protesters was low. Protester numbers were way lower than expected. The crowed also failed to offer support to the protesters. Why is it like this?
What changed since the protests of 1989

The background (The current state of Chinese society)

1. is the everyman in China is satisfied with the current state of Chinese society?

Well, no. Chinese society has many unstable factors. High housing costs, unemployment, inflation, poor transportation and healthcare etc. These factors all contribute to instability within Chinese society.

2. The public's views on the government

The government and the communist party is held in a generally positive light in China. Within the last 5-10 years, the Chinese government has made large progress in many areas. Especially in rural areas where most of the efforts went.
In urban areas, public opinion towards the government is not as good as in the rural areas. Overpopulation, poor health care, unemployment, poor traffic conditions and many other problem plague Chinese cities.
Also, the urban population generally have higher levels of education, and more western influence. Therefore, government censorship and other limitations influence those who live in the city more than citizens in rural areas.

3. the internet and Chinese society.

Chinese society has been deeply influenced by the internet within the past few years. The Chinese government views the internet in a curious fashion, that could be described as "protectionism".
The government supports the domestic IT industry heavily. Software and hardware companies are being heavily supported by the government. However, many believe that the government is fearful of the content on the internet. Therefore, domestic companies whose products could be controlled are being heavily encouraged in China.

Within the last few years, many curious events happened on the internet in China. The most influential event is "My dad is Li Gang" (note: what happened was that the son of a government official hit someone with his car. When the police pulled him over, the first thing he said was "My dad is Li Gang!")

The event sparked controversy all over China. If the internet did not exist, Li Gang's son would have simply walked away after paying the victim a small amount of money. Because of the attention this event received on the internet, Li Gang was forced to resign. However, his son still walked away with a relatively light sentence.

The "My dad is Li Gang" event was the fist of its kind that was not censored or suppressed on the internet. However, as we can see from the outcome, the government does not know how to deal with internet controversy.
Censorship on the internet has loosened up a little within the last 2 years.

However, government sponsored commentator activity has increased exponentially. It is believed by many that government censorship doctrine has changed from purely blocking content undisireable to the government into manipulating the public's opinion.

4. China's views on the west

The average citizen is indifferent about the west. The media barely touches on the western world; both in works of fiction and in the news. It is mainly the younger generation and the students that cares of the west.

However, Japan is a completely different matter. Sino-Japanese relations were at its peak in the late 90s. However, currently the majority of the Chinese population do not view japan in a positive light. As witnessed in the Anti-Japan demonstrations within the past few years. This is mainly because of the historical conflicts and the negative portrayal of Japan in the media.

The students and the younger generation is divided on its views of the west. One group. known as the "patriotic youth"(note: my translation of 愤青), is generally against the west, and often supports the communist party.
On the other end of the spectrum, the "slaves of the west"(note: my translation of 洋奴) is often in support of the west, and is generally against the communist party. The opinions regarding the west is often a subject of discussion on the internet.


The events leading up to the protest

1. Events during the Chinese new year

During the Chinese new year transportation season (note: every year millions of guest workers working in the cities have to go back to the rural areas for the holidays) this year, many influential events occurred.

First of all, the riots in the middle east; the riots in the middle east had serious effects on the Chinese political environment. Opponents of the Communist party believe that it is the best opportunity for change in the Chinese political environment. Leading to the protests in China.

Secondly, the governments decision to not allow the guest workers to return.
Millions of guest workers shall leave Beijing and not return. Housing and transportation problems are too high in the major cities of China. Therefore, the government decided to not allow the guest workers to return to Beijing.

2. Prosecution of corruption
Corruption was rampant in the Chinese government. Because of the demonstrations in the middle east, the Chinese government was nervous of similar things happening in China. Therefore, the minister of transportation was "delt with" because of corruption. This has been proven to be an effective way to appease the general population.

3. high readiness
At the first sign of trouble, the government mobilized large amount of police and armed police (note: Chinese equivalent of SWAT)
any sign of trouble was suppressed quickly.

The protest
as we all know, the protest had little effect. Why? I believe it is because of the following reasons:

1.Low support from the population
The general public did not support the protests. The main site of the protests Beijing, now has little working class. Therefore, the group that was most likely to sympathize with the protesters was simply not there.
Also, government attempts to appease the population was extremely effective. Citizens were generally satisfied with the success of the government's anti corruption efforts.

2.The prosperity of the Chinese economy.
People tend to want change when they are not satisfied with their current environment.
However, the stock market did well lately, the economy is going stronger than most places around the world. And because of the lack of guest workers, the unemployment rate in Beijing is actually quite low.
therefore, the majority of the Beijing population simply does not want change

3. lack of organization
A large scale protest needs organization to be effective. However, this protest had little organization.
The protest originated from Chinese people overseas. The fact that they were overseas created some mistrust. Many netzens suspected them to be "CIA collaborators".
The biggest problem was that they cannot organize the protest, unlike the 1989 protests, creating confusion within the protesters.

my opinion
You see, I'm not a supporter of the communist party. I am especially against the fact that they are discouraging religion and their discrimination against homosexuals

But i believe (and I'm sure many other Chinese people believe too)
that although the current administration is not the best. However, they did bring prosperity, and progress. We support prosperity, and progress, therefore, change is undesirable at the moment.

[Castout]

That's avery good analysis Tyrant.

Manipulating public opinion I know that all too well.

For China to be thought as a viable alternative to United States it must prove that it respects universal human rights. Forget about the division between west and east. Human values are UNIVERSAL. China needs to find its own barometer but rule of law, accountability, freedom of speech and individual rights in my opinion are prerequisites before any one nation could claim to be a first world nation. Those values are universal and fundamental as not able to be bargained.

Like it or not US has been regressing in general in terms of being viewed as a champion of universal human values. It has politicized its handling of many human right abuse cases to profit from them as much as possible while ignoring those which it found to be able to damage its foreign relations.

Manipulating public opinion is a foolish almost idiotic effort that could backfire and provide ammunition to the contrary wish or objective imo. Leadership should be a tool to serve fellow men and the weak than an oppressive tool. The privilege is not about being able to do anything a man wishes but to shape the country and to develop his fellow man to see a stronger China. If Chinese leadership can't understand moral sentiment then they must have been lying to themselves. Conscience is an integral part of ANY MAN. A simple experiment will prove this. Spit to any man in any world without a provocation and he would likely be upset at the minimum and if you punch that person he will probably be very angry at the very least. If the elites view their people with little regard then they are viewing themselves with too much regard. As what they treat their citizens like it's how you must treat the leaders like since they are representative of such people. And if they are not the representative of the people then you're dealing with a firm, a corporation.

[Penguin]

thanks tyrant, for the translation.
The opinion piece gives some good insight and is written quite unbiased. On the other hand, I do not see this guy condemming the protests...


But i believe (and I'm sure many other Chinese people believe too)
that although the current administration is not the best. However, they did bring prosperity, and progress. We support prosperity, and progress, therefore, change is undesirable at the moment.

Not even regarding the human and environmental costs of the chinese economic growth, but this thinking is the mentality of a slave.
Who needs freedom when you can have some plastic toys? Sadly this thinking is global, I wonder how many people would give up their liberties for some glass pearls. These folks deserve neither.

Obey, never question authority, trust your government and drink the kool aid...




For China to be thought as a viable alternative to United States it must prove that it respects universal human rights. Forget about the division between west and east. Human values are UNIVERSAL. China needs to find its own barometer but rule of law, accountability, freedom of speech and individual rights in my opinion are prerequisites before any one nation could claim to be a first world nation. Those values are universal and fundamental as not able to be bargained.


I agree 100% and I value your opinion, especially as you are a Chinese (citizen ?). I am happy that not everyone thinks like a sheep! There are some people who say: "Oh, we can't use western criterias when we talk about human rights in China. Screw them! Like you said, human rights are neither an invention of the "West", nor limited to is's citizens, they are a basic right of every individual.

Regarding the US and human rights: I never understand how they can boycott Cuba and condemn its leadership when they bow to the chinese government and trade one or two goods with them...

The astroturfing aspect is quite interesting, hard to say if it was used first in state propaganda or in PR. I wish that it would backfire, but regarding from my experience here, it also works in Germany. It's interesting to see which lobby groups try to manipulate the public opinion and how often they are are successfull in doing so...:shifty:

I would say that the fight to have/keep your basic rights is an eternal one, we should not take them for granted. Also we should not think that any governmemnt has a vital interest to keep them and be alert when someone tries to abolish them.

[the_tyrant]

I usually attribute the lack of success of democracy in mainland China to a few reasons. Anyways, I will try to be unbiased and discribe my understanding of the current situation:

The barriers against democracy


1. The problems in Taiwan.

In 1989, Taiwanese economy was at its peak. The society in Taiwan was stable, unemployment and crime was low. So many pointed at Taiwan and said that if mainland China was capitalist and if the citizens had as much freedom as they did in Taiwan, the mainland would do as well as Taiwan. (Taiwan was not fully democratic yet)

However, the current situation in Taiwan is viewed by many as being worse than the situation on the mainland. Their previous president was thrown in Jail for corruption, and a recent high profile attempted assassination leads many to believe that the mainland is doing better than Taiwan. Especially after the large scale protests and unrest in Taiwan around 2008-2009.

talk show hosts on the mainland now point to Taiwan. Saying that is mainland China ended up capitalist and democratic there would be as much unrest as Taiwan.

2. Government appeasement

The government is actually making progress in many areas. This is the first time in Chinese history that something has been done about the corruption in China. Many high level government authorities have actually been prosecuted for corruption within the past few years.

Minimum wages and other policies that improve the state of the average citizen have been implemented. Healthcare is being improved, and there was education reforms being implemented recently.

Even in the area of human rights there has been progress. You are now guaranteed 1 chance to appeal in court, and charges must be presented within 24 hours of your arrest or else the cops must let you go.

Every time you turn on the TV, you can see some government official promising progress. And in reality, they have kept their promises, progress have been made.

3. Low education levels

China has made huge progress in its education system. And almost everyone has been through 9 years compulsory education.

However, the average education level for Chinese citizens are still quite low. The majority of the population is comprised of farmers and guest workers from the rural areas. Freedom of speech and democracy does not matter for them, they do not care.

4. People do not care about democracy.

My friends in China (I believe most young people too) have low expectations. One of my friends claim that his goal before he gets to 30 is "to be able to afford my own apartment, get married, and be able to afford a decent car.

The average Chinese citizen lives in awful conditions. It is difficult for the Chinese man to be able to purchase an apartment without support from his parents. Without an apartment, it is impossible for him to get a wife.

Chinese society is more materialistic than western society. On a first date, the couple will almost always talk about their wages, if they have an apartment or not, and if they have a car or not.

If you don't have a car and an apartment, you have no chance of even getting a second date. Especially with the current male and female ratio in China.

When will democracy come?
The current state of Chinese society and the Direction its going is unsustainable. When it collapses, I believe democracy will come.
The average university grad will be lucky to be able to make 2000rmb per month.
5 years ago, my dad bought an apartment at the price of 8000 rmb per square meter. 2 years ago, a similar apartment could have easily fetched 20000 rmb per square meter. Currently, the price is pushing 30000.

How is an average university student expected to be able to afford an apartment? Also, the going price is 30000 per square meter, but in reality sales are going at much higher prices.

Also, an university grad can only make 2000 per month if he is employed in what he is trained for. There is a huge amount that is underemployed. Go to any computer store in china, the sales man is probably a university grad.

Inflation is taking its toll, ill let BBC explain:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-12238997

The problems are huge, however, most of them comes from economic reasons

As long as the communist party keeps solving these economic problems, they would stay in power for the foreseeable future.

the main concern for the average Chinese citizen is not human rights or democracy, its defiantly economy.

I give the communists at least ten more years. Demonstrations within the next ten years would be foolish, with 0 chances of success.

but I genuinely believe that democracy and freedom will arrive in China in the future.

This capitalist-communist society cannot last for long