New budget proposal [Archive] - SUBSIM Radio Room Forums

gimpy117

02-12-11, 01:38 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIEh5m65J2c

discuss.

Platapus

02-12-11, 06:41 PM

Videos like this are only eye candy.

Show me the actual numbers of his proposed budget and then I can opine.

And, of course, what the President wants is seldom what the President gets. The President is the only politician in DC who has to consistently fight both political parties.

Currently, we probably have the best combination party wise (let's not talk about individuals). I like the GOP to be in charge of the House as most spending bills start there. I like having the Democrats in control of the Senate, primarily because I like different parties in charge of the different chambers. So if I like the GOP in the house, it does not leave much choice for the Senate. :D

I don't like having the same party in charge of both chambers, and I sure don't like having the same party in charge of both chambers and the Presidency. :nope:

But in any case, videos like this are eye candy for the masses.

I am from Missouri, show me the numbers. :yep:

CaptainHaplo

02-12-11, 07:34 PM

While I suspect Platapus and I will disagree on the appropriateness of the numbers when they come out (which is all good in a debate), I agree with him totally on this. Show us data and figures, not nebulous politi-speak.

Some goes for the "other side" too.....

tater

02-12-11, 08:41 PM

I didn't watch.

The analogy of the title of course would need to be a family that spends a huge chunk of it's annual income on a crazy credit card shopping spree (the so-called "stimulus"), THEN decides to try and live within a budget. (a family making 50k a year goes out and blows 20 grand on a fancy dinner in NYC, THEN lives within its means).

Lock spending at 2007 levels. Include "entitlements"—if that requires lowering rates of increase, or even cutting benefits to 2007 levels—tough. Debt service should literally come off the top of the entitlements, too. After maybe 10 years, allow the budget to increase at the most conservative inflation rate—and it should decrease if there is deflation to match.

CaptainHaplo

02-12-11, 08:48 PM

#1 Balanced budget ammendment (with the exception being a declared war by congress)

#2 Cut off all entitlement funding (welfare, education, housing assistance, etc) to any non-citizen or non-legal resident.

#3 Move to a consumption tax

#4 Get the federal government back to within its constitutionally defined role.

#5 Return to the gold standard

Do that, and we would have a surplus that would pay down our debt and have us on solid footing. It won't happen, too much special interest to ever let it be.

TorpX

02-12-11, 10:54 PM

I watched the speech.

I felt like it needed a laugh track.

redsocialist

02-13-11, 06:48 PM

Takeda Shingen

02-13-11, 07:31 PM

HAHAHA How hilarious. OHHHHHHH ohhhhh The Irony!

Here is a more logical effecient budget plan.

1. Cut the $2 Trillion/ a year "defense" spending for the US imperialist agenda and the Arms Industry that use murder for profit and call them "wars" which are Illeagle Occupations
2. Stop the 4 million dollars/ a day funding to Israel
3. Stop the funding to right-wing dictators around the world and giving them military asstince.
4. Stop the funding to US-state department backed "political parties" around the world such as National Endowment for "Democracy".
5. Get rid of the CIA (Central Imperialist Agency), and stiring up/ assassinating democratically elected leaders.
6. Stop making contracts with all the Multi National Corporations that rape the Earth's resources, by merging the state and corporations, eg. United Fruit Company, Goldmen Sachs.
7. Stop medeling in other's countries affairs or bring "democracy" which translates to imperialism and opression.
8. If USA hates Communists so much stop funding/supporting PKK (Kurdistan Workers Party), that it designates as a "terrorist organization", yet supports them to destablize Turkey.
9. Stop ALL THE CORPORATE WELFARE/"Bailouts" and Subsidies to MNCs! If USA really cared about the economy then invent in American jobs,
Stop using slave labor in 3rd world countries using 7 year old girls with 18 hour shifts making 2 cents an hour!!
10. MOST Important! End the 800 bases in 130 countries around the world! Stop USA Imperialism!!

-Feel free to add to this list! :)

Remember kids, the imperialist state of USA is very expensive, so Americans better get on the streets and stop all that spending from those pesky politicians and that evil commie muslim nazi Obama
:up:

1. The occupations are not illegal. Also, the United States of America is not, nor has ever been, an imperialist nation.
2. I'd like my nation to cut back on Israeli funding as well, but why all the Israel hate? You've done this in a few threads already.
3. But the dictators that oppose Israel are okay, right?
4. But I thought that we were supposed to counter the dictators.
5. Central Imperialist Agency. Did you think that up by yourself?
6. Why should only the US stop exploiting natural materials? That would be kind of pointless, no?
7. That is neither imperialism nor oppression.
8. There are no communists.
9. I'd like to stop all welfare. Period.
10. Again, that's not imperialism.

Obama is not a muslim, but did you really just call him a commie nazi?

http://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/commienazis.jpg (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheSimpsons)

redsocialist

02-13-11, 08:07 PM

1. The occupations are not illegal. Also, the United States of America is not, nor has ever been, an imperialist nation.
-------------------------------------------
Yes it has, since 1776. Ever heard of the genocide of 300 million native Americans? Those are the "real americans" not people who come from countries the US has destroyed oppressed/ then call them "illeagle" What about the "interventionism" during the Cold War, murdering democratically elected leaders, then install dictators that in turn slaughter they're own people MUCH more than any "evil communists" have. Augusto Pinochet ring a bell? oh How about funding Saddam Hussein, and selling chemical weapons.. to fight against Iran. The list would go on and on, but I don't have all the time in the world, so I'll let you find that upon yourself.
------------------------------------------
2. I'd like my nation to cut back on Israeli funding as well, but why all the Israel hate? You've done this in a few threads already.
-------------------------------------------------
I don't hate Israel, and what few thread, I just have one other post saying Israel and USA are the real terrorists, and by that I mean the governments. I have friends that are jewish, from Israel, and are against the illeagle occupations.
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3. But the dictators that oppose Israel are okay, right?
-------------------------------------
Doesn't matter US will support anyone infavor who supports Israel, the majority are right-wing dictators. Though as usual USA labels those against Israel as dictators like the "evil tyrant of doom" Hugo Chavez who was democratically elected and continues to be.
4. But I thought that we were supposed to counter the dictators.
----------------------------------------------------
Of course not. Don't you understand economics? Corporations like countries that are "stable" so they can obtain more profit and make deals with them
---------------------------------------------------
5. Central Imperialist Agency. Did you think that up by yourself?
----------------------------------------------------
Yes I did, also I have one for NATO (North Atlantic Terrorist Organization), though I didn't come up with it :up:
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6. Why should only the US stop exploiting natural materials? That would be kind of pointless, no?
-------------------------------------------
All of the first-world countries should stop oppressing the world not just the USA. However, USA comes #1 to imperialism.
---------------------------------------------------------
7. That is neither imperialism nor oppression.
--------------------------------------------------
To you and most Americans its "freedom and democracy", to the rest of the world its imperialism and opression.
--------------------------------------------------
8. There are no communists.
-------------------------------------
Really? Ha you sure are asleep then, WE're everywhere, though e don't all have the same idealogy. more in more around the world are becoming reds, anarchists, socialists, communists. We are building a United left front.
--------------------------------------------
9. I'd like to stop all welfare. Period.
-----------------------------------------
Then you should move to Somolia. That would be a great libertarian uptopia for ya ;)
---------------------------------
10. Again, that's not imperialism.
-----------------------------
Yes it is
---------------------------------------
Obama is not a muslim, but did you really just call him a commie nazi?
-----------------------------------------------------
Obama is a puppet for the Imperialist state of USA and its biggest salesmen to sell the agenda, IMO. I used commie muslim nazi to poke fun at the absurdity of the right-wing loonies who go around saying USA #1! etc..

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_sOGlHwhS7xQ/S82kfKquleI/AAAAAAAAAIM/cn-OhK5Q0oQ/s1600/democracy_will_come_to_you.jpg

Takeda Shingen

02-13-11, 08:15 PM

Redsocialist, I'll just leave it at this: You're using a lot of terms that you either have a very shallow understanding of, or fail to understand completely.

gimpy117

02-13-11, 08:17 PM

I find it ironic that the right says "control the spending" and when Obama suggests just that...everyone freaks and laughs

redsocialist

02-13-11, 08:40 PM

Yes, your right some of these concepts Ihave very little understanding of, I'm just giving my take on it, and I'm sorry if it came out a bit harsh, I just wanted to wake people up a little bit so they can see where the spending is really going. Thats all!
:rock::salute:

Rockstar

02-13-11, 08:53 PM

Oh yes, Israel again, the sole source of all the worlds woes. I don't get it, there are nearly 6 BILLION people on this planet, of which is less than 18 million Jews. That's less than one third of one percent of the world population! Statistically speaking they should hardly be heard of! Tucked away like the Ainu in a corner of Asia or Inuit in Alaska, bystanders of history. Yet they're in every headline? :doh: If they had a neighbor to trade with that didn't want to see them dead. We just might be able to stop aid and let them grow and prosper.

Sailor Steve

02-13-11, 10:28 PM

@ redsocialist: Please do not use the quote function and then add your responses inside the quote. It makes impossible to quote you without retyping everything you said.

Also your replies tend to meander from one subject to the next, sometimes in mid-sentence. This makes them difficult to respond to. But I'll try.

Yes it has, since 1776. Ever heard of the genocide of 300 million native Americans? Those are the "real americans" not people who come from countries the US has destroyed oppressed/ then call them "illeagle"
No, and neither have you. First, the vast majority of those were killed by disease, which is a tragedy but would have happened even if every European who came here had the best intentions. Yes, the Spanish colonists enslaved the native populations. For the most part the English and French left them alone. Are you aware that the first English colony was wiped out by the natives? No one is sure exactly why, but there isn't much evidence that the colonists did anything to warrant that attack.

In 1776 the largest nation on the North American continent was the Iroquis Federation, also known as the Five Civilized Tribes. Other tribes were considered "uncivilized" and at the worst enslaved and at the best treated as second-class citizens. The United States at that time tried to deal with the native population, not hurt them. Yes, we are guilty of lying, cheating and stealing, and of the occasional barbarism, and so were "they". I say "we" rather than the government, because most of it was done by people who wanted something, not an evil government. This was even true of the Spanish. Also, since we do believe in "Government of, by and for the People", anything the government does I consider my responsibility, even when I disagree; and I do disagree a lot.

I also say "we" and "they" in quotes, because I'm descended from English and Germans on my father's side, and some Native Americans on my mother's side, including Arapaho and Apache.

What about the "interventionism" during the Cold War, murdering democratically elected leaders, then install dictators that in turn slaughter they're own people MUCH more than any "evil communists" have. Augusto Pinochet ring a bell? oh How about funding Saddam Hussein, and selling chemical weapons.. to fight against Iran. The list would go on and on, but I don't have all the time in the world, so I'll let you find that upon yourself.
If you don't have the time to link references, then you shouldn't make accusations. As to this one, it's true. The US government has installed many people in power because someone thought it would be advantageous to fighting what was considered a greater enemy. I disagree - I don't believe we should do that sort of thing. That said, in America I'm free to say that. In Soviet Russia you couldn't disagree with the government without risking disappearing forever. How many of his own people did Stalin "purge"?

I don't hate Israel, and what few thread, I just have one other post saying Israel and USA are the real terrorists, and by that I mean the governments. I have friends that are jewish, from Israel, and are against the illeagle occupations.
But you sure sound like you do. You also sound like you're convinced you're right, and have no room for discussion. Let me ask you this: Have you ever said anything similar about the Arabic governments surrounding Israel?

Doesn't matter US will support anyone infavor who supports Israel, the majority are right-wing dictators. Though as usual USA labels those against Israel as dictators like the "evil tyrant of doom" Hugo Chavez who was democratically elected and continues to be.
That was not an answer to the question, but a diversion.

Of course not. Don't you understand economics? Corporations like countries that are "stable" so they can obtain more profit and make deals with them
Here you change the subject to seemingly further an agenda, without actually discussing anything. You keep throwing out claims, but not talking about them. You sound more like a propaganda broadcast than someone who really wants to discuss things.

All of the first-world countries should stop oppressing the world not just the USA. However, USA comes #1 to imperialism.
That's a fine accusation, but can you show that the US is more imperialistic than, say, China?

To you and most Americans its "freedom and democracy", to the rest of the world its imperialism and opression.

Really? Ha you sure are asleep then, WE're everywhere, though e don't all have the same idealogy. more in more around the world are becoming reds, anarchists, socialists, communists. We are building a United left front.

Then you should move to Somolia. That would be a great libertarian uptopia for ya ;)

Yes it is

Obama is a puppet for the Imperialist state of USA and its biggest salesmen to sell the agenda, IMO. I used commie muslim nazi to poke fun at the absurdity of the right-wing loonies who go around saying USA #1! etc..
You really do sound like a walking propoganda machine. Is there any actual discussion in your soul, or is it all automatic hate? I'd like to know what you think your beliefs can do to better the world, and not just how evil certain people are. All the things you've said about America and Israel can also be said about any Communist state and any Arab state.

I'd like to hear what you really think, rather than one-sided attacks.

Rockstar

02-14-11, 12:21 AM

Ah, 'red' who believes the United States of Americun's just appeared out from nowhere in North America made a flag and took the land away from the tribes. Here's a news flash, it was Europeans that came to this continent called North America and started taking lands. It was Europeans that moved west and it was Europeans who rebelled against other Europeans. Made their own flag and just continued the tradition of taking lands with their flag.

And to this day you still can find their descendants arguing back and forth over the internet. Accusingly pointing a finger at each other and complaining to each as to who committed the worst atrocities.

Native Americuns means you were born here, it doesn't mean the only ones are tribal because their ancestors arrived first. I'm native of North Americun too because I was born here. My father's side of the family came from Norway and Finnland (european) . My mom's side is for the most part Prussian and Metis (half breed).

redsocialist

02-14-11, 09:40 PM

I don't beleive "Americacuns" appeared out of no where. I know it was Europeans that came to this land, to take other lands with a different flag. That assumption makes quite a bit of since and you just proved my point thank you. As for spain, yes spain is another imperialist country with just as many deaths/crime as the American Empire. yes, spain probably was more brutal, however we supported the fascists in spain in 1937. Even though Americans volunteered to fight the fascists in the International brigades. I would of volunteered if I was around that time. I'm not trying to come across as hate or propaganda machine. I do not agree or applaud the actions of Jospeh Stalin and the purges, however I beleive that the numbers said against him is not accurate, and a bad excuse to use against communism or socialism. Not all socialist states had little freedom. Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia was just about as free as Americans have now inside they're country if not more. I know there are arabic governments against Israel that are dictatorships. So what? I hate the zionist Israeli government for the murder and genocide, as well as the illeagle occupation of Palestinians. They suffer far more than Israel does from Hamas which is a legit political party. China has its roots in Imperialism, however they were a victim of imperialism as well from Europe. Have you heard of the boxers rebellion?

Here are references for all the US backed dictators. Take it or leave it, if you doubt something further research it yourself.

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/US_ThirdWorld/dictators.html

Again I don't mean to sound like a propaganda machine, my point is all around the world we are organizing, weather it be socialist/communist/anarchists or other leftist factions to build a new united left front against the oppression of imperialism. Its growing every day. Thats all. We are witnessing the death of capitalism, and the imperialists are using corporate fascism to save it.

You asked me what I think... I'm sorry if I come across hateful but I really think the USA as a state is the world's biggest terrorist. My point being I do not see any difference in dropping a Mk84 bomb from 65,000 ft saying "Mark 2, drop", and a insurgent in the middle east running to a building, with an IED, saying Alluahakbar. In reality, the Mk84 bomb kills 10 times as many civilians. Thats worse than the so called "terrorist". Or the curfues set by the US military, the stomping in homes, and killing women, children, fathers because they are suspected "terrorist", is terrorism coming from the state of USA. The private contractors roaming around gunning down civilians, or the "bad apples" raping women then killing them, coming from the US military. That is wrong and thats how I feel. To change this? I think if enough people woke up and found out what they're government is really doing, and thought about changing the system, then we may have a good chance of stopping. However, many people are duped in American Idol, MTV, the corporate media etc and couldn't give a damn about the rest of the world. But I think its to late, so its interesting ho it will all play out. Most of the world knows what USA and the imperialists in they're countries are really doing, so not everyone's duped.

August

02-14-11, 09:50 PM

August

02-14-11, 10:04 PM

Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia was just about as free as Americans have now inside they're country if not more.

Ok now I know you're just trolling. :doh:

redsocialist

02-14-11, 10:07 PM

Ok now I know you're just trolling. :doh:

No, I'm not trolling its true. I don't care if you beleive it or not. My friend, was born and lived there it was a free country, you could do w/e you want, literally what ever you wanted. You could even own guns which I am a huge supporter of obviously.

redsocialist

02-14-11, 10:09 PM

What makes you think that you know where the spending is really going? What are your qualifications?

Lol, August... anyone can know where it is just look it up. You can see the federal budget plan "official document" of all the spending. Add all the sectors, defense, state department (which is the imperialist agenda) and you see how much spending there is. However, they do leave a lot out, like funding political parties, dictators military aid etc... Some of which is published in the press, like the 400 billion to Saudi Arabia for aircraft.

Hell don't take a anarcho-communist's word for it, take a highly respected libertarian politician's word for it, Ron Paul

August

02-14-11, 10:23 PM

No, I'm not trolling its true. I don't care if you beleive it or not. My friend, was born and lived there it was a free country, you could do w/e you want, literally what ever you wanted. You could even own guns which I am a huge supporter of obviously.

This is where the propaganda you've swallowed fails.

If your friend had bad mouthed Tito like you bad mouth your country he would have ended up in a jail cell or a shallow grave somewhere. Yugoslavia was certainly better than the USSR, but a dictatorship, no matter how benevolent, just can't be compared to our form of government.

Sailor Steve

02-14-11, 10:24 PM

I don't beleive "Americacuns" appeared out of no where. I know it was Europeans that came to this land, to take other lands with a different flag.
And yet you continue to blame 'America' of willfully exterminating three hundred million people, which has nothing whatsoever to do with the truth.

That assumption makes quite a bit of since and you just proved my point thank you. As for spain, yes spain is another imperialist country with just as many deaths/crime as the American Empire.
Which American Empire is that?

yes, spain probably was more brutal, however we supported the fascists in spain in 1937.
Which has what to do with either the original topic or your 'brutality' comparison?

Sidebar: would of volunteered if I was around that time.
It's "would have".

I'm not trying to come across as hate or propaganda machine.
And yet you do, and here's why:

I do not agree or applaud the actions of Jospeh Stalin and the purges, however I beleive that the numbers said against him is not accurate, and a bad excuse to use against communism or socialism. Not all socialist states had little freedom. Socialist Federated Republic of Yugoslavia was just about as free as Americans have now inside they're country if not more.
There is nothing wrong with making those arguments, but you don't try to make those arguments. The first thing you do is launch into an anti-American tirade, accusing the US of being far worse than any other country that has ever existed. That's not a defense, that's an attack, and gets treated as such.

I know there are arabic governments against Israel that are dictatorships. So what? I hate the zionist Israeli government for the murder and genocide, as well as the illeagle occupation of Palestinians.[quote]
There are Arabs in the Israeli government, and Arabs within the borders of Israel are treated the same as everyone else. In Arabic countries Jews are not tolerated at all.

As to the Palestinians, up until 1967 Jordan owned that land. The bordering Arab states attacked Israel, and Israel won. Part of that winning was to take the West Bank, which the Arabs had used to attack. No one ever complained about the plight of the Palestinians under Jordan - this only started when the Israelis were suddenly the "occupiers". The PLO under Yassir Arafat waged war against Israel, and when Israel retaliated they were labelled "agressors". Please show your claimed "genocide".

[quote]You asked me what I think... I'm sorry if I come across hateful but I really think the USA as a state is the world's biggest terrorist.
And you're certainly entitled to believe that, and even to argue it. What's wrong is the old saying "It's not what you say, it's how you say it."

My point being I do not see any difference in dropping a Mk84 bomb from 65,000 ft saying "Mark 2, drop", and a insurgent in the middle east running to a building, with an IED, saying Alluahakbar.
Nor do I. The difference I do see, however, is that we actually try to avoid that where we can. The problem is that their type of "fighting" involves hiding among civilians and using them as shields. This means that we try to target the military, and sometimes civilians get hurt. They intentionally target civilians on a regular basis, and sometimes actually get some military. They are also willing to blow up any of their own people who disagree with them.

In reality, the Mk84 bomb kills 10 times as many civilians. Thats worse than the so called "terrorist".
You'll have to show that that's true.

Or the curfues set by the US military, the stomping in homes, and killing women, children, fathers because they are suspected "terrorist", is terrorism coming from the state of USA.
When some of our own commit atrocities we bring them to trial, and when the military fails we have a free press which puts them on the spot. When they do the same they justify it by saying that anyone who doesn't believe as they do must die.

Again, Skybird and I recently had a huge argument over the Muslims being allowed to build a mosque near Ground Zero in New York City. The arguments aside, show me an Arabic country where a similar discussion would even be tolerated. If you or I wrote articles in any of them we would risk being arrested and possibly shot. Doesn't happen here, or in Germany. So in that respect we are indeed more free than any country you try to compare us to.

The rest of your argument, about us being "duped", obviously doesn't apply to many of us here. I could just as easily accuse you of being duped, or even brainwashed, based solely on your narrow viewpoint and faith-like conviction that you are absolutely right about everything you believe.

August

02-14-11, 10:29 PM

Hell don't take a anarcho-communist's word for it,

I wouldn't take an anarchists word for anything.

redsocialist

02-14-11, 10:31 PM

This is where the propaganda you've swallowed fails.

If your friend had bad mouthed Tito like you bad mouth your country he would have ended up in a jail cell or a shallow grave somewhere. Yugoslavia was certainly better than the USSR, but a dictatorship, no matter how benevolent, just can't be compared to our form of government.

This is where the propaganda machine you swallowed fails. You could bad mouth Tito there, or the government, many people did and they weren't put in jail or executed. Tito only jailed or executed, the butchers of Ustasha who were a nazi group that would go around butchering up civilians with knives. And yes you could have as much if not more freedom. All socialism means, is workers control over production. That was in there in SFRJ. Socialism is not this scary dark place of doom like you make it out to be lol.

Sailor Steve

02-14-11, 10:32 PM

This is where the propaganda machine you swallowed fails. You could bad mouth Tito there, or the government, many people did and they weren't put in jail or executed. Tito only jailed or executed, the butchers of Ustasha who were a nazi group that would go around butchering up civilians with knives. And yes you could have as much if not more freedom. All socialism means, is workers control over production. That was in there in SFRJ. Socialism is not this scary dark place of doom like you make it out to be lol.
Really? Can you show that to be true?

redsocialist

02-14-11, 10:38 PM

Really? Can you show that to be true?

Yea, I could have my friend on here and you could ask him all your wondering about SFRJ. Though obviously will say, its me pretending... What should I do? I beleive what he told me, I'v known him for years.

redsocialist

02-14-11, 10:49 PM

Rock Partyzani Band!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WQzqV-6-4do

tater

02-14-11, 10:51 PM

redsocialist

02-14-11, 10:58 PM

We also don't spend 2 trillion a year on defense. More like half a trillion. The bulk of the US budget is spent on socialist programs (medicaid, medicare, social security).

The Croatian allies of the National Socialists during WW2 have the distinction of killing the highest % of their people in history of governments killing their own citizens. Full stop. They bumped off 7-*% of their population per year during the Nazi period. Note that all the top-shelf murdering nations have had strong, central (socialist) control. All.

Socialism is not a sufficient condition for mass democide, but it's a necessary condition.
:haha::haha::haha::rotfl2::har::rotfl2::haha:

First of all, national socialism is not socialism LMAO. The first victims of "socialist" hitler were the working class organizers, the SPD, and the communist Party. Union organizers were jailed, and Hitler created a fascist state merging corporations and the government similar to what we have now in USA. Also, US corporations like IBM, and ITT had the luxuery of doing business with the nazis. Hilarous how you right wingers love to label nazis as socialists, then use nazism as an argument against socialism. Gotta love it. Sorry I don't mean to be insulting its just hilarious :up::yeah:

And no we spend at least 2 trillion, search again. Your only including defense, what you don't realize there' smore lables of spending going towards the imperialist agenda than "defense".

redsocialist

02-14-11, 11:02 PM

The Croatian allies of the National Socialists during WW2 have the distinction of killing the highest % of their people in history of governments killing their own citizens. Full stop. They bumped off 7-*% of their population per year during the Nazi period.

yes thank you for proving my point! The deserved to be jailed and executed, justice was served! Same apply to the war criminals in the US and around the world, should have the same fate. Unfortuently, the ustasha is still active :nope:

krashkart

02-15-11, 12:15 AM

My point being I do not see any difference in dropping a Mk84 bomb from 65,000 ft saying "Mark 2, drop", and a insurgent in the middle east running to a building, with an IED, saying Alluahakbar. In reality, the Mk84 bomb kills 10 times as many civilians. Thats worse than the so called "terrorist".

The idea behind a military air strike is to destroy a military target. Period. That being said, there are bombs in development now that pack a smaller warhead (and some without warheads) to cause localized damage to a military target, further reducing the chances of unnecessary civilian casualties.

The insurgent with the bomb strapped around his belly is trying to kill civilians. The point there is to kill civilians, with the hope that all the other civilians who hear of the event will not dare to oppose those who ordered the bombing.

Now let me ask you this:

If the US really wanted to kill civilians, then why is our military funding research into weapons that will hopefully reduce civilian deaths while still putting the hurt on the enemy?

Sailor Steve

02-15-11, 12:30 AM

:haha::haha::haha::rotfl2::har::rotfl2::haha:
While I agree with your summation of the Nazis, you're playing troll games again. You won't convince anyone by ridiculing them.

yes thank you for proving my point!
And again. This forum is not like others on the web, and you would do better to stop playing games.

Aramike

02-15-11, 02:38 AM

I find it ironic that the right says "control the spending" and when Obama suggests just that...everyone freaks and laughsWhen Obama says "control spending" and then offers up a budget which would double national debt by the end of his term, it's hard not to laugh - then freak.

August

02-15-11, 08:37 AM

Yea, I could have my friend on here and you could ask him all your wondering about SFRJ. Though obviously will say, its me pretending... What should I do? I beleive what he told me, I'v known him for years.

If you do that make sure your friend is prepared to defend a failed country that hardly lasted beyond the death of it's dictator.

tater

02-15-11, 09:28 AM

:haha::haha::haha::rotfl2::har::rotfl2::haha:

First of all, national socialism is not socialism LMAO. The first victims of "socialist" hitler were the working class organizers, the SPD, and the communist Party. Union organizers were jailed, and Hitler created a fascist state merging corporations and the government similar to what we have now in USA. Also, US corporations like IBM, and ITT had the luxuery of doing business with the nazis. Hilarous how you right wingers love to label nazis as socialists, then use nazism as an argument against socialism. Gotta love it. Sorry I don't mean to be insulting its just hilarious :up::yeah:

And no we spend at least 2 trillion, search again. Your only including defense, what you don't realize there' smore lables of spending going towards the imperialist agenda than "defense".

National socialism was certainly socialism. The communists always attack their own first. The CCCP murdered maybe 60 million "fellow travelers." The PRC, more. Murdering their own is what communists do best, it's their best industry.

The German state was a command economy, with highly central control over every aspect of people's lives, including their economic activity. That is socialism, period, and it is a necessary condition for mass murder (a weak central government cannot order millions killed, it doesn't work).

tater

02-15-11, 09:32 AM

There is a huge difference between a JDAM and an VBIED or other terrorist weapon. In many cases they are specifically aimed at civilians. The intent matters. There is less difference between some area bombing (from, say ww2) and terror bombing, but there is some. For the most part counter-value nuclear strategies are in fact terror as a deterrent.