A collection of embarrassments

[Nangleator]

New player, still getting used to the game, so cut me some slack!

I started four careers last night. First one was 1941, out of the Phillipines port. I had only traveled part way up the west coast when I detected what was certainly an invasion task force. Sneaking at them on the surface, I got detected and dove deep. I decided do go a little below test depth, just to see what was possible. I only went 30 or so feet deeper, with no immediate effects. The destroyers were just sniffing around, so I got bored and used TC. Well, something started hurting me, and I was gone before I could do anything about it. Not sure if it was cumulative time spent too deep, or if they were dropping cans on me. Career over in hours.

Next career, just a few miles later, a similar task force. I got under them, past the 8 destroyers and into the group of transports, and the military ships must have sniffed me, because they never got very far away from me. I fired off all six tubes and got down low without triggering aggressive behavior, and my fish hit nothing. I grew impatient with the career at that point, since I realized I hadn't tuned the realism settings to my liking before starting anyway... so I quit and started over.

Next patrol, in '42, out of Pearl, I decided to top off at Midway, and on the way out, I got bounced by a big pack of Bettys. June 19th? Bettys at Midway? I figured they were friendly until the attacks started. I had some damage but survived. Couldn't manage damage control. I guess I have to crack open the manual PDF, if there is one. I couldn't tell if repairs were being done at all. Not intuitive. Some of the crew I dragged into the damage party were sleeping.

I'm on my fourth patrol now, and I'll be serious about this one. No fiddling with airplanes. I'll stay away from 8-destroyer convoys. I'll go easy on TC when I'm in a dangerous situation. I don't do manual targeting yet. Not until I'm more familiar with this game.

[TorpX]

I feel your pain.

I've had careers end in a very unsatisfying manner as well. One, on my 4th patrol, after being at sea for 2 months and only finding one ship (but countless planes), decided to return to base. On the way back, I dived to PS depth to evade another aircraft. Kaboom! Career over. Should have gone deep. That really hurt; I had what I consider a pretty good tonnage (for a S-boat). Next career, I depart Manila before the Pearl Harbor attack. I am trying to master celestial navigation and dead reckoning as I cruise toward the Luzon Str. War breaks out and again a plane flys out of the clouds and blows me up while I'm at PS depth. I never even saw a Japanese ship. Honestly, I was so frustrated with the dead reckoning business, that I really didn't care that much about the career.

You can be sure, that I'm very careful about aircraft now.

BTW, are you playing vanilla? If so, you should consider using one of the supermods.

[Nangleator]

Still playing vanilla 1.5. I want to know what I'm improving when I improve it.

Also, I die after a 4-hour career and you want me to play against smarter destroyers?!

[magic452]

With TMO and a little luck I believe that we could get your career under TWO hours. :yeah: :haha:

Magic

[Mescator]

Still playing vanilla 1.5. I want to know what I'm improving when I improve it.

Also, I die after a 4-hour career and you want me to play against smarter destroyers?!

Haha, in all seriousness mate, your better off cutting your teeth and getting into good Habits. TMO Destroyers are hard, but evadable. You just need to learn the ins and outs, of which there's quite a few threads around here teaching that. Thats my opinion anyway.

TMO also adds a lot of cool stuff aside from difficulty and RSRD Will remove **** like bettys next to Midway. If your still not sold on TMO's difficulty, there's a version called TMO With training wheels, which cuts back the effectiveness of Destroyers. Regardless, dear god mod the game. It's a much better experience.

[Hylander_1314]

Haha, in all seriousness mate, your better off cutting your teeth and getting into good Habits. TMO Destroyers are hard, but evadable. You just need to learn the ins and outs, of which there's quite a few threads around here teaching that. Thats my opinion anyway.

TMO also adds a lot of cool stuff aside from difficulty and RSRD Will remove **** like bettys next to Midway. If your still not sold on TMO's difficulty, there's a version called TMO With training wheels, which cuts back the effectiveness of Destroyers. Regardless, dear god mod the game. It's a much better experience.

Absolutely! TMO is sooooooooooo much better than vanilla. But if you insist on playing vanilla, at least use the GFO Mod, (Game Fixes Only), as even that helps make the vanilla version a bit more bearable.

[tomoose]

Apart from the mods/fixes you need to exercise some patience. Use TC for crossing the wide expanse of the ocean primarily. Do NOT use TC when you are in harm's way (as you found out). TC compresses a lot more than just time if you use it carelessly.;)

Your sub operates best by stealth and surprise, lose that and you pay a price. There are many posts on tactics etc which will help you become a better skipper.

As mentioned, get away fm the vanilla game as soon as you can and get one of the superb mods (TMO or RFB) combined with RSRD. You'll appreciate the difference.

[Hylander_1314]

Yep, absolutely toomoose.

TC can be used with enemy vessels around, but I never go higher than I think 16 or 32 at most while submerged, and that's after having this game for 5 years now.

While shadowing a Convoy, or a Task Force, I never go over 8 on the TC, but that is only after I have tracked the ship movements, and destroyer escort patterns, and stay almost out of visual range of the targets. I stay right on the edge of losing them in either an extended scope on the surface or the TBT from the bridge.

When under DC attack, I never use TC, unless I have made a decent escape, and just want to quickly put some distance between me and the DDs / DEs. But even that is very very low on the TC scale.

Again though, I've had SH4 for a long time, and after getting used to what to expect, you can, with relative caution, push things a little. But also be ready to react to the unexpected. It happens.

[Dogfish40]

Absolutely! TMO is sooooooooooo much better than vanilla. But if you insist on playing vanilla, at least use the GFO Mod, (Game Fixes Only), as even that helps make the vanilla version a bit more bearable.

Can you give me a idea what GFO does exactly and where I can get the mod? I haven't run across it yet but I'd like to see what that one does.
Thanks in advance
D40:salute:

[Dogfish40]

New player, still getting used to the game, so cut me some slack!


I'm on my fourth patrol now, and I'll be serious about this one. No fiddling with airplanes. I'll stay away from 8-destroyer convoys. I'll go easy on TC when I'm in a dangerous situation. I don't do manual targeting yet. Not until I'm more familiar with this game.


Welcome aboard
I'm still playing a bit of vanilla and I'm still learning everything I can about tracking with Hydrophones, I really like the Hydrophones. I had a DD kill my last boat by using a touch of TC (on the way to Honshu) and the DD must have heard me somehow (I was submerged/daylight) and snuck up behind me at 180' where my SO missed him, or didn't report him anyway. It was a good carrier up in smoke, (3 patrols and a Gato upgrade). Thats what makes the game fun! ...I think...
Good Hunting:salute:
D40

[Hylander_1314]

Can you give me a idea what GFO does exactly and where I can get the mod? I haven't run across it yet but I'd like to see what that one does.
Thanks in advance
D40:salute:


GFO, Game Fixes Only Mega Mod by Webster.

Here's a link to the download section so you can see what it's about, and download if you wish.

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=151796

Hope this helps!

[TorpX]

Still playing vanilla 1.5. I want to know what I'm improving when I improve it.

Also, I die after a 4-hour career and you want me to play against smarter destroyers?!


There are too many improvements to list. I can't tell you all the differences, since I bailed out on the stock game quickly. Most don't use stock for very long. When you decide to install some mods, use the JSGME installer, it will make the task much easier, and allow you to reverse any changes later. IMO, the game would be nearly unplayable, were it not for all the work the modders have done.

If you are worried about smarter DD's, consider using RFB. It doesn't have the reputation for tough escorts. I'm playing with RFB-RSRDC in Dec. '41 and the escorts are very green (as they should be). Naturally, they will improve over time.

[Nangleator]

Okay, thanks for the tips! I'll try that. I've already downloaded the mod-loader.

[Nangleator]

Downloaded and installed.

Hey! The water's blue!

Hey! Enemy aircraft make sense now!

Hey... I don't have air search radar. That's downright dangerous.

Hey, those flying boats are dangerous.

Hey! The radio isn't going off constantly about movements eight thousand miles away!

Hey! My deck gun is awesome!

Hey... where are all the ships?

Hey, don't try to oppose the landing at the Northwest corner of Java. Not enough ocean there to cover the boat.

[TorpX]

Hey... I don't have air search radar. That's downright dangerous.

Hey, those flying boats are dangerous.


Yup. :yep:

[Nangleator]

The Betty's are acting odd.

They spot me on the surface, because my lookouts are useless, and I've got no radar. And they keep going. I have more than enough time to dive. Some time later... minutes? They somehow land bombs all around my sub, at 120ft, then finish the attack by diving the airplane down into the water at my sub.

It's disconcerting.

Also, if I happen to survive the incident, I've got damage that never seems to get addressed, and my first officer screams everything he says for the rest of the patrol. "HOW ABOUT THIS WEATHER, SIR?!" and "I'M GOING TO THE HEAD NOW, SIR!! MUST HAVE BEEN THOSE BURRITOS!!"

The last attack was so devastating, it corrupted my only save file for that career, which had been saved hours before, game time. Multiple months invested in that career. 22k tons sunk, which isn't much, but it was hard-earned.

Lots and lots of empty ocean. One patch with over fifty ships, but not enough water to hide in.

From now on, I save careers in at least two alternate files. When I detect an airplane, I go to crush depth and change course by 90°, and stay at flank until I'm down there.

[TorpX]

The airplanes are a major concern of mine too.

If they fly by and ignore you, it is probably because they have no ordnance to drop. As far as, blowing themselves up, someone else reported that. Pilot inexperience, I guess.

I have the same issue with my lookouts. Sometimes I must crash dive, and it's a very close call. I prefer to go to PS depth (if I'm not already there), and watch and see if they are coming close or not. If in doubt, I go deep. I hate to crash dive all the time, because it uses so much juice. Battery capacity is a major preoccupation of a S-boat commander. I'm not sure there is a fool-proof way to deal with the AC.


I save games fairly often, especially before/after attacks. I've had CTD's before, where I had to redo attacks, in order to keep tonnage I sank. In particular, I had crashes when listening to sinking ships on the hydrophones.

[Hylander_1314]

Downloaded and installed.

Hey! The water's blue!

Hey! Enemy aircraft make sense now!

Hey... I don't have air search radar. That's downright dangerous.

Hey, those flying boats are dangerous.

Hey! The radio isn't going off constantly about movements eight thousand miles away!

Hey! My deck gun is awesome!

Hey... where are all the ships?

Hey, don't try to oppose the landing at the Northwest corner of Java. Not enough ocean there to cover the boat. :|\\

Yepper! All of the above! And then some! Watch yourself in those shallow seas. Exercise caution when you have misions in those areas! They are downright hazzardous to your boat, and your crew's health!

Have fun! :up:

[Hylander_1314]

The Betty's are acting odd.

They spot me on the surface, because my lookouts are useless, and I've got no radar. And they keep going. I have more than enough time to dive. Some time later... minutes? They somehow land bombs all around my sub, at 120ft, then finish the attack by diving the airplane down into the water at my sub.

It's disconcerting.

Also, if I happen to survive the incident, I've got damage that never seems to get addressed, and my first officer screams everything he says for the rest of the patrol. "HOW ABOUT THIS WEATHER, SIR?!" and "I'M GOING TO THE HEAD NOW, SIR!! MUST HAVE BEEN THOSE BURRITOS!!"

The last attack was so devastating, it corrupted my only save file for that career, which had been saved hours before, game time. Multiple months invested in that career. 22k tons sunk, which isn't much, but it was hard-earned.

Lots and lots of empty ocean. One patch with over fifty ships, but not enough water to hide in.

From now on, I save careers in at least two alternate files. When I detect an airplane, I go to crush depth and change course by 90°, and stay at flank until I'm down there.


Which mod are you using?

If you have TMO, that redline on the depth guage isn't crush depth. It is test depth. What the builder's yard says is a safe depth to dive to if you have had no damage. In TMO, if you find your subs crush depth, you won't be writing home to tell about it, as Ducimus has said in the past. Oh, and Ducimus refuses to tell how deep he set the crush depth for the different classes of boats, and I think, if memory serves, he added some some variation to the actual crush depths, so that eve though, you may have taken a Gato down to 650 feet in one career, the next career, she may crush at that depth. So, just keep that in mind.

Just remember, when you start going down to the 600ft depth mark, you will need to increase speed to maintain depth control of the boat. I have had a Balao as far down as 750 feet, during a rather nasty depth charging round. The sounded like it was going to come apart at the seams, but she held up fine!

As for the planes bombing you, remember, when you are in enemy waters, dive the boat at sunrise, or before that, and don't surface until after sunset, and it's dark out. Set your speed to 1/3 or manually set it 1 Knot. I usually dive the boat to 300 ft, on the early Sargo, Tambor, and Gar boats. Once I get a Gato, I take her down to 350ft, and the Balao to 450ft.

That won't guarantee they won't find you 100% of the time, but it does cut the chances way, way down. Also, the calmer the sea state, the easier it is for them to locate you.

Later in the war when you get the improved SJ Radar, you can usually crashdive before they get close enough, but remember, once the gets under the surface, set your depth 350ft or more if you can, and don't reduce your speed until you well under 300ft. It will help you live longer.

[Nangleator]

Seriously? Planes can find and attack you at 300 ft?

I'm using RFB and RSRD.

I miss the live, updated vector and range displays on the map. I don't know what I'll do about a convoy attack. Just tracking a couple ships is challenging.

Right now, I'm hanging around off Wake Island waiting for the 24th and Enterprise's attack. Don't know if there will be any use for me there, but I'll enjoy watching it.

[TorpX]

I'm not sure what Hylander meant by his comment. Based on what I've read, aircraft shouldn't be able to see you past 90' or so. As to the game, I guess only the modders know for sure. As far as surface bombs go, I think 200' is reasonably safe. Depth charges are another matter. My S-boat can't go much past 200', so it's academic for me.

At periscope depth, they can obviously see you sometimes, but I don't know how it works. In RL, I think they had to be pretty close and have good light to spot a sub at PS depth. People have said different things about this. To me, it seems a little to easy for them to spot you. Right now, I'm being very careful. If I see them heading straight for me, I assume I've been spotted. I'm sure will get more info from others here.

[Hylander_1314]

It's in the readme for TMO, and has to do with planes being able to spot subs being porked in the original files. And it's a hardcoded thing I think, so the only thing the modders have been able to do, is work around it.

[TorpX]

Well that figures. Yet another thing to thank Ubiscam for.
As far as I could tell, SHCE handled planes pretty well. On the surface, you were vulnerable, at PS depth, you were safe unless they were close, at depth you were completely safe. It shouldn't be that complicated.

[Hylander_1314]

Yeah, it really shouldn't have been, but that's what the devs gave the modders to work with. If you can keep good frame rates, with volumetric fog ticked in the graphics options, it really helps with cutting down how often you get spotted while submerged. And the one thing I like about using TMO, is that I can run the boat deper than the rated test depth. I mainly use boats from the Sargo Class and newer, so I can take them down 300ft, and like the crews did while in Empire waters, I dive at dawn, and run submerged at 1 to 2 knots during daylight hours, checking the hydrophones every 1 to 2 hours, and after sunset, I surface, and run either at 2/3rds, or ahead standard and recharge the batteries.

[Nangleator]

That raises a question I've had since I modded. I'm using RFB*.

Is my sonar operator the same as in stock? Or is he letting ships get by him? Or are contacts just not dropping me out of TC? Do I have to put on the phones and listen to find contacts?


* And thinking about trying TMO instead (if I can ever find the file to download.)

[Sailor Steve]

Two of the three links in Ducimus' TMO 2.0 thread work just fine.

[Nangleator]

Got TMO 2.0 and 2.0 to 2.1 upgrade, took out the other mods and loaded these up and borked my game. Uninstalled TMO and I'm still borked. Deleted all local content and trying a reload. Don't know what mod I'll try next, but for now, I'm unimpressed with TMO.

Edit: I've sorted my problems. It was a Win7 issue. It just cropped up as a result of the TMO install.

[TorpX]

Yeah, it really shouldn't have been, but that's what the devs gave the modders to work with. If you can keep good frame rates, with volumetric fog ticked in the graphics options, it really helps with cutting down how often you get spotted while submerged.


You kiddin'?
How does graphics options affect the aircraft sensors?


And the one thing I like about using TMO, is that I can run the boat deper than the rated test depth. I mainly use boats from the Sargo Class and newer, so I can take them down 300ft, and like the crews did while in Empire waters, I dive at dawn, and run submerged at 1 to 2 knots during daylight hours, checking the hydrophones every 1 to 2 hours, and after sunset, I surface, and run either at 2/3rds, or ahead standard and recharge the batteries.


I can go deeper in RFB too, but I'm reluctant to push it.
At the start of one patrol, I made a test dive to 240 ft. or so, in a S-18 class. Everything seemed ok. Later when I was making an attack approach on a frieghter, I discovered I could not open my outer TT doors. This after sailing many miles. Needless to say, it was a disappointing patrol.

[TorpX]

That raises a question I've had since I modded. I'm using RFB*.

Is my sonar operator the same as in stock? Or is he letting ships get by him? Or are contacts just not dropping me out of TC? Do I have to put on the phones and listen to find contacts?


* And thinking about trying TMO instead (if I can ever find the file to download.)
Many have complained about the sonar issue.
This is my understanding:


Your soundman will hear contacts according to his equiptment and his experience/ability. This means at war's start, he will suck big time.
You will be able to hear contacts as if you had the best equiptment and ability, at start.
Obviously, this makes no sense, but thats how the game was coded.
I think my sound operator should can hear ships at about 7,000yd or so, at start. I can hear ships at more than 20,000yd. I'm not sure just how far. Hope this helps.