Where's my SJ radar?

[WH4K]

Two patrols ago, I had the option to get SJ surface-search radar, so I did.

Thing is, it's not working. The displays in my sub don't work, even though the equipment screen shows that I do in fact have SJ radar.

What gives?

Is SJ unavailable in a Salmon-class boat for some reason?

[Ducimus]

Did you just get refitted from the early war conning tower to a cut down version?

[CapnScurvy]

What is the date of your last mission?

The Salmon class boat does not get SJ Surface Radar until July 1, 1942.

[tomoose]

I'm currently dealing with this now. Got a new boat, plenty of renknown. "Bought" the SJ radar and installed it but it doesn't work. I've finished a couple of patrols and tried to install SJ at dock (again, plenty of renknown) but no joy.

I posted this before and IIRC you can "install" via one of the text files I think. I haven't tested that out.

[WH4K]

My last patrol ended in early January 1943. On my current patrol it's January 23. I should have the radar, shouldn't I?

[WH4K]

Bah, I guess it's a moot point for now.

I got my boat so badly damaged in my recent patrol that when I returned, I was offered "retire or take a new boat."

I took the new boat, only I didn't get a new boat. They gave me a Porpoise-class, which has 2 fewer stern tubes than a Salmon, among other things.

Also no SJ radar offered.

Perhaps it was COMSUBPAC's idea of an object lesson, as in, "This is why we can't have nice things!"

[CapnScurvy]

WH4K, you should have radar if you bought it with enough renown. The Porpoise class sub gets the early SJ radar offered on July 5, 1942 in the stock game.



=========================



EDIT:
I removed the remainder of this post since it was incorrect in it's assertions. Sorry, I have no intention to steer someone wrong.

[WH4K]

Cap'n, only mod I'm using is TMO 2.0, and my paths aren't exactly as you specify. Here's what I do have:

\silent hunters wolves of the pacific\Data\UPCData
\silent hunters wolves of the pacific\Data\UPCDataGE

Each of those contains a \UPCUnitsData subdirectory.

Which one should I "fix?"

FWIW, I now have a Porpoise-class boat. I got my Salmon-class so banged up that it probably had to go back to the States for repair, presumably why I was offered an "upgrade" to a Porpoise.

I have tons of renown points, but wasn't even offered the choice to get SJ radar before I left Midway in my Porpoise-class.

[CapnScurvy]

WH4K, a Porpoise class boat isn't really an upgrade over the Salmon. Actually the game lists it older by a couple of years (that's why you lost a couple of stern tubes).

Anyway, from what you tell us your last patrol was sometime at the end of January, 1943, so it's probably February '43 now. The game is suppose to offer it's first upgrade of SJ radar for a Porpoise class after July 5,1942. The next upgrade (to the SJ-1) is suppose to come June 30, 1943. I've heard the game has a problem in keeping up with this schedule, especially after a refit or boat swap, so I'm not at all sure what to make of that problem. How this "refit" problem may effect the issue I pointed out is not known. So the fix I thought you could try is just a guess.

The fact that you are using TMO 2.0 may throw a monkey wrench into what I said you could try. Ducimus changes a lot of things with his mod. For all I know the stock game dates (that I gave) of upgrades may be different than what's in TMO 2.0. What I do know is the entries found in the "UPCData" folder that I pointed out, are entries that I don't believe exist in the game. I've not seen any reference to them in the files that count. So again, its just a stab in the dark when I say try this.

You found the correct folders:
\silent hunters wolves of the pacific\Data\UPCData
\silent hunters wolves of the pacific\Data\UPCDataGE


Open the "UPCData" folder.

The "UPCDataGE" folder is the German counterpart (thus the addition of the GE tacked onto the name?) of the American side of things. If you opened the German "UPCDataGE/UPCDataUnits/UpgradePacks.upc" you would see quite a difference in file entries.

As I pointed out, delete the entries for both the Salmon and Porpoise class boats (since you've had to make a trade in boats) and see what you get. Again, how does TMO 2.0 affect this change, or how does this other issue of not getting upgrades when a transfer or refit takes place? I don't know. It really gets complicated now.

[WH4K]

Did the edit. Loaded one of my earlier saves with the Salmon-class boat. Still no SJ radar, but at least nothing broke.

I did so well with my Porpoise-class that they gave me a Gato next time I docked at Midway. However, I didn't even get the choice to install SJ radar before leaving. Patrol started 24 July 1943. I thought SJ was available by then?

I started a new campaign with a Gato to check. Yep, it has SJ radar by default. What's the deal?

Update:
I gave it another try, re-loading from the "office" part just before leaving Midway in my new Gato. This time I had the option, so I grabbed the SJ-1 radar. I guess the missing SJ earlier was just a temporary bug.

There seem to be several of those in SH4. Like all the needles pointing straight up for the rest of my patrol, after something I haven't been able to determine "breaks" all the 3D gages.

[CapnScurvy]

I tried the "fix" with a brand new campaign, Pearl, start of the war, I got 'nothin! So much for my first advice :woot:

I know when choosing the Balao class sub the radar comes standard equipped. Of course the Baleo isn't offered until after Feb 4 1943, and not at all sub bases. But, this class of boat doesn't seem to have the troubles the other classes have. The Gato is similar to the Balao but, like all the other boats (except the Balao) the Gato doesn't come equipped with radar if you're starting out on a new career before July, 1942.

I did some more tinkering and I do have the subs starting the game with the option of having the radar (both SD air search, and SJ, surface search) available to you before leaving port. This of course isn't authentic, but at least you have the option to have them put "on board" if you want. This is for all subs, all ports.

Whether the changes I made to the game allows you to transfer or refit your sub at a later date without losing the radar you already earned? I don't know. I'm going to do some more testing with the campaign layers. It seems to me if the stock game is such a pain in the backside with the use and upgrade of the radar, I would think losing a bit of authenticity during the first few months of the war would be a fair trade off for having the radar available as expected. After all the game has the SD radar set to come on board at the end of Dec. 1941. The SJ was to be available early July, 1942 for all boats but the Baleo (which isn't set to appear in the game until that Feb, 1943 date). So, we are only moving up the clock a few months anyway. If it's considered an "option" just don't add the unit to the boat until you feel the magic date of July 1942 has been reached.

Anyway, I'm going to do a bit more testing. I'll let you know what I changed or just make a JSGME mod to have the game enable the radar units use from the outset of a career. I think doing this will prevent the problems that come along later when the time of an upgrade is correct, but you don't have access to the upgrade due to some problem the game has in keeping track of the time.

[CapnScurvy]

I thought I'd post what I've found with the stock game. I have found several errors with the sensors files that may contribute to the issue of not getting an SJ (surface search radar) upgrade when you should have it offered.

Specific to the Salmon class sub, a player should have it made available through a renown purchase by July 1, 1942. All subs have it available about this same time, give or take a few days (except for the Balao which has it equipped from its appearance date in the game). What I have found is several specific dates are wrong or are out of sequence with other dates that depend on them being in a correct order. Below is the Data/Submarine/NSS_Salmon.sns file opened with a wrong date underlined. The "NodeName=R01" is the SJ radar (R02 stands for the SD radar). No such date as June 31,1942, the month of June only has 30 days in it!!

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/Radarerror.jpg

The "Sensor 8" parameter defines the SJ radar having "null" no radar, from the date Jan 1, 1938 to June 31, 1942. The first date its offered is found in the following "Sensor 9" section with the start date of July 1, 1942. Notice the break in "sequence" when you throw in a bogus date. It's important to have them follow each other as in the difference between the "Sensor 9" EndDate of May 15, 1943 to the "Sensor 10" StartDate of May 16, 1943. No breaks in time, no bogus date added.

I know enough about game modding that tells me having this date wrong throws a huge curve ball to the games internal clock that defines what day is it. This particular same error is found in the Sargo class sub as well.

Other errors include the Porpoise class sub with the same end and start dates (June 30 1943) for the transition between the SJ radar and the SJ-1 radar upgrade. The S class boats both having the SJ radar "null" parameter end on July 5, 1942 but the upgrade isn't made available until Sept 5, 1942. The Balao seems ok with its SJ radar dates but, the SD (air search radar) makes an error with the "EndDate" of the standard SD radar of June 1, 1943, by having the "StartDate" of the "Improved SD" radar going back to May 31, 1943, again not being in proper sequence.

I also have been wondering about the "offer" to upgrade to a particular item when your in-port, paying for it with renown, moving the item over to the "On Boat" column yet still having it appear in the "update" item column ready to be purchased again. I've noticed as long as you have the renown you can keep right on purchasing the item until you run out of renown! The SJ radar upgrades seem to do this, the SD improvements don't. I'm finding the UPCData/UPCUnitsData/"UpgradePacks.upc" file has a lot to do with this behavior. The entries in this file need to be changed and made into the correct "order" as well, to have the in-port upgrade menu work as it should.

I have made a workaround but I'd rather not offer it. I have made all this above moot by simply having radar equipped for all sub classes at the start of the game but that just isn't realistic. I would rather try to fix the issue of specific dates than give you a whitewash of having radar for all subs at all dates.

[Moonlight]

Are you going to fix the files and release it as a downloadable mod CapnScurvy?.

[Hylander_1314]

CapnScurvy, I can confirm that with TMO. I am going to alter the dates to 06-30 in the upc, and sns files to see if that makes any difference. I had seen the error before when Ducimus initially worked out why the conning tower upgrades weren't happenning at all, or very rarely. But I didn't think anything about it. :hmmm:

As long as guys save their original files before modifying anything, a little instruction to correct the dates won't hurt. And as long as they make and save copies of the originals before changing anything, they should be fine. That way if the date change breaks anything, it is an easy fix of copy / paste, delete the new and replace it with the original.

Just checked the UpgradesPack.upc file and this is the dates listed for SJ Radar:

UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptionCurrent= NULL, NULL, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions1=1942-06-01, 1942-10-01,
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions2=1942-10-02, 1943-04-01,
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions3=1943-04-02, 1944-05-01

Now, should the sns file reflect the 1942-06-01? Or would there be a possible issue having 06-01 for one, and 06-30 for the other? As it would give an overlap that doesn't seem to be needed, so should all dates referring to SJ Rada reflect the same date?

Just checked the sns files in TMO 2.0 / 2.1, and all the SJ Radar dates are 1942 07 01 or later than that. I think all the way into early Sept for the S Class boats.

[CapnScurvy]

Just checked the UpgradesPack.upc file and this is the dates listed for SJ Radar:

UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptionCurrent= NULL, NULL, 0
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions1=1942-06-01, 1942-10-01,
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions2=1942-10-02, 1943-04-01,
UnitUpgradePackIntervalOptions3=1943-04-02, 1944-05-01

Now, should the sns file reflect the 1942-06-01? Or would there be a possible issue having 06-01 for one, and 06-30 for the other? As it would give an overlap that doesn't seem to be needed, so should all dates referring to SJ Rada reflect the same date?

Just checked the sns files in TMO 2.0 / 2.1, and all the SJ Radar dates are 1942 07 01 or later than that. I think all the way into early Sept for the S Class boats.

You have a good question, so I'm going to give you what I know about these files and try to answer the best I can.

What I'm referring to is the "stock" game files.

To start, there are three files that need to be looked at in order to check and/or correct this date issue.

1st. Submarine/NSS_SubName/NSS_Subname.sns file lists the equipment and their dates the specific subs have their equipment brought into service (if at all). This file is the key file that spells out what gets loaded onto the sub, and when. The "null" parameter means it is not available. A "LinkName=NULL" that lists the "StartDate as 19380101" and an "EndDate of 19451231" says you don't have this particular piece of equipment for the entire duration of the game.

2nd. Submarine/NSS_SubName/NSS_Subname.upc file lists the various parts (including the crew) that make up the entire sub. What's important in this file is found way down towards the bottom in the "UpgradePackSlot" section. This section lists the various upgrades the sub has available and what is "linked" to that upgrade. It's my opinion the dates found here should be exact to the .sns file above.

3rd. UPCData/UPCUnitsData/UpgradePacks.upc file lists the specific upgrades, what their "elements" are that make up the upgrade, and again their dates that make them available for your choosing, and at what cost of renown for the upgrade. This file I believe, shows along the left hand side of the upgrade menu screen at the dates listed to "offer" them to you (with the specific renown listed price). The different dates listed are mainly for the purpose of lowering the price of the upgrade the longer you don't select it.

Below, I have the three stock files opened for a Gato sub and marked are the sections that refer to the SJ radar and its upgrades.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/StockGato.jpg


The Gato gets three different types of SJ radar offered (SJ, SJ-1, and ST). I've colored each dated entry for the three specific types of radar for the three specific files. The Purple highlights are the problem dates for the Gato sub. Notice the same date of Dec. 24, 1943 for the lower renown purchase price (from 500 renown to 100 renown) as the end date of the 500 renown price. When you look at any other entries in this file, the end date for one price does not carry over to become the start date of another. Also, the Blue highlighted date for the ST radar is not correct (although this may be a moot point for the Gato class, I'm not entirely sure the Gato gets offered the ST radar in the later part of the war. That could explain why the small Orange highlighted "comment out" simi-colon is in the NSS_Gato.upc file). Need it or not, the image below shows the corrected dates for the Gato.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/MyGato.jpg


This image shows how I have the Gato changed from the stock files. In my opinion, the first two files should be exact in the dates listed (whatever you may choose). The 3rd file, since it has the main task of offering the upgrade on the games "Equipment Upgrade" screen, doesn't have to be exact but should have its date just prior to when the other files list the upgrade. This way the Upgrade is made available just prior to when it actually is ready for purchase. As I stated in an earlier post, I believe one of the faults in the game is offering an upgrade long before it actually comes available for use. As you can see by what I've changed, the dates of the "offer" are just one day ahead of its availability.

As you can guess, this three file relationship should be checked and confirmed for all subs. At least the American subs. I'm guessing the German subs follow the SHIII file order that have been around now for quite some time so, I've not confirmed or checked how well they do. I'm guessing they are ok.

What I found is the .sns file for the Balao, Porpoise, S18, S42, Salmon, Sargo need to be corrected in the dates listed. Either the dates are not in sequence or are off some other way (like listing the 31st of June?!). The Balao issue is specific to the SD (R02) radar section only, the Sclass boats have problems in both SD and SJ sections, the others with just the SJ (R01)radar. Then you make the exact dates in the NSS_Subname.upc files, and then move back one day in the UpgradePacks.upc file.



Are you going to fix the files and release it as a downloadable mod CapnScurvy?.


I have what I've talked about already added to a mod I'm getting ready to release. I'm testing the parts now and have found improvement in what needs to be done. The mod is called "Optical Targeting Correction" found HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=175729). I must point out though, just having the radar upgrades work when and as they should isn't going to make the radar work any better than it does. To be honest, the stock radar is terrible in finding targets that's in viewing sight of the sub!! I've done quite a bit of work in getting the radar to work as it should. The fact that the dates are screwed isn't surprising considering how awful the American stock surface radar works. Anyway, to make a complete package the dates need to corrected and the radar reworked to a level that makes it usable. This is what "Optical Targeting Correction" will do.

[Hylander_1314]

Okay CapnScurvy. I think I get what you're pointing out. Just trying to catch the structure here between the 3 files, and I can see the date issue you're speaking of.

So, ummmmmmmm, if I'm understanding this, the earlier boats and later boats should reflect the dates as you have them in your corrected Gato files. (?) As this is then tied in to the main UpgradePacks.upc file. And since the main upgradepacks.upc file is generic between the different classes of boats, they all need to reflect this in their individual NSS files i.e. Gato.sns, and NSS_Gato.upc files.

If I missed anything, please bear with me, as I'm grasping how this 3 way structure interacts. Thanks! :up:

[Moonlight]

That's excellent news about the "Optical Targeting Correction" mod CapnScurvy :salute:

[CapnScurvy]

Hylander_1314, I edited the previous post to show both stock and a "correct" version of the three files for the Gato class sub. I should have done that yesterday so one can see more easily what needs to be changed. Really, the Gato may have been a bad example since the changes are minor and the specific dates for the ST radar (although wrong) may have no effect if the Gato doesn't get the ST upgrade anyway.

You mentioned the S class subs. Here are the three files for the stock S18.

http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/StockSclass.jpg

Notice the Purple highlighted date, the .sns file says the SJ radar (R01) "null" (unavailable) ends on July 5, 1942 but the StartDate for the SJ radar isn't until Sept. 5, 1942. In my opinion this throws the game date structure into a tail spin with the dates being out of sequence. To follow over to the next file, the NSS_S18.upc start date (in yellow) is July 6,1942. This follows in sequence the .sns file EndDate of July 5,1942. So, in the image below (these are my correct files) you will see my correction for this was to make the .sns file read the SJ radar StartDate as July 6,1942 not Sept 5,1942.


http://i175.photobucket.com/albums/w132/crawlee/MySclass.jpg

You may also notice the Purple [Sensor 9] entry is completely new for the NSS_S18.sns file. This is an SD (R02) entry for the use of air search radar. I don't know why it was neglected for both S18 and the S42 boats but I felt it should have it in there. It has to do will the "null" parameter but as I look at other boats or specific equipment entries I don't understand why it isn't there. Although, (I'm thinking out loud now) this may explain why there isn't an UpGradePacks.upc entry for the SD radar for the S class. The other two files put the SD onto the S class boats automatically on April 1, 1942 and there was no need to have an "offer" of an upgrade to it. I don't know if this entry will hurt anything or not, just have to run the game using the S class changes up the to April date to see.

The point is there are problems with the dates, just how far do we have to go to have them work as expected isn't known yet for all boats.

[CapnScurvy]

As a follow up on the question: Does the S class get its SD radar on or after April 1, 1942? I started a new career from Manila, Dec. 1941. No SD or SJ radar offered (as expected). With several completed assignments and enemy ship sinkings, I finished the patrol just after April 1942. Upon starting my next mission SD was offered as an upgrade, zero renown as the cost. I moved it over to the "On Boat" menu and I have SD as expected when I left Brisbane.

So the answer is yes, SD radar after April 1 1942. It wasn't automatic, I had to put it onto the boat while in port using the upgrade menu screen. I'll plug on and see if I'm offered SJ radar after the July 6,1942 date.

[Hylander_1314]

Okay! Cool! I think I'm actually getting it!

I'm going to try to tweak the other boats that have SJ Radar to reflect the proper dates, and see if that corrects anything or not. It will take a bit of time to test it, as I now have it on my Sargo boat, and it was offerred at the beginning of July, and I had no issues with it showing up on the boat after adding it to the "on boat" slot.

So, from what I can gather, if the other boats reflect the same date structure, then there should be no issues with SJ Radar being offerred, even after and upgrade to a newer boat, as long as you have the renown to purchase it, you should be able then, to add it to your boat.

But as you said, we will have to see how far we have to go to get it to work as expected, or as it should.

I'll keep you posted as to how it goes.

Thanks for your efforts! :rock:

[Bilge_Rat]

I play a RFB/RSRDC combo. At PH, the "Gato" class is offered the SJ radar as an upgrade starting Aug. 4, 42 and as standard equipment starting on Dec. 1, 42.

In RL, the first boat to carry a SJ radar was the USS Haddock, a "Gato" class that sailed from PH on july 28, 42. It carried the radar to test it out and it was first used in combat on the night of aug. 13-14. The set itself was out of commission or calibration during most of the patrol.

so in RFB/RSRDC, the availibility appears to match up with the historical record.

[DennyC]

Hope I'm not confusing things by jumping in the middle, but I'm having the same problem in my Porpoise boat with TMO 1.9 and RSRDC, March 1943. I had the SJ and SD on my last two patrols, and they worked well, picking up surface targets around 10 miles and air targets at about 15. The radars disappeared when they refit my boat in Midway, Feb. 1943. However, they seemed to reinstall OK, and didn't cost me anything. I also reinstalled the SD (improved). They also did some kind of superstructure mod that I had not asked for. Renown is about 9000. I have been running TMO and RSRDC for about the last two patrols

However, neither radar now seems to function after I launched on next patrol. The radar controls and buttons remain dark --- switches, PPI and A-scope also. The sets do show up in the Sensors window, but the vacuum tubes don't light up...

[magic452]

Losing your radar when you get a refit upgrade to a new tower is a bug in the game and there is no real good fix for it as far as I know.
This is the very thing Ducimus is talking about in his "One ship done well" thread.

You might try a very short patrol and than return to base and see if on your next patrol things are working. Make some saves just in case they don't, you can go back to where you are now.
This worked once for me.

Magic

[CapnScurvy]

Losing your radar when you get a refit upgrade to a new tower is a bug in the game and there is no real good fix for it as far as I know.
This is the very thing Ducimus is talking about in his "One ship done well" thread.

You might try a very short patrol and than return to base and see if on your next patrol things are working. Make some saves just in case they don't, you can go back to where you are now.
This worked once for me.

Magic


Your advice regarding using up a few days, then returning to base to see if you can attain the upgrade sounds just like the kind of fix that would work when the problem is with the dates not being in the proper sequence. In other words, the "offer" to purchase an upgrade was days away from the date the equipment really gets put into the game. You buy the upgrade to find out later on patrol the equipment is not available. When you return to base and you select the upgrade again, you have it on the boat now. That's why I've stated the "offer" dates need to be the same as the upgrade "available" date.

====================

dennyc, you're using a Porpoise boat with the problem of losing equipment (you once had) when a refit comes along. I have found something regarding a conning tower refit that seems important, however I don't see a connection yet to a Porpoise class boat. More digging is in order.

The files below both come from their respective sub class boats found in the Submarine/NNS_Gato, and NSS_Gar.upc files. This is the "stock" game files, with simular errors used with the TMO 2.0 mod.


;************************************************* ***********
;
; SUBMARINE TYPE DEFINITION
;
;************************************************* ***********
;------------------------------------------------------------
; Crew Evolutions
;------------------------------------------------------------
;Evolution= Normal
;Evolution= Battle_Stations
[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Gato
NameDisplayable=Gato
UnitName= USS Gato
Type=Gato
UpgradeClass=2
UnitInterval= 1941-12-31, 1967-06-01
ExternalClassName=SSGato
Nationality=American
CrewRanks=12
Evolution= Normal
Damage= 0
TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName= NULL
MenuSilhouetteTextureName= Gato_Class_01.tga
[UserPlayerUnit 1.UnitPartSlot 1]
ID=GatoConningSlot
NameDisplayable=Conning Tower Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=GatoConningTower
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1942-09-31, GatoConningEarlyWar ;Only UnitParts of this type could be placed here
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault2= 1942-10-01, 1943-03-31, GatoConningMedWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault3= 1943-04-01, 1944-10-31, GatoConningLateWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault4= 1944-11-01, NULL, GatoConningElite
ExternalNodeName3D= Z01


====================
====================


;************************************************* ***********
;
; SUBMARINE TYPE DEFINITION
;
;************************************************* ***********
;------------------------------------------------------------
; Crew Evolutions
;------------------------------------------------------------
;Evolution= Normal
;Evolution= Battle_Stations
[UserPlayerUnit 1]
ID=Gar
NameDisplayable=Gar
UnitName= USS Gar
Type=Gar
UpgradeClass=1
UnitInterval= 1941-03-01, 1945-12-11
ExternalClassName=SSGar
Nationality=American
CrewRanks=12
Evolution= Normal
Damage= 0
TextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Tambor/NSS_Tambor_T01.tga
LightmapTextureName=data/Submarine/NSS_Tambor/NSS_Tambor_O01.tga
NormalmapTextureName= NULL
MenuSilhouetteTextureName= Tambor_Class_01.tga
[UserPlayerUnit 1.UnitPartSlot 1]
ID=GarConningSlot
NameDisplayable=Conning Tower Mount
Type=NULL
AcceptedTypes=TamborConningTower
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1941-12-31, TamborConningEarlyWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault2= 1941-12-31, 1942-12-31, TamborConningMedWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault3= 1943-01-01, NULL, TamborConningLateWar
ExternalNodeName3D= Z01

Notice anything wrong with the dates?

Here's the Gato file:

AcceptedTypes=GatoConningTower
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1942-09-31, GatoConningEarlyWar


Here's the Gar file:

AcceptedTypes=TamborConningTower
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault1= NULL, 1941-12-31 TamborConningEarlyWar
IDLinkUnitPartIntervalDefault2= 1941-12-31, 1942-12-31, TamborConningMedWar


These dates should not be like this. First off in the Gato file, those Romanians are trying to give us an extra day in the month of September, AGAIN! There's only 30 days in Sept. !!

The Gar file has the end date for one conning tower upgrade the same as the beginning date of the following conning tower upgrade. This is going to cause trouble having the same date for two events.

Just off the top of my head, the SJ radar for the Porpoise class boat has three different "mounts" for the antenna used (the three mounts go along with the three SJ upgrades offered; SJ, SJ-1, ST). I'm suspecting not all "mounts" will fit the conning tower upgrades offered. So what may be important is to have the conning tower upgrade coincide with the antenna mounts as they become available, this way the mounts fit the proper radar upgrade with the correct conning tower upgrade.

All I can say for sure, as long as there are unnoticed errors like adding days to a month that don't belong, this problem of the past four years isn't going to be resolved.

[Ducimus]

The files below both come from their respective sub class boats found in the Submarine/NNS_Gato, and NSS_Gar.upc files. This is the "stock" game files used with the TMO 2.0 mod.

So what your saying, is the files in TMO are stock, I didn't do anything to them, and i should be reprimanded for not having the gregorian calender memorized? Am I understanding that paragraph correctly?

[DennyC]

I'm suspecting not all "mounts" will fit the conning tower upgrades offered. So what may be important is to have the conning tower upgrade coincide with the antenna mounts as they become available, this way the mounts fit the proper radar upgrade with the correct conning tower upgrade.

All I can say for sure, as long as there are unnoticed errors like adding days to a month that don't belong, this problem of the past four years isn't going to be resolved.

Thanks. I don't have a solution yet, but this would explain it if true. You saved me some hours of scratching around blindly, and I will scrutinize my Porpoise files for date conflicts or errors. I might also shorten this patrol and go for a new one and see what happens.

[TorpX]

As far as the short patrol solution is concerned:

If I read Ducimus past posts right, a poor patrol, even one single brief one, will seriously lower your rating. Meaning, your career will be jeopordized/ harmed. Is this not correct?

[magic452]

That is no doubt true but as he already has the new tower it should affect him and he will have several more patrols to improve his rating before the next upgrade.

Magic

[CapnScurvy]

So what your saying, is the files in TMO are stock, I didn't do anything to them, and i should be reprimanded for not having the gregorian calender memorized? Am I understanding that paragraph correctly?

My mistake in stating the TMO 2.0 Submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_Gato.upc and the Submarine/NSS_Gar/NSS_Gar.upc are stock. I should have said:

The files below both come from their respective sub class boats found in the Submarine/NNS_Gato, and NSS_Gar.upc files. This is the "stock" game files, with similar errors used with the TMO 2.0 mod.


There, that should make you feel better.

As far as a reprimand, who cares if you have anything memorized or not?
I don't.

This problem has been a long outstanding one, we can either try to correct it or leave the players to fend for themselves with it.

[Ducimus]

I've solved this little dilemma for myself.

UnitPartInterval=1941-11-01, 1942-03-01
UnitPartInterval=1942-03-02, 1942-08-01
UnitPartInterval=1942-08-02, 1943-01-01
UnitPartInterval=1943-01-02, 1944-01-01
UnitPartInterval=1944-01-02, NULL


That should make you happy.

[CapnScurvy]

I've solved this little dilemma for myself.

UnitPartInterval=1941-11-01, 1942-03-01
UnitPartInterval=1942-03-02, 1942-08-01
UnitPartInterval=1942-08-02, 1943-01-01
UnitPartInterval=1943-01-02, 1944-01-01
UnitPartInterval=1944-01-02, NULL


That should make you happy.



I'm tickled pink

You will need to ask the guys that have the problem with TMO if your thorough efforts paid off?


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In the mean time,

for those of you who use the stock game I'd like to offer a mod that may or may not work differently. The truth is, in order to see and verify that the changes made will work in all subs, at all times, at all sub base locations is going to take time. More time than I've got to put towards valid testing. Soooooo, I'm going to put this out like I'd give advice to my dog about chasing the cat, it may work and it may not.

The files involved are fairly extensive, from looking over the conning tower upgrade dates; to specific changes in the Flotillas (sub base) files. I found errors in dates being out of sequence with each other, to additional dates that don't exist (like having 31 days in a 30 day month). What does it all mean? AND does the changes I made going to make a difference in how the game deliverers the upgrades and equipment you put onto the boat? Only time will tell. Least its something to try.

Download HERE (http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=3053)

One important reminder:

There are several files in this mod that are .upc files. Many .upc files are taken to the SH4 "saved game" folders to be used there. For this reason do not use this mod with a previously saved game or mission. Those .upc files will conflict with these new files and I would not expect anything good coming from the mixture. Load this mod when in port starting a new mission, or start a completely new career in order to have it loaded properly.

[moha14881]

Did you just get refitted from the early war conning tower to a cut down version?

Yup, I did install the radar but it doesn't work and had to skip a war patrol (start a patrol and end it in port) to get a new boat.