US diplomat kills two Pakistanis in Lahore

[Gerald]

An American diplomat in the Pakistani city of Lahore has shot and killed a Pakistani motorcycle rider and his pillion passenger, police say.

Police told the AFP news agency that the American fired his pistol in self-defence. US embassy officials confirmed that an American was involved.Police say that the men were pursuing the American in his car.A pedestrian was also killed by a speeding car from the US consulate which came to help, police say.

Police told the Reuters news agency that they were investigating whether the two men on the motorcycle were robbers.

Weapons had been recovered from the bodies of the dead men, police said.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12298546

Note: 27 January 2011 Last updated at 14:08 GMT

[CCIP]

Sounds like something out of the Wild West to me. Perhaps an apt comparison to the current state of things in Pakistan :dead:

[Matador.es]

Interesting!

[Torvald Von Mansee]

"Diplomatic staff usually enjoy a certain type of immunity, but I am not sure about murder," he said. "We will consult the Foreign Office and legal advisers in this regard."

I do believe diplomatic immunity is absolute, and this guy NEVER should have even been taken into custody, let alone held. The U.S. government could waive that immunity, but I suspect not.

This would certainly not be the first time an Islamic country didn't respect a country's diplomatic status.

[FIREWALL]

HAPPY ENDING. :woot::D

[Platapus]

Was this guy a diplomat or a consular? The rules are a little different between the two.

Chances are he will just be PNGed, but that can affect his continuing career.

[Tribesman]

Was this guy a diplomat or a consular? The rules are a little different between the two.


The claim is that he wasn't diplomatic and didn't have local firearms permits.
If that claim is true (which seems likely given that they got away with holding him) then he is buggered until uncle sam makes a generous offer

[Platapus]

There you go. Not every one who works at an embassy or consulate has Diplomatic immunity.

If this guy is a low level employee and not Intel, the US will send a few strongly worded letters and then let him rot, I am afraid.

[Tribesman]

If this guy is a low level employee and not Intel, the US will send a few strongly worded letters and then let him rot, I am afraid.
There is a lot of speculation that he is Intel.
The US govt. seem to be making some big noise while the consulate itself and the embassy are playing it very different.
The driver of the second vehicle is likely to be facing charges relating to the 3rd fatality but should get limited immunity as it was work related.

[Gerald]

LAHORE, Pakistan – A Pakistani court ordered the government Tuesday not to release an American official arrested in the shooting deaths of two Pakistanis despite U.S. insistence that he has diplomatic immunity and has been detained illegally.

Lahore High Court Chief Justice Ijaz Chaudhry also told the government to place the American on the "exit control list" so that he cannot leave the country. Some legal experts questioned whether the court had the authority to issue such orders, but the rulings could further complicate what has become a serious diplomatic spat between the two countries.

The U.S. Embassy in Islamabad has argued that the American, who it has not named, acted in self-defense when he shot the two men in Lahore last Thursday because they were trying to rob him at gunpoint. It has issued several statements insisting he has diplomatic immunity and demanding he be released.

A copy of the American's passport obtained by The Associated Press identifies him as 36-year-old Raymond Allen Davis.

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2011/02/01/pakistani-court-blocks-release-american-suspect/


Note Update record, Published February 01, 2011

[Tribesman]

The plot thickens, what exactly is the status of a private security contractor when it comes to diplomacy?
Could they call him a mercenary or a spy and charge him for that too just for a laugh since it increasingly appears he has no immunity status.

[Platapus]

The plot thickens, what exactly is the status of a private security contractor when it comes to diplomacy?
Could they call him a mercenary or a spy and charge him for that too just for a laugh since it increasingly appears he has no immunity status.

A private security contractor would have no such status. And yes, depending on the interpretation of mercenary he could be charged as such.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

The plot thickens, what exactly is the status of a private security contractor when it comes to diplomacy?
Could they call him a mercenary or a spy and charge him for that too just for a laugh since it increasingly appears he has no immunity status.

You're only gleeful because the guy is American.

Pathetic, really.

[Tribesman]

You're only gleeful because the guy is American.


What planet are you on?:doh:

Oh I get it.....I do believe diplomatic immunity is absolute, and this guy NEVER should have even been taken into custody, let alone held.
....planet clueless in the CAPS LOCK system.

[Jimbuna]

If it turns out he has no immunity then his only mitigation can be self defence.

The moral being....don't try to rob somebody whilst carrying firearms if they are also armed.

[Platapus]

The issue of immunity should be pretty clear.

Diplomatic agents have it
Technical staff at the embassy have it
Support staff at the embassy don't

Consulars don't have it for felony type crimes
Technical staff at the consulate don't have it for felony type crimes
Support staff at the consulate don't have it at all.

This guys status should already be established before he entered the country. Strange that specifics about his credentials are not being released. :nope:

[Tribesman]

Strange that specifics about his credentials are not being released.
Indeed, both governments would have all the paperwork as would the embassy/consular office, any one of which could instantly resolve all questions about status....yet nothing at all has been put up which suggests that there is nothing, after all you wouldn't leave a person in custody if you could instantly get them released would you.

[Jimbuna]

Perhaps he is a.....SPY!!

[TLAM Strike]

Time has picked up the story...
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2047149,00.html

The interesting parts...
For Washington, the matter is simple: Davis, officals say, acted in self-defense when threatened by the two armed men trailing him. His diplomatic passport entitles him to full immunity from criminal prosecution under the Vienna Convention.

Pakistan's military, for reasons that are only now becoming apparent. Davis, they say, was no ordinary diplomat. They cite the skill with which he eliminated his pursuers as suggesting a familiarity with arms not common in the diplomatic corps. His fluency in Urdu and Pashto are also remarkable considering that he first arrived in Pakistan as recently as October 2009. Looks like this guy may have been a spook with official cover...

Equally misleading, say Pakistani officials, is the claim in Pakistani media that Davis' victims had been "ordinary men", or even as "robbers," as the State Department has suggested. "They were from the ISI," says a government official, referring to Pakistan's military intelligence agency That's just great. Got to love the ISI... :damn:

[Gerald]

A Pakistani police chief has said a US citizen in custody over the deaths of two men in Lahore last month was guilty of "cold-blooded murder".

Lahore city police chief Aslam Tareen told a news conference that one of the men was killed while running away.

He spoke after Raymond Davis was remanded for another 14 days following an appearance in a Lahore court.

Mr Davis, 36, has admitted he shot the men, but says he acted in self-defence because they were trying to rob him.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12427518


Note: Update Record,11 February 2011 Last updated at 10:03 GMT