Va. Senator Seeks to Castrate Sex Offenders

[Gerald]

RICHMOND, Va. -- A Virginia legislator is proposing castrating sex offenders as an alternative to the increasing costs to detain and treat them after they've served their prison sentences.

Republican Sen. Emmett Hanger's bill would require the state to study the use of physical castration as an alternative to civil commitment for sexually violent predators. A similar proposal was vetoed four years ago.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2011/01/26/va-senator-seeks-castrate-sex-offenders/


Note: Published January 26, 2011

[VipertheSniper]

Not that I like sexual predators, but this is just :nope:

[Oberon]

Sounds fair enough to me. :yep:

[Skybird]

In a time when pedophile perverts are allowed to publish guides about how to approach children without raising suspicion (Germany, some years ago), it must sound like an "inhumane" idea. However, sexual abberations like this cannot be treated in therapy, the psychological roots anchor too deep in early years of a person's life, and puberty. Chemically you sometimes can achieve some kind of containing effect, but that depends on the cooperation and good willingness of the subject, and alwysy includes the risk of abuse by the subject to create a backdoor through which to slip out.

On non-pedophile, non-alcoholised rapists, I think the simple act of rape demonstrates a certain attitude that frees us from the demand of respecting the offender, and it shows that the offender is invulnerable to learning the evil in what he did.

In these cases I am for castration indeed. If chemically possible with unlimited effect (only one injection per life), then this way, else by surgery.

The interests of victims weigh heavier than the interests of offenders. They are not to be weighted equally. In case of psychological distorted people it may even give them a freedom from their destructive drives that before they had not known, seeing their lives being totally dominated by fighting their fantasies, drives and desires all day long. That's why occasionally people like this are asking for chemical castrations, becaaeu they suffer from them selves and know they are a threat to the public, they suffer from their own nature and are not happy with themselves at all. Mind you: I speak of some offenders here, not of all - many are just this: pervert bastards that simply must be seen as criminals in the first.

[Gammelpreusse]

If people are voluntarily willing to have a castration, I am all for it. It's their decision.

If not, the case is different. Though I agree that the right of the potential victim always comes before the right of the offender, there are several options to consider first.

A lot of people simply need therapy. The success rate of those is fairly high. And it makes sense to get a productive member back into society, it saves money, if successfully reintegrated into society with these ppl paying taxes it actually provides money, it frees people up in the law department to take care of more dangerous cases and lowers the number of prison places required.

I agree this concept is not overly satisfying for a potential victim, but here I am actually with good old Jesus...everybody at least deserves a chance to make good of what they did. Mere revenge simply costs too much in monetary terms. And contrary to popular believe, most people who committing a crime, even rape, do regret it later on. The chance at least must be kept and there are numerous examples of this concept working out.

Then there there are those highly dangerous individuals who are indeed a danger to society, who indeed could be considered evil and will stay this way no matter what. Nothing can be done about that, especially when sickness comes together with mental degeneration. However, I am still against methods like forced castration not because these people deserve any better, but imho, because a state should never, ever have the power to intentionally harm another person without his/her consent, no matter in what spirit. The margin of error or abuse is simply too low and too dependent on current fashion and it is not the task of a state to please petty instincts like revenge. The state just has to make sure the rest of society is protected from these people.

Instead life long prison/custody/surveillance is warranted here.

[Takeda Shingen]

I have some ambivalence toward the matter. One one hand, my visceral reaction is joy at the prospect of something bad happening to sex offenders. Rationally, I feel that if we are to use this type of punishment, we might as well return to the days when theives would have a hand cut off, and wonder in fact if we are returning to a state of selective barbarism.

[Skybird]

A lot of people simply need therapy. The success rate of those is fairly high.

As an ex-pro, I must tell you that we learned it differently. It'S worse than with alcoholics, especially in case of pedophiles. You cannot treat or heal pedophilia. At best you can acchieve a certain degree of containment of the abbarated sexual drive - with a high rate of failures tzo acchieve that, and all pedophiles always remanming under high inner pressure.

There is no real therapy for healing, and there is no real therapy to guarantee a to-be-demanded minimum of security. The rate of people falling back into old patterns after having run therapies, is very high.

Vertrauen ist gut, but in this case Kontrolle ist nicht nur besser, but mandatory because: necessary. Like in drug therapy in hospitals and stationary treatement you also do not leave it to trusting them, but you control them. It is necessary.

[Skybird]

I have some ambivalence toward the matter. One one hand, my visceral reaction is joy at the prospect of something bad happening to sex offenders. Rationally, I feel that if we are to use this type of punishment, we might as well return to the days when theives would have a hand cut off, and wonder in fact if we are returning to a state of selective barbarism.

I do not think of it in terms of a punishement, like I do not consider death penalty as a punishement either (and have repeatedly argued so).

It is about prevention with other options failing or offering a blatant dysbalance between costs and results, and "ultimate prevention by final measurement" (castration, execution) in case of severe and grave danger to the public. And that criterion does not match for every case you deal with.

[the_tyrant]

On the bright side, we now have real Castrato singing opera:yeah:

still, i have a feeling that pedophiles will end up as a regulated accepted fetish with all this political correctness going on

[NeonSamurai]

My major concern is what about false conviction? Those do certainly happen, and more often then we tend to want to admit. Particularly in pedophile cases as children are incredibly unreliable witnesses, and have made false accusations in the past.

Sky is also correct, the rate of success with treatment is low, particularly dealing with therapy and psychopathic individuals (which many predatory sex offenders would fall under). Pedophilia is also not treatable either as the brains of these people are wired to be sexually aroused by children. There has been some success with drugs that suppress sexual desire and pedophiles, but it has its own problem.

[Gammelpreusse]

As an ex-pro, I must tell you that we learned it differently. It'S worse than with alcoholics, especially in case of pedophiles. You cannot treat or heal pedophilia.

No, you can not heal it, the same way you can't heal men of digging women or homosexuals digging their own gender, or all those fetishists digging their fetishes. But you can learn to control it. Pedophilia does not work much different then other drives, sometimes stronger, sometimes less strong. Sometimes they fall for these instincts, sometimes they don't, besides them being there. I dig women, I consider them hot. Does not mean I go out raping them on a regular basis. And even rapists are not serial offenders most of the time or do it again after having served their punishment, exceptions proving the rule. Same with pedophilia, really.

The big problem in this is to determine who is in danger of doing it again and who is not. That question has no satisfying answer so far and led to more victims, a tragedy that can't be repeated.

But going the easy route and starting to castrate people is not a solution worthy of a modern country, but fits into a medieval society. If you are not sure lock them up.

[danlisa]

Is this a deterrent or a solution?

[STEED]

Is this a deterrent or a solution?

Both, it will be a deterrent only too a few, as for the rest well you know. As for the solution that will stop those who have been caught performing the act again.

Interesting note here, some child abusers here when there sentence is finish do not want to come out of prison as they do not trust themselves as they know there is a good chance there do it again.

[Feuer Frei!]

There is no proven effective "cure" for pedophiles, which means that chemical castration has no value for these criminals.
Chemical castration may lower the sex drive, but it's not clear that it will erase motivations for sex crimes.
I have other notions for these so-called people who commit these abhorrant crimes, in particulat paedophilia, but these are not appropriate to be posted here.

[danlisa]

The proposal is rather small minded.

Are sex offenses only performed by offenders getting their wang out?

[Feuer Frei!]

Yes, it's small-minded, as you put it.
It's a step in the wrong direction.
It's a 'diplomatic' step, a step which still allows us to appear humane to each other in this 'treatment' for these offenders.
The question i have is this:
Were the offenders ever humane in their offenses? Or there motifs?
Were they humane in 'controlling' another human being in this way?
So, two wrongs don't make a right?
We have to be seen to be humane and allow these so-called people to 'volunteer' for this 'treatment?
What a joke!

[Growler]

This is precedent-setting - and that's ALWAYS cause for careful, considerate deliberation.

Once such a decision is made, it is a statement saying, "You cannot be redeemed by our society, so our society is discarding you in the easiest, cheapest way we can."

I agree with Takeda this far: If we resort to such behavior for sex offenders, what happens to car thieves? Extortionists? Black Marketeers? Shoplifters? Murderers? Bad parents? Do we start lopping off body parts there, too? I guess peeping toms should have their eyes carved out. Trespassers should have their feet cut off. Bad mommies get mastectomies. No, this form of punishment is extremism in its worst form.

Societally, we already know there are sex offenders in our towns. This additional step is barbarism, and actions wholly unbefitting a "civilized" nation.

[Feuer Frei!]

No, this form of punishment is extremism in its worst form.
So, your solution? Or workaround?
More treatment?
Longer incarceration?
Both?
Treatment does not guarantee an avoidance for re-offending.
Nor does (prolonged)incarceration.


This additional step is barbarism, and actions wholly unbefitting a "civilized" nation. Your arguements ring the same as the Council of Europe’s anti-torture committee, which cried: invasive, irreversible and mutilating” back in Feb 2009.
I think we are far too lenient on these offenders.
We must also consider wether there are Offenders OR RE- offenders in question here.
Do you castrate a offender, or a re-offender? If you are in the 'for castration group'.
There is a huge difference.
That in itself requires further discussion.

Treatment options are limited and not terribly effective — first you have to get it through to them that their desires are wrong, which may take years if it happens at all. It’s a long process and you can bet the state isn’t paying for enough counselors to make it happen.
In many prisons, counseling for sex offenders is optional…

Trouble with castration is that it can be reversed, through testosterone injections and the like.

[Growler]

Barbarism is barbarism, whether it's in Europe or Asia or the Americas or on the Moon, for that matter.

Tell me the difference between state-sponsored castration of an offender, and neighborhood castration of the offender. It's easy: one's allowed, the other's a crime. Why is something that takes place at the hands of state authorities less a crime than the same actions being taken by the people who put the state in power? Same goes for the death penalty, by the way - if the state kills a murderer, it's all good, but if the victim's family kills a murdered, it's murder; logic need not apply.

All that notwithstanding: What is the recidivism rate among sex offenders? Is there scientifically validated proof that chemical and/or physical castration has a marked positive influence on recidivism of sex offenders? Until those questions can be answered and agreed upon by a competent authority - and a Virginia legislator is NOT a competent authority on this matter - then such a law should be vigorously opposed

[TheSatyr]

If you castrate male sex offenders,than how do you punish female sex offenders?

[Gerald]

My major concern is what about false conviction? Those do certainly happen, and more often then we tend to want to admit. Particularly in pedophile cases as children are incredibly unreliable witnesses, and have made false accusations in the past.

Sky is also correct, the rate of success with treatment is low, particularly dealing with therapy and psychopathic individuals (which many predatory sex offenders would fall under). Pedophilia is also not treatable either as the brains of these people are wired to be sexually aroused by children. There has been some success with drugs that suppress sexual desire and pedophiles, but it has its own problem. false conviction,precisely those words in context, clearly worrying, if he is innocent

[Takeda Shingen]

So, your solution? Or workaround?
More treatment?
Longer incarceration?
Both?
Treatment does not guarantee an avoidance for re-offending.
Nor does (prolonged)incarceration.


Your arguements ring the same as the Council of Europe’s anti-torture committee, which cried: invasive, irreversible and mutilating” back in Feb 2009.
I think we are far too lenient on these offenders.
We must also consider wether there are Offenders OR RE- offenders in question here.
Do you castrate a offender, or a re-offender? If you are in the 'for castration group'.
There is a huge difference.
That in itself requires further discussion.

Treatment options are limited and not terribly effective — first you have to get it through to them that their desires are wrong, which may take years if it happens at all. It’s a long process and you can bet the state isn’t paying for enough counselors to make it happen.
In many prisons, counseling for sex offenders is optional…

Trouble with castration is that it can be reversed, through testosterone injections and the like.

I guess that I would counter with the question, what is the purpose of the American penal system? Is it punishment or rehabilitation? If it is punishment, it is worth noting that such a system would be entirely ineffective, as the only sentiment likely to be born in such an environment is resentment. Coupled with the fact that a veritable library of information regarding any number of criminal trades is available due to being in close proximity with the rest of the prisoner population, it seems clear that a punishment approach would be an abject failure. All this would produce are further hardened and smarter criminals on release. Any type of punishment by mutilation is likely to be ineffective to the ends of punishment as deterent. Fear of capital punishment has not decreased the rates of violent crime, and so I have no reason to believe that fear of castration would decrease the rate of sex crimes.

If rehabilitation is sought, then castration is also ineffective. It may lower the sex drive, but the psychological desire remains intact. And so mutilation does not serve either end. What we end up having is revenge being the purpose of the penal system, which is the heart of barbarism.

[Blood_splat]

Just track them with grave markers.

[Gerald]

Tracking, and special implament already used

[DarkFish]

If you castrate male sex offenders,than how do you punish female sex offenders?Ever heard of something called a clitoris?:DL

EDIT: maybe cutting away the ovaries would be a better comparison with castration, anyway, you get the point;)

[Skybird]

If you castrate male sex offenders,than how do you punish female sex offenders?
Note that castration in juristic context does not necessarily mean to snip off a little something, but an intervention on hormone level. This may be acchieved by cutting the lead of gonades to the rest of the organism, but maybe can also be acchieved chemically with a drug. In fact the latter is done to supress the sexual drive of sexual offenders if they will this treatement, I just do not know if there is a drug that is not needed to be used in frequent, regular intervals, but just once. The latter would be needed to call it a "castration" and would be the criterion that any escape hole for the subject is ruled out. There is no point in snipping off external sexual organs if the hormone production creating sexual drive is still active - in case of the latter the subject then still would be motivated to target prey and abuse victims.

Injecting opposite sexual hormones into the organism also can have a massive change in sexual drive, even personality and character. Certain types of cancer get treated with massive injections of such hormones, for example, which can be accompanied by such drastic personality changes. Such was the case with my grandfather.

[Krauter]

Fair enough to me :).

You dehumanize someone else in your lust, then you yourself should be dehumanized.

Take out his eyes too so he can't look at others and abuse them in his mind.

I have no pity on people who decide to assault someone sexually, be they a child or an adult.

[Ducimus]

Va. Senator Seeks to Castrate Sex Offenders

Sure, why not. Rapists and pedophiles should be removed from the gene pool. I can't think of a more humane way to go about it. :haha:

[Platapus]

What makes anyone thing that a sexual offender will stop simply because they have their nuts snipped?

Dogs and cats lose interest in sexual matters when "fixed" Humans don't.

BTW, a man's "mr. happy" will work just fine if castrated well in to adulthood. Sure he won't be able to procreate, but sexual offenders are not interested in fatherhood.

Castrating sexual offenders is simply an emotional concept of somehow "getting even" and lacks an understanding of human sexuality.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument that castration renders an adult man incapable of obtaining an erection. Do you think that will stop sexual offenders???

They will be even more frustrated and will simply molest people with an other object.

The expectation that a sexual offender, after castration, will simply stop and start being a good boy is sophistry.

[Krauter]

They can't covet what they can't see :dead:

[Takeda Shingen]

What makes anyone thing that a sexual offender will stop simply because they have their nuts snipped?

Dogs and cats lose interest in sexual matters when "fixed" Humans don't.

BTW, a man's "mr. happy" will work just fine if castrated well in to adulthood. Sure he won't be able to procreate, but sexual offenders are not interested in fatherhood.

Castrating sexual offenders is simply an emotional concept of somehow "getting even" and lacks an understanding of human sexuality.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument that castration renders an adult man incapable of obtaining an erection. Do you think that will stop sexual offenders???

They will be even more frustrated and will simply molest people with an other object.

The expectation that a sexual offender, after castration, will simply stop and start being a good boy is sophistry.

Castration will not stop sexual behavior. As a case in point, the castrato Gaetano Majorano (stage name Caffarelli) was a notorious philanderer; sleeping with countless women, married and unwed, across nearly all social classes. This behavior was typical of most castrati, given their rock star status during the mid and late Baroque.

[Tchocky]

This is a grisly idea.

Also, jamming sex-drive/desire-modifying chemicals into someone who is already quite messed up seems like a really stupid idea.

[Skybird]

What makes anyone thing that a sexual offender will stop simply because they have their nuts snipped?

Dogs and cats lose interest in sexual matters when "fixed" Humans don't.

BTW, a man's "mr. happy" will work just fine if castrated well in to adulthood. Sure he won't be able to procreate, but sexual offenders are not interested in fatherhood.

Castrating sexual offenders is simply an emotional concept of somehow "getting even" and lacks an understanding of human sexuality.

Let's suppose, for the sake of argument that castration renders an adult man incapable of obtaining an erection. Do you think that will stop sexual offenders???

They will be even more frustrated and will simply molest people with an other object.

The expectation that a sexual offender, after castration, will simply stop and start being a good boy is sophistry.
Physical castration results in different effects depending on whether it is done before or after end of puberty. For youngsters, the effetcs are more darmatic. But even adult men see a significant decline of libido and aggression/aggressiveness, becasue the production of testosteron is decreasing, always. It can also be followed by personality changes, general low motivation and drive, depressions. Ocassionally, physical deseases like diabetes also can come as a result.

So, physical castration effects the hormone homeostasis of the organism, both in men and women, but in varying degrees depending on the age when the operation is being done.

As far as I know, chemical castration is known to function with men only. So-called anti-androgen drugs supress male sexual hormone production in general, thus creates a general effect of limited drive, not only sexually, but generally.

You see that in castrated tomcats, too: they often become lazy, and fatter then they were before. ;)

In Germany, sexual offenders in prison can obtain recognition of not being dangerous anymore and acchieve reduction of their prison term and getting freed, if they agree to castration (voluntarily).