Scapa Flow Question

[reignofdeath]

Okay. This is for Scapa Flow or any harbour really. So I was playing one of my careers last night and was on my way back around the north end of Britain. When I decided to look at the capital ship dates and where they were moored at. And realized the Hood was in Scap Flow!!! So I timed it and go to Scapa at night and snuck in on the surface (This is October 1939) then I found it got about 5km away, set my 4 torps to run on surface (because of sub nets) and fired (from a perfect 90* angle) and took off. Only problem was it didnt sink, If it would have been in deeper water I think it would have. I saw life boats deployed but no ship sunk message. My question is this. In Scapa Flow (Or any shallow harbour for that matter) do I need to hit them with enough torpedoes to destroy their hull "hit points" in GWX?? Or can I "sink" a battle ship there and get credit??

What happened is the hood just listed to the side all four eels hit on heavily. Im just mad because I spent all that time sneaking in without a hitch, fired four perfect angle impacts, which all hit. (they were spread to hit different parts of the ship) and got away with out having a single trashcan dropped on me. All to find out that I didnt in fact sink a single battle ship :nope:

[Missing Name]

I did the exact same thing in Scapa. Except after the first four hits, I waited a bit, danced with the escorts and fired another four for a total of six hits. Only then did I get credit by reducing it to zero points.

The problem is that if the water is shallow enough, the bottom supports the ship and keeps it from sinking. This is true for almost any of the harbors. The only real exception I've seen is Gibraltar, where the water is fairly deep.

[danexpat]

What happened is the hood just listed to the side all four eels hit on heavily. Im just mad because I spent all that time sneaking in without a hitch, fired four perfect angle impacts, which all hit. (they were spread to hit different parts of the ship) and got away with out having a single trashcan dropped on me. All to find out that I didnt in fact sink a single battle ship :nope:

I did the exact same thing in Scapa. Except after the first four hits, I waited a bit, danced with the escorts and fired another four for a total of six hits. Only then did I get credit by reducing it to zero points.

Does the game have the Hood as a BB or BC? I've seen other threads here asking the same question re: sinking in shallow water. Not sure what the consensus is with GWX though. Didn't GWX eliminate overall hit points as part of improved damage modeling?

[Missing Name]

I thought it multiplied the hit points by a large number, making you rely on flooding or hitting bunkers. However, 6 torpedoes seemed to do the trick on a bottomed Hood.

As for BB or BC, the engine sound is the battleship engine sound, plus the ship is EXTREMELY heavy. Yet the guns and armor were pretty light for a battleship... I'll just say that the Hood is only describable as theHood.

[Gargamel]

I recently did a Scapa Flow incursion, followed the historic path that Prien took. Fairly easy to get in if you catch the weather at the right time (good visibility and calm enough you wont get pounded on the bottom). I got stuck outside the harbor for 3 days, had to avoid ASW patrols for that period in 15m water. Little stressful.


Then there wasn't anything worth shooting in there. :nope:


Just saying this as a tip for anybody else who want's to try an incursion. It's built into GWX to leave that path open, just do a little research and recon. I found it lots of fun to do my own recon and such, just like Prien.

[reignofdeath]

I recently did a Scapa Flow incursion, followed the historic path that Prien took. Fairly easy to get in if you catch the weather at the right time (good visibility and calm enough you wont get pounded on the bottom). I got stuck outside the harbor for 3 days, had to avoid ASW patrols for that period in 15m water. Little stressful.


Then there wasn't anything worth shooting in there. :nope:


Just saying this as a tip for anybody else who want's to try an incursion. It's built into GWX to leave that path open, just do a little research and recon. I found it lots of fun to do my own recon and such, just like Prien.

What path did he use?? lately (mind you its 1939) Ive been coming from the west then up through that little bottle neck at the south (basically under scapa flow) and been getting in without a hitch, only 2 escorts to avoid really)

[Gargamel]

What path did he use?? lately (mind you its 1939) Ive been coming from the west then up through that little bottle neck at the south (basically under scapa flow) and been getting in without a hitch, only 2 escorts to avoid really)

There's a whole webpage out there dedicated to his raid on Scapa flow. One of the first google results actually. It's good reading. I'll let you figure it out. I will say though the historic route is the easiest. Once you get past the outer patrol, there are no patrols to encounter on your way in. You actually run on the surface the whole way.


Oh heck... www.u47.org (http://www.u47.org) there ya go... made it easy for ya.

Edit: And reading the site again, the GWX version is actually easier than historic, probably has to do with the game mechanics and how the barrier ships are placed.

[reignofdeath]

There's a whole webpage out there dedicated to his raid on Scapa flow. One of the first google results actually. It's good reading. I'll let you figure it out. I will say though the historic route is the easiest. Once you get past the outer patrol, there are no patrols to encounter on your way in. You actually run on the surface the whole way.


Oh heck... www.u47.org (http://www.u47.org) there ya go... made it easy for ya.

Edit: And reading the site again, the GWX version is actually easier than historic, probably has to do with the game mechanics and how the barrier ships are placed.

Danke!:up:

[Missing Name]

Cool site...

[Gargamel]

Cool site...


Yes, I figured you'd get a kick out of that MN. :O::D

But it's a great read. One of the first u-boat related sites I found after starting SH3. Think FK set me onto it somehow.

[krashkart]

What happened is the hood just listed to the side all four eels hit on heavily. Im just mad because I spent all that time sneaking in without a hitch, fired four perfect angle impacts, which all hit. (they were spread to hit different parts of the ship) and got away with out having a single trashcan dropped on me. All to find out that I didnt in fact sink a single battle ship :nope:

One thing you might try is aiming your impact torpedoes toward points under the gun turrets. You might detonate some magazines and cause more damage that way. Hitting the fuel bunkers can also be effective. :)

[reignofdeath]

I didnt think of that one. I just aimed the four torps at an even spread

[Lord_magerius]

Every time I hit Scapa I always head in through the Holm Sound, it gives you a good feeling surfacing the boat and just missing the two sunken ships before diving again on the other side :yeah:.
On another semi related note, I always used to start careers with U-47 before I even knew it was Prien's boat. I had a good laugh when I found out I was up to the same antics in the same boat :D

[desirableroasted]

I didnt think of that one. I just aimed the four torps at an even spread

Shooting salvos almost always fails cost/benefit analysis, especially when you can take the time to find your solution and shoot.

It takes only a half minute or so extra to shoot four separate shots, which, even when you are under pressure, gives you far better target control (and spares you the stress of watching spread angle, etc).

For the past year or two, I've only used salvos (two shot salvos only) when making snap-shots under extreme pressure -- and even then, it has rarely been worth the candle.

Run the Courageous single mission a few times and compare how you do with 4-shot salvos against 4 single shots. I think you will be surprised at the results.

[reignofdeath]

Shooting salvos almost always fails cost/benefit analysis, especially when you can take the time to find your solution and shoot.

It takes only a half minute or so extra to shoot four separate shots, which, even when you are under pressure, gives you far better target control (and spares you the stress of watching spread angle, etc).

For the past year or two, I've only used salvos (two shot salvos only) when making snap-shots under extreme pressure -- and even then, it has rarely been worth the candle.

Run the Courageous single mission a few times and compare how you do with 4-shot salvos against 4 single shots. I think you will be surprised at the results.

Well the reason I did it is because I knew that as soon as i fired (It was a night surface attack) I was at flank speed heading away from where I fired to dodge escorts coming to find me. Thats why I fired the salvo so I didnt have to wait for each tube to open, and as soon as the fourth left the tube I could leave. Mind you I had them all set to slow and was about 5km away.

Which brings me to another question, Ive started doing this (because I read that destroyers backtrack your torpedoes progress to the firing point) and have fired from 5km at night used flank to get pretty far away then dove and switched to silent running and 50 rpms and destroyers still come straight for me as soon as the torpedoes hit. What gives??? Is there a way (Besides Electrics) to fire and get away without a hitch??

[Gargamel]

The flank speed is what's giving you away.

Fire the electric eels, and just creep away at low speed. If your using gas eels, they will have trouble figuring your range since you are a ways off I'd assume, and if you never give them a solid contact, they'll never find you.

[Lord_magerius]

Well the reason I did it is because I knew that as soon as i fired (It was a night surface attack) I was at flank speed heading away from where I fired to dodge escorts coming to find me. Thats why I fired the salvo so I didnt have to wait for each tube to open, and as soon as the fourth left the tube I could leave. Mind you I had them all set to slow and was about 5km away.

Which brings me to another question, Ive started doing this (because I read that destroyers backtrack your torpedoes progress to the firing point) and have fired from 5km at night used flank to get pretty far away then dove and switched to silent running and 50 rpms and destroyers still come straight for me as soon as the torpedoes hit. What gives??? Is there a way (Besides Electrics) to fire and get away without a hitch??

Like Gargamel said, the flank is what's giving you away, also in an area such as Scapa, with its shallow waters, it doesn't take much tuning for the ASDIC to find you. Set for silent running and keep adjusting your course, I find using the rudder controls rather than the compass makes this easier. As when you give a course change using the compass, you will always go hard to starboard or port, but if you set it for a 9 degree turn to port you will be able to maintain 2/3kts easily rather than the 1kt when your rudder is hard to port/starboard.
You can use the shallow waters to good effect though, especially in Scapa, I have found out to my great pleasure, that when leaving, hug the coastline as close as you dare. The DD's will be so engrossed in destroying you that they don't notice the beach rapidly approaching :D
"Hard to port!"
"Sir we can't, the water has turned to some form of grainy brown stuff"
"Drop a charge!"
*Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!" :haha:
I don't know if anyone uses this technique, but I set my eels for the fastest time to target over distance. i.e distance <5000m fast. 5000 - 8000 Medium and 8000 - 12000 Slow. This works a treat when the weather is perfectly clear and you are 10km away from a port, as you can fire the eels off and be away at slow speed before anyone even notices you are there. The only downside to this is the poorer the weather the closer you need to get, but of course these are the moments we live for.
Distance to target 450m, estimated tonnage 11000GRT, eels left: 2, arsehole twitching like a rabbits nose.... FIRE!
Oh yes!:arrgh!:

[reignofdeath]

Like Gargamel said, the flank is what's giving you away, also in an area such as Scapa, with its shallow waters, it doesn't take much tuning for the ASDIC to find you. Set for silent running and keep adjusting your course, I find using the rudder controls rather than the compass makes this easier. As when you give a course change using the compass, you will always go hard to starboard or port, but if you set it for a 9 degree turn to port you will be able to maintain 2/3kts easily rather than the 1kt when your rudder is hard to port/starboard.
You can use the shallow waters to good effect though, especially in Scapa, I have found out to my great pleasure, that when leaving, hug the coastline as close as you dare. The DD's will be so engrossed in destroying you that they don't notice the beach rapidly approaching :D
"Hard to port!"
"Sir we can't, the water has turned to some form of grainy brown stuff"
"Drop a charge!"
*Boooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!" :haha:
I don't know if anyone uses this technique, but I set my eels for the fastest time to target over distance. i.e distance <5000m fast. 5000 - 8000 Medium and 8000 - 12000 Slow. This works a treat when the weather is perfectly clear and you are 10km away from a port, as you can fire the eels off and be away at slow speed before anyone even notices you are there. The only downside to this is the poorer the weather the closer you need to get, but of course these are the moments we live for.
Distance to target 450m, estimated tonnage 11000GRT, eels left: 2, arsehole twitching like a rabbits nose.... FIRE!
Oh yes!:arrgh!:

waiiit 12,000 m?? I thought the max range on torps was 5k?? and I didnt know that about surface vessels, so I need to creep away at 2knts under 50 rpm and silent??

[Gargamel]

Each type of eel has a different range. Hit the I key and click on each type. gas eels have different ranges based on the speed they are set to.

[Missing Name]

In reality, the 44 kn setting was reserved for torpedo boats or destroyers. Then again, they only really had the option of attacking from the side with impact settings. Speed would be vital there.

[Tessa]

Okay. This is for Scapa Flow or any harbour really. So I was playing one of my careers last night and was on my way back around the north end of Britain. When I decided to look at the capital ship dates and where they were moored at. And realized the Hood was in Scap Flow!!! So I timed it and go to Scapa at night and snuck in on the surface (This is October 1939) then I found it got about 5km away, set my 4 torps to run on surface (because of sub nets) and fired (from a perfect 90* angle) and took off. Only problem was it didnt sink, If it would have been in deeper water I think it would have. I saw life boats deployed but no ship sunk message. My question is this. In Scapa Flow (Or any shallow harbour for that matter) do I need to hit them with enough torpedoes to destroy their hull "hit points" in GWX?? Or can I "sink" a battle ship there and get credit??

What happened is the hood just listed to the side all four eels hit on heavily. Im just mad because I spent all that time sneaking in without a hitch, fired four perfect angle impacts, which all hit. (they were spread to hit different parts of the ship) and got away with out having a single trashcan dropped on me. All to find out that I didnt in fact sink a single battle ship :nope:

Sinking large ships (espcially warships) in shallow water is always harder than if they're moving (even if its still relatively shallow like 50m). They'll flood to a certain point and then cease to take on any more water, so you're stuck expending more torpedoes into them.

In Scapa the Hood can easily be sunk with 2 torpedoes, though you'll need to go behind the subnets in order to use a magnetic setting. Aim under both turrets and fire 2 eels one after another (you could use a salvo, though recommend manually aiming so you're sure you're aiming at the magazines) and it will 8 times out of 10 catostrophically blow up on the 2nd hit. If you really want to make sure it goes down on your first shot use 3 eels, 2 under the turrets and one under the middle.

If you're not using hsie's realistic repairs mod that gives you the correct amount of usuable submerged air you need to time the attack so it sink sometime in the late evening so you can surface for a few minutes to swap out air. Long as you're out of sight of land and any DD's are 10 km or further away you're generally safe to surface for the time needed to clear the CO2 and then resubmerge. In exceptionally bad weather its possible to cruise out on the surface undetected, just remember visibility goes both ways. Long as you don't spot any DD's you're safer cruising on the surface than on silent speed underwater; but if you run into a DD its going to be at near point blank range and will shred you to pieces while you dive and try to desperately evade.

[SummerStorm]

Slightly different topic but dont want to clutter the board.

I play vanilla SH3 (if thats what you call the bog standard DVD) and well in current mission sneaked into scap, skin of the teeth and after waiting in an alcove to make sure I hit the harbour deep in the night, I find it a ghost town. Is this normal for vanilla? Earlier I did scapa( 1st/2nd mission) and sunk a few of them ships with guns, all anchored up and not as passive aggressive as they are on the open sea. So I am somewhat confused and howling (silently) at the sky in rage.

Many thanks wolfpack

[Gargamel]

Slightly different topic but dont want to clutter the board.

I play vanilla SH3 (if thats what you call the bog standard DVD) and well in current mission sneaked into scap, skin of the teeth and after waiting in an alcove to make sure I hit the harbour deep in the night, I find it a ghost town. Is this normal for vanilla? Earlier I did scapa( 1st/2nd mission) and sunk a few of them ships with guns, all anchored up and not as passive aggressive as they are on the open sea. So I am somewhat confused and howling (silently) at the sky in rage.

Many thanks wolfpack

Not sure about vanilla, but I know historically that Scapa was populated randomly throughout the war. There didn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it. As the war progressed and they realized how vulnerable it really was, they moved most of the operations to other locations.

So it all depends upon when exactly you hit Scapa. Check the mission editor for the exact details if you really want to know.

[andwii]

wait where can I find the moore dates and places for captial ships, thats something that I wanna know.

[Gargamel]

Like I mentioned, checck the mission editor. Just load up the scripted.scr (?) file and you can step through the dates to find what ships are there and when. I think Jim has posted a precise list a couple times. Check some of the other threads you found when you searched for this one :) . There may also be outside historical resources that would be acccurate for GWX, as they tried to stick to those as much as they could.

[SummerStorm]

Not sure about vanilla, but I know historically that Scapa was populated randomly throughout the war. There didn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to it. As the war progressed and they realized how vulnerable it really was, they moved most of the operations to other locations.

So it all depends upon when exactly you hit Scapa. Check the mission editor for the exact details if you really want to know.

Appreciate the reply, cheers