Air Attack Threat

[Kip Chiakopf]

I'm a bit hazy about how the allied air threat works. If I'm reading the forums correctly, they won't occur if the TC is above 128. Also, what about the time frame? For example, I'm based in Lorient in 1941. How big a threat is air attack? When and where should I start worrying about it?

[Gargamel]

They sometimes occur over x128, but there's a bug that sometimes occurs that won't let them spawn at high TC's. But if they do spawn, you have almost no time to react, or even sometimes, they have already made their first attack run before you've dropped out of TC.

It gets worse the later into the war you go. They '44-'45 career i recently played, I was glad for snorkels, for i almost never surfaced. Even then their radar picked up the mast. But for the first 12 months, it's an annoyance at worst, but quickly picks up. By '42-'43 ish, the Bay of biscay was a shooting gallery.

[papa_smurf]

I'm a bit hazy about how the allied air threat works. If I'm reading the forums correctly, they won't occur if the TC is above 128. Also, what about the time frame? For example, I'm based in Lorient in 1941. How big a threat is air attack? When and where should I start worrying about it?

I'm currently in 1941, and too based in Lorient. Don't worry about air attacks until 1943, then its crash diving every time you spot aircraft:doh:.

[stokeyblokey]

I've only just installed GWX so can't comment on if it is the same or not, but in stock SH3 it is exactly as papa smurf says. You can man the AA guns and bring down quite a few planes early in the war (39-41) but after that you'd better watch those skies and keep a finger ready on the crash dive key!

[desirableroasted]

I've only just installed GWX so can't comment on if it is the same or not, but in stock SH3 it is exactly as papa smurf says. You can man the AA guns and bring down quite a few planes early in the war (39-41) but after that you'd better watch those skies and keep a finger ready on the crash dive key!

I think you will find GWX planes a somewhat tougher, more realistic, bird, even in 39, if you want to duke it out with them.

Unless you are just forced to do it because of your tactical situation or being in very shallow water (and if so, why? why on earth?), the cost/benefit of taking on even a Swordfish just doesn't add up.

And after Hans gets blown all over the deck by 16 .303 rounds passing through him in 2 seconds, you probably won't get anyone else out there for a second go.

[Gargamel]

I think you will find GWX planes a somewhat tougher, more realistic, bird, even in 39, if you want to duke it out with them.

Unless you are just forced to do it because of your tactical situation or being in very shallow water (and if so, why? why on earth?), the cost/benefit of taking on even a Swordfish just doesn't add up.

And after Hans gets blown all over the deck by 16 .303 rounds passing through him in 2 seconds, you probably won't get anyone else out there for a second go.

Just leaving port perhaps?

[stokeyblokey]

I hear ya about those GWX "planes on steroids" and will try to avoid at all costs :salute:

The shallow entry and exit to Lorient was always white knuckle later on in the war, now it is going to be a "flank speed and hope Hans can shoot better than I can"...you just put me off DiD :haha:

[Gargamel]

I hear ya about those GWX "planes on steroids" and will try to avoid at all costs :salute:

The shallow entry and exit to Lorient was always white knuckle later on in the war, now it is going to be a "flank speed and hope Hans can shoot better than I can"...you just put me off DiD :haha:

Wait till you do some patrols from Norway in '44-'45. Narrow, barely deep enough to sail Fjords, with massive B17 bombing raids every time i pulled out of port. Shoot Hans Shoot! And get the hell away from other targets!

[Brag]

In GWX3, even in 1941, airplanes from Gibraltar and Fretown are already a pain on the gazoombahs.

[Missing Name]

I will only engage lone planes if I am loading torpedoes, repairing or charging batteries. A Swordfish? Man the FlaKvierling. Fork-tailed Devil? ALAAAAAAAARM!

[desirableroasted]

I hear ya about those GWX "planes on steroids" and will try to avoid at all costs :salute:

The shallow entry and exit to Lorient was always white knuckle later on in the war, now it is going to be a "flank speed and hope Hans can shoot better than I can"...you just put me off DiD :haha:

Won't matter. Neither of you will shoot well enough.

Crank the engines, tear out, zig and zag. And hope.

[stokeyblokey]

Won't matter. Neither of you will shoot well enough.

Crank the engines, tear out, zig and zag. And hope.

..hope that when Hans gets splashed all over your nice shiny paintwork your replacement gunner is not called Bernard, by any chance? :D

Having been KIA twice whilst snorkeling from completely unseen but extremely accurate aviators just playing later-war stock SH3, I am thinking DiD or not this is going to be a much harder challenge than I was expecting! *goes off to have a look at realism settings*

[Randomizer]

Having been KIA twice whilst snorkeling from completely unseen but extremely accurate aviators just playing later-war stock SH3
There are ways to survive the air threat when snorkeling, even in GWX3 so the techniques should work in stock. No guarentees though...

1. Map updates must be "ON".

2. Navigate only from the Map screen zoomed to 2500 metre squares with one periscope raised. I use the observation scope but it doesn't seem to matter which one you use. Raising both scopes does not appear to help either nor does using high magnification.

3. Run Ahead One-Third for a speed of advance of 5-6 knots when charging batteries and 7 knots on standard propulsion;

4. TC will kill you, maximum x16 which make snorkeling tedious at times.

5. Watch the map carefully, aircraft icons (triangles) should become visible at 3000-4000 metres. You must IMMEDIATLY drop to x1 TC and get the mast and periscope down. The game will NOT automatically drop to x1 when an aircraft appears so you must do so manually. Crash dive and do a radical turn at flank speed to place the boat on a course 90 degrees from the relative bearing to the aircraft. In many cases the aircraft may not have seen you but if it has, this evasion trick should minimize the chance of getting damage.

6. If you have radar detecters fitted on your masts, don't count on them to protect you and ramp up the TC. Rocket equipped carrier planes and single engined fighters lacking radar can still spoil your day when snorkeling. Without radar detectors it is actually often safer to snorkel in daylight since you can see the aircraft from a greater distance.

7. In overcast conditions, sometimes the range when the aircraft is spotted is much shorter but the key to survival is to get the boat down... Fast.

8. Minimizing the time spent snorkeling reduces your exposure to air attack. Snorkel 3-4 times per day for less than 1-hour per occasion, the aim is to keep the batteries charged to >90% and the CO2 <2% and so preserve your options when targets are detected. Historical details are conflicting but it would seem that boats seldom cruised whle snorkeling and instead snorted to air the boat and top up the batteries several times per day. Cruising was done submerged at 2 knots so your rate of advance is seldom greater than 90 km in 24-hours and usually much less. Commanding a snorkel boat in SH3 is an exercise in patiance.

9. If you're spotted and attacked it is usually best to remain under for at least an hour before attempting to snorkel again. When operating inshore (like the North Channel or Irish Sea) being detected will sometimes draw a surface force to hunt you. You should detect them first and be far enough from the initial datum to evade but this can draw you away from where you want to be.

10. In a snorkel boat you cease to become a hunter and are instead a bushwhacker; attacking only those targets that come to you since, in most situations you cannot go to the targets. Imagine yourself as an only slightly mobile minefield. With a Type XXI you have a few more approach and attack options but are not invincible or undetectable so all of the above can help keep you alive.

Some might say that 10,000 GRT in 1944-45 is more of a challange than 100,000 GRT in 1939-40.

Good Luck and Good Hunting.

[papa_smurf]

In GWX3, even in 1941, airplanes from Gibraltar and Fretown are already a pain on the gazoombahs.

I'm currently heading towards the Gibraltar area in my IX-C, so better have extra gazoombahs:D.

[Missing Name]

Still waiting for the IX2 conning tower. The 3.7 FlaK single shot is almost useless against aircraft - better to have 2 smaller guns that put more lead in the air. Favorite combo: IX3 tower, two 2cm/38 Zwilling and a 2cm FlaKvierling. More dakka IS better.

[krashkart]

My hunch is that some of the aircraft just crash and burn as soon as they spawn at higher time compression. I made a little mod for personal use awhile back that jacked up the radar range enough to where I could detect everything within 30 klicks. At x128 a small percentage of aircraft would crash as soon as they popped into the area, and the little triangles would become 'sunk vessel' icons on the map. TC goes higher than 128 and a larger percentage of those aircraft would crash and burn at spawn.

Single aircraft, and sometimes pairs, would usually come through just fine. I think it might have something to do with the sudden jump in memory usage when the larger swarms spawn. The engine overloads and throws a 'destroyed' flag for any aircraft that didn't spawn into memory properly.

So, maybe it's not that the engine refuses to spawn aircraft at higher TC, maybe it's just that some of the aircraft instances/entities don't load into memory properly, and end up being flagged as 'destroyed'.

I'm not a software engineer or anything like that, but that's my hunch. *shrug*

[stokeyblokey]

Randomizer, thanks for the advice - I was already doing most of what you mentioned but I reckon the old impatience probably got the better of me and I went too high on the TC, and/or too long on the snorkel after letting the battery charge drop a long way during the previous contact.

Anyhow, I'm back in 1939 with a trusty old VIIB playing GWX so will have plenty of time to work on the patience before snorkeling is an issue again :salute: