Veganism

[GoldenRivet]

As i sit here after enjoying a late breakfast of scrambled eggs, tobasco sauce, sausage and a biscuit im reminded... I have this friend, she is a vegan, we are guests in her house occasionally. Occasionally she will cook us dinner or perhaps breakfast if we choose to spend the night.

I'm here to tell you, either she cannot cook, or veganism is the most bland, tasteless, unexciting lifestyle where food is concerned.

everything we have ever consumed in her home has been made of some sort of whole wheat, whole grain, soy something or other and it has been a full time job just to choke down a few ounces of it.

she claims numerous health benifits to her veganism but this doesnt stop her from tipping the scales at over 200+ lbs, which, for her 5'4" frame is rather... fluffy.

We were eating breakfast at her house just a day or two ago and she made these cinnamon rolls... i can guess the recipe:

take one slice of whole grain bread and roll it into a biscuit shape. let it sit out for 2 days, drizzle it with watered down sour cream and cinnamon sprinkles... serve :cry:

but despite the horrendous lack of flavor in pretty much all of the dishes served, they all seem to take more than 1-2 hours to prepare. how it takes 2 hours to prepare and serve only to turn out with a taste comparable to 8.5"x11" college ruled notebook paper is beyond me.

personally, I'd just as soon eat two eggs over easy served atop a t-bone steak with a glass of orange juice. thats a working man's breakfast.

i'm thankful that i have a woman who knows how to feed her man something thats not only rich in flavor but is traditional and is going to stick to his bones until lunch time!

anyone else suffer through the vegan lifestyle in some way or another?




rant over;)

[gimpy117]

veganism is silly.

cows make milk all by them selves

chickens lay eggs just for fun

and were gonna waste that?

[Platapus]

Not many people who are vegans or vegetarians know how to cook their meals. :nope:

It does take some doing, however, a person used to eating meat will not be fooled. One of the mistakes that some vegans/vegetarians make is trying to make their food look and taste like meat. :nope:

That simply does not work. A good vegan meal will taste like a good vegan meal. And people need to recognize that may people just don't like the taste of vegan/vegetarian meals.:yep:

[Platapus]

veganism is silly.



No it is not silly, it is a lifestyle that some choose that you don't agree with. Lets be a little more inclusive.

[tater]

No, it's silly. It's a choice, but it's a silly choice.

And vegan food is indeed pretty awful. I've had loads of vegetarian food, and have vegetarian friends who are good cooks. I could eat good vegetarian food indefinitely. You'd be lucky to enjoy 1 in 100 vegan dishes that vegans themselves think are great.

[Betonov]

Vegan food can be quite good, but prepare to fork out some coins. I remember when I was at a friends apartment once and his girlfrend was vegan and she made this salad that was excellent, but getting good red redish is quite a feat if its not spring/summer. And two hours later we went for a kebab :)

[GoldenRivet]

I agree with Platapus that it is NOT silly.

I agree with Tater that 1 in 100 vegan meals will be enjoyed by a non vegan.

:salute:

[DarkFish]

I agree it's a silly choice. Humans are omnivores. If we were destined to eat only plants, we'd been born as cows.
Meat contains loads of important nutrients. It's just weird to do things the hard way with special foods and dietary supplements etc. instead of simply eating some meat, eggs and dairy products.

It is a choice, yes. And everyone should be allowed to make that choice. But scientifically it's a weird choice.

[Betonov]

Well, every woman puts a piece of meat into her mouth at least once in a lifetime, vegan or not

[GoldenRivet]

Well, every woman puts a piece of meat into her mouth at least once in a lifetime, vegan or not

different kind of meat... and yes you're right... usually once. LOL

[Sailor Steve]

Ocassionally I enjoy a salad with tomatoes, carrots and mushrooms. And ocassionally I enjoy a salad with tomatoes, carrots, mushrooms, eggs, ham, turkey, cheese and sometimes bacon.

I also like lettuce and tomato on my cheeseburgers.

Lettuce and tomato on steak? Not so much. Mushrooms, yeah.




Veggies: What food eats. :D

[GoldenRivet]

Veggies: What food eats. :D

I'm going to go ahead and steal that right now:yeah:

[Sailor Steve]

I'm going to go ahead and steal that right now:yeah:
Be my guest. I saw it on a bumper sticker. Also "I didn't claw my way to top of the food chain so I could eat veggies!"

[papa_smurf]

Just cook a Bacon butty the next time shes over - that will turn her form Veganism:D

[ERPP8]

Vegetarianism is dumb,
The animals are ALREADY dead, you eating or not eating meat only keeps it on the shelf for maybe another hour.
Veganism is a new level of dumb,
milking an animal is not harmful or bad. That's like saying breastfeeding hurts the mother, it's actually harmful to NOT milk a cow enough.
Naturally, animals die, it's normal. Humans have become predators and there are other predators in the world. If you want to complain about animals dying, watch The Lion King, or go yell at all the other predators like wolfs, and cheetahs.
Meat tastes good, it's good for your health and it's natural.

[tater]

I love a good salad, but "raw" foods mean that opportunities to "cook" anything the least bit complex are rare (since they don't cook anything).

BTW, I think getting 1 in 100 vegan meals to even taste "decent" would be optimistic.

Vegetarian meals, OTOH, are an entirely different story.

[Betonov]

I love a good salad, but "raw" foods mean that opportunities to "cook" anything the least bit complex are rare (since they don't cook anything).


That you're right. I can never stand any vegetables that have been exposed to heat in any way except maybe light steaming. I love a good salad with some tomatoes, fresh lettuce, olives, spring onions and red redish.... but once you boil them it looks and tastes like something you took from a compost

And about the: it's a choice. Yes it is, no one has the right to tell them they shouldnt do it. But it works both ways and the vegans are outright abnoxius about trying to impose their views on us carnivores

[ETR3(SS)]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/images/bigpot6.jpg

[tater]

I cook veggies almost exclusively with dry heat. Roasting does wonders. Drives off water, heats, and concentrates flavors.

Perhaps tossed with olive oil, and some salt. Simple, and good.

I guarantee my roasted broccoli is better tasting than ANY vegan broccoli preparation on earth (which apparently would be serving it raw with maybe something else raw on top).

Vegan spices? Lesse, they don't cook anything—vegans eat RAW food, right? Most spices require cooking to release flavors. Many Indian spices, for example actually taste BAD when un cooked. A few seconds in hot oil... awesome.

Veganism is crazy, IMO. I've never met a vegan who wasn't more than a little nutty. It's their CHOICE, but it is none the less true that virtually all I've met are kooks. BTW, how many strict carnivores have you met? Think they'd be nuts, too? How about people that only eat meat, and only eat it RAW. That would be the meat-eating version of a vegan. If the one idea is insane, so is the other.

[tater]

My bad, not all vegan do the only raw food thing.

So those that cook (the majority) are not entirely crazy. Still, the number that can actually cook well are few and far between.

We went to a dinner with Anthony Bourdain (Kitchen Confidential, Cook's Tour, etc) and after his talk he went around the room and sat at each table for a while (was not a huge gathering) and chatted. My wife asked him what the worst meal he'd ever had was. For TV shows he'd eaten some horrible stuff that makes you sick to think about. His answer? A vegan pot-luck in Berkeley. Worst meal on earth, and they knew they were serving a chef who disdains vegetarian food, so they did their very best to convert him.

[the_tyrant]

there is actually good vegetarian food
stuff like this:
http://hiphotos.baidu.com/gylf6212/pic/item/5eee0126f5392e2e8b82a122.jpg
http://images.sbar.com.cn/2008/01/29/1_2008012901412631.jpg

with modern advance in chemistry it is completely possible to create "meat" out of materials derived from plants (like protean powder)

[Takeda Shingen]

I enjoy being a vegetarian; the diet does yield numerous health benefits, not the least of which has been my very healthy weight. You can cook all kinds of things that will make a vegan fat, and if someone is doing it, they might as well just eat the meat, because the effects on their body will be the same.

And no, I don't think that it is dumb. I regularly prepare and serve meat dishes for my guests if I know that they prefer it. I am not offended by having meat-based entrees waved under my nose, nor by the posting of cheeseburgers and what-not on the internet. I do find the objections of those that decry what I choose and do not choose to put in my body to be somewhat amusing, as I do not care if you choose to eat bacon three meals a day.

EDIT: Of course, all that being said, I also like Bourbon, Scotch and cigars (although I do not smoke them in the house now that I have children), so I suppose that we all pick our poison.

[Skybird]

veganism is silly.

cows make milk all by them selves

chickens lay eggs just for fun



We have made them to do. Naturally they wouldn't. ;)

Anyhow, I am not Vegan, and never were, I was Vegetarian for ten years some longer time ago. Back then it was okay to not have meat or fish, but cheese, eggs and milk I ate.

If that lady's vegan food does not taste, then she simply doe snot know how to cook well. My Mom can cook with Tofu and wheat and grain, and she can do it very excellently, producing copies of meat by using grians only that are as delicious as the real thing.

But one needs to have a lot of background knowedge about food and nurtirtion, else it backfires oin your health - you can make a lot wrong there. It is also more expensive, and it takes you much more time in the kitchen.

I personally came to realise that occasionally I like to have some meat or fishg. But I do not have it even just once per week, but only maybe 2 or 3 times per month. I consume a lot of grains instead, Tofu, pasta, and milk, eggs, butter, cheese etc. So I am no Vegetarian anymore, but a very low rate consumer of meat.

What I run away from in panic, yelling, is Sushi. Cold, glibbery, often salty. Brrrr. My trainer and personal mentor was Japanese, and quite traditional a bit. I did not make him happy with that dislike of mine. :)

[Platapus]

I gave up beef about a year ago. My doctor is very happy. My LDL went from 200+ to 64 at my last exam.

One thing that is weird about beef is that if you stop eating it for a while, if you ever do, it tastes kinda funny and not in a good way.

I don't care the hell what other people eat so long as they enjoy it. I can't stand sad eaters and sad drinkers

That's my philosophy.

Anyone know where that quote came from? I bet Sailor Steve knows. ;)

No pressure there Steve. :D

[Schroeder]

Vegetarianism is dumb,
The animals are ALREADY dead, you eating or not eating meat only keeps it on the shelf for maybe another hour.

Why are the animals already dead?
Because there is a demand for meat.
Would they raise and slaughter animals if there was no demand?
Certainly not.
How do you reduce demand?
By becoming vegetarian.

That is probably the most basic rule of the market: no demand = no offer, or at least no offer that will remain for long. The shelves would be bare of meat within weeks if no one would buy it. So to say turning vegetarian is dumb because the meat is there is, well...;)

[Takeda Shingen]

I gave up beef about a year ago. My doctor is very happy. My LDL went from 200+ to 64 at my last exam.

Congratulations! That's quite a drop.

[STEED]

For every person turns vegan the poor Americans have to eat more meat. ;)

[mookiemookie]

Much like Tak, What diet someone else chooses to follow doesn't bother me in the least. I don't feel the need to critique it or pass judgement on it. I should really try cutting back on the meat....I've started limiting my red meat intake and replacing it as much as possible with white meat chicken or turkey.

That being said, I did get a kick out of this:

http://verydemotivational.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/demotivational-posters-vegans.jpg

[GoldenRivet]

All i can say, personally speaking... i have finally perfected my steak grilling as of about 6 years ago.

I have specific spices, seasonings and sauces etc that i use exclusively to create my steak and i take a lot of pride in getting it right.

I grill it with a diamond pattern when i have the time, and i try to make it look as pleasing to the eye as it is to the taste.

grilling a steak is one of my favorite past times... i love standing by that grill with a cold beer in my hand listening to that sizzle and hiss while engaged in good conversation with my wife or a good friend.

the only thing better is sitting at the table with friends and family and enjoying - and watching them enjoy - a tender, juicy steak.

any man ought to be able to tell you - grilling a steak is a matter of pride, its an art form all its own, and your recipe is something you dont easily share with anyone.

i like vegetables, dont get me wrong.

but there is a HUGE difference between a vegetarian and a vegan.

i can eat salad

i cannot eat vegan - everything they cook is just an amalgamation of stuff that aint supposed to mix and when it comes out of the oven they call it lasagna. :haha:

but brother, i have had lasagna... but that soupy, flavorless, odorless concoction is NOT lasagna. know what i mean?

when i enjoy a good meal i do so with all my senses... i hear it cooking, i smell it cooking, i sense the change in odor as you add various ingredients, i see what it looks like on the plate, whether or not it LOOKS appetizing, i judge every aspect and dissect every flavor... im the type of food oriented person who wants to feel like the sight, scent and taste of my food is making love to my senses:D

and if that were the case... vegan food... is just a lousy partner.:har:

[Madox58]

Well, as more people go veggy?
The cost of a steak should drop for me!
Happy Times!
:rock:
Actually? We raise our own Beef so cost is not much of a factor.
They are natural fed with no injections and such.
We have 3 right now. Named Breakfest, Lunch, and Dinner!
:haha:
At 53 (in a few days) I STILL can wear the same sizes I did in 1976!
160 LBS at 5' 10"
I also out work most of the Guys younger then me by a long shot.
(I can still lift a 350 Chevy engine into the back of a Pickup by myself)

I believe it's not what you eat, it's your life style that matters.
If your on your butt all day?
You ain't burning off the stuff you consume.

My rule is:
If it don't eat me first?
It's most likely a meal.
:yep:

[gimpy117]

I do agree that meats, especially beef can be very unhealthy though. I work in a Meat dept. I know these things.

I think the main issue is overating. Some steaks can have 2 or 3 servings a piece, and familes will often buy 3 Lbs of ground beef a person. thats nearly quadruple the serving of a typical 1/4 pound burger.

[Blood_splat]

I just couldn't work a 10 or 12 hour day and sit down to a vegan meal.

[GoldenRivet]

I do agree that meats, especially beef can be very unhealthy though. I work in a Meat dept. I know these things.

I think the main issue is overating. Some steaks can have 2 or 3 servings a piece, and familes will often buy 3 Lbs of ground beef a person. thats nearly quadruple the serving of a typical 1/4 pound burger.

the key is to buy a cut of steak slightly larger than your fist.

special occasions call for larger though:up:

[joegrundman]

grilling a steak is one of my favorite past times... i love standing by that grill with a cold beer in my hand listening to that sizzle and hiss while engaged in good conversation with my wife or a good friend.


when i cook steak there isn't time for a conversation. 60 secs per side maximum

[kiwi_2005]

I'm here to tell you, either she cannot cook, or veganism is the most bland, tasteless, unexciting lifestyle where food is concerned.




Same here friend of mine is a vegan and a save the planet freak I'll admit she can cook up anything vegan and make it look good on the plate but tastes bloody terrible. Even her cats are vegans. :har:. No im serious she trained them to eat veges. That's all she feeds them is this cooked up vege stew.

Never forget the time having a few drinks she got rotten drunk and we caught her pigging out on mutton chops :haha:

[Penguin]

Vegetarianism is dumb,
The animals are ALREADY dead, you eating or not eating meat only keeps it on the shelf for maybe another hour.
Veganism is a new level of dumb,
milking an animal is not harmful or bad. That's like saying breastfeeding hurts the mother, it's actually harmful to NOT milk a cow enough.
Naturally, animals die, it's normal. Humans have become predators and there are other predators in the world. If you want to complain about animals dying, watch The Lion King, or go yell at all the other predators like wolfs, and cheetahs.
Meat tastes good, it's good for your health and it's natural.

Thank you for your deep and profound insight.
I will start eating meat again, you really have convinced me!
It is good how much biological wisdom we can learn from Disney cartoons and I must admit that I am a bit jealous of the education system of the country where you reside.
When I am big, I want to be as smart as you!

[Madox58]

Nearly all Beef sold in the U.S.A. at Super Markets and such have been
injected or force fed to achive a certain fat content.
They call it marbleing.
The Beef we raise is natural fed and it hardly leaves any fat in a skillet!
The 3 growing now have more land to graze on then I own at home.
And thier own pond is bigger then the lot my Home is on!
When Halloween is over?
We gather pumpkins from people and feed them that also.
They produce very lean Meat.
Much like Elk do.
If the Cattle Industry would stop the crap they do to inflate prices and produce healthy Beef?

[GoldenRivet]

when i cook steak there isn't time for a conversation. 60 secs per side maximum

for me it is a low flame, about 2.5 minutes per side. it gives it a nice diamond char if you flip them and rotate them right.

i can tell if it is about cooked through by looking, at which point i cut into it to check as some folks can be particular.

i prefer mine medium to medium rare, exterior should appear moist and glistening with the fat on.

[Penguin]

If the Cattle Industry would stop the crap they do to inflate prices and produce healthy Beef?

Don't you think they do the crap feeding to keep (their) costs down? I think the way the industry raises cattle is way more cheaper than the way you do it.
I can't say anything against the way you handle it. In fact I wish more people would do it this way.
Most people who buy their meat solely at the supermarket just have no relationship to the way meat is produced.
I don't want to preach anyone what to eat, but if you are not able kill an animal by yourself (at least theoretically) then someone has no right to eat it.
I don't slaughter the little tofus by myself, but I could do it. Same goes for animals: I could do it, but I have no need!

still my favourite saying: "I am no vegetarian because I love animals, I just hate plants!" :03:

[Madox58]

At what price does anyone risking Human health to save costs?
Remember Mad Cow problems?
That pretty much ended the Cattle Industry from useing Cattle to feed Cattle.
Would it raise costs to feed them naturally?
Maybe just a little.
But I kind of doubt that haveing travelled through Cattle country in the U.S.A.
Hit Texas once where you see Cattle but not a single Barn or such for Miles!

[Schroeder]

At what price does anyone risking Human health to save costs?
Remember Mad Cow problems?
That pretty much ended the Cattle Industry from useing Cattle to feed Cattle.
Would it raise costs to feed them naturally?
Maybe just a little.
But I kind of doubt that haveing travelled through Cattle country in the U.S.A.
Hit Texas once where you see Cattle but not a single Barn or such for Miles!
That might work where you live. Over here the cattle is usually kept in stables. Not much space for them to move and they usually get fed with industrial fodder (Dioxin scandal anyone...(for those who don't know we just have a scandal here in Germany where one company mixed fats for industrial means with fats for fodder production, causing it to be contaminated with dioxin)).
As a side effect injections with antibiotics are of course the norm under this conditions.:roll:

[ERPP8]

Why are the animals already dead?
Because there is a demand for meat.
Would they raise and slaughter animals if there was no demand?
Certainly not.
How do you reduce demand?
By becoming vegetarian.

That is probably the most basic rule of the market: no demand = no offer, or at least no offer that will remain for long. The shelves would be bare of meat within weeks if no one would buy it. So to say turning vegetarian is dumb because the meat is there is, well...;)
You're mixing micro and macro economics, it's JUST YOU as a vegan, the meat producers won't say "Oh god, Schroeder isn't eating meat, we need to reduce our production"

[ERPP8]

Thank you for your deep and profound insight.
I will start eating meat again, you really have convinced me!
It is good how much biological wisdom we can learn from Disney cartoons and I must admit that I am a bit jealous of the education system of the country where you reside.
When I am big, I want to be as smart as you!
People just refuse to think things out

[mookiemookie]

You're mixing micro and macro economics, it's JUST YOU as a vegan, the meat producers won't say "Oh god, Schroeder isn't eating meat, we need to reduce our production"

That's not the point. The first step to anything begins with one person.

[Skybird]

That might work where you live. Over here the cattle is usually kept in stables. Not much space for them to move and they usually get fed with industrial fodder (Dioxin scandal anyone...(for those who don't know we just have a scandal here in Germany where one company mixed fats for industrial means with fats for fodder production, causing it to be contaminated with dioxin)).
As a side effect injections with antibiotics are of course the norm under this conditions.:roll:
The antibiotics used in lifestock farming, especially pigs and chicken, is a problem, yes. It helps to make bacterias immune to antibiotics - and that has become a very threatening problem indeed, every doctor knows now. We find that stuff and many other medical drugs even in our drink water supplies now.

The dioxine scandal, you must not be too concerned about it, Schroeder. Dioxine is a natural substance that is included in almost everything we eat, in salad, grain, vegetables, meat, eggs. It is being produced wherever you have oxidation and burning processes. You cannot avoid it. It is the dose that makes the poison, and the one must know that most limit values for food are not so much medical ones, but political and economic ones, they represen t what technically can be acchieved in reduction and what economically is desirable. Maybe you know Udo Pollmer, a nutrition chemists quite prominent in Germany, I know two of his books. He points out that the limit values for dioxone in food make little sense and follow the tehcnical criterion I described. The limit value for fish for example is higher than for eggs. If you eat eggs with the dioxione they now measured, you eat still less dioxone, than if you eat a nrmal portion of fish. In case of the egg, it is not considered a problem, but when eating fish, nobody cares, although he eats even more dioxin!

The case has to be examined and finally the responsible ones being punished (I mean really punished) becasue legal rules have been broken, and obviously the indistry works with lots of criminal energy to lie and betray the consumer. But our wonderful consumer protection ministry will, a susual, do its best to prevent the conusmer being protecte din the future, and to hide the structures of the business to ensure its profits. :shifty:

Fire safety measures are for protecting against fires, and consumer safety is to protect against consumers. That's what this ministry usually does. Burning their ministry down would not be a loss for anone, but it would save taxes and future pensions.

[gimpy117]

Nearly all Beef sold in the U.S.A. at Super Markets and such have been
injected or force fed to achive a certain fat content.
They call it marbleing.
The Beef we raise is natural fed and it hardly leaves any fat in a skillet!
The 3 growing now have more land to graze on then I own at home.
And thier own pond is bigger then the lot my Home is on!
When Halloween is over?
We gather pumpkins from people and feed them that also.
They produce very lean Meat.
Much like Elk do.
If the Cattle Industry would stop the crap they do to inflate prices and produce healthy Beef?

you are correct. they are corn fed. The more expensive cuts are surprisingly worse for you. a USDA prime cut will be a calorie bomb, where a USDA inspected will be quite lean. I work at a store called Olesons. A small chain of 5 stores. We grow very very lean buffalo as well. Ground buffalo is 95% lean or so.

[mookiemookie]

The more expensive cuts are surprisingly worse for you.

No surprise there. Worse for you = more marbled fat = more flavor = higher price. ;)

[Takeda Shingen]

Nearly all Beef sold in the U.S.A. at Super Markets and such have been
injected or force fed to achive a certain fat content.
They call it marbleing.
The Beef we raise is natural fed and it hardly leaves any fat in a skillet!
The 3 growing now have more land to graze on then I own at home.
And thier own pond is bigger then the lot my Home is on!
When Halloween is over?
We gather pumpkins from people and feed them that also.
They produce very lean Meat.
Much like Elk do.
If the Cattle Industry would stop the crap they do to inflate prices and produce healthy Beef?

What you described from the beef industry is a major reason that I stopped eating meat. Today's beef is not the same beef that our fathers and grandfathers ate. Pork and chicken suffer from the same problem. Anymore, unless you grow the animals like you do, it is very difficult to find good, safe meat.

[antikristuseke]

I just couldn't work a 10 or 12 hour day and sit down to a vegan meal.


Same here, but make that 12-24 hour days. But to each their own.

[the_tyrant]

why is everyone so caloriephobic?
this very moment i'm stuffing chocolate into my mouth:
http://lh3.ggpht.com/_JtwOU3H9KQM/TTJMq7KNyQI/AAAAAAAAAX4/mJgcHNTE3Rw/Snapshot_20110115.jpg

[antikristuseke]

I'm not, my daily food consumption averages to arround 4000 calories a day, double that during a 24 hour shift.

[Madox58]

How many calories in a Big Mac, a double quarter pounder with cheese, large fries and a large soda?
(That's just lunch mind you)

[the_tyrant]

How many calories in a Big Mac, a double quarter pounder with cheese, large fries and a large soda?
(That's just lunch mind you)

thats pretty much my lunch, but add around 200 grams of chocolate truffles:03:

[DarkFish]

why is everyone so caloriephobic?Personally I'm just, like, food phobic:DL Food takes time to prepare, time to eat and even more time if you want it to taste good, and also money to buy. So quite often I simply don't eat until dinner. I just don't get very hungry, and if I do I can ignore it pretty well. I know it isn't very healthy, but well... who cares?:DL

I'm not, my daily food consumption averages to arround 4000 calories a day, double that during a 24 hour shift.And still you're as thin as a sheet of paper:o

As you could've guessed from what I said above, my calorie intakes are probably below the recommended 2000 (even with beer added) and I've still got a bit of a belly (beer belly most likely:D). Not that I'm fat, most definitely not, but I'm not extraordinarily slim either.

[Madox58]

:DL
I also have at lest 4 Snickers bars of the King size version each day.
I just saw that those are rated 500+ calories each.
So I pretty much hit nearly 4000 calories not counting breakfest and dinner.
I won't go into the Beer calories.
:haha:

[antikristuseke]

And still you're as thin as a sheet of paper:o



Yeah, but my body is basically just muscle and bone, there is no real fat tissue to speak of so I'm not too light. Also I do trade a lot of sleep for extra food due to my job, long hours and irregular sleep patern, need energy to keep going. Right now im going to start a 24 hour shift in 3 hours and I have been awake for about 6. before i get sleep i'll have been awake for about 34 hours and even then its only going to be 5 hours of sleep and back to work for anotehr 12.

That being said I also have a quite active lifestyle, i move around a lot. I dont run anymore, but walk a lot and even when siting i cant be still, allways am twisting a pencil between my fingers or something like that.

[Madox58]

I feel you on the sleep issue.
I rarely sleep more then 5 hours each nite.
Been that way since I was in the Army for some reason.
:hmmm:
And that was 20+ years ago!

I put it down to the Alien Grays messing with me every nite.
:har:

[nikimcbee]

I would tag it as a religion. I didn't know there were vegans in Texas?:haha:

[Madox58]

They were at Waco as I recall?
:haha:

[jumpy]

Yeah, but my body is basically just muscle and bone, there is no real fat tissue to speak of so I'm not too light. Also I do trade a lot of sleep for extra food due to my job, long hours and irregular sleep patern, need energy to keep going. Right now im going to start a 24 hour shift in 3 hours and I have been awake for about 6. before i get sleep i'll have been awake for about 34 hours and even then its only going to be 5 hours of sleep and back to work for anotehr 12.

That being said I also have a quite active lifestyle, i move around a lot. I dont run anymore, but walk a lot and even when siting i cant be still, allways am twisting a pencil between my fingers or something like that.

What the hell do you do that needs you to be awake for that long? :o
Hopefully it's not anything that requires you to either a) drive b) operate machinery c) have anything that needs more than a half hour of concentration at a time d) be responsible for the safety of others working around you.

I've spent plenty of time in the past with, shall we say, extended patterns of waking and sleeping. When staying awake for more than 24 hours at a time followed by a sleep period of less than 8 hours and repeating, auditory and visual hallucinations and lapses of judgement are always very close by, plus I experience a very short temper and a marked decrease in ability to think clearly and to complete complex tasks.
Shift work with those kind of patterns can be done by sheer willpower alone, but it messes your health up long term; your body and brain have evolved to a day/night cycle for a very good reason. It's another reason sleep deprivation is used to break people down.
I'd be quite concerned with that kind of pressure, unless you're getting amphetamines or something... Not having a dig at you, fella, but that kind of sleep pattern is really not good for you.

[Madox58]

Sleep patterns are as different as they come.
What works for some does not work for others.
That fact may have caused the survival of Humans as a species.
One factor that will remove a person from special forces training?
The ability to deal with limited amounts of sleep and still function at a very high level.
If you think that fact is bunk?
I invite you to go through some of that training.

[Sailor Steve]

why is everyone so caloriephobic?
this very moment i'm stuffing chocolate into my mouth:
thats pretty much my lunch, but add around 200 grams of chocolate truffles:03:
You're young. For most of us (not all, but most) after you hit a certain age your metabolism slows down and your weight becomes much harder to manage.

[antikristuseke]

What the hell do you do that needs you to be awake for that long? :o
Hopefully it's not anything that requires you to either a) drive b) operate machinery c) have anything that needs more than a half hour of concentration at a time d) be responsible for the safety of others working around you.

I've spent plenty of time in the past with, shall we say, extended patterns of waking and sleeping. When staying awake for more than 24 hours at a time followed by a sleep period of less than 8 hours and repeating, auditory and visual hallucinations and lapses of judgement are always very close by, plus I experience a very short temper and a marked decrease in ability to think clearly and to complete complex tasks.
Shift work with those kind of patterns can be done by sheer willpower alone, but it messes your health up long term; your body and brain have evolved to a day/night cycle for a very good reason. It's another reason sleep deprivation is used to break people down.
I'd be quite concerned with that kind of pressure, unless you're getting amphetamines or something... Not having a dig at you, fella, but that kind of sleep pattern is really not good for you.

I work as a security guard at a natural sciences building of a university. By the end of about 30 hours of no sleep my mental capacity has indeed diminished, but not to a high degree, like say I were to take a test at the beginning of my shift and then take the same test at the end I usually do about 3 or 4 points worse on the later test. Add on another 18 hours and the score usually drops by about 15 points and after that it goes down hill quite rapidly. I haven't gotten hallucinations before about 70 hours of wake time.
Before this I served as a recon infantryman, not quite special forces, but as close to one gets while doing their national service here. At one point during basic they had us take an iq test after we had finished a 24km patrol in a swamp after spending 16 hours watching an intersection for "enemy" movement. While it was not something you could consider a proper IQ test, i scored 141 like i had under conditions with no fatigue.

[jumpy]

^^
hehe, well I hope they pay you a ****load for those hours :) :yawn:

[razark]

I just happen to like vegetables. Probably my dad's fault. He turned about half the back yard into a garden when I was growing up, and I spent my childhood eating vegetables all the time. Even now, my children will fight over who gets the last brussel sprout.

I've found, however, that I cannot stand canned veggies. I'll eat almost anything raw, steamed, roasted, etc. But if it comes out of a can, it's already ruined.

As much as I love veggies, though, I still find vegans or vegetarians odd. If that's what they want to eat, fine. But expecting everyone to eat it is going a bit too far. (I do have a friend who won't eat any vegetables except for potatoes and tomatoes. I find him just as odd as vegetarians, too.)

[antikristuseke]

^^
hehe, well I hope they pay you a ****load for those hours :) :yawn:

They don't. I make a bit less than 2 euros per hour.

[gimpy117]

No surprise there. Worse for you = more marbled fat = more flavor = higher price. ;)

oh yes very much so.

[Schroeder]

You're mixing micro and macro economics, it's JUST YOU as a vegan, the meat producers won't say "Oh god, Schroeder isn't eating meat, we need to reduce our production"


First of all I'm neither a vegan nor a complete vegetarian.;)
Nothing will change just because I stop eating meat. But if I stop and the guy next door stops and his grandmother stops etc the demand for meat is lowered and that means less production of meat since there are no buyers for the original quantity (unless some strange subsidies laws allow you to get tons of money for burning your cattle after slaughtering it...:roll:) .
You could just as well say voting is dumb because your single vote won't change anything. But if the guy next door votes for the same party and his grandmother votes and.... then you might change something.

@Skybird
I'm not concerned about the dioxin. It's just the way how it could get into the fodder that is disgusting.

[Skybird]

Schroeder,

this ones for you. I simply enjoy to just listen to the man, no matter what he talks about. :DL It's about dioxine again.



http://www.achgut.tv/20110113509/

[Ducimus]

I just want to say, it is fun eating a big juicy medium rare steak or prime rib in front of a vegetarian. :O: The look of disgust and horror is priceless! :haha:

There's a reason why we have incisors. :shifty:

[Growler]

What you eat is important, but not so much so as what you do. You can be vegan and sit on your butt all day and still weigh what a bus does. Conversely, you can suck down high fat, high calorie meals and be thin as a rail if you're working your tail off in high-energy work.

Lifestyle beyond the table matters in diet as much as what's on the table.

[Platapus]

I just want to say, it is fun eating a big juicy medium rare steak or prime rib in front of a vegetarian. :O: The look of disgust and horror is priceless! :haha:

There's a reason why we have incisors. :shifty:

Then you have not eaten in front of too many vegetarians.

Most vegetarians (and I hang out with a butt load of them) really don't care what other people eat, and they find it amusing when people try to "shock" them.

Now there are vegetarians who are insecure in their beliefs or try to influence others, but like in most instances in life, you can't judge the whole by the few.

By trying to "shock" them, you are no better than those annoying vegetarians who try to influence others.

I was a vegetarian for about 7 years and I never cared what other people were eating. It was my way of life and as such was not influenced by how others live.

A pretty good philosophy that many could learn from.

[Ducimus]

Then you have not eaten in front of too many vegetarians.


Your right, I haven't. I knew of one. He was my best friend at the time. I didn't know he was a vegetarian until i ate a bloody steak in front of him, and he was, "Dude! Really?!". I guess he just assumed i knew, which i didn't (everyone else did apparently). Once he told me, then everything (and all that damn top ramen he ate) suddenly made sense.

[Growler]

... (and all that damn top ramen he ate) suddenly made sense.

Top ramen is NOT food, nor does eating it make sense. Anywhere. At any time. Even college.:D

[Platapus]

Oh, I know this woman who is one of those pain in the butt Vegetarians. All she eats is pasta. She is so sickly looking and actually sickly.

She is a prime example of not only a pain in the butt/in your face vegetarian that everyone hates (even vegetarians) but she is an example that not all vegetarians really understand a vegetarian diet.

There is something about vegetables that she does not understand about her diet.

[antikristuseke]

I do consider myself to be a second level vegetarian, i eat all animals that don't eat meat.

[Penguin]

I do consider myself to be a second level vegetarian, i eat all animals that don't eat meat.
:DL
but this limits your choices... many fish are predators, most birds love an occasional worm, pigs are often fed with the remains of meals (including meat)
so basically you can only eat cows and brontosaurus!

[antikristuseke]

I said I concider myself to be one, not that i actually am :D

[Penguin]

Back to the OP's post:

I have often experienced the same. There are basically two reasons for a lack of taste - except for a lack of cooking skills:
- many vegans do not use much spices, somehow they want the food to taste naturally - in other words often bland
- fat, or the lack of: fat is an important "taste carrier", no fat= less taste
if you eat french fries with ketchup, you also have a vegan meal. fries taste good cause they are prepared in oil = fat


If you need a high calory/protein intake, a balanced diet can also provide this, but given you have to consider more stuff than being on a carnivore/vegetarian diet. If anyone's interested (which I doubt ;)) you can check out veganbodybuilding.com good forum, interesting links. These guys try to prevent additional nutrition supplements - except for protein shakes or stuff like that.


<-- no vegan, but vegetarian

[Schroeder]

@Skybird
Thanks, very interesting.:DL

[Skybird]

To see the possibility that the dioxine scandal is being blown up in order to damage not conventional but alternative agriculture - one really has to imagine that! There you are , reading all those idealistic comments and all those clever experts, and you feel oh so very well informed - but in fact we maybe are the best desinformed public ever!

[gimpy117]

well personally I think both sides are a bit in the wrong when it comes to the debate over eating meat near a vegetarian. They ask not to be judged for their dietary choice, but in turn, i think they should be considerate of other people who eat meat. If you want a bloody steak, it should be your right to be able to eat one near a vegetarian.

acceptance is not a one way street where the majority has to accept one side, yet the minority can act however they want to the majority viewpoint.

[Penguin]

well personally I think both sides are a bit in the wrong when it comes to the debate over eating meat near a vegetarian. They ask not to be judged for their dietary choice, but in turn, i think they should be considerate of other people who eat meat. If you want a bloody steak, it should be your right to be able to eat one near a vegetarian.

acceptance is not a one way street where the majority has to accept one side, yet the minority can act however they want to the majority viewpoint.

I wonder where you get this impression of preaching vegetarians from, other than from some stupid talkshows that want to polarize, or some weak-ass hippies protesting outside a McDonald's.

I have been eating among tons of different people, especially when I was working more 'on the road', where you eat together with people you just met on a daily basis.
I have never seen a vegetarian preaching at lunch or seperating himself from the carnivores. I have sometimes noticed some ****ing around from the meat eaters - however mostly on a friendly (and sometimes funny) basis, like the maddox cartoon.

What I have often experienced is the question:"Why don't you eat meat?", which can become annoying when you hear it for the 800th time. Smalltalk is ok, but there are tons of other (and more interesting) topics. Depending on my mood I explain it, or answer "because my Führer, Adolf Hitler, also was a vegetarian :stare:!"

[clive bradbury]

An interesting thread. One theme that seems to be developing is that many vegetarian options can only taste good if they are well prepared and cooked. Well, I don't know about any of you, but I find that exactly the same applies to meat!

Someone many posts back said that they had given up beef, and that if they had it since it tastes a bit weird. I agree, I gave up red meat during the BSE crisis some years back. I stuck with it because (1) generally it is reasonably healthy not to be eating too much meat, especially red, and (2) because I simply don't miss it.

The other poster is absolutely right - on the few occasions I have had red meat since it DOES taste a little strange, and certainly has never induced me to return to eating it.

[NeonSamurai]

There's a reason why we have incisors. :shifty:

Ummm... your not serious right? Most grazing animals have large incisor teeth for clipping grass or leaves. Perhaps you meant canines, but then again I can point to several species which have massive canines and are herbivores (like the gorilla and panda).

Actually human mouths are not very well suited to a meat diet, particularly if you remove technology (and cooking things) from the picture. Technically we are opportunistic scavengers (who have a taste for almost rotting flesh, hence our penchant for "aging" meat), and with out our technology, we are a prey species, not predators as we like to think.

Also we are very badly suited for a high protein diet. Protein puts a lot of strain on the body to digest, as it leaves toxic chemicals when burned as fuel by our bodies, and puts our immune system into overdrive (as all incoming proteins have to be examined by our immune system). Plus it is well known to cause lethargy.


Anyhow on topic. Vegan food can be perfectly tasty, many of the vegetarian dishes I make qualify as vegan as well, and are very popular with the guests I have. But as is often the case most people simply can't cook worth a damn (and that goes for non veg people as well). I can't count the number of god awful things I have watched people make and eat, which I would consider utter slop. In fact as a former professional chef, the vast majority of the public does not have a clue how to cook anything of any quality.


Anyhow as for steak, this is what is considered the correct way to cook steak. You sear it on each side at maximum heat (if grilling, this will create the first sear mark on each side) to seal it off. If it's served blue, you are done after this. Otherwise it goes to medium/low flame to cook (this is where you get the seared diamond mark). Doneness is checked by touch (pro's never check by cutting), with the meat becoming more resistant to poking as it cooks. An old rule of thumb for knowing this I was taught was to touch your thumb to each finger on your hand and feel the muscle between your thumb and index finger, index is rare, pinky is well done.

Also, seasonings, particularly salt are never added to raw meat, herbs are added after cooking and spices towards the end (unless you like burned herbs and spices).

For those curious, I studied haute cuisine française (et pâtisseries) at the Cordon Bleu (high french cuisine and pastry), and worked professionally for about 5 years before I decided the pay in Canada for this kind of work was beyond bad (I use to make the same money as a pizza cook in a bar, as at an upscale french restaurant).