View Full Version : Global Nazi investigations rise for a second year
The number of ongoing investigations into Nazi war criminals increased last year, says a report by the Simon Wiesenthal Center (SWC).From April 2009 to March 2010 there were 852 investigations being conducted worldwide, compared with 706 during the same period in 2008/09.The SWC also awarded Germany an A-grade for its efforts to prosecute ex-Nazis.
This is the first time its top grade has been given to any country other than the United States.The period 2009/10 is the second consecutive year that the number of investigations into suspected Nazis has risen - there were 608 in 2007/08.According to Efraim Zuroff, head of the SWC's Jerusalem branch which investigates suspected WWII Nazi criminals, two cases were under investigation in Britain during 2009-10, but Scotland Yard has not yet confirmed this.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-12170461
Note: 13 January 2011 Last updated at 06:04 GMT
Freiwillige
01-13-11, 07:01 AM
There comes a time when one has to say alright enough. That time is now. :timeout:
Pretty soon they will be prosecuting members of the Hitler youth cause that's all that will be left!
They'll probably want to hunt down Hitler youth if they work enough for it, which some already do today..
Feuer Frei!
01-13-11, 07:37 AM
Most of these so-called people are in their 70's and 80's, if not older.
Old age and/or ill health will and has in the past slowed down if not cancelled out a trial all together.
On the one hand i absolutely believe in accountability for your actions, and ie these people should be held accountable for their involvement in these crimes against humanity.
HOWEVER, IF and i stress if these people actually end up being sentenced by the ruling courts, what then?
Jail? I am under the belief that jail is a institution that has one purpose in mind.
And that is rehabilitation!
It is generally considered that when sentencing a person to jail, that rehabilitation is first and foremost in the minds of the 'punishers'. Or is it?
So, sentencing a 80 year old to jail time, correct me if i'm wrong but, isn't that a little too late? For rehabilitation?
So, you investigate and investigate, and then finally there is a simple biological solution: they die.
Here is the report card in it's entirety, with the relevant scores and what they mean:
Category A: Highly Successful Investigation and Prosecution Program
Those countries, which have adopted a proactive stance on the issue, have taken all reasonable measures to identify the potential suspected Nazi war criminals in the country in order to maximize investigation and prosecution and have achieved notable results during the period under review.
Category B: Ongoing Investigation and Prosecution Program Which Has Achieved Practical Success
Those countries which have taken the necessary measures to enable the proper investigation and prosecution of Nazi war criminals and have registered at least one conviction and/or filed one indictment during the period under review.
Category C: Minimal Success That Could Have Been Greater, Additional Steps Urgently Required
Those countries which have failed to obtain any convictions or indictments during the period under review but have either advanced ongoing cases currently in litigation or have opened new investigations, which have serious potential for prosecution.
Category D: Insufficient and/or Unsuccessful Efforts
Those countries which have ostensibly made at least a minimal effort to investigate Nazi war criminals but which failed to achieve any practical results during the period under review. In many cases these countries have stopped or reduced their efforts to deal with this issue long before they could have and could achieve important results if they were to change their policy.
Category E: No known suspects
Those countries in which there are no known suspects and no practical steps have been taken to uncover new cases.
Category F-1: Failure in principle
Those countries which refuse in principle to investigate, let alone prosecute, suspected Nazi war criminals because of legal (statute of limitation) or ideological restrictions.
Category F-2: Failure in practice
Those countries in which there are no legal obstacles to the investigation and prosecution of suspected Nazi war criminals, but whose efforts (or lack thereof) have resulted in complete failure during the period under review, primarily due to the absence of political will to proceed and/or a lack of the requisite resources and/or expertise.
Category X: Failure to submit pertinent data
Those countries which did not respond to the questionnaire, but clearly did not take any action whatsoever to investigate suspected Nazi war criminals during the period under review.
---------------------------------
A: Germany, United States
B:, Serbia
C: Italy*, Poland*
D: Austria, Croatia*, Denmark, Great Britain, Netherlands
E: Argentina, Finland, Greece, Latvia*, Slovenia
F-1: Norway, Sweden, Syria
F-2: Australia, Canada, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Ukraine
X: Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, France, Luxemburg, New Zealand, Paraguay, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Uruguay
* tentative grade pending receipt of official statistics
Most of these so-called people are in their 70's and 80's, if not older.
Old age and/or ill health will and has in the past slowed down if not cancelled out a trial all together.
On the one hand i absolutely believe in accountability for your actions, and ie these people should be held accountable for their involvement in these crimes against humanity.
HOWEVER, IF and i stress if these people actually end up being sentenced by the ruling courts, what then?
Jail? I am under the belief that jail is a institution that has one purpose in mind.
And that is rehabilitation!
It is generally considered that when sentencing a person to jail, that rehabilitation is first and foremost in the minds of the 'punishers'. Or is it?
So, sentencing a 80 year old to jail time, correct me if i'm wrong but, isn't that a little too late? For rehabilitation?
So, you investigate and investigate, and then finally there is a simple biological solution: they die.
Here is the report card in it's entirety, with the relevant scores and what they mean:
Category A: Highly Successful Investigation and Prosecution Program
Those countries, which have adopted a proactive stance on the issue, have taken all reasonable measures to identify the potential suspected Nazi war criminals in the country in order to maximize investigation and prosecution and have achieved notable results during the period under review.
Category B: Ongoing Investigation and Prosecution Program Which Has Achieved Practical Success
Those countries which have taken the necessary measures to enable the proper investigation and prosecution of Nazi war criminals and have registered at least one conviction and/or filed one indictment during the period under review.
Category C: Minimal Success That Could Have Been Greater, Additional Steps Urgently Required
Those countries which have failed to obtain any convictions or indictments during the period under review but have either advanced ongoing cases currently in litigation or have opened new investigations, which have serious potential for prosecution.
Category D: Insufficient and/or Unsuccessful Efforts
Those countries which have ostensibly made at least a minimal effort to investigate Nazi war criminals but which failed to achieve any practical results during the period under review. In many cases these countries have stopped or reduced their efforts to deal with this issue long before they could have and could achieve important results if they were to change their policy.
Category E: No known suspects
Those countries in which there are no known suspects and no practical steps have been taken to uncover new cases.
Category F-1: Failure in principle
Those countries which refuse in principle to investigate, let alone prosecute, suspected Nazi war criminals because of legal (statute of limitation) or ideological restrictions.
Category F-2: Failure in practice
Those countries in which there are no legal obstacles to the investigation and prosecution of suspected Nazi war criminals, but whose efforts (or lack thereof) have resulted in complete failure during the period under review, primarily due to the absence of political will to proceed and/or a lack of the requisite resources and/or expertise.
Category X: Failure to submit pertinent data
Those countries which did not respond to the questionnaire, but clearly did not take any action whatsoever to investigate suspected Nazi war criminals during the period under review.
---------------------------------
A: Germany, United States
B:, Serbia
C: Italy*, Poland*
D: Austria, Croatia*, Denmark, Great Britain, Netherlands
E: Argentina, Finland, Greece, Latvia*, Slovenia
F-1: Norway, Sweden, Syria
F-2: Australia, Canada, Estonia, Hungary, Lithuania, Ukraine
X: Belarus, Belgium, Bolivia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Brazil, Chile, Colombia, Costa Rica, Czech Republic, France, Luxemburg, New Zealand, Paraguay, Romania, Russia, Slovakia, Spain, Uruguay
* tentative grade pending receipt of official statistics This content from this above list, where do you take the information source?. When the list contains some refractions in certain countries relative to the topic..
Feuer Frei!
01-13-11, 07:54 AM
This content from this above list, where do you take the information source?. When the list contains some refractions in certain countries relative to the topic..
Source is from the horse's mouth, so to speak:
http://www.wiesenthal.com/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=lsKWLbPJLnF&b=4441467&ct=8180041&printmode=1
No one unfamiliar site, but thanks for the up link
Penguin
01-13-11, 08:08 AM
The argument that the prosecuted persons are old now is void in my opinion. Their victims never had the chance to reach an old age.
Better late justice than never, this is btw one of the reasons that in german law murder never becomes time-barred (word?). For example the former Stasi-chief Erich Mielke got prosecuted in 1993 for the killing of two policemen in 1931.
Tribesman
01-13-11, 08:12 AM
There comes a time when one has to say alright enough. That time is now.
Is there a statue of limitations on those crimes?
If not then the time when one has to say "alright enough" is when the bastards are all dead and therefore beyond prosecution.
Pretty soon they will be prosecuting members of the Hitler youth cause that's all that will be left!
On what charges?
Jail? I am under the belief that jail is a institution that has one purpose in mind.
And that is rehabilitation!
Jail is part of penal system, rehabilitiation is only one purpose of that part of the penal system, it is certainly not the one purpose of the system.
Skybird
01-13-11, 08:14 AM
First, this:
Germany knew Eichmann's hiding place years before the Israelis caught him. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,738757,00.html)
Second:
there will be a census in Germany this May. The Nazi NPD party has called its members to volunteer as interviewers and use the opporutnity to additonally collect information about the migration background and political opinions of the people they interview (which do not get asked for by the opfficial census formulas). One is wondering why.
Third, political extremism in egneral is on the rise in Germany, and it seems to me in most of Europe. It may be a natural countermovement to the rise of social dysbalances in societies, as well as a countermovement to the EU tryin g to slowly neutralsiee regional cultural identities of nations and people and to deconstruct the sovereignity of states. Last year, we have seen a small decline of Nazi violence and crime in Germany, but an almost doubnling of left-extreme crime and violence (with right-winged crime still being in the close lead). For example some days ago the party 2Die Linke" (uniting SED-sympathisers and white-washers of the DDR tyranny, communists, radical socialists, and sympathisers of left terror and crime groups in Latin America) had a public discussion meeting in one place. Former political prisoners of the GDR regime, now all older people, wanted to demonstrate in front of the house to call the party back to reason and to remind them of the crimes of the DDR dictatorship and the in justrice they had suffered from its hands. They got beaten up by black-dressed thugs, two needed to go to hospital, one almost lost his eye-sight. The thugs then withdrew into the building and got covered by sympathiosers of Die Linke and party members, and actively hindred the police to enter the building and investigate on the attacker'S identity. This was reported in just two blog-like internet places, one of which co-run by Henryk Broder whom I hold in high appreciation, the regular media, print and TV, did not lose a single word about it.
Truth is a majority of people and politici8ans act and behave as if left violence does not exiost and can be whitewashed and "understood" and "justified", while all political violence just is always right violence. And Muslim violence and crime - officially does not even seem to exist, gets minimised and ignored all the time!
Skybird
01-13-11, 08:19 AM
The argument that the prosecuted persons are old now is void in my opinion. Their victims never had the chance to reach an old age.
Better late justice than never, this is btw one of the reasons that in german law murder never becomes time-barred (word?). For example the former Stasi-chief Erich Mielke got prosecuted in 1993 for the killing of two policemen in 1931.
While I cannot c onsider it to be justivce when a Nazi criminal has lived free for most of his life and the last 2 years of his life, maybe lives behind bars, I agree in principal - we owe it to the victims and to the scale of the Nazi disaster to prosecute those having actively particiapted in the crime for the full lifespan they have. Justice to me has little or nothing to do with it. The final one or two years of a crimnal'S 88 years oflife in prison - a compensation of some mass killing he participated in? Hardly.
But I think at some time, the generation behind these active criminals, we sooner or later - better sooner - need to let this kind of thing come to a historic stop,. and move on. It's not as if we do not have more present, urgent, urgent problems to solve in the world we wilve in right now.
A society that constantly lives with its mind in the past, has no future.
----
A short note on the rehabilitation thing Freiwillge has mentioned. While this is an ideal for European prisons, prisons also serve in the role of protecting the community against the evil-doers. Also, rehabilitation often fails or is not possible. Rehabilitation is something you define exclusively from the perspective of the community. If rehabilitation really were all what it is about, then I would recommend to enforce brain surgery and mandatory chemical supression of mind. Then you have the fully socialised and rehabilitated individual, from a communal standpoint. There is always a tensed balance link between rehabilitation, and conformism. I learned that the hard way when being in my training as psychologist and posyhcotherapist - the group pressure to make me (with my controversial and rebellious opinions, resisting against many psychotherapeutical holy cows) submitting to the wanted uniform ideal of the group and what a psycvhotherapist should be like, was immense and in the end aimed at just this: total conformity with the group's dogma and uniform ideal model.
Well, they failed. :) But i payed a price, isolation, and finally turning my back on the whole field.
Takeda Shingen
01-13-11, 08:23 AM
There comes a time when one has to say alright enough. That time is now. :timeout:
Pretty soon they will be prosecuting members of the Hitler youth cause that's all that will be left!
I was also going to say that there couldn't be all that many of them left.
Catfish
01-13-11, 08:36 AM
Hello,
Germany was unwilling to prosecute Nazis because
a) a lot of them still sat at important positions be it administraive, industrially or in the jurisdiction - helped and assisted by the Allies, against communism. Which is why there almost was a german revolution, starting at the universities, in 1968.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5829591109843154195#docid=51970393 90510898056
b) Does Gladio ring a bell ? This was and is active in Europe, especially in the Germany after the war already when the BND was still called Organisation Gehlen led by a top Nazi, and enforced by the US Green Berets. Nowadays state-terrorism often is directed against the own population, to push through certain laws against the left menace, terrorists or whatever is suited as a "threat". Not a conspiracy theory, but a practice as old as mankind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dl_J9LFErZA&feature=related
So i would not say that the finding and prosecuting of a few minor Nazis is really such a great accomplishment ? Wiesenthal center should know better.
Greetings,
Catfish
Feuer Frei!
01-13-11, 08:52 AM
The argument that the prosecuted persons are old now is void in my opinion.
It, unfortunately is not void, it is a hard reality, and with old age comes ill health, and with that comes other things...deferrment of court proceedings, death before sentencing, many things.
A society that constantly lives with its mind in the past, has no future.
Indeed, but does it really? Or is it not 'allowed' to look forward with pride by ignorant groups, and there are many, who sterotype all day long, or the continuous dredging up of the past and waving it in front of the faces of people?
It may be a direct way of putting things, and i'm getting o.t. here...
Matador.es
01-13-11, 09:13 AM
If i may comment on this topic:
In the immediate post-war years, Boere spent two years in an Allied prisoner-of-war camp, where he was interrogated and admitted to the three killings. After release from the PoW camp, Boere initially went into hiding out of fear of being sentenced to a lengthy prison sentence, but managed to flee to Germany. In 1949, a Dutch court sentenced Boere to death in absentia for the three murders, for supporting the enemy, and for serving in the army of the enemy. According to Dutch law, the latter automatically leads to the loss of Dutch citizenship. Boere claimed German citizenship on the basis of a so-called Führererlass, a law promulgated by Hitler providing all SS-members with German citizenship. This law remained in force during the 1950s and 1960s in Germany, but was later annulled under pressure from the European Union. From that point on, Boere was stateless, which was confirmed during the trial against him that started in October 2009. The German government has refused to extradite him. West Germany was responsible for prosecuting war criminals, but Boere was never brought to trial there.[5]
Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Boere
A Dutch man who collaborated in '40 was sentenced to death in '49. He (Boere) escaped and went to Germany. There, he was granted a German citizen ship since he was (hardcore) Waffen-SS and there is a law in Germany they cannot be extradited.
Late 2009 the Dutch state initiated a trail to to manage extradition from the German government (Dep of justice), who refused. Lately a request has been made in the European Union to force Germany to extradite this Boere so the sentence can be executed.
The Netherlands do not have a death penalty, except during war time, which Boere received. Off course this sentence will not take effect when the extradition would take place (would not mind if it would happen though).
It is a bit harsh though that after so many years Germany still protects former war criminal by law. Although various German politicians have publicly disapproved the protection of Boere, the law is still in effect.:know:
I'm all for no statute of limitations on crimes against humanity I do wish however as much time was spent on tracking more recent perpetrators of war crimes.
Feuer Frei!
01-13-11, 09:32 AM
If i may comment on this topic:
Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Boere
A Dutch man who collaborated in '40 was sentenced to death in '49. He (Boere) escaped and went to Germany. There, he was granted a German citizen ship since he was (hardcore) Waffen-SS and there is a law in Germany they cannot be extradited.
Late 2009 the Dutch state initiated a trail to to manage extradition from the German government (Dep of justice), who refused. Lately a request has been made in the European Union to force Germany to extradite this Boere so the sentence can be executed.
The Netherlands do not have a death penalty, except during war time, which Boere received. Off course this sentence will not take effect when the extradition would take place (would not mind if it would happen though).
It is a bit harsh though that after so many years Germany still protects former war criminal by law. Although various German politicians have publicly disapproved the protection of Boere, the law is still in effect.:know:
The only thing you left out was that he was tried and sentenced to life in prison. By Germany.
I don't see how he was protected.
Freiwillige
01-13-11, 09:36 AM
I'm all for rounding up the most evil deserving sob's and giving them justice but there is a point that it just starts to stink of a witch hunt. It happened, it was stopped, the leaders are dead and buried along with almost all the henchmen.
Its become to political really. Like trying to beat a dead horse to keep the story alive. I understand they don't want anybody to forget about the holocaust and that's understandable but its gotten so overwhelming that people tend to forget that there are plenty of other victims of that war as well. There are always victims of war.
Feuer Frei!
01-13-11, 09:37 AM
So i would not say that the finding and prosecuting of a few minor Nazis is really such a great accomplishment ? Wiesenthal center should know better.
Ivan Demjanjuk, Heinrich Boere... certainly not 'minor' Nazis, in fact in the top 10 wanted list.
Matador.es
01-13-11, 09:37 AM
The only thing you left out was that he was tried and sentenced to life in prison. By Germany.
I don't see how he was protected.
since he is not in prison?
The Provincial Court of Appeal in Cologne ruled on 7 July 2009, that Heinrich Boere was fit for trial, overturning the lower court's ruling.[7] Following a judicial review by the German Constitutional Court, the court decided not to accept Boere's appeal and ruled further that Boere was indeed fit to stand trial. However, according to the court he will be under medical supervision, being provided with a doctor for the length of the trial. The trial started on 28 October 2009, at Aachen's regional court.[8]
In 2009, Boere lived in an old-age home in his birth town of Eschweiler, Germany.[5] He was not taken into custody for the trial against him. In an interview with Der Spiegel, he said, "I'm not interested in what happened back then."[9] In a documentary by Dutch journalists Rob van Olm and Jan Louter, who were the first to bring Boere to the attention of the public, Boere did admit to some feeling of remorse and states he has confessed his crimes to a priest, and has prayed for his victims. On 23 March 2010 in Aachen, Germany, he was sentenced to life in prison. His defence, that he would have been shot had he disobeyed orders (sometimes known as the 'Nuremberg Defense'), was rejected. Following the ruling of the court, his solicitors announced that they would appeal the judgment.[10] {Source:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heinrich_Boere}
Above all, its kind of late, 2009 since '49.
Feuer Frei!
01-13-11, 09:45 AM
since he is not in prison?
I don't understand?
On 23 March 2010 in Aachen, Germany, he was sentenced to life in prison.Above all, its kind of late, 2009 since '49.Yes, perhaps, your post just came across a little 'anti-German' is all, in the view that they were unwilling to deport, ie unwilling to trie and sentence...
i think i took your original post slightly wrong :yep:
Catfish
01-13-11, 09:57 AM
It seems most of the Nazi went to the USA, and South America. In Germany and Europe the minor ones were prosecuted and often killed, the higher "rest" was used against communism.
A german peasant was pulling beetroots out of the ground, when a US soldier came along and asked him what he did.
He said "De-Nazification, i pull out the small ones so the others grow bigger".
Only that - as the links i put in in the post above - the US and general "the west" took advantage and supported those Nazis against the eastern threat. Operation Gladio and its members were strictly recruiting right-wing anti-communism people, like Nazis.
O.T.:
Now that the external threats are mostly gone, they have to make up a threat to justify their existence and it seems they perform acts of internal state terrorism. Some of the bombing assassinations seem to be initiated by Gladio, and similar agencies in the US.
Greetings,
Catfish
Matador.es
01-13-11, 10:26 AM
I don't understand?
Yes, perhaps, your post just came across a little 'anti-German' is all, in the view that they were unwilling to deport, ie unwilling to trie and sentence...
i think i took your original post slightly wrong :yep:
I am sorry for "appearing anti-German", in case i did; that is not what I intend to be. But, please do not take this as an offence, but I do still get "mad" and yes, I am anti Nazi, when we talk about ppl like Boere.
But my "anti-Nazi" should not be (mis)interpreted as anti-German, not at all.
My first post was just about giving a practical example for things already mentioned before by others like Vendor and Catfish in particular.
And this is an open question since I can’t find any source confirming my recollection; is he also jailed according to his sentence?
Skybird
01-13-11, 11:38 AM
And this is an open question since I can’t find any source confirming my recollection; is he also jailed according to his sentence?
There do not seem to be any media entries about him after the sentence from March 2010, when he got life. He was in a wheelchair back then, and of high age, and ill. He said back then that he did not care much about the sentence, for he were so old now that all he waited for was death. I assume he is in prison, but in the hospital wing.
He confessed guilty on the charges. He also said - no matter what it is worth and whether he was honest or not - that he regretted what he did, that he wished he had not done it, and that back then him any many others honestly believed they were doing the right thing, while now he knew that he obviously did not.
His defender said that after 66 years a person hardly still is the same person it has been back then. Some Nazi criminals denied their guilt and demonstrated a mental inability to realise the evilness of what they had done. At least at the end of his life, Boere refused to do that, and instead confessed guilty. For whatever it is worth.
Skybird
01-13-11, 11:43 AM
Oh-oh, I was wrong. News from August last year:
http://www.da****radio.de/nachrichten/heinrich-boere-prozess
replace **** with s h i t (das Hit Radio).
His lawyer has appealed against the German court sentence, on basis of European laws that prohibit that you get called to court twice for the same crime. In 1949 Boerne was sentenced by a court in Netherlands for the same crime, the assassination of three civilians. He did not go to prison back then, obviously, but his lawyer argues that he could not be charged twice for the same crime he had been sentenced for before.
Sounds like a dipsute about formal things. Don'T know what has come of this. The lawyer claimed the same already in March at the German court, but the court rejected to follow his argument.
Skybird
01-13-11, 11:46 AM
Ah, here it is, the appeal was denied in Decembre last year by the 2nd senate of the German Federal Court:
http://www.antenne-ac.de/005453-fall-heinrich-boere-revision-zurueck-gewiesen
And no, he is not in prison or hospital (Decembre) but still is in an old people's home. There seems to have been a scandal about two Dutch journalists having filmed him there with hidden camera, and who then got into troubles over hanving done that.
http://www.focus.de/politik/deutschland/tid-20849/heinrich-boere-greiser-ss-verbrecher-macht-niederlaender-zornig_aid_584560.html
(from 24.12.2010)
Also, forget what I said about him having regretted his deeds. It seems to have been a manouver only, by this latest link.
So kann man sich irren.
Matador.es
01-13-11, 11:58 AM
....In 1949 Boerne was sentenced by a court in Netherlands for the same crime, the assassination of three civilians. He did not go to prison back then,.....
He was not sentenced for life nor prison, but for death in '49
Anyway, we have been talking and thinking longer about his trail then he ever did about his killings. So better turn it around :o
Also some i like to share, like he said himself, he is so old that the only thing he does is waiting to die, so it does not matter to him if he get imprisoned....
That is quite a thing, it would have been different if he would have been in jail in '49 till now. So he is completely right, the penalty is not hard enough.
PS yes, its easy to get confused
and enforced by the US Green Berets.
I think you might might have your sources mixed up Catfish, as the US Green Berets do not handle law enforcement or any other type of police work. Their function is to train foreign military and insurgent troops to fight wars.
I think you might might have your sources mixed up Catfish, as the US Green Berets do not handle law enforcement or any other type of police work. Their function is to train foreign military and insurgent troops to fight wars. I could not have expressed myself better than you!
Takeda Shingen
01-13-11, 04:41 PM
I think you might might have your sources mixed up Catfish, as the US Green Berets do not handle law enforcement or any other type of police work. Their function is to train foreign military and insurgent troops to fight wars.
I swear that I could remember you having been a Green Beret. Am I mixed up on that?
the_tyrant
01-13-11, 05:28 PM
Its odd that this wasn't mentioned, but is hunting down Nazis still worth the money and effort?
Couldn't the money and effort be better used against criminal organizations that are currently active?
Its odd that this wasn't mentioned, but is hunting down Nazis still worth the money and effort?
Couldn't the money and effort be better used against criminal organizations that are currently active? It makes some pretty big bets on your areas, as you describe here and in relation to international work so give it success, even if not everything comes out in the media, thank goodness
Penguin
01-13-11, 06:23 PM
While I cannot c onsider it to be justivce when a Nazi criminal has lived free for most of his life and the last 2 years of his life, maybe lives behind bars .....a compensation of some mass killing he participated in? Hardly.
Yes, but now we are arguing more about the philosophical meaning of the word justice - I meant justice just as a strict jurisdictional term.
If I would mean real justice in terms how I feel about it, I would talk about 7.62
we owe it to the victims and to the scale of the Nazi disaster to prosecute those having actively particiapted in the crime
qft
It, unfortunately is not void, it is a hard reality, and with old age comes ill health, and with that comes other things...deferrment of court proceedings, death before sentencing, many things.
I did not want to deny that the people who we are talking about are old farts today ;)
I deny that these people earn any way of compassion, just because they are old and may have health probs.
Like I said before, their victims would have certainly prefered to become old and get arthritis or other sufferings rather than being ditched in the ground.
Finally: let's not forget ALL the other victims of WW2, but in this thread we should talk about the hunt for the last remaining Nazis who comitted atrocities.
I swear that I could remember you having been a Green Beret. Am I mixed up on that?
Yes you are.
I am not a Green Beret. I did however serve in a Special Forces unit alongside them for three years as a radio operator in their Military Intelligence company, which is probably what you're thinking of.
Takeda Shingen
01-13-11, 06:52 PM
Yes you are.
I am not a Green Beret. I did however serve in a Special Forces unit alongside them for three years as a radio operator in their Military Intelligence company, which is probably what you're thinking of.
That would be what I would have remembered it from, yes. Sorry about that!
That would be what I would have remembered it from, yes. Sorry about that!
Nothing to be sorry about. It was an interesting time in my life.
Catfish
01-14-11, 12:33 PM
Hello,
I think you might might have your sources mixed up Catfish, as the US Green Berets do not handle law enforcement or any other type of police work. Their function is to train foreign military and insurgent troops to fight wars.
You are right, the operations were cordinated by NATO, the secret "stay-behind" armies were lead by military secret services in Europe, in close cooperation with the CIA, the British SIS and MI6. Those clandestine NATO armies were trained together with the US Green Berets and the British SAS.
But then this is not what the content meant ..
All the countries that were member in the NATO were covered by this network, including " ... Belgium, Denmark, France, Germany, Greece, Italy, Luxemburg, Netherlands, Norway, Portugal, Spain, and Turkey, as well as the neutral European countries of Austria, Finland, Sweden and Switzerland. ..."
Greetings,
Catfish
kiwi_2005
01-14-11, 02:11 PM
We have our own right wing resistance, who find the need to push flyers into cities folks faces about how wrong immigration is here. :roll: Christchurch is skinhead city.
http://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/christchurch/4532423/White-supremacist-flyers-offend
Althought they do make a few good pointers:
They jump on our Welfare system:
Many do jump on our welfare system as soon as they land but whos fault is that? Our govenment we should take a stance like the Aussie did, no dole until your been here for 6 months.
They take our jobs:
They do grab our jobs where kiwis are left out cause immgrants will work for very low pay. Where the proud kiwi's will say **** that. Again not their fault. $7 an hour is better than $4 a month where they come from.
Disrespect our culture.
Yes many do and we have to respect theirs! PC bull.
They bring diseases.
No!
increasingly take over our schools
No. I think this is cause Asians are so damn intelligent that they leave the kiwi in the dust when it comes to education. They do well in school, they are more well mannered people and where the kiwi is out on a saturday night drinking and partying the asian teenager is at home studying.
They bring crime:
Most crime is committed by New Zealanders. 99% of immigrants come here to start a new life some do come here to make money in the Drug P etc., but the majority come here to make it work.
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