Jolly Roger flag - from 1982 to present day

[Marcantilan]

Hello all,

I´m putting together an article about the usage of the Jolly Roger flag, from the South Atlantic War to this day.

Already, I have.

http://img96.imageshack.us/img96/2725/dconqueror.jpg
HMS Conqueror from the South Atlantic War - 1 kill mark (C-4) & 1 dagger for special ops near islands capital.


http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/6366/hmsonyxjollyroger.jpg
HMS Onyx also from South Atlantic War - 1 dagger for special ops near the islands capital.

http://img697.imageshack.us/img697/3931/comingalongsidehmsdolph.jpg
HMS Sealion, from South Atlantic deployment (1987) - 2 daggers for special ops disembark & embark, Argentine mainland.

http://img80.imageshack.us/img80/2161/hmsopossumfromgulf.jpg
HMS Opossum, from Gulf War 1 (1991) - Just the Jolly Roger (some press speculated about special ops, Irak mainland)


http://img443.imageshack.us/img443/1368/otusjollyrogerdiariofot.jpg

http://img812.imageshack.us/img812/5415/otusgulfwar1fotoporchar.jpg

http://img709.imageshack.us/img709/7181/otusjollyroger.jpg

HMS Otus, from Gulf War 1 (1991) - Just the Jolly Roger (some press speculated about special ops, Irak mainland)


http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/7765/iraq.jpg
http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/1899/hmssplendidporchriscoom.jpg
HMS Splendid, from Kosovo (1999) - Hammer and stars for Tomahawk bombing mission.

(No pic)
HMS Trafalgar & HMS Superb, returning from Red Sea (December 2001), after Tomahawk bombing mission to Kabul.

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_zgjx7L_aXls/R8gJglHCYiI/AAAAAAAAAAs/S2CjxV06dLw/s1600/Turb%2Bwith%2Bjolly.jpg
HMS Turbulent, returning from Gulf War 2, after Tomahawk bombing to Bagdad.

My question is, I missed any Jolly Roger use &, anyone have better pics to share?

Thanks a lot!
Mariano

PS: Already posted in Submariners Association (UK) forum, but I think could be useful here (for my article and interesting to discuss here)

[Jimbuna]

A closer one of Conqueror

http://www.naval.com.br/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Conqueror_jolly_roger.jpg

[Takeda Shingen]

Cool shots, guys!

[TLAM Strike]

http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/2254/boatzeeleeuw2jollyroger.jpg

Zeeleeuw (2) (http://www.dutchsubmarines.com/boats/boat_zeeleeuw2.htm) flying a Jolly Roger, during an exercise somewhere off the U.K. SSE. coast, in order to provoke a British frigate. Sometime between 1 and 4 Oct 2001. (Photo: © Hr.Ms. Zeeleeuw website).
another photo of Conquer:
http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/8120/mainphpg2viewcorelr.jpg

USS Ohio, reason unknown (probably just fooling around...)
http://img691.imageshack.us/img691/7435/mdiv20and20the20jolly20.jpg

[Platapus]

Are you going to just collect imagery off of the Internet Tubes or will you also be going into the history of why and how this flag was used.

I think that would be interesting to read. :yep:

[Matador.es]

@Platapus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolly_Roger#By_submarines

@Marcantilan
Just for the record on the photos. The current "Gulf War' is the third, not the second. The second Gulf War is the '91 outbreak.

The first gulf war was from sept. 1980 till aug. 1988. It was this war in which the US supplied Iran with F-14 TomCats, Stingers, and all other sorts of weapons what, nowadays is the most inconvenient thing ever happened since most of the weapons are still in use by the US..... also in case of an intervention with Iran. Though this should not be any argument to leave it out of the Gulf war "counting".

But sure nice photos!:yeah:

[Penguin]

Wow, interesting! Didn't know the use of the Jolly Roger by british subs untill now, so I can't contribute anything, but looking forward to the article!

[Jimbuna]

Wow, interesting! Didn't know the use of the Jolly Roger by british subs untill now, so I can't contribute anything, but looking forward to the article!

There are a great many more if you go back to the WWII era but the OP dateline is 1982 onwards.

[Raptor1]

@Platapus:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jolly_Roger#By_submarines

@Marcantilan
Just for the record on the photos. The current "Gulf War' is the third, not the second. The second Gulf War is the '91 outbreak.

The first gulf war was from sept. 1980 till aug. 1988. It was this war in which the US supplied Iran with F-14 TomCats, Stingers, and all other sorts of weapons what, nowadays is the most inconvenient thing ever happened since most of the weapons are still in use by the US..... also in case of an intervention with Iran. Though this should not be any argument to leave it out of the Gulf war "counting".

But sure nice photos!:yeah:

The most commonly accepted names for these wars (At least in English) are the Iran-Iraq War, Gulf War and Iraq War respectively.

Also, the US did not supply Iran with weaponry during the Iran-Iraq War, IIRC it in fact supplied Iraq rather extensively. Iran did have US-made weapons which it acquired before the revolution, but the lack of ability to get replacement parts for them was a major problem for the Iranian military.

[Penguin]

There are a great many more if you go back to the WWII era but the OP dateline is 1982 onwards.

So do you think that the order to raise the black flag on the u-boats during the capitulation has a connection to this fact?

[heartc]

What Raptor said, with regards to the nomenclature at least (beat me to it).

[Jimbuna]

So do you think that the order to raise the black flag on the u-boats during the capitulation has a connection to this fact?

I couldn't say for sure but IMHO I'd have thought it was more a way of sending a 'dark sorrowful message' a kind of 'mourning' if you like.

[Penguin]

hmm, interesting, I haven't seen the flags in the mourning sense till now. Maybe. As you certainly know the u-boat crews preceived it that they were branded as pirates, so this makes the use of the Jolly Roger by the British so remarkable to me.

[Matador.es]

Also, the US did not supply Iran with weaponry during the Iran-Iraq War, IIRC it in fact supplied Iraq rather extensively. Iran did have US-made weapons which it acquired before the revolution, but the lack of ability to get replacement parts for them was a major problem for the Iranian military.

You do make a point that Iran was not supplied during the war, 4 till 2 years before the war.

About the parts for maintenance:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16648850/ns/us_news-military/

But there is no reason to worry, the russians have supplied iran with subs that are good enough to hoist a jolly roger for a carrier hit :damn: before the only two countries in the world who have F-14's can use them in combat.

Aircraft carriers seem to become obsolete lately….
:salute:

[TLAM Strike]

You do make a point that Iran was not supplied during the war, 4 till 2 years before the war.

About the parts for maintenance:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16648850/ns/us_news-military/

But there is no reason to worry, the russians have supplied iran with subs that are good enough to hoist a jolly roger for a carrier hit :damn: before the only two countries in the world who have F-14's can use them in combat.

Aircraft carriers seem to become obsolete lately….
:salute:

I would not worry too much about the Russian Supplied Kilo subs. They are a downgraded Project 877 export types. Its electronics and especially sonar is junk. Their refits (one complete and one in progress) have only added minor improvements (C-801s from 2 tubes, better batteries), but we are still talking vintage late 1970s tech here.

A lot of people like to talk about the Iranian F-14As but remember their AIM-54s are expended and only half are operational. The bigger A/A threat is their MiG-29B Fulcrum-As, which are increasingly dated. For Anti-carrier strikes the only major threat is the 24 or so Su-24 Fencers and whatever F-4s they have rigged to fire the 40Nm range C-801Ks or the 64nm ranged C-802K (very few 802Ks in service). The IIRAF (and IRGCAF) only have about 250 combat aircraft, none of them modern, very quickly they could they could find themselves being overwhelmed by superior numbers of better fighters.

[Matador.es]

I would not worry too much about the Russian Supplied Kilo subs. They are a downgraded Project 877 export types. Its electronics and especially sonar is junk. Their refits (one complete and one in progress) have only added minor improvements (C-801s from 2 tubes, better batteries), but we are still talking vintage late 1970s tech here.

A lot of people like to talk about the Iranian F-14As but remember their AIM-54s are expended and only half are operational. The bigger A/A threat is their MiG-29B Fulcrum-As, which are increasingly dated. For Anti-carrier strikes the only major threat is the 24 or so Su-24 Fencers and whatever F-4s they have rigged to fire the 40Nm range C-801Ks or the 64nm ranged C-802K (very few 802Ks in service). The IIRAF (and IRGCAF) only have about 250 combat aircraft, none of them modern, very quickly they could they could find themselves being overwhelmed by superior numbers of better fighters.

You seem to be well informed (again) :yeah:

Can a C-802 be fired from a 21" (533mm) tube?

Sorry for leaving the jolly roger topic...:oops:

[Oberon]

Onyx did good work in the Falklands war as a SpecOps boat but managed to ram a rock and damage one of her torpedo tubes IIRC during one of the missions. Thankfully she's still about and is up at Barrow at the Submarine museum there.

[TLAM Strike]

Can a C-802 be fired from a 21" (533mm) tube?

The Chinese have a tube launched version of the C-802 (YJ-82) for their submarines. Photos of it came to light last November.
http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/2494/129110724787912.th.jpg (http://img25.imageshack.us/i/129110724787912.jpg/)
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3418/001fd04d757f0e5ec86403.th.jpg (http://img109.imageshack.us/i/001fd04d757f0e5ec86403.jpg/)
http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/1255/20107209186811491868.th.jpg (http://img156.imageshack.us/i/20107209186811491868.jpg/)
(click to embiggin)

But I have seen nothing that says Iran has this weapon, even if they did its max range would be far beyond a 877 boat's tracking abilities. Remember the MGK-400 sonar on their boats is a very basic system, it doesn't even have LOFAR narrowband classification capabilities (all it has for that is some form of DEMON).

[TLAM Strike]

HMS Sealion, from South Atlantic deployment (1987) - 2 daggers for special ops disembark & embark, Argentine mainland.

1987? :o Could someone fill me in on this operation? :hmmm:

[Marcantilan]

Thanks all for the answers!!!

1987? :o Could someone fill me in on this operation? :hmmm:

No details available.

However, during the 80´s Argentina and Britain played a mini-cold war in the South Atlantic, including Psyops, EW, air intercepts, intelligence gathering ops and you name it.

For example, Argentine Air Force carried various missions to test RAF response times and radar coverage. In response, RAF Phantoms and latter Tornados intercepted dozens of Argentine flights.

Same happened underwater, as usual...