Uninstalling Grey Wolves

[Nangleator]

Finally got a PC that can handle Grey Wolves... and after a few patrols, it's getting deleted.

I love the look. I love the extra little features, and the new targets. I can live with the constant radio chatter, that makes me dismiss my radio man from duty so I can actually travel to where enemy ships might be, at greater than real-time.

But I can't handle the escorts. Coming within range of one is the end of each career. No exceptions.

I can easily outlast their stores of depth charges, but my store of oxygen is limited, and their patience is unlimited.

My last career, I dragged two escorts off a convoy for more than 36 hours. At 150 meters depth and less than 1 knot, they never, ever left me. They could ping me easily. They never got more than a few hundred meters away from my position. I was using external view extensively, so I know.

When I got desperate, I got myself to periscope depth a couple times to loose off all my torpedoes. I actually sank one of them. My last two eels missed the escort by a few feet, so I decided to make a fight of it on the surface.

My two shells did him some serious damage, but I had yellow-damaged compartments, so I got under again. I was repairing, corrected flooding in two compartments, stopped an uncontrolled descent and was coming up through 50 meters when I apparently imploded.

Does any damage at all = dead?

Has any player ever seen an escort and survived?

Going back to stock.

[VONHARRIS]

Don't do it.

At what time did this happen? If it happened after 1943 then it is the most common thing to happen as Allied ASW capabilities were awesome.

Also , there is no chance to win a surface battle with an escort. Try to avoid them at all costs. Your main targets are the merchants. After late 1942 try long range stand off attacks against convoys that give you time to relocate and escape.

[Gargamel]

I started a career in mid '44 and survived until i got stupid and sank myself. If you have the right tactics and patience, you can easily evade escorts. And you have to remember this is a sim, not an arcade game. If you want an arcade style game, you can alter the cfg files to affect how you are detected

[JScones]

Has any player ever seen an escort and survived?
Given that there are 1000s of GWX users and given that many have posted of their quite fruitful careers, I'd say the answer is "yes". Otherwise, I am sure there's be 1000s of "Has any player ever seen an escort and survived?" threads.

I found it harder moving from stock too, until I realised it was I that had to change my tactics. Once I learnt that, well...

[Gargamel]

Don't get us wrong, play the game/sim as you want to play it, and I'm sure the GWX team can help you with getting it removed. But GWX does have a bit of a learning curve, just like real life.

[Iranon]

Strange. My main complaints about the bigger escort vessels in GWX is that they're too easy to kill, to the extent that the main reason to sneak away is to conserve torpedos rather than surviving (I actually feel more comfortable blowing them up but often refrain from doing so for immersion/realism).

If anything feels unfair, it's the damn torpedo boats.

[Nangleator]

Thanks for the replies.

I confess to some impatience last night, but I'm not interested in an arcade game. I enjoyed stock for years, and just recently loaded Grey Wolves.

My third patrol ended last night when I gingerly approached a convoy in '40, loosed four torpedoes that ran for 3 kilometers. (3 hit.) By then, I was at 50 meters and heading down to 148. Two escorts, then a third headed directly to my location. One of them gave up after a few hours, to rejoin the convoy, which was out of range of me by then. The other two didn't leave me.

I didn't exceed 1 knot after I got below 100 meters, and I ran silent. No reloading for the first 24 hours.

I didn't attack the escorts for fun. I COULD NOT GET AWAY. I even spent a six hour stretch without moving. They didn't leave. My attacks on the escorts were a last ditch effort to survive the loss of my oxygen.

Can VIIb's survive at 200 meters?

[Gargamel]

Yes, they possibly can, I have taken mine that deep, but I was using SHC's randomize crush depth option. Usually, when I get a new boat, I do a test dive to see if I can get to 200ish m's without taking damage. As soon as my crew starts yelling about damage, I note the depth, and blow the tanks. But I like to go that deep myself to evade, since depth charges maxed out at 500ft.

Sitting still in GWX is baaaaaaad (with extra sheep). They will constantly pick you up on active sonar, and keep you fixed there. You need to be making slow curves away from where you are, in order to confuse them.

[stokeyblokey]

Can VIIb's survive at 200 meters?

I have had one go as far down as 220m and survive but man was I bricking it! This little uncontrolled dive happened after taking only slight (yellow) damage from being rammed by a DD when I panicked and pressed C...we obviously had some flooding and the bloody boat just would not pull up, I tried full reverse, blow main ballast etc and then was just starting to pray when the bows came up and she started back up again - I have to say it cost me a LOT of hull integrity, can't quite remember how much but safe to say I did not want to deeper than Periscope depth on the return to port.

Of course, if you have damage then more than likely you will just keep on diving...

One recent patrol the presure hull let go after a deep dive to 180m to avoid DCs - but only once I had got the boat back up to 20m with warnings of "We have flooding sir!" constantly...thought I might have made it with the repair crew working like mad but then WHAM "Submarine destroyed due to pressure". :nope:

[Jimbuna]

Finally got a PC that can handle Grey Wolves... and after a few patrols, it's getting deleted.

I love the look. I love the extra little features, and the new targets. I can live with the constant radio chatter, that makes me dismiss my radio man from duty so I can actually travel to where enemy ships might be, at greater than real-time.

But I can't handle the escorts. Coming within range of one is the end of each career. No exceptions.

I can easily outlast their stores of depth charges, but my store of oxygen is limited, and their patience is unlimited.

My last career, I dragged two escorts off a convoy for more than 36 hours. At 150 meters depth and less than 1 knot, they never, ever left me. They could ping me easily. They never got more than a few hundred meters away from my position. I was using external view extensively, so I know.

When I got desperate, I got myself to periscope depth a couple times to loose off all my torpedoes. I actually sank one of them. My last two eels missed the escort by a few feet, so I decided to make a fight of it on the surface.

My two shells did him some serious damage, but I had yellow-damaged compartments, so I got under again. I was repairing, corrected flooding in two compartments, stopped an uncontrolled descent and was coming up through 50 meters when I apparently imploded.

Does any damage at all = dead?

Has any player ever seen an escort and survived?

Going back to stock.

From reading the above my advice would be to untick the limited oxygen and batteries in your options screen until you become more proficient in overcoming the challenges GWX is giving you.

Should you still decide to uninstall then simply use the Add/Remove Program facility in your Control Panel, not forgetting to delete the SH3 folder in C\MyDocs.

[desirableroasted]

Oh, how I remember my first few patrols with GWX. A real lesson in patience.

You might have had the bad luck to be picked up by 2-3 escorts with elite skills... it happens, even in 39-40, I believe. And that is a hard combination to shake. I got a very good Black Swan* and two others on me last night (Jan 1940) and, while we got away without a scratch, it was two hours of creeping, knuckle turns, snaking, and lots of creaking at 200m.

You say you are going at 1 knot. Remember that the game calls anything between 1.00 and 1.99 knots "1 knot". If you were pushing 2 knots, you might have been running too many RPMs & thus not as silent as you thought. You want to dial that back to no higher than 75 rpm. "Silent running" in the game only means your crew is quiet...

But don't give up. Many of us find GWX a hugely rich experience. I know I would not still be playing the game if this mod had not come along.

*The Black Swan would have been HMS Flamingo, the only Black Swan in service in January 1940. In 1959, she will be sold to West Germany and renamed Graf Spee. How is that for ironic?

[Jimbuna]

Oh, how I remember my first few patrols with GWX. A real lesson in patience.

You might have had the bad luck to be picked up by 2-3 escorts with elite skills... it happens, even in 39-40, I believe. And that is a hard combination to shake. I got a very good Black Swan* and two others on me last night (Jan 1940) and, while we got away without a scratch, it was two hours of creeping, knuckle turns, snaking, and lots of creaking at 200m.

You say you are going at 1 knot. Remember that the game calls anything between 1.00 and 1.99 knots "1 knot". If you were pushing 2 knots, you might have been running too many RPMs & thus not as silent as you thought. You want to dial that back to no higher than 75 rpm. "Silent running" in the game only means your crew is quiet...

But don't give up. Many of us find GWX a hugely rich experience. I know I would not still be playing the game if this mod had not come along.

*The Black Swan would have been HMS Flamingo, the only Black Swan in service in January 1940. In 1959, she will be sold to West Germany and renamed Graf Spee. How is that for ironic?

Great post http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Pisces]

I heartily second the other responses here. While I do not doubt your efforts and frustration in trying to avoid those destroyers, I cannot reflect on my experience of patrols to be generally that hard. (Especially in 1940) It really helped me reading the last parts of the GWX manual. Very useful tips on ASW avoidance. You mentioned meeting a DD means certain death. How long does it take before you are detected in the first place? On the surface I mean. Not getting caught is half of the victory dance. When I make a crash-dive I keep flank or a moderately high speed-setting until I am at the desired depth. Going to 1 knot at 100 meters might still be to shallow, and after that you dive really slow because of that 1 knot. Depth-charges might still fall on your head and hurt. Once you are submerged and in the deep trying to get away from the searching DDs, remember that they may still be doing just that, searching as they circle around you. Pinging also only means that they are searching. They don't necessarily have you in their fix. You just haven't got very far yet in your sneak-away manouvre. If the pinging becomes less louder over time (multiple DD runs) means that you are going in the right direction. Don't go full rudder as it seems to slow you down significantly. With partial rudder can you make a turn and still go somewhere in reasonable time. This is very important since you already are very slow because of being silent. So try to turn as little as possible. But if you do turn, try to head to from where the charging DD came. And for active sonar it matters how your boat is angled to the pinging DD. If he is on your 90/270 then he has a nice reflection area to get a bounce from. As for crushdepth, watch 'Das Boot'. You can often go 25% to 50% deeper than official crushdepth. May be even deeper. But watch out, when you do receive depth induced damage, get up quickly and go less deep. DON'T test the depth at which it started twice! Especially after other hull damage.

[nikbear]

Patience is whats required,its a game that you just can't rush,in order to be successful and survive you have to think like they did,"Is it worth it,whats the chance of success,can I get my men home??"
Approach it like that,realistically and the game come's 'Alive'
You will never look at it the same again!!!!:salute::salute::salute:

[Wulfgar44]

I am on my 7th War Patrol in a IID, having 5 in the IIA, and have seen a destroyer once. I booked it out because the depth there was around 36m. I think complete avoidence is best. My job is to sink Merchants or Capital ships, if I get the shot. In convoy action it's best to shoot and run. I don't hang out to look things over. I will try to intercept the convoy again later. I really have not seen much of the enemy. I have been attacked twice by planes but that was not a problem. I see an occasional patrol-craft,... but my worst fear are the mines on Britan's east coast.

[Nangleator]

In stock SHIII, I probably have completed 40 or so patrols. Never saw a military ship bigger than a destroyer.

[Pappy55]

There is a GWX friendly mod that disables non essential radio chatter.. I am trying to find it again myself

EDIT**

Just found it by luck..

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/downloads.php?do=file&id=1385

try that

[Wulfgar44]

Finally came under attack by a destoyer. Ran into a convoy moving NE towards Norway on my way to AN 14. Just ran upon it. Mostly neutrals. But one or two Brits mixed in. I dove to 40m and was chugging along at 4kts,... guess the Teabag heard me. My hydro guy told me they were coming right for me. At the time I was trying to get into a better position to attack the few Brits hiding inside the convoy. All the ones I saw at first on the outside were Swedish and Norwegian. With the destroyer coming, I dove to 90m and set my speed to 1kt. He had trouble finding me at first. Eventually he did some damage to my stern and propellers. We sank to 124m before we could come up again. The DC's lasted for about 2.5 hours before I could get out of there. Now I'm on my way to Helo-something to get repairs. I'm in a IID.

[frau kaleun]

Finally came under attack by a destoyer. Ran into a convoy moving NE towards Norway on my way to AN 14. Just ran upon it. Mostly neutrals. But one or two Brits mixed in. I dove to 40m and was chugging along at 4kts,... guess the Teabag heard me. My hydro guy told me they were coming right for me. At the time I was trying to get into a better position to attack the few Brits hiding inside the convoy. All the ones I saw at first on the outside were Swedish and Norwegian. With the destroyer coming, I dove to 90m and set my speed to 1kt. He had trouble finding me at first. Eventually he did some damage to my stern and propellers. We sank to 124m before we could come up again. The DC's lasted for about 2.5 hours before I could get out of there. Now I'm on my way to Helo-something to get repairs. I'm in a IID.

If you're going to Helgoland, be careful. I'm told the Tommies dropped mines in that vicinity soon after the war started. :arrgh!:

[Obersteuermann]

Seeing as you're getting latched onto by elite destroyers all the time, whereabouts do you normally operate? I've lost count of the number of times my careers have ended within 300kms NW of Scotland. The game just loves vectoring infallible V&Ws/Black Swans onto me in that area.

Like Pisces says, take your boat down for a test dive somewhere safe before you get into hostile waters. I usually go for the Norwegian side of the Skagerrak (can't be bothered with the Kiel Canal - it's so narrow/shallow that I rarely get above TC16 while navigating it) whilst outbound. In a Type VII, take her straight down to 160 metres and then down again in 10-metre steps to find your danger depth.

You'll be surprised just how deep you can push it sometimes. My last VIIB got down to 255 metres before the pressure hull started leaking, but that was with SH3 Cdr's "randomise crush depth" setting ticked.

As for your evasion tactics - always, always, always keep moving. If you were tracking a target that stopped dead, you wouldn't lose it all of a sudden! Gentle turns of 15-20 degrees at decently-spaced intervals work best for breaking asdic contacts. The AI will remember your last location and direction of travel and pings the area based on that info when it loses you. Lots of gentle turns are better than one long reversal.

[Wulfgar44]

I made it to Helgoland. I'll be watching on the way out. :o

[Gargamel]

I made it to Helgoland. I'll be watching on the way out. :o

Ya... never go to the east of Helgoland. Bad things await.

[frau kaleun]

Ya... never go to the east of Helgoland. Bad things await.

I've always steered clear of it altogether, although the last time I left Willy it was still pre-war so we went in close enough to get a good look at it (through the binocs, anyway). Once the war starts I don't get near it. No real reason to, I guess if were in really dire straits and had no way to make it to Kiel or Willy, but that's never happened.

[Jimbuna]

B etter not to go near it but the western shores are much more dangerous http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Wulfgar44]

That's interesting it's so dangerous. Made it in and out without a hitch. I'm in March of '40 at 92%. May not go back, I didn't want to finish my patrol so thought I'd get patched up there and then finish patrol. So far so good.

[127Tom]

Just dive down to 25 or 60 meters. Use silent running, turn away a bit...
Then you can lure the escorts after a few minutes using hydrophone info and ambush them with a torpedo hit.

[John Pancoast]

:) I uninstalled SH3 awhile back (insert mod name here including a personal mix) partly because the escorts are brain dead idiots that are easily defeated most anytime, anywhere.
Not meant as a knock on any mods; they've all done the best possible with what is available.

But if you're new to subsims I could see it being difficult.

[Aktungbby]

127Tom!:Kaleun_Salute: