Yay Raid!!

[Gargamel]

So i built this machine few years ago, and made a 500GB RAID 0 drive as my primary, 2 250GB drives. This past november, I picked up a 750 GB drive for cheap to use a backup drive.

Installed it, booted up the machine, and my Nvidia mobo software popups asking if I would like to add the new drive to my array, and then convert it to RAID 5. Why yes I would! Lost 500gb of usable space, (as each drive can't be over 250g), but the RAID 5 makes using a backup drive a moot point.

Well 2 days ago, one of the 250g drives failed. This has forced me to order 3 1 TB drives to replace them all, but the computer is still running, and I can easily migrate each drive into the array, albeit slowly.

Yay 2 TB RAID 5 FTW!!!

[longam]

Raid is a wonderful thing for reliability and up time :up:

But remember to have a plan for disaster recovery...

[Jan Kyster]

...the RAID 5 makes using a backup drive a moot point.I'm not sure how to understand that bit :oops: but if you mean backup is now a thing of the past, I would say you're heading for disaster. :D

One day... Murphy's law... lightning... self!... :nope:



But as said - not sure what the quoted phrase means.

[Gargamel]

Ahh...

I bought the 750g drive to be used as a backup drive, in case one of the 2 250's failed, but since it easily incorporated the 750 into the raid, converting the RAID 0 into a RAID 5, it made MY need for a separate backup drive moot. Obviously there are instances where separate independent drives are needed, but I'm not one of them.

When I get the 2 TB drive up and running, I will use the 750gb drive as a back up of my important files and such.

[Jan Kyster]

Phew! Thank you!

I'm too easily worried on others behalf... :D

[Gargamel]

Just noticed that i ordered 3 SATA2 drives, since the standard is supposed to be backwards compatible, and I'm throttled in other areas anyways, I shouldn't see a huge performance hit should I?

[Arclight]

Performance hit? Mechanical drives are completely incapable of saturating sata2.

Might wanna make sure you have sata3 board and drives if you go SSD though.

[Gargamel]

IF I could afford 3 1 TB SSD's, I would.

[Arclight]

I bet. :haha:

Not like you really need it though. To be honest, if i might make a suggestion; maybe get a little faster drives. Don't think the 1TB ones are particularly fast.

[Gargamel]

budget budget budget. This was a steal at 3 tb for $120. Open box from newegg.

[Tessa]

Ahh...

I bought the 750g drive to be used as a backup drive, in case one of the 2 250's failed, but since it easily incorporated the 750 into the raid, converting the RAID 0 into a RAID 5, it made MY need for a separate backup drive moot. Obviously there are instances where separate independent drives are needed, but I'm not one of them.

When I get the 2 TB drive up and running, I will use the 750gb drive as a back up of my important files and such.

RAID 5 is by design fault tolerant and its own backup. Unless you have an instance where 2 drives either fail simultaneously, or the second one fails before you have a chance to replace the first you data is pretty safe. I would love to be able to backup my SAN to tape, but tapes are still plain too expensive in large sizes.

From the sounds of things it looks like you're using the RAID controller on the motherboard? If so, be carefull that if your board dies you'll need to get the exact same one, or one with the same exact chipset so the new controller can read the disk indexes to figure out the disk mapping.

I bet. :haha:

Not like you really need it though. To be honest, if i might make a suggestion; maybe get a little faster drives. Don't think the 1TB ones are particularly fast.

On my Raid array I only have 500 gb drives, I wouldn't consider using TB drives on a Raid 5, it'll wear em down too fast and they aren't fast unless you shell out the money for a enterprise class one.

The fastest IO I can get out of mine (a Dell Poweredge with a 6 port RAID 64 bit card using 5 WD RE5 500gb drives) is only sustained read or write of 65 mb/sec. Unless you use SSD, Raptor or 15k drives there's no way you'll need to worry about IO being a bottleneck as they'll never come close to their full 3 gb/sec rating. Now that the perpendicular magnetic storage is starting to trickle down to consumer level products these massive disks won't be such a liabilty to overheating or burning out prematurely.

[Arclight]

Ya I had 2x250GB Western Digital RE drives in a RAID0 for a while. Ran out of space though, just replaced it with a fast 640GB one. Don't think the benefits to general gaming are really that pronounced, can't say I notice the difference at least.

*why RAID5 btw? I get it for the reduncancy, but you lose performance gains. Unless you're running a server, I would really suggest RAID0.

(And that you not put critical data on it, should it fail.)

** nvm, had my raid levels mixed up

[Tessa]

Ya I had 2x250GB Western Digital RE drives in a RAID0 for a while. Ran out of space though, just replaced it with a fast 640GB one. Don't think the benefits to general gaming are really that pronounced, can't say I notice the difference at least.

*why RAID5 btw? I get it for the reduncancy, but you lose performance gains. Unless you're running a server, I would really suggest RAID0.

(And that you not put critical data on it, should it fail.)

** nvm, had my raid levels mixed up

For my OS drives on my desktops I all use Raptor's as the system drive, then usually put in a 250gb or 200gb spare one to use as extra space. Everything is done on my server (which is a real server, not a desktop with a server OS and the server label slapped on it), right now it's got 5 out of 6 channels on my raid card used with 500gb drives. In the past have already had 1 drive fail so the parity saved my data while I got a replacement drive and rebuilt the array. If I had the money I'd switch to SAS and get all 15k drives for performance; granted it would get even louder in that room than it already is (though it has been nice this winter helping to passively warm the rest of my place up).

Data is the most important thing, and hardest to replace. A raptor with a cheap equal sized sata drive to mirror it along with the RAID 5 on the server is pretty much bullet proof. If I had a couple TB drives I would make backups onto those every few weeks, otherwise just count on the integrity of the aray to do its job and be sure to make images of my OS drives every onece in awhile in case they do take a dive.

[Gargamel]

Why raid 5 over raid 0?

The built in back up. I'm not a performance user, I can wait a few extra seconds for something. I'm still waiting for my new drives to arrive, and if I still had my raid 0 going, this disk failure would mean I wouldnt be talking to you guys, I would be assembling allmy original disks to reinstall. As it is, the system is much slower, but still usable. The nvidia software will allow me to hot swap the new drives, all i gotta do is plug each one in and let the software do the rest.

[Tessa]

Why raid 5 over raid 0?

The built in back up. I'm not a performance user, I can wait a few extra seconds for something. I'm still waiting for my new drives to arrive, and if I still had my raid 0 going, this disk failure would mean I wouldnt be talking to you guys, I would be assembling allmy original disks to reinstall. As it is, the system is much slower, but still usable. The nvidia software will allow me to hot swap the new drives, all i gotta do is plug each one in and let the software do the rest.

Are sure you don't mean Raid 1? If one disk in a Raid 0 array fails you loose everything since the data is split between the two drives. Don't think I clarified this, but Raid 5 is only for the data, not the OS. The OS drive should be fast (depending on its use) I would put a raptor 10k drive in there, if I was really worried about it failing I'd mirror it with another same size drive in a Raid 1 configuration.

1 250gb 10k raptor drive is going to smoke a pair of 1 TB drives in a Raid 0 configuration. My OS drive (be it my server or my desktop) is always the fastest drive in terms of IO, all my data is kept on the Raid 5 array and just accessed via mapped drives. It's cheaper and easier to keep adding more 500gb drives to the Raid array when I need more space, put the new drive in the carriage and turn it on; expand the array and wait for it to re-write the parity and I'm good to go. Long as 2 drives don't fail simultaneously or consecutively my data is quite safe. Keep in mind my Raid array only has data on it.

[Gargamel]

I may be using the wrong terminology.

Originally had a RAID 0, two drives, with seperate data on them, function as one drive, for performance.

Few years later, afraid of losing my data to a failure, I buy a bigger drive to be a backup drive, but the software lets my plug it into the array, and convert it to Raid 5, negating the need for me to use it as a backup (for insurance against drive failures).

While I would like a HS drive (a 128gb or bigger SSD would be my preference) for my OS and have a large data drive with it, that's just not an option right now.

And adding a new OS drive would be such a pain, as I would have to port the OS to the new drive, but keep all the data on the old one, and not lose my installs. Just not worth it.

[Gargamel]

Booooooo

Just after I get my "My Documents" folder backed up on a seperate IDE drive, another Raid drive failed, destroying the array. I was about 2 hours from migrating to the new array 2. :nope: :wah:

[Gargamel]

So I sit down to do the rebuild, and it turns out I have to install the Raid drivers via floppy drive, and floppy only during the XP install process. OK fair enough, expected this from when I built the machine few years ago.

I find an old floppy drive, cable, can't find a power cord, so I have to hack one out this computer, patch it with a plug, etc etc. Go to plug it in. The flat cable's pins don't line up. My mobo has pin 3 pulled, while the cable has pin 2 blocked. WTF.

Can't find the original cable i built it with. WTF.

grrrrr.......

[Jan Kyster]

This beats TV... http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/smilies/munching_out.gif







Are you sure you can't use an USB stick instead of floppydrive?

[Arclight]

Dunno, don't think the XP install supports it. :hmmm:

What you can do though, is make a streamlined disc, with the drivers already on it. Should be able to use Nlite (http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/OS-Enhancements/nLite.shtml) for that, and you'll never have to worry about it again.


So, download the drivers and unzip them (in case they come archived) in a desired location. Then download and install the Nlite application. When you start the Nlite application, you will be asked to provide the location for the Windows installation package. Insert the genuine Windows Installation CD into the CD drive and, inside the application, select the CD drive letter.

To insert the SATA drivers within the installation package, you need to have it saved on the HDD. Hence, when the warning window appears click OK and select the destination folder for the files to be saved. Make sure that the destination partition / HDD has enough space to store the contents of the installation CD
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Install-Windows-XP-On-SATA-Without-a-Floppy-F6-47807.shtml

[Gargamel]

Oh ty, I'll try that before going out to the store to day to buy a new $2 cable, and spending $4 in gas to get there.


Good side to all this, in my research for working on the RAID's, I found the solution to my laptop problem which had left it MIA for the last 6 months. woot.

[Jan Kyster]

nLite is an excellent tool. :up:

Used it way back for a trimmed down XP with all drivers and most essential software installed. Worked like a treat.

A new complete unattended install took less than 10 minutes...

http://www.msfn.org/board/forum/89-nlite/



Of course you may consider upgrading to Win 7? :D

Now I have an image of my system with all software installed and trimmed to my likings/settings and a re-install will take less than 7 minutes...!

[Gargamel]

Hey thanks for the Nlite idea... to be honest.. that ****ing rocked.

Saved me a whole headache of troubles.

Course I pulled a super rookie mistake in the process.

Waited 6 hours for the 3tb's to format, then I installed windows, very streamlined with Nlite, only had to hit enter once. Had a flash drive all ready to go with my drivers and such.

Windows boots up finally, I go to install my first set of drivers, and it spits an error of "Not enough room on C:, cannot unpack".

errr..... wut?

So I check.

Yeah...

I forgot to unplug my card reader from the internal USB, so um yeah... it installed windows on the J: drive!!! :damn::damn::damn::damn:

Quick format this time around, up and running in 20 minutes. Woot!

Disc saved and put aside.


So I hoped you enjoyed that last final episode, and the popcorn, Jan. :P

[Gargamel]

AND IT CONTINUES!! So I plug in the IDE 250gb drive I was using as, well I'm not sure, I had an extra drive so it was in the machine... I backed up the My docs folder to it at least... But now.... the BIOS at post is seeing something there.. but not a drive... it lists it as xxxxxxxx on the post screen.... too tired now... going to bed... will kill smurfs tomorrow.

[Jan Kyster]

:hmmm: the plot thickens....

Don't you have to define each drive in your RAID-BIOS? As: these two are in RAID, this one is "single" etc.?



http://mondomagazine.net/tvvg/grouchy.jpg And yeah! Blame the smurfs... http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/smilies/biggrin3.gif

[Gargamel]

Normally yes, but this is an autodetected IDE drive.

[Gargamel]

Sigh.... helps to plug it back in......

:damn: :haha::har::rotfl2: