Have you sunk an Elco class?

[WH4K]

Those Elco-class torpedo boats are annoying. Three of them jumped me in my Type IIB earlier today (well, December 1939 in game terms). I nearly got killed to death. That's the last time I investigate a fast-moving warship contact on the surface in daylight.

Since I use GWX 3.0, I didn't find out until my refit that I only had 39% hull integrity left when I finally got away from them. Yikes.

Has anyone managed to sink one of those little bastards? I found that I was simply unable to get into a good firing position. Even if I had been able to out-turn them underwater in my dugout (hint: not going to happen), speed was a big problem. They were moving so darned fast that I had no chance to calculate the inputs for the TDC anyway. They were maneuvering around such that the solution would have been obsolete as soon as I clicked, "Fire."

About my only chance against these guys would be to catch them at night, get in a couple of good hits with the deck gun (which would require having a deck gun), and then maybe shred them with the Flak cannon before they machine gun me to death.

[VONHARRIS]

I have learned the hard way not to mess with them in GWX3.0
When I was using the vanilla version they could be easily sunk with the AA guns.

[Capt. Morgan]

.. I nearly got killed to death. ....

I hate it when that happens.


I always thought the Elcos weren't equipped with hydrophones. I just assumed they couldn't hear me and submerged. It has always worked so far, but I give the little jerks a wide berth anyway.

I've never torpedoed one, never tried, but if they are just steaming in a straight line, and you've a spare electric torp - it might be worth a try. I once torpedoed a sanpan in SH4. Not worth any tonnage, but it did fly up about a hundred meters in the air.

[Gerald]

One should be cautious, because their efficiency fire may cause damage to your hull,and in most cases,you dive to avoid problems,unless weather or other factors are at your side

[kapuhy]

To paraphrase the title from neighbouring thread - why bother attacking Elcos? They're simply not worth the effort. Their tonnage is negligible, they're not (or, at least, I've never seen them in this role) protecting big fat merchants, their sinking won't make the headlines or grant you any awards.

Only situation when I would consider attacking an Elco is in self defence - if one came out of the fog 500 meters away in shallow water, for example. In this case I would opt for deck gun and AA guns (torpedoes are right out against alerted ship of that size and speed).

[CherryHarbey]

To paraphrase the title from neighbouring thread - why bother attacking Elcos? They're simply not worth the effort. Their tonnage is negligible, they're not (or, at least, I've never seen them in this role) protecting big fat merchants, their sinking won't make the headlines or grant you any awards.

Only situation when I would consider attacking an Elco is in self defence - if one came out of the fog 500 meters away in shallow water, for example. In this case I would opt for deck gun and AA guns (torpedoes are right out against alerted ship of that size and speed).

Agree with all of this.

Only reason I could see for trying to sink one, is if you play SH3 as in an arcade thrill a minute style. I don't so, trying to sink one is (for me) completely pointless.

[ediko]

Don't mess with the buggers, those AA's they got can eat through you're boat alive and god forbid you have any crew on deck when they spot you, the poor sailors are pretty much dead. Just dive as fast as you can and never look back, I did try to sink the PT boat once.... lesson learned the hard way :dead:

[Sailor Steve]

The Americans called the Mosquito Boats for a reason. They bite, and they're very hard to swat.

On the other hand, one of the things that annoys me about SH3 is that the ELCO was strictly an American boat, and was used only in the Pacific and the Med. The British used their own home-grown Vosper boats.

[mookiemookie]

The Americans called the Mosquito Boats for a reason. They bite, and they're very hard to swat.

On the other hand, one of the things that annoys me about SH3 is that the ELCO was strictly an American boat, and was used only in the Pacific and the Med. The British used their own home-grown Vosper boats.

Another thing that annoys me is that they can't use their main weapon - torpedoes.

[WH4K]

I was wondering about that. I rather expected to get a torpedo straight up the snoot. Since there were 3 of them, they could easily have done it.

[Missing Name]

Yes, I have sunk PT boats, but when I didn't want them annoying me in some harbor.

I torpedoed one once. It flew a good hundred meters away, but it was a real waste. Guess how I engage them otherwise.

[krashkart]

Elcos aren't worth shooting at. Too small and too fast to justify a torpedo, and too nimble and well armed to engage on the surface. I just dive and slip away from them. I've sunk a few out of pure luck, but not without having my Uboot (and some gunnery crew) thoroughly shredded in the process.

However, they do have a tendency to catch fire in really bad weather. :haha:

[Tessa]

They can be extremely annoying but generally harmless if you dive in time. Don't remember the circumstances that led up to it but one pissed me off so much I did torpedo it. It's results are somewhere in the funny screenshots thread, they aren't very aerodynamic. The result is akin to a wizard casting a fireball at a horsefly, once that torpedo hits it erupted into a blaze of fire travelling very fast and landed when one of the buildings in the harbor got in its way. Complete waste of a torpedo, but the result was worth it; I fell down laughing from the event cam.

[bookworm_020]

I've sunk a few Elco's in my current career, most of the time it was the fact they turned up and tried to interfere with me finishing of a merchant.

Using a deck gun on them at ranges over 1000m is a waste of ammo as they move too fast and are too small to have a good chance of hitting them. The deck gun is best used with open sites under 1000m, your flak can also do good damage to them as well. 20mm seem to do OK, the twin version are best, the quad 20mm is too unwieldy. The 37mm is good as long as it's automatic.

If you can knock out the forward gun position you can avoid a lot of damage. If you have no reason to fight them, don't bother. From 43' even if you sink them, they can call in aircraft and other ships (if nearby) which just makes your situation worse!

[wicked_panda]

Although i try to avoid these little bastards, sometimes i get forced to engage them, mainly because i am surfaced charging batteries, loading an external torp or trying to put a bullet in the head to that poor little deer (or hog) i hurt earlier. Sure i can always disengage the prey and crash dive, but once they start to shoot at you, suddenly becomes a matter of EGO or self esteem.

What hurt can do to you the sailor of the atlantic:arrgh!:, the commander of a Kriegsmarine U-boat, what hurt can do that piece of crap with a couple of 20 mm machine guns??:06:

When i realize i am being attacked by an ELCO boat, i use the 20 mm and rarely the single shot 37mm, trying to aim to the forward MG and if you are lucky enough and blow up that MG the battle is yours, this way you force them to show the side, if thay are close enough (i mean 100 to 300 yards), you can shot few rounds with your main gun, but sometimes i try to stick in destroying the MG´s.


That little bastards don t worth the 20 points of renown so is up to you if you want to figth

[frau kaleun]

What hurt can do to you the sailor of the atlantic:arrgh!:, the commander of a Kriegsmarine U-boat, what hurt can do that piece of crap with a couple of 20 mm machine guns??:06:

Uh... punch a hole in your pressure hull? It only takes one.

[Obersteuermann]

I once got set upon by two whilst playing as the SS Deutschland with the warships mod. Spent a good half hour chasing them round my ship blasting at them with the main turret armament.

Eventually I did get a good square hit on one that blew him backwards, but it was out of all proportion to the number of rounds I fired at him.

If I'm in a U-boat and one of those little bastards pops up, I crash dive straightaway. They're just not worth it!

[Mouftic]

If you encounter one (or three) just dive. They dont have passive or active sonar.

Now if you wanna see something funny, sneak up on one, torpedo it and watch it FLYYYYYYYYYY!

:-j

They always manage to land right back keel down.:hmmm:

[King_Zog]

Interestingly U-boat hulls seem to be a lot tougher than you'd think. This is from an Admiralty Intelligence report on U-boats published in 1944 in regards to machine gun and cannon fire from aircraft:

"The blister tanks are probably vulnerable to .5 machine gun fire, but even very severe damage to blister tanks will not sink a U-boat. The only vital target for cannon or machine gun fire is the guns' crews and bridge watch."

"There is, however, a case on record in which leaking oil from saddle tanks, penetrated by an aircraft's machine gun fire, was a contributory cause in the subsequent sinking of a U-boat by a surface vessel."

It makes no mention of machine gun or 20mm cannon fire being able to penetrate the pressure hull.

I have however read of one U-boat being forced to return to base after having a large hole blown into its conning tower by a hit from the 57mm cannon of a Mosquito Tse Tse, rendering the boat incapable of diving.

You can read the rest of the report here... it's very detailed and interesting stuff.

http://www.uboatarchive.net/CumulativeEdition.htm

PS As for Elco boats in game, I once sunk three of them with the AA gun in the GWX single mission 'Evacuation'. They didn't really cause me any problems in the mission, although in a campaign I'd probably just dive and avoid them, as I wouldn't want to risk losing one of my bridge crew and they'd just call in reinforcements if any enemy surface or air units were nearby. So not really worth it.

[frau kaleun]

rendering the boat incapable of diving

That's the crucial issue. Whether or not an attack succeeds in sinking you, if you can't dive your effectiveness as a combat u-boat is too severely compromised to do anything but head for home... and hope that another more lethal attacker that you can no longer hope to evade doesn't find you before you get there.

[timmy41]

Sunk one that found me passing north of england i think a long time ago. luckily the weather was nice and the deck gun got a square hit early on so there was no big issue. normally avoid them though.

and random screenshot
http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t98/505thtimmy41/SH3Img25-4-2010_163519_296.jpg

[Fish In The Water]

If I'm in a U-boat and one of those little bastards pops up, I crash dive straightaway. They're just not worth it!

Agreed...

No sense playing around with small fish, especially when you've got a lot more to lose than you do to gain. Better to pick your battles wisely and save yourself for the big ones! :yep:

[Missing Name]

I actually think PT boats should have some form of ASW. The US often replaced the aft tubes with racks of depth charges. I am attempting to find more detailed info, but I'm at a loss...

The best "use" I can describe is in the 1943 propaganda movie "Crash Dive." In the beginning, a PT boat sinks a "German U-Boat" (actually, an American sub was used for underwater shots) with 3 charges and no hydrophones. Then again, this WAS propaganda.

[maillemaker]

I have sunk them, though I think it was in stock SH3. I have also had them sink me, when I just for fun "duked it out" with one.

You will take so much damage fighting one that even if you win you'll be heading back to base for repairs.

Steve

[King_Zog]

I actually think PT boats should have some form of ASW. The US often replaced the aft tubes with racks of depth charges. I am attempting to find more detailed info, but I'm at a loss...


The British also designed and built anti-submarine versions of their fast attack craft, with the torpedo tubes removed and depth charge racks and launchers added in their place, they called them Motor Anti Submarine Boats. Some were fitted with full ASDIC sets, others used small portable listening devices which pretty much entailed a crew member lowering a microphone into the water.

I don't know much about them, or how successful they were in this role. Later in the war their weapon configuration was changed to focus on a much heavier gun armament, and their designation was changed to Motor Gun Boat. In this role they were primarily used to protect coastal shipping from German Schnellboots and rescue downed aircrew.

As for PT boats in the US Navy you could check this link out. Somebody has scanned the 'Motor Torpedo Boats Tactical Orders And Doctrine' US Navy manual of 1942 and put it up on Scribd. And from a quick glance through it it seems PT boats could fit depth charge racks and launchers in various configurations.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/12980817/1942-US-Navy-WWII-PT-Boat-Tactical-Doctrine-134p

edit: Here is an interesting excerpt:

"1207. In harbors and shallow water areas, where specially small type enemy submarines have operated, motor torpedo boats have proved effective in combatting them. In this connection, motor torpedo boats are at present the only vessels which can launch depth charges in shallow water and successfully escape damage from their explosions."

[Snestorm]

Only once.

I was at the end of my osygen, and had to surface.
Just knowing that they are in the neighborhood, is generaly more than enough to keep me down.

I surfaced (not too far from Gibralter).
An Elco came at us out of nowhere.
Knowing that USN PT Boats were made of plywood, my intension was to present my bow at flank speed, and ram if possible.
I only had the deck gun manned to save my BM and watch crew from being machine gunned.
(Ja. I saw the gunner and his guys as being more expendable).
The gunner showed me that he was NOT expendable, by taking out the Elco.
We got our oxygen and went back "down under" very shortly before the expected DDs arrived.

We were super lucky that time, but Elcos still scare me, and I sure don't want to try it again. The no longer "expendable" gunner got a promotion, and newfound respect from me.

[wicked_panda]

Uh... punch a hole in your pressure hull? It only takes one.

:haha: SARCASM !!! :arrgh!:

LOL

[frau kaleun]

:haha: SARCASM !!! :arrgh!:


http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50335_159594236188_5560_n.jpg

Withering disdain'll cost you extra. :O: