Radio Contact spd/crs missing

[Shockwave74]

Hey peeps,

I am going crazy here and I wanted to ask if it's me or something... maybe a setting in the UI or game setting?

I thought the radio contact (grey blip) would be given an estimate of the course and speed for interception planning but there's none.

Here's the pic taken from another thread:

http://img64.imageshack.us/img64/8840/contactreport3.jpg




So as you see I selected the blip in the Channel but the black text in the top does NOT show crs/spd. There's no way to intercept this contact. How do you guys plan the interception on radioed contacts? Does this have to do with DW's UI? It looks like this UI is very popular (and it just deserves to be!) but if this critical info is missing what's the purpose of the radio?

Without these infos I simply can't play SHV... That's why I really think something's wrong with my game or I am missing something and it's a CRITICAL something... it must be me. Any clues?

[Trevally.]

Hi Shockwave,

I have been watching for the issue with contacts missing info.

When you get a BdU report of a contact, you are getting info. See your ss here - http://img254.imageshack.us/f/contactreport1.jpg/

When you see contacts with no info - I think it is reports from your radioman. If contacts are detected by sensors on your boat, you get possition only. This changes when contact is closer than set in your options.py settings. I think default is 8km. See the next few pages from here http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=166093&page=154

[Shockwave74]

Trev, if you remember the issue from the other thread, from which this SS comes from, you'll see I am basically by Edinburgh (you can see the course line).

The contact selected on map is in the Channel and it has no infos. It CAN'T be coming from my boat's sensors i am many light years away from those 2 contacts. Unless the radioman can pinpoint the location of an enemy target which still makes no sense even if it was closer, considering without course and speed (even if just estimated) any interception plan is impossible.

What exactly are those blips on the map, the one in the Channel and the one by the waters of London? Neither had infos though I selected and took screenie only on the one in the Channel.

[Trevally.]

Look at this first pic -

http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5267/87376869.png

I then went into options and changed the 8km range to 800km.
See pic 2

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/3569/11462273.png


And here is a contact outside my set 800km - see pic 3


http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/6774/31104508.png


Now I'm not saying you should change your settings to 800km, but this is a way to get what you are after in the game:up:

[Shockwave74]

What I can see is that with your current mod setup you can see the trail of the ship.
By extending that line you know the estimated course so you don't really need to increase to 800Km for that detail. However, what's missing is the speed. In no case you were given one. Course without speed is useless again.

What puzzles me is the Long/Lat. This gives you an EXACT location. How does this work is it kept updated (like removing the Fog of War so to say) ?

The fact is, that if you use the notes, just above the log you can know the speed and target type. The problem would be solved if I used that but that's too much information given away so I won't.

Trev... even if I removed the grey blip and added the ship's trail that doesn't solve the problem with speed information missing and if I allow the notes just above the log it's too EXACT so it's no good either.

It's odd but with locked targets you have all these information speed included and with estimated course and speed.... it should be done exactly the same with reported targets. Besides, if the WO/XO can picture an estimated course via scope (regardless of the AOB you set) that's just basically the way it really was. The captain is not supposed to do all by himself.

[Trevally.]

None of these contacts were from a BdU message.
So it must be from radioman detecting radiowaves from said contact:06:

If I click on a BdU radio report - I get est of speed and course.

For the tails - I didn't have "no shapes etc" added to mod list. That was just the mod load I had when testing. The same info would be there with the blobs.

[TheDarkWraith]

What I can see is that with your current mod setup you can see the trail of the ship.
By extending that line you know the estimated course so you don't really need to increase to 800Km for that detail. However, what's missing is the speed. In no case you were given one. Course without speed is useless again.

What puzzles me is the Long/Lat. This gives you an EXACT location. How does this work is it kept updated (like removing the Fog of War so to say) ?

It's odd but with locked targets you have all these information speed included and with estimated course and speed.... it should be done exactly the same with reported targets. Besides, if the WO/XO can picture an estimated course via scope (regardless of the AOB you set) that's just basically the way it really was. The captain is not supposed to do all by himself.

the game does not make a contact's speed available unless it's a radio contact. The only way you'll get speed info on them is to calculate the speed using the speed finder or have the navigator help out with multiple range readings. It's not I imposing this limitation it's the game. When you click on a contact the game makes the following info available to a script:
- range
- heading (course)

That's it. All the rest of the information has to be derived. So what I do is scan for new contacts at a regular update interval. When a new one is found I put a timestamp on it. Why do I do this? Because the game doesn't let me know if the contact is visible on the map or not. I have no clue if you, the player, can see it or not. So I treat it as a 'magical' contact report that came in with missing speed and course info (only current lat and long supplied so it can be placed and shown on map). Radio contact reports are a different story because they contain speed and heading info in them.

In order to get the course and speed and lat and long to be updated in real time the contact has to be selected or locked and within the range specified in the options file for updating contact info.

[Shockwave74]

Thanks to both of you (as usual LOL!) for the clarifications.

I figured it was a MUST to have a blip on map provided with estimated crs/spd in all cases not just with BDU contacts.

I figure nobody in his sane mind would report the location of a ship without those 2 details. They are CRITICAL details without which the report is totally useless.

DW you speak of a timestamp added to the map... is it that function you were developing and that I had mentioned needing a little while ago in the other thread?

How can you derive information on a contact that is hundreds of Kms away from you without radio updates? :D

The way I see it, it would be a GREAT addition to the game if ALL radioed contacts were treated the same, which is, exactly as the BDU does. Do you think you can mod a function such as this?

[TheDarkWraith]

Thanks to both of you (as usual LOL!) for the clarifications.

I figured it was a MUST to have a blip on map provided with estimated crs/spd in all cases not just with BDU contacts.

I figure nobody in his sane mind would report the location of a ship without those 2 details. They are CRITICAL details without which the report is totally useless.

DW you speak of a timestamp added to the map... is it that function you were developing and that I had mentioned needing a little while ago in the other thread?

How can you derive information on a contact that is hundreds of Kms away from you without radio updates? :D

The way I see it, it would be a GREAT addition to the game if ALL radioed contacts were treated the same, which is, exactly as the BDU does. Do you think you can mod a function such as this?

the timestamp is the contact spotted info (date and time). That contact spotted info tells you when the contact was added to your contact 'list'.

I can derive information on any contact because the game lets me get the distance from the sub to it at any time. I can also get the angle from the sub to it at any time (bearing). I can also read it's current heading at any time. But that's all the informtion I can get from a contact. I can't get what kind of contact it is (warship, merchant, etc.), I can't get if it's friendly or neutral.....the devs made very little info available about a contact.

It doesn't make sense to treat all contacts as BDU radio contact reports. For one, you don't have speed info on the contacts and thus you'll never be able to make them 'look' like a radio contact report. If you notice I don't update the course, speed, or lat and long of a radio contact report in real time. The information shown is based on when the radio contact report was first received. The only time a radio contact report's contact info is updated is when you have it in your scopes and it's selected or locked up.

[Shockwave74]

Can you make it possible for the radioman to indicate the source's estimated spd/crs of a highlighted target on the navmap?

(on the radio log perhaps)

[Trevally.]

I think the ones without speed info would not show at all in stock game.
So these ones are extra contacts the UI shows.

Speed is not known by game so cant be posted. (I think)

[TheDarkWraith]

Can you make it possible for the radioman to indicate the source's estimated spd/crs of a highlighted target on the navmap?

(on the radio log perhaps)

I can't get speed info. Game doesn't give you that info. The only reason I get speed info for the radio contact reports is because I extract it out of the text from the radio contact report.

[Shockwave74]

Good God... never mind.:wah:

[Shockwave74]

Let's see what we can salvage from this situation...

... what exactly do you do when you are out on mission and you are reported a contact?

In case of BDU you go to map, mark, and use the crs/spd data to plan the interception route.

What do you do instead with radioman contacts without any sort of data?

[Trevally.]

Let's see what we can salvage from this situation...

... what exactly do you do when you are out on mission and you are reported a contact?

In case of BDU you go to map, mark, and use the crs/spd data to plan the interception route.

What do you do instead with radioman contacts without any sort of data?

In TDW UI v6.2 you will be sent random contact reports from within a radius you can set in you options.py

If unknown contact (you are told heading) is in a shipping lane (see colour draggable map), I assume its merchants. If its heading is, say north south, I assume its warships.

If I want to chase merchants, I will est their speed (max 10) and get myself in their path.

I will always aim to get well infront of them.

I then head in their direction, dipping under for sonar contact.:up:

[Shockwave74]

See the problem is that unless you're lucky to happen to find a convoy (which means it's basically the convoy that finds you) we have the following problems:

1) BDU contacts are most likely out of your operating range though these reports are finely corroborated with data so intercept route is sometimes possible (and I used to be pretty successful to have the AOB90 at dusk/dawn with UZO in SH3, meaning these reports, with the annexed data are CRUCIAL).

2) The SoundMan sometimes can't hear crap even if there's a merchant 2Km away.

3) Visibility often renders the WO a bad option for ship sighting.

This translates in days and days of solitude at sea without any target while we know there were plenty of ships at sea.

My point is that nobody would report a contact in a way DIFFERENT from the way BDU contacts work, however, if there's no way to get spd/crs from those radioed blips, AMEN, nothing we can do about that.

What's different in TDWUI6.2? You are given the crs of navmap blips? I suppose this mod is in beta stage? Can I test it? :D

[Trevally.]

With 6.2

If radio message asks for status and you send report there is a % chance BdU will scan an area around you boat and inform you of a contact location and heading.

You can set th % chance in options.py - default is 20%
You can set the scan range also - default is 450km

[Shockwave74]

I know that's why I report as often as I can, however your latest explanation on how to read Long/Lat changes everything. I thought the readings would always be read from left to right and up to down. :DL

My concern was about the blipped contacts on map that come without ANY information at all. I find them so useless I'd be tempted to totally disable them. I don't remember right now if such contacts display any info in the pop up directly above the log.

I am interested in knowing what you personally do with these contacts in particular and not with the others. Obviously you don't have a crs reading, so you don't know whether they're going NS or EW... and you haven't got a spd reading either... so?

[Trevally.]

Before I started using this -


If radio message asks for status and you send report there is a % chance BdU will scan an area around you boat and inform you of a contact location and heading.

You can set th % chance in options.py - default is 20%
You can set the scan range also - default is 450km


I had my crew set to know ship heading in the options.py at a range of 400km.

Speed can be guessed