Question about u-boat type VII B/C model

[brackenan]

Don't get me wrong I love how realistic the game is, especially with the GWX3 mod. However, I have noticed a small error in the u-boat type VII and IX design. It has nothing to do with GWX, it is simply an error from when the game came out. The bridge (turm) of these u-boats is slightly incorrect in design. On the aft section of the bridge (i.e. where the flak guns are), the section should be lower than the forward section. I have done months of research into the German U-boats to prove this. In the pics I've seen it appears that the aft section of the bridge should be about 10-12 inches lower than the forward section. Has anyone else noticed this? It may be my perfectionism coming out but it kinda bugs me lol! Is there anyone out there who knows how to redo the model of the subs? What programs can be used? If I knew what programs that can be used I would gladly learn them and fix the error and post them on the site.

Thanks,

Andrew

[Gerald]

Hello! In a curious question, how it disturbs you it's wrong, feel the boat unstable?

[brackenan]

I've also noticed that some uboats had the step and others didn't. Perhaps even the railing is too high. In all the vintage pics I've seen, it appears that the people standing in the forward section are taller than the people aft. Perhaps it is the steps they had on the inner side of the bridge that show the people taller. Not quite sure. However I have read somewhere on the internet that they had to "step down" onto the aft section of the bridge.

[brackenan]

Hello! In a curious question, how it disturbs you it's wrong, feel the boat unstable?

No it's not that I guess I'm just one of those weirdos that like things to be accurate lol! It's a "physical" error, not coding or gameplay. Sorry for the confusion!:cool: And don't get me wrong I'm not putting the game down or the uboat model itself. I'm somewhat of a perfectionist lol!

[Gerald]

Not at all, I can myself feel that some things are not right, so you have a correct idea what you think best, but of course there are mods and the ability to alter some, :yep:

[GoldenRivet]

help me to understand the situation.

the bridge, where the watch crew stands... are you suggesting there should be about a 10 inch step down between that portion and the first flack turm?

if so what evidence suggests this to you?

thanks

[Jimbuna]

Hi brackenan

As GR has already posted....some photographic support would be of help.

No worries matey, there is not a problem/conflict here http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Mittelwaechter]

It often looks like the crew on the conning tower deck is one step up in comparison to the crew in the wintergarten, but there were some "steps" inside the 'conning breast wall' to climb a little up and have a better look (even onto the hull and deck).

This is only a model, but it shows the conning tower deck to be at one level - without a step down - to the wintergarten. Look at the guys inside the breast wall - i.e. the red bearded sailor and the Kaleun - they are at one level with the crew in the wintergarten.

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/Marine/Krabbenhoeft/U-558_Krech.html

[GoldenRivet]

There are several types of conning towers.

In the stock conning tower you typically first receive there is no step down between those two areas you describe. (See 2 images below)

http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/misc/ships/robertoubc.jpg

(model)

http://www.uboat.net/gallery/u505/set_g//u-505-upper-guns.jpg

(actual boat)

there appears to be no step as you are describing, though im interested in seeing if this is what you are talking about or not.

what is pictured above is the conning tower deck where it joins the first Flak Turm.

there is however a very pronounced step between the first flak turm and the second flak turm in boats that are so equipped... see pic below

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2666/3924124731_85e9897bd0_z.jpg

many people have seen images of the conning tower and have noticed how the watch crew is a good 10 inches taller than the men standing around the flak gun...

this is simply because of the wooden fold up steps that the watch crew has the option of folding down and stepping onto... these steps are about 10-12 inches above the hard deck.

[mookiemookie]

Not sure. I don't see a step here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/33/Bundesarchiv_Bild_101II-MW-3676-27,_St._Nazaire,_Uboot_U_552,_Besatzung.jpg

[GoldenRivet]

http://www.ipmsdeutschland.de/Marine/Krabbenhoeft/U-558_Krech.html

of curiosity to me - which is probably explained in the Deutsch text - why is the u-boat model shown flying an American Flag from its periscope and a kriegsmarine flag from its flag pole?

[Mittelwaechter]

The model builder refers to "a famous picture of U-556" - I am not aware of this picture.

Maybe he mixed it up with U-505 - captured by the US Navy.

here:

http://www.uboatarchive.net/U-505Photo1.jpg

or here - flying the german flag too...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_K7GPwGN0E08/S7nUpon-JSI/AAAAAAAAABM/wrpo7VabE34/s1600/Captured+U-Boat+7.JPG

[Mittelwaechter]

Sorry - he refers to U-558 - with no famous picture either.

Can't edit my posting above for some reason...

[Madox58]

It's my understanding some U-Boots flew the American Flag to
signify the sinking of an American Ship while on Patrol.

[Gerald]

No distant thought at all...

[Tessa]

I found a couple of good images of what I think you're trying to articulate. One I've got in a book which has the archive #, but not being able to read German I wasn't able to find the picture in their online archive (its Bundesarchiv MW369110) photo of u-74.

Though this picture shows exactly what he's talking about:

http://www.naval-history.net/Photo12GerU203MQ.jpg

Unless the people standing on the conning tower are all a foot taller than the ones standing on the flak deck there is the 10" gap.

[GoldenRivet]

There are fold down wooden steps there that elevate those standing on the foredeck of the conning tower by about 12 inches





read prior posts

[Madox58]

And it has been determined from other threads that there's a scale issue somewhere in SH3 and on.
The Crew in the forward parts of the Turms is not on those ledges.
But appear as if they are.
So the crew models are to big!
Does anyone understand the MASSIVE amount of work needed to correct?
It's not worth it in any way, shape, or form!

[GoldenRivet]

And it has been determined from other threads that there's a scale issue somewhere in SH3 and on.
The Crew in the forward parts of the Turms is not on those ledges.
But appear as if they are.
So the crew models are to big!
Does anyone understand the MASSIVE amount of work needed to correct?
It's not worth it in any way, shape, or form!


Yup, you're right.

[Jimbuna]

Yup, you're right.

No distant thought at all...

Yep...so belay the latter post :know:

[brackenan]

So anyone know what program can be used to tinker with the uboat models? Also, I think i've figured it out. There is a slight illusion created within the game. As someone mentioned earlier, I was mistaken about the step down onto the wintergarden. I think what threw me off were two things: the wintergarden railings are too high, and (as someone mentioned) the forward crew models are higher than the rest. Also, it may seem the conning tower is just a wee bit too tall; perhaps (in virtual measurement) roughly 8-10 inches. I could've sworn I read and saw a pic where there was a step down, but perhaps the pic had a shadow (can't find it again) or I misunderstood the wording. Thanks guys for clearing that up!

[Gargamel]

I bet some of the vet's here can direct you to some threads in the Mods forum for some good answers. It'd be neat to see this as a future mod.

[Mittelwaechter]

It's my understanding some U-Boots flew the American Flag to
signify the sinking of an American Ship while on Patrol.

Why should they do so? Do you think it was that special to sink an American ship that they felt particularly proud and stored an US flag for these occasions? :DL

Have you ever seen a picture showing this? Maybe with a Union Jack or some other nationalitys flag? I'm not aware of this. They had the small pennants for sunken tonnage but as far as I know they made no difference what nationality the ships were.

[Delareon]

Since im playing GWX and only have testet WAC and LSH to find out which mod i want to choose there might be a chance of error with my following statement but anyways:
Im quite sure that in WAC the conning tower is a bit bigger because the crew doesnt look that tall there and also your own camera sits a bit lower.
Maybe you should take a look at this modell/mod.