Hahaha! EU now to ban energy saving lightbulbs...?

[Skybird]

German article:
http://www.welt.de/finanzen/verbraucher/article11767506/EU-Politiker-wollen-Energiesparlampen-verbieten.html

Due to the quicksilver in them, the German Bundesumweltamt warns of the high risk of intoxication when these light bulbs break, causing a room climate that exceeds legal limits for quicksilver by more than a factor of 20. German EU parliamentaries now demand thew commission to ban these bulbs from the market in short time, combined with a warning that their use should be avoided in children's areas and households with pregnant women from immediately on.


„Ich erwarte von der EU-Kommission, dass sie das Verbot von Glühbirnen unverzüglich außer Kraft setzt“, sagte Reul – und forderte umgekehrt, ein Verbot für die Energiesparlampe in betracht zu ziehen: „Außerdem muss die Kommission überprüfen, ob die als Alternative vorgesehene Energiesparlampe aufgrund der nachgewiesenen Gesundheitsgefahren überhaupt noch vertrieben werden darf.“ Der CDU-Politiker warf der EU-Kommission vor, dass sie „getrieben vom Klimaschutzwahn Symbolpolitik betrieben hat, die weder dem Klimaschutz noch der Gesundheit der Menschen dient“.

I expect the EU commission to immediately cancel the prohibition of classic light bulbs", said Reul - and demanded in return that a ban on en ergy saving lightbulbs should be considered: "Additionally the commission has to check whether energy saving lightbulbs should be allowed to be sold anymore, due to the proven health risks." The (conservatrive) CDU politician accused the commission, that "driven by climate protection craze it runs just symbolic policies that neither serves climate protection nor the health of the people."

I say to this just this: one of the young daughters of a good girlfriend of mine broke such a lightbulb during playing in early summer. At that time I just had told the mother of the risks involved, but she did not believe it. The breaking lightbulb was not noticed by the parents immediately. Since then the kid is in doctor'S treatement, with breathing problems, and a form of blood intoxication that is medically proven, they tried to detox her repeaytedly, with smaller and smaller remains showing up in her blood and liver scans.

The danger obviously is not just a theoretic but a very real one. Now imagine a pregnant mother inhaling quicksilver gas (its a gas, due to the heating of the light bulb), and what that would mean for the embryo or fetus.

EU policies - all too often nothing more than geltungssüchtiger, unausgegorener Aktionismus (= attention-craving crude actionism).

[Gerald]

Sure, they contain a lot of things that are not in any way is good, but a ban I think so little of....

[Tribesman]

What a non story.
So "EU now to ban lightbulbs?" is really "German politician wants EU to ban lightbulbs"

Due to the quicksilver in them
Mercury levels in compacts are covered by the same regulations that cover mercury levels in other lightbulbs. If they exceed the levels they are already banned.

I expect the EU commission to immediately cancel the prohibition of classic light bulbs", said Reul
Now there is a story, Reul is incredibly stupid.:up:
Its not a big or surprising story as it is proven throughout the world hundreds of times every week that politicians can be incredibly stupid.

[Skybird]

Sure, they contain a lot of things that are not in any way is good, but a ban I think so little of....

It would be enough to allow regular light bulbs, and have an information campaign on the massive exceeding of critical treshhold levels. Too many people simply b elieve what the officials are feeding them, and that when the things are being sold they "must be safe". But that is wrong, and the examination of the German Federal Envrionment Office shows by what huge degree it is wrong. The problem indeed is lacking knowledfge of people, and the risks in an "child-infested" :) envuironment. Children play, they play enthusiastically, and throw things. Me too broke lights once or twice, when I was a small boy. And ther the health hazard is a very serious one. The quicksilver is not a drop on the floor, it is a gas that fills the air and gets inhaled. See my friend's child, what the conseqeunces can be, since almost half the year the detox her. It is no fun for the kid, and a worry for the parents.

I do not even mention the electgrosmof problem of these things, and the broken promises on their lifespan, and the constant degrading of the brightness over the lifespan. This is just about a direct and severe health risk to playing kids, due to quicksilver. The allowed treshholds are exceeded by a factor of twenty, the German office found. Mind you: it is a governmental office, no private lobby or third party institute running separate interest agendas. Governments do not like if their own offices contradict the officially wanted policies.

[danlisa]

An excellent suggestion.

I will petition the EU to bring back the natural gas lamps of the early century or maybe even candle light, it's the safest option considering the threat of quicksilver. No wait, that would mean an increase in carbon monoxide........

Bureaucratic a-holes.:nope:

[Gerald]

I know, but current technology energy saving bulbs that use other methods, but it costs .... :hmmm: I remember the discussion about just this for about 5-6 months ago, and you posted the thread,What,came up with then...

[VipertheSniper]

I can't even begin to tell how much this Mr. Reul angers me.

It's got nothing to do with what he wants to do. I don't like energysaving bulbs. But flourescent light tubes contain mercury too, and they are around much longer than energy-saving bulbs, and he needed a report from the Umweltbundesamt to tell him, that a broken flourescent light will release mercury steam/gas? I learned that in chemistry, and I guess people 20-40 years ago learned that too.

[Catfish]

Hey, this is really important, usually the EU threatens the world with permanent debates ! :O:

Greetings,
Catfish

[FIREWALL]

Yeah bring back gas lamps and candles. Lets see :hmmm: When your house blows up or burns down that will be a health hazard.

So then they ban houses and you all live in mud huts. :har:

You guys are letting the Lunatics run the Madhouse. :haha:

Hell . They'll have you guys living in the "Dark Ages" next. :nope:

[Skybird]

The comparison with flourescent lights I do not see as valid, because in all my life I never have seen in reality or film that people were operating these inside children'S rooms, living rooms, sleeping rooms, but only in working places, bureaus, cellars. They make a kind of light that almost nobody wnats to have in the place were he spends free and relaxation time, also, you needed big and unattractive lights to run these fluourescent light bars.

But with these bars being build in mini format and calling them energy-saving light bulbs, they became (by size) maintainable in regular lamps and in the private living sphere as well. That's why now has become a problem what was not a big problem before.

LED bulbs become better and better in brightness and light colour quality, but they still are so damn expensive. Not before they drop to the price level (or below) that of now energy saving bulbs, I would consider to use them, and only if they have become bright enough and give a nice warm yellow-whit elight. Actually, some (spot-) models already transmit a light colour that I cannot differ from old classical light bulbs or 20W halogen spots. But 30 Euros and more for such models is way too much. Drop it to 6-8 Euros, and I will start to consider them. Not earlier. Different to energy-saving bulbs, I fully accept LED lights to be a light solution being superior in all regards to classical light bulbs.

On bicycles you already see the superiority of LED lights over classic bulb lights, also with pocket torches. They were both too dark years ago, had a bad colour-quality, but now outshine the earlier technology by far. They have also become affordable now.

[Oberon]

http://www.raytownfire.com/images/burning_candle.jpg

What? With rising energy prices this will probably be the only answer before long!

[VipertheSniper]

What I'm getting at is, that the principle on which they work was known to include mercury, and that principle was known for a long time. But obviously it either isn't common knowledge or it was ignored in favour of industry. Energysaving bulbs are much longer around than the gradual ban on conventional light bulbs, yet noone it seems, knew of the dangers before that ban was even considered? Come on, really? While it's great to see that someone makes a stink about this whole issue it reeks of artificial outrage, because that was, or atleast should've been known for years.

[Tribesman]

The comparison with flourescent lights I do not see as valid, because in all my life I never have seen in reality or film that people were operating these inside children'S rooms, living rooms, sleeping rooms, but only in working places, bureaus, cellars.
So whats the validity remaining of what you have seen in your life when typical places for flourescent lights over many decades would include schools, youth clubs, sports grounds all of which are full of children, add in hospitals which of course have a habit of having both children and pregnant women in them.

Energysaving bulbs are much longer around than the gradual ban on conventional light bulbs, yet noone it seems, knew of the dangers before that ban was even considered? Come on, really?
It is just a faux outrage story Viper, the problems were well known just as they were well known with the older lights, knowledge about the problems with mercury and difficulty getting rid of it are as old as the studies that made people stop using it as a common medicine.

[TLAM Strike]

The comparison with flourescent lights I do not see as valid, because in all my life I never have seen in reality or film that people were operating these inside children'S rooms, living rooms, sleeping rooms, but only in working places, bureaus, cellars. They make a kind of light that almost nobody wnats to have in the place were he spends free and relaxation time, also, you needed big and unattractive lights to run these fluourescent light bars.

Schools use Fluorescent light tubes and have lots of children. :03:

[papa_smurf]

Im sure one person will really love this - Mr Euro hater himself; Nigel farage of UKIP:har:

[XabbaRus]

Skybird is right, LED is the way forward but I disagree with his fervour against low energy bulbs.

I have had the light bulds in my rooms for over 2 years now and they are working fine.

Also in my line of work we have been routinely putting flourescents in living spaces with no complaints.

As for the danger of kids breaking them. Overstated. I have two very boisterous kids and they have never broken a lightbulb.

[Jimbuna]

What? With rising energy prices this will probably be the only answer before long!

You forgot sunlight and moonlight :DL

[VipertheSniper]

It is just a faux outrage story Viper, the problems were well known just as they were well known with the older lights, knowledge about the problems with mercury and difficulty getting rid of it are as old as the studies that made people stop using it as a common medicine.


Do I hear an echo or something? Because I could've sworn I'd written something along those lines.

[Tribesman]

Do I hear an echo or something?
An agreement perhaps.

As for the danger of kids breaking them. Overstated.
Overstated and confused, it goes with the mixing of the levels for prolonged exposure to the gas which is short and the long term removal problems of the solid residue to try and make a scare story.

[Reece]

Skybird is right, LED is the way forward but I disagree with his fervour against low energy bulbs.

I have had the light bulds in my rooms for over 2 years now and they are working fine.

Also in my line of work we have been routinely putting flourescents in living spaces with no complaints.

As for the danger of kids breaking them. Overstated. I have two very boisterous kids and they have never broken a lightbulb.
Maybe an over reaction but my grand kids broke one whilst throwing a large rubber ball around, at the time I never gave it a thought, just replaced it, but it does make you think!:hmmm:

[FIREWALL]

Anyone here remember the story of Chicken Little ?

[bookworm_020]

They banned incandescent light bulbs here in Australia last year. you can use halogen or CFL (compact florescent light bulbs) instead. Some of the CFL's can give off a soft light, but they do have a habit of fading over time and also taking awhile to warm up to full strength.

[XabbaRus]

The ones I have are quick, as quick as a normal bulb and the light is good.

I do agree that on balance the olde bulbs gave off a better light but LED is coming down in price.

[Skybird]

LED spotlights (like the halogen spot lights with 20W and GU4 socket) already are available in similiar brightness and light colour like said halogen spots, I saw earlier this year in an electronic shops. But 30 bucks for one piece simply is too expensive. But i have good hopes for the future.

I run two energy savers in hidden lamps where their inferior light quality is not noticable, all other lamps here are 35% energy-reduced halogen lamps. Halogen is okay. Ordinary classic light bulbs I do not have in use since many years - long before the ban started in the EU. I use many dimmers, too.

[Tessa]

German article:I say to this just this: one of the young daughters of a good girlfriend of mine broke such a lightbulb during playing in early summer. At that time I just had told the mother of the risks involved, but she did not believe it. The breaking lightbulb was not noticed by the parents immediately. Since then the kid is in doctor'S treatement, with breathing problems, and a form of blood intoxication that is medically proven, they tried to detox her repeaytedly, with smaller and smaller remains showing up in her blood and liver scans.

The danger obviously is not just a theoretic but a very real one. Now imagine a pregnant mother inhaling quicksilver gas (its a gas, due to the heating of the light bulb), and what that would mean for the embryo or fetus.

From the sounds of things it sounds like the parents noticed the kid having problems fairly soon after it happened so it wasn't fatal. This is truly sad and made worse by one that is already sick and I do feel sorry for her being a victim of a real accident.

What I can't tolerate is parents that don't watch their children; because of their lazyness new safer products of all kinds have to be created that are safe to eat. I feel no pity for kids that have brain damage from eating lead paint, what the ******* are you doing eating paint in the first place (I know the natural tendency though for a child to put anything in its mouth) and where were the parents that should have been there to stop them from doing such a blantanly stupid thing in the first place?

It angers me to no end that cleaning products/materials are constantly having to be changed to something less hazardous; which usually works only half as well as "the old stuff". Because some parent who thinks the TV will raise their children for them decides to drink a bottle of lime cleaner (or any other cleaning agent), and gets sick and possibly dies (I'm not callous to the death of the infant, but the complete lack of any supervison by the parents was the cause of the incident), then sues the company for 50 million dollars and forces them to change their product to something that is well sub standard to what it already was.

There is a plethora of items in a house that can easily kill a child (or an adult for that matter), as long as they are treated properly with care and respect the danger is minimal. Accidents do happen (like what happened to your friend) and are sadly a statistical probability that will eventualy happen to someone regardless of age. When I was a little girl I broke a glass thermometer in my mouth once, it was one of the common ones filled with Mercury. My mom who was there the whole time looked up from her watch every few seconds at me and when she did had me spit it out instantly before any Mercury came oozing out. After going to the ER (just to be safe) aside from some glass that was still in my mouth (which was a major nuisance, mom told me not to swallow and keep my mouth open as much as possible until we saw the doctor) I was fine. Carpet had a stain on it when we got back home but was an acceptable casuality in lieu of what happened. Since my mom was there watching over me she did what parents are supposed to do - pay attention and attend to their children!

[Gerald]

Then several years, I have reduced my electricity bill by 25% by using these lights, and they have a very good endurance, almost as good as a woman, :O:

[Jimbuna]

Now all you need do is work on building up the stamina :DL

[Gerald]

Now all you need do is work on building up the stamina :DL :har:

[STEED]

The best thing the EU can do is to ban itself for life. :D

[Gerald]

The best thing the EU can do is to ban itself for life. :D You may send a wish to Santa Claus, he is fully capable, :o

[STEED]

You may send a wish to Santa Claus, he is fully capable, :o

That drunken old fart! :haha:

[Alex]

As time goes by, I like your country more and more, Skybird. Seeing how things go in here, I may even consider moving to Germany.