n00b needs tutorial help

[Kai Lae]

Having some trouble with the convoy tutorial, mainly I seem to get detected always before making an attack. The convoy is moving to the NE while I'm to the SE. Based on what I know of how things work on previous sims for sub tactics, usually what you'd do is an end around run to get ahead of them into a optimal firing position, however I can't seem to do it right. Could someone provide some advice? Just trying to sort out the basics here.

[RodBorza]

Look in this thread:

http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=146795

It's very nice. Look out for Rockin Robbin's Instructional Videos. They sure help a lot.
Also the other stickys have a lot of info that you may find very useful.

And,

Welcome Aboard!

[I'm goin' down]

Close attack:

Assuming your boat is ahead of the convoy, at a range of 5,000 yds from its lead destroyer, submerge to just below the thermal layer. Before doing it, make sure you have plotted the convoy course and its speed. Then, with silent running engaged, head towards the location where you want to launch the attack. During this time, set torpedoes, etc. You can open the torpedo doors when you return to periscope depth, as they won't open below a depth of approximately 100 ft. Watch the sonar lines on the Map screen or Attack Map screen and observe when the lead destroyer is close to passing or has passed your bow. If it has not spotted your boat, come to periscope depth, using the S key to blow ballast and surface quickly. Scan for targets, as they will be bearing down on your boat if they are on course. If successful, your boat should have penetrated the convoy perimeter and it will be able to fire a salvo before being attacked by any of dds/escorts. This technique can get you close the convoy's course, but not much time to set up manual targeting, so I would use the point and shoot methed which is well explained in the Dick O'Kane tutorial, or use gutted's Solution Solver program.

Armistead has another technique, which I cannot explain because my boat is always spotted. I must be doing something wrong.

Long range attack (my idea of long range is > 2,000 yds.)

Alternatively, stand back a couple of thousand yards from the convoy's course and use RocknShoals constant bearing technique for firing at long range. It is more accurate with high speed torpedoes. Alternatively, use gutted's Solution Solver program. Using his program requires you to pause the game, but it is a terrific program, and you can fire accurately at any angle. Alternatively, use the John Cromwell techique.

As above, I refer you to Rockin Robbins Skipper's Bag of Tricks sticky.

[Dogfish40]

Welcome aboard!
By the discussion, I'm going to assume you're playing the stock/convoy intercept tutorial in the training missions. Along with what 'I'm goin down' was saying, as you can try that as it's a great way to learn early. The tutorial gives you several things against you (It's kind of a tough one for being a stock W' no mods) one, you're in fair weather in broad daylight. Two, it's a bit later in the war when the IJN DD's were getting better at intercepting subs. So, I started taking some advice I was reading in these posts with some adjustments considering the situation.
First, on my first approach at roughly 4 to 5000 yrds,slow and silent, (in these conditions) I let off a torpedo at one of the closest DD's, then dive, flank speed and get to my 90 degree position to get at one of the merchants, using the attack map. Hopefully, the DD's will come running to my old position, leaving a hole in the formation. The other thing that usually happens is the convoy will somewhat slow and change direction, so be ready to adjust for the directional change. Half the time, in that tutorial, I wound up sinking a DD and miss the Merchants (have to be honest) but if I can get to the second set up in time, I can get two or so fish in one of the merchants. Then get the heck outta' there.
I don't think they give you too many torpedoes on that one so you half to be careful not to run out of forward torps. Hope this helps.
Good Hunting
D40:salute:

[WernherVonTrapp]

Welcome abroad.:D Just keep at it mate. As a tip, the convoy attack (practice mission) starts you off at a pretty good intercept angle. Not much else needs to be done other than to adjust your speed to avoid being detected. You will need to turn in to the convoy at the last minute so, just watch out for that. When I first started, I played that mission over and over again until I not only sank all the merchants, but all the DDs too. Well, actually, one merchant got away badly damaged because I ran out of ammo.:smug:
Only then did I decide that I was ready to start a career. But, that was me and everybody is different. All the advice you've already been given should light the underwater path for you. Now, go get 'em tiger.:03:

[I'm goin' down]

As you can see, there are several techniques. None fits every scenario. Convoys can be tough, and TFs, because they may be moving at a blistering pace and are almost always well protected, are tougher.

Skippers who are playing at full or 90 percent realism and who claim to sink everything in sight are probably exaggerating, and if they are to be believed, they are out of my league.

[Kai Lae]

I've watched a few of the vids in the links, they seem very informative. Problem is that more than a few of them are over my head. Meaning, it's like watching brain surgery while you're learning first aid. That's cool looking but I have no real idea what is going on. One thing I do notice is that on the map display on a lot of the vids it has a compass overlaid on the center of the boat. I don't have that...I suspect it's modded. I'd very much like to have that how do I get it? I did try to download and install RFB (which probably would have something cool like that) but every attempt I have tried to make it work has failed. Again I must be doing it wrong but I don't know enough how to make it work.

For the scenario involved I've been running at a very high realism level; I don't want to learn bad habits I'll need to counteract later. One thing I'd like some info about is how to correctly work the radar. From what I've seen, you can ping targets with your sonar for range, but I haven't been able to see how you can get hard ranges for the radar, which is one of the things radars are good at. Basically wanting some general tips for the starting n00b (or as we say on the boat, nub) because at this point about the only thing I'm aware of is my ignorance on even what to ask :)

[I'm goin' down]

The compass is not displayed in the tutorial apparently. It is a 3,000 meter compass tool. It can be dowloaded from Neal Stevens' sticky in the Mods forum re Popular Mods, etc.

Don't get ahead of yourself. I would not be too concerned about sonar at this point. Sonar is useful for manual targeting, but not so important as you learn the other basic attack techiques (excluding a sonar only attack.)

I just played the convoy tutorial. The training mission is simply too difficult for virtually all novices unless they use auto targeting, and even then it takes some work. The convoy changes course twice, and those are major course changes. Also, the convoy has air cover at the beginning of the mission, making moving on the surface difficult during that critical period. While I was dealing with the planes the convoy changed course. Note: I play with map contacts on, but otherwise at full bore realism. You only have four forward to,rpedoes in this mission--not good for a novice.

Here is how it played out:

I ran ahead of the convoy, submerging 3 or 4 times to avoid air attacks, and got into position for a broadside, approaching on the port side of the convoy. Then the convoy changed course swinging to starboard, so I had to set up a second time, again planning for a port side attack. However, the convoy chaged course a second time, this time heading towards its port, so I had to make a hard turn hard to starboard, slam my boat into gear and set up once more (!@#$%^&!), this time for a starboard side attack. When that was ready, I sat twiddling my thumbs for 30 minutes as the convoy was only doing 5.5 - 6.0 kts. (A message said the convoy was doing 5 kts., but that did not check out when I timed it using the 3 minute rule.) When the lead dd was at 0 degrees, it must have picked me up on radar at range of 1,000 yds because it turned 90 degrees, directly towards my boat. I dove to 170 feet, just below the thermal lawyer. The dd never found me. (A perpendicular angle to a dd steaming directly at your boat yields a small profile and is more difficult to detect according a turtorial posted in the Skippers Bag of Tricks sticky thread.) I moved into firing position, planning an O'Kane attack with a 10 degree lead angle, firing at 350 degrees on the scope while hoovering at periscope depth. I waited another 5 minutes for my targets to arrive. (Yawn.) I planned to split my four forward torpedoes between two targets. And they call this a practice mission? It is a bust your chops mission!

My first two shots missed. I guesstimated the first target's range at 1,500 yds. I fired slow torpedoes (Nos 3 and 4). I did not follow the torpedoes.

The second target crossed the firing point at 800 yds. I must have calculated speed wrong as the first torpedo struck right at the target's bow, ahead of where I aimed, and the second shot hit target amidships but was a dud. The second target did not sink. I should have listened to the radio report that pegged the convoy speed at 5 kts. That would have slightly decreased the torpedoes' lead angle, and the first shot would have probably hit amidships.

Here is what I suggest for you. Forget the tutorial. Concentrate on single merchants for awhile.

Start by downloading the Dick O'Kane practice mission. You can practice off the coast of Santa Barbara. Watch the O'Kane videos. You can find both in Skipper's Bag of Tricks thread, and I believe the practice mission is listed below Robbins' singature. You acitvate it like any mod. You do not need sonar, etc., except to locate the general direction of the target. Play with map contacts enabled. Learn how to plot course and speed. And practice the O'Kane method, as it is the easiest of all of them. You will be able to sink ships once you master it!

Next, learn the constant bearing technique or the Cromwell technique. Then you can go in a number of different directions. You can take up manual targeting, and if you do, activate the Easy Aob mod. When you sink your first enemy ship via manual targeting, you are on your way. You will have to learn how to use the compass tool on the Nav Map, and how to use the Attack Map screen to implement an attack using manual targeting. Suggestion: study Hitman's tutorial on Manual Targeting at 100 Percent Realism -it can be downloaded from Neal Stevens' mod sticky in the Mods forum. Or, try a Sonar Only attack. Rockin Robbin's and Werner Sobe's tutorials on that subject are very good.

Getting good at this sim is not a walk in the park. And when you think you are getting good, blow your mind by visiting the MoBo forum and downloading MoBo (a manuevering board created by aaronblood) and Nisgeis' 3D TDC mod. When you are satisfied you are an accomplished skipper, tackle Celestial Navigation (it's beyond me), and navigate by the stars in the game sky. Check in with us in a couple of years and let us know how you are doing!

Oh, yea. Good luck. Welcome aboard, captain.

[I'm goin' down]

You need to download and activate JGSME. It will enable you to load mods. There are some good posts on how to load mods, and if you ask, you will get help. There is a tutorial re JGSME in Neal Stevens' sticky in the Mod forum.

You can activate the 3,000 meter bearing tool and the O'Kane tutorial for starters.

[Kai Lae]

I have and have installed JGSME. It seemingly works. However, when I tried to download RFB for instance, when I install it, it seemingly installs but when you run the game it then spits out a pile of warning boxes saying that it is missing a huge number of files. I posted about it in the RFB thread but so far no one has really been able to help me, so I don't know what to do.

As for sonar yeah well I don't really care that much about it at this point but radar is a bit different, since it is seemingly the best way to gain information about contacts at long range. Again there's no way that I can see to get exact range info from the radar, other than looking at the scope and taking a guess at it. Also you have what looks like a semi waterfall display scope and I'm not sure what that's good for - determining contact size maybe?

I'll look up some of the mods you've suggested and try to install them, perhaps they'll work if they're simple.

[Dogfish40]

One more thing I forgot to ask you. Is you're game up to at least 1.4? If not please download the 1.4 patch and get up to that patch, the game runs and looks a lot better.
If you keep listening to guys like 'I'm goin down' and a bunch of other mates here at this forum, they will help you make this game your favorite subsim.
With some patience, you'll do just great. Bit by bit, you can add on mods to suit your taste and play, but for now, if you're running at least 1.4, the game will play without the old "bugs".
Good Hunting!!
D40:salute:

[I'm goin' down]

That should fix your mod problems. It costs around 10 bucks on Amazon.

I use TMO. RFB is okay but not as difficult. RFB and FOTRS are both good, or you can play stock with Webster's mod fixes. I have never used Webster's game fix mod (GFO), but Webster's individual mods are first rate, so I suspect GFO is too.

I would stay away spendinn to much time on radar. It can tell you target bearing and if you have a radar lines mod, a rough distance. The only really good radar mod is Nisgeis' 3D TDC. It is complex and take hours to master. John Channing posted a thread in the mod forum that is a tutorial for his mod. It has about 15 steps +/_. With it you can sink ships using only radar, attack at any feasible distance and in rain, fog, or snow (does it snow off Guadalcanal?), but each attack will take a LONG time.

[Kai Lae]

That should fix your mod problems. It costs around 10 bucks on Amazon.

Are you talking about JGSME? It was a free download...oh and my game is 1.5, since picking up the whole nine yards was cheap.


I would stay away spendinn to much time on radar. It can tell you target bearing and if you have a radar lines mod, a rough distance. The only really good radar mod is Nisgeis' 3D TDC. It is complex and take hours to master. John Channing posted a thread in the mod forum that is a tutorial for his mod. It has about 15 steps +/_. With it you can sink ships using only radar, attack at any feasible distance and in rain, fog, or snow (does it snow off Guadalcanal?), but each attack will take a LONG time.

Reason radar interests me is to determine course. It should be very easy to get an exact course, based on change in position over time. Currently trying to find out where I need to go is mostly a stumble and hope you get it right affair, so there should be a better way.

As for guadalcanal, pretty sure it doesn't snow. It does snow in the sea of O though.

[I'm goin' down]

Since you you have 1.5, most of the mods will work. yes, activate them with jgsme.

If you want to track course, watch rockin robbins video re sonar only attack. If you want to use radar, then Nisgeis' 3D TDC mod is the path. John Channing has a thread on the 3D TDC mod. Both threads can be found in the mod forum. The 3D tDC is one a complex mods, but it will track course. You can hit a target in a rain storm with zero visibilty if that answers your inquiry. Of course, you can use the 3D TDC with maps contact enabled, but it is designed for those brave enough to play at 100% realism (i.e. map contacts disabled.) With map contact enabled, you do not need radar as you are able to chart course with the compass tool on the Nav Map.