Newbie here

[DeepFried]

Hi! I just started playing SHIII yesterday and to be frank i'm struggling with some of the elements of torpedo targeting... now I know there are guides around here and i've read a couple but there are still some things that confuse me no end, hope someone can help.

First i'm playing the vanilla patch 4 (i think) game on steam, I have checked all the realism boxes except map updates (when i'm less confused i'll probably turn this off too).

These are some of the issues that are confusing me:

1) AoB - I understand what it is and what it does but what I don't understand is how the notepad AoB setting interacts with the TDC nor how (or why) the periscope bearing has anything to do with it.
This lack of understanding is probably the reason that the last aft torpedo I fired went at a 90 degree tangent to the solution I thought I'd plotted :doh:

2) Where should I start with this game? Do I just jump straight into a career? Ideally I'd like some practice intercepting lone cargo ships and practice with firing solutions, I've just been practising in the academy torpedo training up to now.

3) What is the best angle to attack a ship from if you're following behind? I can nail them ok if I get ahead and lie in wait at a 90 degree tangent to their track (which takes ages to setup) but whenever I fire at them from alongside or behind my torpedoes either miss or seem to just bounce off!

4) Sonar, what are the basic rules for picking up and tracking ships by sonar? I often seem to find my sonar officer picking up ships miles away but refusing to detect a ship right in front of us.

5) And finally what mods do I want? I don't want to mod too heavily and I normally play games vanilla tbh but I want to enhance realism (and possibly graphics). I have an ATI card, a powerful computer and a widescreen monitor (is there anyway to get the game to go widescreen or change the resolution?)

Sorry for all the questions but any help appreciated! :o

Edit: I should probably say i've not played a sub or naval sim before so its all a bit new.

[desirableroasted]

Hi! I just started playing SHIII yesterday and to be frank i'm struggling with some of the elements of torpedo targeting... now I know there are guides around here and i've read a couple but there are still some things that confuse me no end, hope someone can help.

First i'm playing the vanilla patch 4 (i think) game on steam, I have checked all the realism boxes except map updates (when i'm less confused i'll probably turn this off too).

These are some of the issues that are confusing me:

1) AoB - I understand what it is and what it does but what I don't understand is how the notepad AoB setting interacts with the TDC nor how (or why) the periscope bearing has anything to do with it.
This lack of understanding is probably the reason that the last aft torpedo I fired went at a 90 degree tangent to the solution I thought I'd plotted :doh:

2) Where should I start with this game? Do I just jump straight into a career? Ideally I'd like some practice intercepting lone cargo ships and practice with firing solutions, I've just been practising in the academy torpedo training up to now.

3) What is the best angle to attack a ship from if you're following behind? I can nail them ok if I get ahead and lie in wait at a 90 degree tangent to their track (which takes ages to setup) but whenever I fire at them from alongside or behind my torpedoes either miss or seem to just bounce off!

4) Sonar, what are the basic rules for picking up and tracking ships by sonar? I often seem to find my sonar officer picking up ships miles away but refusing to detect a ship right in front of us.

5) And finally what mods do I want? I don't want to mod too heavily and I normally play games vanilla tbh but I want to enhance realism (and possibly graphics). I have an ATI card, a powerful computer and a widescreen monitor (is there anyway to get the game to go widescreen or change the resolution?)

Sorry for all the questions but any help appreciated! :o

Edit: I should probably say i've not played a sub or naval sim before so its all a bit new.

You are going to get a ton of useful advice here (this is one of the most helpful forums I have ever seen). Our advice won't agree (it's a tough game), but I'll go first...

5) Learn the game first without modding up. The exception would be SH3 Commander, which mods on with no ill affects, and lets you manage your crew better and keep a record of your patrols.

4) Your hydrophone equipment detects best from the sides. Immediately in front or behind.. rarely.

3) From behind (or in front), I would use a magnetic pistol and set the torpedo for about a meter under. You will get some failures. And some wonderful kerplosians.

2) Jump into a career and play, Die. Rinse again.

1) Until you learn the game thoroughly, manual targeting may be a stretch.

Good luck and hunting!

[Mittelwaechter]

To your 'sonar' problems:

the hydrophone is a passive device to pick up audible contacts. The active sonar will be availible later in war. Depending on your speed, the weather conditions and the contact speed the range of your hydrophone version differs. Your hydrophone operator becomes better with experience, rank and higher decoration.

The basic hydrophone has quite big deaf spots in front and behind the U-Boot. The hydrophone upgrades minimize them.

As long as your periscope is up and/or you can see your next contact your hydrophone operator will refuse to report that contact. You have to lower it completely to make him call out the contact again.

If you ask for constant tracking of the contact, he'll continue to report even if you rise your periscope.

[Jimbuna]

Play the game stock/vanilla for a while until you become more proficient, then get a supermod, my choice would obviously be GWX.

http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/welcome.gif

[TarJak]

If you want a bit of practise do the training missions first before jumping into career. That's what they are for. You can revisit them as much as you like to let you try different things.

Don't go the whole hog with manual targetting until you've practised a bit with assistance on. Once you feel confident and getting a hit is easy with the helpers, then disable them one at a time and allow yourself time to practise until you are proficient with each one turned off.

Read up on the manuals a

If your goal is full realism with manual targetting, then GWX with MaGui is the way to go mod wise.

Wilkommen zu Subsim und Gute Jagd!:salute:

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

If you want a bit of practise do the training missions first before jumping into career. That's what they are for. You can revisit them as much as you like to let you try different things.
:yep:

The Torpedo Training mission sets you up with five targets, and you can practice submerged and surface attacks until you feel comfortable with it.

[DeepFried]

Hey thanks for the replies!

Ok so I jumped into a career and am doing patrols, but these are confusing too! What do the different colour contacts mean? (red, green, blue), I've been told to patrol a sector so do I have to stay in that sector or can I engage contacts outside of it? Do I have carte blanche to attack any ship or what?
Where do the contacts come from? they can't be my sightings because they are too far away, yet I have no record of receiving a radio message? is this Third Reich clairvoyance?

[Sailor Steve]

What do the different colour contacts mean? (red, green, blue),
Red: Enemy.
Green: Neutral.
Blue: Friendly.

I've been told to patrol a sector so do I have to stay in that sector or can I engage contacts outside of it?
You don't have to go there at all. In the game you earn renown, which you then spend on upgrades and better crew. You get some renown for going to your patrol grid, and some more for staying there the prescribed 24 hours. Some people figure that they can get more for going where the tonnage is than by going to the grid. Me, I follow real procedure and stay there for the entire patrol, which means I sometimes have very low scores, even the occasional zero.

Do I have carte blanche to attack any ship or what?
Yes. You get renown for sinking enemy ships, you lose it for sinking neutrals, and you lose a LOT for sinking friendlies; but the choice is yours.

Where do the contacts come from? they can't be my sightings because they are too far away, yet I have no record of receiving a radio message? is this Third Reich clairvoyance?
Yes. Actually it's presumed that you're getting reports from other u-boats or recon planes, but the game actually just throws them out there. There are mods that reduce the number of contacts, and that change how they are reported, but that's probably further down the line for you.

[DeepFried]

Right, I think I'm getting the hang of this now, just setup an intercept that worked perfectly. Unfortunately I did this before reading your post... so now I know that green in neutral :yep:

Anyway, if it had of been an enemy ship I could of blown its socks off!

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/9940/1stintercept.th.jpg (http://img703.imageshack.us/i/1stintercept.jpg/)

So thats 2 patrols and zero sunk ships :oops: I guess I wont bother patrolling the sector next time and just go straight for the shipping lanes (where ever they are!). :arrgh!:

[raymond6751]

Take your time and enjoy.

I wouldn't worry about staying at your assigned patrol zone, but it is worth a look anyway. The early targets are along the English Coast, East side. If you survive long enough or get a type VII then you have enough fuel to reach places like Liverpool in the Irish Sea and the Northern entrance to the Irish Sea.

The convoys in 1940-43 headed for those ports away from the Channel or the South of England. Incidentally, the South of England is a deadly place. Get past that and don't hang around.

[Axeman3d]

Me next....

I would play with Grey Wolves Expansion (GWX) installed right from the start, if for nothing more than the improved graphics and additional ships. It's just SHIII perked up, it doesn't make massive changes to the way you play anyway. You need nothing further for now.

Manual solutions on moving ships with no assistance require a fair bit of practice, start with the weapons officer doing it all and you just picking the targets and pulling the trigger. On a single ship it is do-able, but with multiple convoy targets it gets mental.

As for attacks, yes you are best to take the time to set up with a side on attack. End on shots are possible, but makes things more difficult for yourself. Also the impact trigger on torps only works reliably almost straight on. The more angled the hit, the more likely it will bounce off harmlessly. You can use magnetic triggering by firing just under the keel of the ship, theoretically much more destructive, but early torps are rather unreliable and as likely to blow up half way there as blow the ship in half.

Sonar issues have been explained, they're mounted on the sides so can't hear well directly front or backwards, particularly with your engines whirling away. If you want to hear well, go deep and go slow & quiet. You can upgrade to better systems later in the war, but you still can't hear behind you. That wasn't fixed until much later in the late cold war with towed arrays a mile behind the sub.

When on patrol I tend to head straight for the patrol grid, but make sure to submerge a few times a day and slow to a couple of knots to see if I hear anything nearby. Once I've got my 24 hours in the patrol grid done, I tend to go wait in the western approaches for convoys. Convoys to and from America have to go around Ireland to get to the British ports, so hanging around south or north west of Ireland you will eventually find one. Lone ships are good practice, but convoys have the big targets.

When attacking convoys you can fire a couple of eels at a couple of big targets, or fire off one each at 4 targets. I favour a single torp per target, and they either sink from the lucky shot, or more often they are slowed or go dead in the water. This means I just need to hang around till the escorts move off with the rest of the convoy before surfacing to finish them off with the deck gun. Easy pickings and saves torpedoes. Later in the war they are usually armed with their own deck guns, so it's a case of setting up an easy shot on a sitting duck.

[DeepFried]

Thanks for all the advice guys! its going well now I think, just finished my third patrol and a sunk two ships this time :woot:, a small merchant and a C2 Cargo, one in my patrol sector and one a sector west.

I went to the patrol sector and though it, got a medium speed contact a couple of sectors away which I intercepted in the next sector;was the small merchant, 2 torpedoes and it went down pretty fast. (was planning to use just one but I forgot to open the tube first, so the first torp hit the stern rather than the engine room)

http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/4618/1stkill.th.jpg (http://img830.imageshack.us/i/1stkill.jpg/)

I was heading back to my patrol sector and I got an aeroplane contact, crash dived and changed course, 3 depth charges but only the first was close, no damage. Got back to the patrol sector and picked up the C2 medium speed, intercepted and gave it my 3 other torps just to be sure, all three hit just behind the engine room and it goes down in about 15 seconds.

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/8080/2ndkill.th.jpg (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/2ndkill.jpg/)

All in all very happy, i'm ok with manual targeting now I think, its pretty simple once you work out what all the knobs do, still don't really see the point of the notepad though as it works perfectly just putting the AOB, range, and speed into the TDC directly.


Couple of questions though: Do the crew only get 1xp per patrol? surely that will take forever to promote them! Also I assume I need to leave enough fuel to get back to the starting port? I don't seem to actually need to go back to the port to finish the patrol like I did the first two times. And I assume that the radio qualification applies to the sonar post too?

[ShadowOps]

If you survive long enough or get a type VII then you have enough fuel to reach places like Liverpool in the Irish Sea and the Northern entrance to the Irish Sea.

Actually raymond, I have gotten to Iceland in unmodded SH3 in a Type II. So you dont really NEED a Type VII to reach those places. I dont mean to be rude or anything but I had to add my 2 cents.

[Madox58]

If I do get a chance to play?
I keep enuff fuel to return to Base.
I don't like the teleport option.

[Axeman3d]

I park next to the brass band and pretty nurses myself, I didn't even realise teleporting was an option. I always keep enough fuel to get home, and if a patrol is not going well I can stay out so long hunting that I need to turn for home purely for fuel reasons. Of course type VII and IX's have more than ample range for hunting in the Atlantic for weeks if you keep the speed at 10 knots or less.

[frau kaleun]

@ ShadowOps: Be aware, though, that if you ever take the plunge and go to 100% realism you will lose the option to teleport back to base from anywhere you happen to be. At that level you'll have to sail your boat to within a certain distance (I think it's 30 km but I'm not sure) of a base in order to get a "Dock at" option when you hit the Esc key.

[Jimbuna]

I park next to the brass band and pretty nurses myself, I didn't even realise teleporting was an option. I always keep enough fuel to get home, and if a patrol is not going well I can stay out so long hunting that I need to turn for home purely for fuel reasons. Of course type VII and IX's have more than ample range for hunting in the Atlantic for weeks if you keep the speed at 10 knots or less.

Teleporting back is for woosies....not toughened steel-like Kaleuns http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

I teleport back regularly when working/testing mods http://img142.imageshack.us/img142/2391/bubblegum21.gif

[Gargamel]

@ ShadowOps: Be aware, though, that if you ever take the plunge and go to 100% realism you will lose the option to teleport back to base from anywhere you happen to be. At that level you'll have to sail your boat to within a certain distance (I think it's 30 km but I'm not sure) of a base in order to get a "Dock at" option when you hit the Esc key.

Ahhhhaaaaaa... Is that why I just lost that option? I thought it was some latent mod finally kicking in. Hmmm... I may have to re-edit my realism down to 99%. After going from 100% HI to 81% after trying to navigate the Bergen Fjords on my return trip, I was really wanting that teleport. Had to sit out in t he bay for a day until the weather calmed.

While I will eventually get into manual targeting, I find that not having external cams to be quite boring. I do however, make visual contact for identification. Everything else is checked. I actually found the game to be more fun with limited fuel than with unlimited.

[Axeman3d]

I turned on the external view for the same reason, it can get a bit boring without it. Rather than look at the back of the helmsmens head I enjoy watching the escorts going through their drills and ships going up spectacularly. It's also nice to see you boat cutting through the sea sometimes, particularly with all the lovely mods added.

[Missing Name]

I actually found the game to be more fun with limited fuel than with unlimited.

Same. I am trying to see if I can get my IXB (IXC when available) to Batavia and back without stopping at a supply ship. Distractions aplenty, though.

Still only playing at 69% realisim. I teleport if I have given hope in trying to find a worthy contact, or if I have something else to do.

[Tessa]

Welcome aboard :arrgh!:

Good place to find single ships traveling alone is the Irish Sea. Pretty much anywhere in AM 5x you'll find some lone ships or a few in pairs. Then continue west once you hit AM 51, which will take you north of Ireland, a lot of convoys will comy through there. Since you're right in the heart of enemy territory beware of planes, they can easily sink your sub with a good hit or at least leave you with a real bloody nose if you don't dive soon enough (if you choose to engage aircraft, generally best to let the AI crewman do the shooting).

Another great area to sit and let the targets come to you is Gibraltor; you don't need to even enter the actual strait in order to find plentiful targets. CG 95 & CG 94 are high traffic areas, if you want to go fishing around there it's one of the few times that using the search pattern (or creating you own) will pay off. Many convoys' destination is Gibraltor so frequently will run into an entire convoy just a square or two out.

In the Northern approaches and farther West you'll frequently get reports of multiple convoys in your area, there might be two heading in different directions or perpendicular courses to each other. When possible, go after the convoy travelling slower (which will usually be around 5-6 knots). It makes it easier to catch up and intercept the convoy and can shadow them fairly easy if you want to wait until nightfall. The faster convoys usually move at 10-12 knots; which if you are able to plot an intercept course and make them come to you its no problem. Trying to catch up to a fast moving convoy can burn up a lot of fuel fast having to travel at full speed or faster depending on how far away it was when last sighted.

[DeepFried]

beware of planes, they can easily sink your sub with a good hit or at least leave you with a real bloody nose if you don't dive soon enough (if you choose to engage aircraft, generally best to let the AI crewman do the shooting).

Yes I found this out last night, a plane found me on my 4th patrol en-route to intercept a contact. For some reason I decided to stand my ground and man the flak gun but that didn't go too well. Gunner got the plane alright as it was burning but it still managed to make a pass and drop a bomb practically on deck. Everything was damaged and the hull integrity was at 20%, I lost a third of my diesel in a few seconds. Somehow the plane was still flying and coming for another pass so I panicked and hit the crash dive button, hull popped at 30m. Thus ends U-03 :(

[ShadowOps]

@ ShadowOps: Be aware, though, that if you ever take the plunge and go to 100% realism you will lose the option to teleport back to base from anywhere you happen to be. At that level you'll have to sail your boat to within a certain distance (I think it's 30 km but I'm not sure) of a base in order to get a "Dock at" option when you hit the Esc key.

Well frau, when I do go to 100% realism (I tried it a few times, didnt do so well :dead:) I will be sure to keep that in mind.

[Gerald]

:salute:

[Tessa]

Yes I found this out last night, a plane found me on my 4th patrol en-route to intercept a contact. For some reason I decided to stand my ground and man the flak gun but that didn't go too well. Gunner got the plane alright as it was burning but it still managed to make a pass and drop a bomb practically on deck. Everything was damaged and the hull integrity was at 20%, I lost a third of my diesel in a few seconds. Somehow the plane was still flying and coming for another pass so I panicked and hit the crash dive button, hull popped at 30m. Thus ends U-03 :(

When hull integrity gets below 40% you really have to be careful on how deep you dive; else exactly what happened will repeat itself. When my hull is that blown up generally only go down 1m per 1% to be safe. If you can go to at least 15-20m that's deep enough that ships can pass over you safely and won't damage you more.

While this isn't a fullproof method, it works for me 90% or more of the time coming out with no damage. Once you spot the plane (if you plan to engage it) slow down to 1/3 or less speed. When the plane begins its bomb run and starts to reduce his altitude slam the engines to flank and go hard starboard or port. You'll usually move out of position enough for the bomb to miss you as it'll drop behind you if you've done it right.

It can be easy to evade the bombs that way but there's really no good way to avoid their straffing runs. Using the same technique usually will come out without getting hit ~ 50%-60% of the time. While straffing won't annihilate your hull like you experienced with a direct hit, it can easily kill anyone that's on the deck and still cause 20%-40% damage. If my gunner hasn't been able to shoot the plane down by the time the plane starts making strafing runs he probably isn't going to down it' its generally time to dive and get out of harms way rather than hope your gunner gets in a couple of good shots.

[ShadowOps]

I have a nub question: Do the torpedo speeds have any affect on anything other than the speed of the torpedo? Are there any differences with damage or anything?

[Gargamel]

I have a nub question: Do the torpedo speeds have any affect on anything other than the speed of the torpedo? Are there any differences with damage or anything?

They won't run as far, as their fuel will run out sooner at faster settings. Higher speeds are good for close attacks, where the ToT (Time On Target, or run time till impact) needs to be as quick as possible. Good against zigzagging ships or ships like destroyers that can change course very quickly when the eels are discovered.

But torpedos are not kinetic weapons. They cause damage via the high explosive that is detonated. So speed of the weapon shouldn't have any effect on damage. It could though, affect how far under a ship the eel gets before the magnetic pistol detonates it. This will affect the damage, as a perfect keel shot may break a ship's spine, while a more oblique explosion may not do as much damage.

[Jimbuna]

They won't run as far, as their fuel will run out sooner at faster settings. Higher speeds are good for close attacks, where the ToT (Time On Target, or run time till impact) needs to be as quick as possible. Good against zigzagging ships or ships like destroyers that can change course very quickly when the eels are discovered.

But torpedos are not kinetic weapons. They cause damage via the high explosive that is detonated. So speed of the weapon shouldn't have any effect on damage. It could though, affect how far under a ship the eel gets before the magnetic pistol detonates it. This will affect the damage, as a perfect keel shot may break a ship's spine, while a more oblique explosion may not do as much damage.

Good response http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

[Gargamel]

Good response http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/thumbsup.gif

Why thank you herr jim :D

[Pisces]

I have a nub question: Do the torpedo speeds have any affect on anything other than the speed of the torpedo? Are there any differences with damage or anything?

They won't run as far, as their fuel will run out sooner at faster settings. Higher speeds are good for close attacks, where the ToT (Time On Target, or run time till impact) needs to be as quick as possible. Good against zigzagging ships or ships like destroyers that can change course very quickly when the eels are discovered.

But torpedos are not kinetic weapons. They cause damage via the high explosive that is detonated. So speed of the weapon shouldn't have any effect on damage. It could though, affect how far under a ship the eel gets before the magnetic pistol detonates it. This will affect the damage, as a perfect keel shot may break a ship's spine, while a more oblique explosion may not do as much damage.Be carefull with shooting a bunch of torpedos with different speeds. The TDC forget's to change the speedsetting when selecting a tube. (or maybe this only happends when switching over from a Type 1 to a tube having a Type2 torp, not sure exactly) So you'll end up with the torpedo going in the wrong direction. Allways re-set speed after you select a different tube, even if the speedbutton indicates the propper setting. Before you want to shoot also double check the gyro-angle because of this, if it is important to you. The GWX manual explains this issue more propperly, although it is a bug in all stock or modded versions.

[Jimbuna]

Why thank you herr jim :D

Credit where credit is due http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[ShadowOps]

They won't run as far, as their fuel will run out sooner at faster settings. Higher speeds are good for close attacks, where the ToT (Time On Target, or run time till impact) needs to be as quick as possible. Good against zigzagging ships or ships like destroyers that can change course very quickly when the eels are discovered.

But torpedos are not kinetic weapons. They cause damage via the high explosive that is detonated. So speed of the weapon shouldn't have any effect on damage. It could though, affect how far under a ship the eel gets before the magnetic pistol detonates it. This will affect the damage, as a perfect keel shot may break a ship's spine, while a more oblique explosion may not do as much damage.

Thank you, I had been wondering this for a while but never asked it.

[ShadowOps]

Be carefull with shooting a bunch of torpedos with different speeds. The TDC forget's to change the speedsetting when selecting a tube. (or maybe this only happends when switching over from a Type 1 to a tube having a Type2 torp, not sure exactly) So you'll end up with the torpedo going in the wrong direction. Allways re-set speed after you select a different tube, even if the speedbutton indicates the propper setting. Before you want to shoot also double check the gyro-angle because of this, if it is important to you. The GWX manual explains this issue more propperly, although it is a bug in all stock or modded versions.

I will try to keep this in mind :DL

[Gargamel]

Thank you, I had been wondering this for a while but never asked it.

No prob, SINK THEM ALL!