Urban survival: How to defend against psychopaths

[Castout]

This is so very true and handy. Should be thought even at schools. I'm a victim of one so I know the description all too well, I swear:yeah:

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xfoddw_defense-against-the-psychopath-part-three_lifestyle

[TLAM Strike]

I have my own way of protecting against psychopaths, I encourage everyone here to use it as well...

Step 1: Realize that anyone you encounter in your daily life maybe a psychopath and can or will do you harm... this could be a neighbor, a friend, co-worker, family member, person on TV, or a complete stranger.

Step 2: Kill them immediately.

Step 3: To prevent other psychopaths from knowing you are on to them; hide the body. Your basement, garage or the woods are good locations. Cut up the body to make it harder to find or to hide it in different locations. The fool proof way to hide a body is to eat it and grind up the bones in to dust.

Step 4: Repeat until you encounter no further psychopaths.

[Castout]

I have my own way of protecting against psychopaths, I encourage everyone here to use it as well...

Step 1: Realize that anyone you encounter in your daily life maybe a psychopath and can or will do you harm... this could be a neighbor, a friend, co-worker, family member, person on TV, or a complete stranger.

Step 2: Kill them immediately.

Step 3: To prevent other psychopaths from knowing you are on to them; hide the body. Your basement, garage or the woods are good locations. Cut up the body to make it harder to find or to hide it in different locations. The fool proof way to hide a body is to eat it and grind up the bones in to dust.

Step 4: Repeat until you encounter no further psychopaths.

1. So how would you get laid
2. Wouldn't that make you one?
3. Too much work
4. Repeat 1-3

:haha:

Also forget about the video as it is poorly made and only listen to the narration(voice)

[Castout]

Your Stress Sources

"Not a team player and is unwilling to be involved in most activities. In the past he was over involved and now emotionally drained. Due to his fear of over involvement, he now chooses to remain uninvolved with the activities around him. "


One thing we do know is this: many people who experience interactions with psychopaths and narcissists report feeling "drained" and confused and often subsequently experience deteriorating health.

Many of them can be found in white collar professions where they are aided in their evil by the fact that most people expect certain classes of people to be trustworthy because of their social or professional credentials. Lawyers, doctors, teachers, politicians, psychiatrists and psychologists, generally do not have to earn our trust because they have it by virtue of their positions. But the fact is: psychopaths are found in such lofty spheres also!

More can be found here
http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/psychopath.htm

[NeonSamurai]

A lot I didn't quite agree with in that video. Also psychopaths are very hard to spot (at least the smart socialized variant are).

Anyhow here is something you may find interesting. The PCL-R

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hare_Psychopathy_Checklist


The basic checkist is below and score given as 0,1,2 per item, and if memory serves you need roughly a 24 or better. Keep in mind though this was designed for detecting non socialized (criminalistic) psychopaths, the only population available for study.

1 Glibness/superficial charm
2 Grandiose sense of self-worth
3 Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom
4 Pathological lying
5 Cunning/manipulative
6 Lack of remorse or guilt
7 Shallow affect [i.e. superficial experience and expression of emotions]
8 Callous/lack of empathy
9 Parasitic lifestyle
10 Poor behavioural controls
11 Promiscuous sexual behaviour
12 Early behaviour problems
13 Lack of realistic long-term goals
14 Impulsivity
15 Irresponsibility
16 Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
17 Many short term marital relationships
18 Juvenile delinquency
19 Revocation of conditional release
20 Criminal versatility

[Castout]

I agree with almost everything that the video mentioned. Forget the video and just listen to the narration.

yes it may be very very hard to spot a psychopath but in the video it's mentioned that sooner or later they will reveal themselves thus one of the tactic is to wait them out.

It's also mentioned that there's only two ways to deal with psychopath in one's life that is to evade them entirely but most often than not the time when he or she is recognized as psychopath, the damage is already done and more often than not since a psychopath takes pleasure at causing people suffering and pain he or she will continue his psychopathic actions.

This leaves only the second way to deal with the psychopath, that is to attack him relentlessly. I made a mistake of giving a psychopath quarter and being mostly passive much to the deterioration of my health, well being and life.

Giving the other cheek doesn't work for psychopath what they need is strong action. They respect power thus fighting without giving quarter is what needs to be done.

The video also mentioned however to give a psychopath a way out to avoid him causing unnecessary damage when he's or she is left without a way out.

I'd say to bury the psychopath in the ground come what may. A psychopath is a very dangerous person indeed, a man which could literally make insane the sane good people over time. An active effort must be made to avoid becoming like a psychopath in effect after being a victim of one. They are most dangerous when they are people of power and wealth. But what made them what they are are also their weaknesses. Once understood they become easily predictable even to the point of dictating his every move by exploiting his thinking pattern taking away his initiatives and toying with him or her(yes I sound like one don't I that's what you get when you personally involved with one over almost a decade). A psychopath is very predictable because in essence he or she is not a sophisticated person to the point of being primal. A psychopath keyword is desire and not rational thinking thus always judge a psychopath behavior from the point of view of what he or she actually wants instead of needs.

Once revealed a psychopath lost much of his striking power. But the revelation often came too late or too surprising that much damage is already being done.

I'd recommend for schools to teach about psychopath to help people recognize this disability in man and help those children deal with any future psychopath that may cross their life in the future.

[Sailor Steve]

@ NeonSamurai: Interesting list. I was not surprised to find how many of those apply to me, but pleasantly surprised to see how many did not. I feel better now.

[Herr-Berbunch]

I have my own way of protecting against psychopaths, I encourage everyone here to use it as well...

Step 1: Realize that anyone you encounter in your daily life maybe a psychopath and can or will do you harm... this could be a neighbor, a friend, co-worker, family member, person on TV, or a complete stranger.

Step 2: Kill them immediately.

Step 3: To prevent other psychopaths from knowing you are on to them; hide the body. Your basement, garage or the woods are good locations. Cut up the body to make it harder to find or to hide it in different locations. The fool proof way to hide a body is to eat it and grind up the bones in to dust.

Step 4: Repeat until you encounter no further psychopaths.

1. So how would you get laidBetween steps 2 and 3.

2. Wouldn't that make you one?Only if you get caught.

3. Too much work You have to do it, so you don't get caught, and become one. Then you don't get laid!

4. Repeat 1-3Ad infinitum :D

[CCIP]

Between steps 2 and 3.



:rotfl2:

Not unexpected for the Subsim Army of Zombies, though :88)

[danlisa]

Holy crap Neon, your post describes 75% of the GT Subsim community.:o

*backs away slowly*



1 Glibness/superficial charm - CHECK
2 Grandiose sense of self-worth - CHECK
3 Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom - CHECK
4 Pathological lying - ON OCCASION :O:
5 Cunning/manipulative - CHECK
6 Lack of remorse or guilt - CHECK
7 Shallow affect [i.e. superficial experience and expression of emotions] - CHECK
8 Callous/lack of empathy - CHECK
9 Parasitic lifestyle - NOPE
10 Poor behavioural controls - CHECK
11 Promiscuous sexual behaviour - USED TO
12 Early behaviour problems - CAN'T REMEMBER BUT I'M SURE THERE'S EVIDENCE SOMEWHERE
13 Lack of realistic long-term goals - CHECK
14 Impulsivity - CHECK
15 Irresponsibility - CHECK
16 Failure to accept responsibility for own actions - CHECK
17 Many short term marital relationships - SO FAR, NO
18 Juvenile delinquency - TOO OLD NOW :O:
19 Revocation of conditional release - LOL WUT!
20 Criminal versatility - WHAT, GOOD A NICKING THINGS?

Dang! Need professional help.

[mookiemookie]

I have my own way of protecting against psychopaths, I encourage everyone here to use it as well...

Step 1: Realize that anyone you encounter in your daily life maybe a psychopath and can or will do you harm... this could be a neighbor, a friend, co-worker, family member, person on TV, or a complete stranger.

Step 2: Kill them immediately.

Step 3: To prevent other psychopaths from knowing you are on to them; hide the body. Your basement, garage or the woods are good locations. Cut up the body to make it harder to find or to hide it in different locations. The fool proof way to hide a body is to eat it and grind up the bones in to dust.

Step 4: Repeat until you encounter no further psychopaths.

:rotfl2::lol: Post of the year!

[Herr-Berbunch]

1 Glibness/superficial charm :yep: Not superficial - I AM charming
2 Grandiose sense of self-worth :yep: Not grandiose at all, just as long as it's about ME
3 Need for stimulation/proneness to boredom :yep: C'mon, why is this list so damn long?
4 Pathological lying :yep: Bernard did it!
5 Cunning/manipulative :yep: Herr Kaluen, it was Bernard, why don't you let him have permanent shore leave?
6 Lack of remorse or guilt :yep: Ha, ha, Bernard's on permanent shore leave
7 Shallow affect [i.e. superficial experience and expression of emotions] :yep: Oh dear, Bernard, that is so sad.
8 Callous/lack of empathy :yep: In your face, Bernard!
9 Parasitic lifestyle :yep: Hey, Bernard has left these photos of his wife!
10 Poor behavioural controls :yep: I'm sorry Herr Kaluen, I will not use those pics in that manner whilst onboard again
11 Promiscuous sexual behaviourIf only...
12 Early behaviour problems :yep: Goosed the nanny.
13 Lack of realistic long-term goals :yep: I will finish SHIII in 1945 as the victor
14 Impulsivity :yep: Responding to this post.
15 Irresponsibility :yep: Responding to this post instead of working.
16 Failure to accept responsibility for own actions :yep: I've told you, Bernard did it!
17 Many short term marital relationships :nope: Just the one, and that seems like it's lasting forever!
18 Juvenile delinquency :yep: Shooting up the light ships?
19 Revocation of conditional release :D I'm back (or here's Johnny)
20 Criminal versatility :yep: Parking fines AND speeding ticket in one day.

19/20 Correct - Do I win a prize :smug:

[frau kaleun]

:yep: Not superficial - I AM charming
:yep: Not grandiose at all, just as long as it's about ME
:yep: C'mon, why is this list so damn long?
:yep: Bernard did it!
:yep: Herr Kaluen, it was Bernard, why don't you let him have permanent shore leave?
:yep: Ha, ha, Bernard's on permanent shore leave
:yep: Oh dear, Bernard, that is so sad.
:yep: In your face, Bernard!
:yep: Hey, Bernard has left these photos of his wife!
:yep: I'm sorry Herr Kaluen, I will not use those pics in that manner whilst onboard again

:har:

[Jimbuna]

I have my own way of protecting against psychopaths, I encourage everyone here to use it as well...

Step 1: Realize that anyone you encounter in your daily life maybe a psychopath and can or will do you harm... this could be a neighbor, a friend, co-worker, family member, person on TV, or a complete stranger.

Step 2: Kill them immediately.

Step 3: To prevent other psychopaths from knowing you are on to them; hide the body. Your basement, garage or the woods are good locations. Cut up the body to make it harder to find or to hide it in different locations. The fool proof way to hide a body is to eat it and grind up the bones in to dust.

Step 4: Repeat until you encounter no further psychopaths.


You could soon find yourself living a lonely existence :DL

[NeonSamurai]

BTW the rating scale is

0 does not apply
1 somewhat applies
2 completely applies

I doubt most of you would meet the requirements to be a psychopath, but statistically I bet there are more than a few here. Also this is not a self diagnosis kind of test (or one filled out by the subject) as psychopaths will lie. It is filled out after interviews with the subject, people the subject knows, victims, and personal history that is available. Plus the PCL-R is only good for the criminal non-socialized type of psychopath.

The scary thing though is we only have some idea about the numbers of non-socialized psychopaths (ie the criminal psychopaths). The socialized ones we know little about other than they exist, as they are not likely to self identify, or submit to testing/research. A lot higher corporate management types though are candidates given their own behavior and that of corporations (which are psychopathic entities themselves, most corporations score very highly on the PCL-R).


I agree with almost everything that the video mentioned. Forget the video and just listen to the narration.

yes it may be very very hard to spot a psychopath but in the video it's mentioned that sooner or later they will reveal themselves thus one of the tactic is to wait them out.

Problem with that is by the time they do, its usually way to late. They are incredibly good at masking their true intentions and manipulating those around them. Most people don't even realize the person was one even long after the relationship ended.

It's also mentioned that there's only two ways to deal with psychopath in one's life that is to evade them entirely but most often than not the time when he or she is recognized as psychopath, the damage is already done and more often than not since a psychopath takes pleasure at causing people suffering and pain he or she will continue his psychopathic actions.

Evading them is impossible, they are everywhere, and blend very well. Also I do not agree with your assertion that they take pleasure in causing suffering. One of the key components of psychopathy is shallow affect and emotions. Their emotional response tends to be flat to non existent (including to pleasure). So while they may find what they are doing amusing or entertaining, it is not pleasure in the conventional sense (that is sadism which is a sexual disorder).

This leaves only the second way to deal with the psychopath, that is to attack him relentlessly. I made a mistake of giving a psychopath quarter and being mostly passive much to the deterioration of my health, well being and life.

I would actually suggest disengagement. Psychopaths are very dangerous individuals as they can be unpredictable, do not experience fear or anxiety, and have no social compunctions. This means they can kill you with out a second thought purely on impulse, and with no regret (at best they may regret getting caught). Socialized psychopaths are less likely to kill, but that is only because they can rationalize the potential consequences of jail or execution if caught. But with out the consequence of getting caught they would kill just as readily.

Giving the other cheek doesn't work for psychopath what they need is strong action. They respect power thus fighting without giving quarter is what needs to be done.

As I said, I suggest getting out of the situation. They don't respect anything, at all. Fight them, and if they can't take you directly, they will do it indirectly or when you are vulnerable.

The video also mentioned however to give a psychopath a way out to avoid him causing unnecessary damage when he's or she is left without a way out.

That is a possibility, though they may not take it unless they benefit.

I'd say to bury the psychopath in the ground come what may. A psychopath is a very dangerous person indeed, a man which could literally make insane the sane good people over time. An active effort must be made to avoid becoming like a psychopath in effect after being a victim of one. They are most dangerous when they are people of power and wealth. But what made them what they are are also their weaknesses. Once understood they become easily predictable even to the point of dictating his every move by exploiting his thinking pattern taking away his initiatives and toying with him or her(yes I sound like one don't I that's what you get when you personally involved with one over almost a decade).

This is one area where I did not agree with the film. Psychopaths are incredibly unpredictable, even if their motivations are fairly predictable. Also psychopathy is not a learned condition, nor does it seem to be affected by environment (only the type of psychopath you turn out to be, socialized or not, may be influenced by environment). Psychopaths are born not bred according to all available present research.

A psychopath is very predictable because in essence he or she is not a sophisticated person to the point of being primal. A psychopath keyword is desire and not rational thinking thus always judge a psychopath behavior from the point of view of what he or she actually wants instead of needs.

This is false. The level of sophisitication in psychopaths varies as much as it does in normal populations. Most are very rational, in fact many would say that is all they are... cold emotionless self serving rationalists. They may not always think things through (impulsivity) though. This doesn't mean they are not predatory. But they are predatory not because they are primal in nature, but because they have absolutely zero empathy, and emotions which are at best very different from 'normal' people.

Once revealed a psychopath lost much of his striking power. But the revelation often came too late or too surprising that much damage is already being done.

Think so? I disagree quite a bit. They are still incredibly manipulative people and are extremely good at picking out your weakness and playing on them. I've actually known of clinical therapists in prisons who knew full well the person they were dealing with is a psychopath, and yet they still got emotionally caught by them, even becoming romantically involved with them (I know of one case where the therapist ended up facing criminal charges after planning to help her psychopathic lover and murder try to escape, and she was a health professional who was trained to work with psychopaths).

I'd recommend for schools to teach about psychopath to help people recognize this disability in man and help those children deal with any future psychopath that may cross their life in the future.

I am not so sure about this. For one thing you will not spot them (and it will probably lead to a lot of false accusations). Plus the public tends to take such stuff and distort it.


Anyhow I suggest you do some reading of Dr Hare's work. He is the guy that came up with the PCL-R, and is considered one of the foremost experts in the field.

[FIREWALL]

Happy Holidays everyone :roll:

[Castout]

@ NeonSamurai: Interesting list. I was not surprised to find how many of those apply to me, but pleasantly surprised to see how many did not. I feel better now.

It's normal to have a few of those they are not exclusive to the psychopaths they are just common in psychopaths.


The only thing that define a person psychopath is the complete absence of conscience. No remorse no guilt no empathy no conscience. And irrational overdone behaviors stemming from what he or she wants which he or she pursue with no conscience, no empathy, no guilt and no remorse. A psychopaths also an easy liar. Lying is second nature to them.

[the_tyrant]

The only thing that define a person psychopath is the complete absence of conscience. No remorse no guilt no empathy no conscience. And irrational overdone behaviors stemming from what he or she wants which he or she pursue with no conscience, no empathy, no guilt and no remorse. A psychopaths also an easy liar. Lying is second nature to them.

That pretty much describes every politician:shifty:
BTW, Castout's blog is quite interesting. if you haven't read it yet, go and have a look

[DarkFish]

I doubt most of you would meet the requirements to be a psychopath, but statistically I bet there are more than a few here.What are the statistics?

Also this is not a self diagnosis kind of test (or one filled out by the subject) as psychopaths will lie.I'm no psychopath:D - Oh, wait:shifty:

Evading them is impossible, they are everywhere, and blend very well. Also I do not agree with your assertion that they take pleasure in causing suffering. One of the key components of psychopathy is shallow affect and emotions. Their emotional response tends to be flat to non existent (including to pleasure). So while they may find what they are doing amusing or entertaining, it is not pleasure in the conventional sense (that is sadism which is a sexual disorder).How can they find things amusing or entertaining if they can't experience emotions?:06:

So while they may find what they are doing amusing or entertaining, it is not pleasure in the conventional sense (that is sadism which is a sexual disorder).Does that mean there are no sadistic psychopaths? That's a relief:DL

Also, how do you know all these things? Are you a psychiatrist or something?

[Rilder]

Psychopathic, WHOOP WHOOP. :arrgh!:

[NeonSamurai]

What are the statistics?

Estimates are about 1% of the general population, possibly higher. We have a reasonable idea of population % for the non-socialized/criminal type, but only very rough estimates for the socialized type.



How can they find things amusing or entertaining if they can't experience emotions?:06:Being entertained isn't exactly an emotion (neither is boredom) but more of a state of mind or level of arousal.



Does that mean there are no sadistic psychopaths? That's a relief:DLThat would be debatable. Also sadism is technically a sexual dysfunction which means the person derives sexual pleasure from sadistic behavior. What I am more driving at is that psychopaths do not experience pleasure in the same way normal people do. So while we may call them sadistic due to behavior, I don't feel they are truely sadistic given how they seem to experience pleasure (at best they experience a very shallow version of pleasure, most don't seem to show it at all, at least in a way normal people would understand).


Also, how do you know all these things? Are you a psychiatrist or something?Currently 4th year honors psychology student (career number 3) with plans to go on to clinical social work, though I have a lot of other experience in the field. I am pretty familiar with this particular condition, have met a few diagnosed psychopaths, and done a fair amount of reading on the subject in addition to courses that have dealt with the topic in varying levels of detail. I am also a cognitive science researcher (scholarship).

[Platapus]

Currently 4th year honors psychology student (career number 3) with plans to go on to clinical social work, though I have a lot of other experience in the field. I am pretty familiar with this particular condition, have met a few diagnosed psychopaths, and done a fair amount of reading on the subject in addition to courses that have dealt with the topic in varying levels of detail. I am also a cognitive science researcher (scholarship).


Ok, then learn me a few things. :88)

What is the difference between a psychopath and a psychotic?

A previous poster a psychopath was a person with no remorse or feeling. I thought that was more psychotic. I always thought that a psychopath suffered from a spectrum of abhorrent behaviours. And they can run from almost "normal" to the extreme and anywhere in between. This behaviour can be in response to some incident or trauma that was real or perceived.

However, a psychotic, may not have a contributing event or issue, they may just lack the (forgive the layman's terms) normal mental/emotional sets of checks and balances.

Like I said, I am the layest of laymen when it comes to this stuff. :88):88)

[DarkFish]

Estimates are about 1% of the general population, possibly higher. We have a reasonable idea of population % for the non-socialized/criminal type, but only very rough estimates for the socialized type.That's fairly much I'd say:hmmm: Good thing not all psychopaths are of the criminal, non-socialized kind then...


Being entertained isn't exactly an emotion (neither is boredom) but more of a state of mind or level of arousal.Hmm okay.. if I understand you correctly, an emotion must be something like the result of a state of mind. As in, a normal person finds something amusing, so he gets happy? And psychopaths are capable of experiencing these state of minds, and can like or dislike those, but cannot experience the ensuing emotions?

How about love? Can psychopaths feel truly attracted to someone? Isn't love more like a primal instinct to ensure procreation? Or is it "just" an emotion?
And if they find a partner, do they choose her/him only because he/she can give some kind of advantage in life, or also because the psychopath likes her/his looks?

That would be debatable. Also sadism is technically a sexual dysfunction which means the person derives sexual pleasure from sadistic behavior. What I am more driving at is that psychopaths do not experience pleasure in the same way normal people do. So while we may call them sadistic due to behavior, I don't feel they are truely sadistic given how they seem to experience pleasure (at best they experience a very shallow version of pleasure, most don't seem to show it at all, at least in a way normal people would understand).Hmm, so a psychopath can not be a sadist in the traditional meaning of the word, while it's not impossible for one to like torturing people? Thereby not gaining the pleasure a "normal" sadist does, but finding it, in your words, "amusing or entertaining" to torture their victims?

[NeonSamurai]

Ok, then learn me a few things. :88)

What is the difference between a psychopath and a psychotic?

A psychopath is a type of condition. The main features are they lack standard emotions (referred to as shallow affect, where they can mimic them, but don't seem to really feel them), have no senses of guilt or remorse (emotions again), and also do not seem to feel anxiety or fear. They also have zero empathy (kind of hard to empathize with people if you feel nothing). The often tend to be highly egocentric (self centered), and pathological liars. Because of all of this they have no trouble causing harm to others to get what they want, including using force and causing death.

Look over the PCL-R I gave, that has all the stuff we look for in the non-socialized aka criminal type of psychopath.

Now a psychotic is someone who has broken from reality in some way or another (delusions mostly). A person who hears voices or sees hallucinations would be a psychotic. The classic form of psychosis is schizophrenia. Also being psychotic does not necessarily mean you are a dangerous person or intend harm. Most psychotics are in fact harmless (on par with the average rates of criminality in the general public).

You may notice that common usage is totally backwards and has the two completely confused.

A previous poster a psychopath was a person with no remorse or feeling. I thought that was more psychotic. I always thought that a psychopath suffered from a spectrum of abhorrent behaviours. And they can run from almost "normal" to the extreme and anywhere in between. This behaviour can be in response to some incident or trauma that was real or perceived.

True psychopaths are that way from birth according to all the research (though people can show elements of psychopathic behavior without being real psychopaths). There are lots of people who have suffered horrendous abuse and neglect and did not become psychopathic



That's fairly much I'd say:hmmm: Good thing not all psychopaths are of the criminal, non-socialized kind then...

Yes and no. These people are also equally destructive (and potentially as lethal if not more so if you look at the damage and death corporations can cause), just in different ways. They also tend to toxify the environment they are in for others.


Hmm okay.. if I understand you correctly, an emotion must be something like the result of a state of mind. As in, a normal person finds something amusing, so he gets happy? And psychopaths are capable of experiencing these state of minds, and can like or dislike those, but cannot experience the ensuing emotions?

It is really hard to say for sure what they feel. The information we have about it comes from some fMRI (functional Magnetic Resonance Imaging) studies of brain activity, and what research participants self report when interviewed (which being pathological liars and constant manipulators, you have to be very careful with) Boredom for example is not really an emotion (like love, happiness, sadness, etc) and neither is arousal. I would say that they do not experience the emotional aspects of arousal, or if they do its very different from normal people.

How about love? Can psychopaths feel truly attracted to someone? Isn't love more like a primal instinct to ensure procreation? Or is it "just" an emotion?
And if they find a partner, do they choose her/him only because he/she can give some kind of advantage in life, or also because the psychopath likes her/his looks?

I would say the answer is no. Attraction yes though, and they tend to be attracted to other psychopaths. But its kind of like two sharks, in that they will turn on each other in a heartbeat if it proves advantageous to one. Otherwise 'partners' they have are more targets of manipulation and exploitation (including sexual).

Hmm, so a psychopath can not be a sadist in the traditional meaning of the word, while it's not impossible for one to like torturing people? Thereby not gaining the pleasure a "normal" sadist does, but finding it, in your words, "amusing or entertaining" to torture their victims?

Again hard to really say for certain. Torturing someone would not make them happy, though they may find it gratifying doing so. Many though seem to be entirely indifferent to it, and often will calmly express incidents where they brutally killed someone and not show any arousal or excitement over it.


One key point though is that mental illness and personality disorders (psychopathy would be one), are not black and white, but exist on a continuum. This means that they can vary quite a bit in actual manifestation from one individual to another.

[Castout]

That pretty much describes every politician:shifty:
BTW, Castout's blog is quite interesting. if you haven't read it yet, go and have a look

Not really it doesn't mean normal people would not make the morally wrong choices but the guilt must be there. Men are fallible psychopathic or not. Just easier for the first and they never fail not to fail his fellow men.

Also there's primary psychopath and secondary psychopath. When a psychopath rules a country for example essentially he is making much of his population to be secondary psychopath themselves. The population is forced to be harsh and selfish. Survival of the fittest is perhaps the best motto for a psychopath though technically I'd think their traits are a disability.


What are the statistics?



Not good if you're in the US I read 1 out of 5 in US are psychopathic.

It's much better in Britain. Like every 1 out of 10 or 20 can't really remember.

read those on local newspaper I think years ago.

@Neon Samurai I don't think psychopath have no feelings just that they have no soul. They may be excited or even takes pleasure at causing others suffering and they could be made angry for sure and I bet most are proud about themselves too besides impatient and resentful especially for the unsuccessful psychopaths. This alone proves they do have feelings just so twisted they are not normal. They have been termed the human predators. if normal people are like gun then psychopaths are guns without safety switch . . . . but they think that is their advantage. They are people without control since they have no conscience they are unleashed without boundaries only desires to be fulfilled. In short I'd think them as animal because animals are driven solely by their desires and proceed to do thing soley basing on their wants. But then again I've seen animals displaying benevolent deeds and showing long term gratitude and affection.

The thing is what made a psychopath a psychopath is it a defective gene traits much like autism(autism has been found to be the result of mutating genes)? Or cultural or social pressure? or abusive past experience?

[NeonSamurai]

Not really it doesn't mean normal people would not make the morally wrong choices but the guilt must be there. Men are fallible psychopathic or not. Just easier for the first and they never fail not to fail his fellow men.

Also there's primary psychopath and secondary psychopath. When a psychopath rules a country for example essentially he is making much of his population to be secondary psychopath themselves. The population is forced to be harsh and selfish. Survival of the fittest is perhaps the best motto for a psychopath though technically I'd think their traits are a disability.

There is no such thing as primary and secondary psychopaths, its a disorder that you either do have or don't have. You can't turn someone into a psychopath. I can also point to several countries where the rulers are in fact not psychopathic, and such behavior exists in the general populace either due to social norms of that society, or extreme distress (warfare, starvation, etc)

Not good if you're in the US I read 1 out of 5 in US are psychopathic.

It's much better in Britain. Like every 1 out of 10 or 20 can't really remember.

read those on local newspaper I think years ago.

I think that newspaper is full of it. For one thing no research I know of shows any difference in population levels of psychopathic individuals between countries or levels of development. I am also not aware of any professional quoting those kinds of numbers. 1% of the population is the estimate given by Dr. Hare who is the foremost expert in the field.


@Neon Samurai I don't think psychopath have no feelings just that they have no soul. They may be excited or even takes pleasure at causing others suffering and they could be made angry for sure and I bet most are proud about themselves too besides impatient and resentful especially for the unsuccessful psychopaths. This alone proves they do have feelings just so twisted they are not normal. They have been termed the human predators. if normal people are like gun then psychopaths are guns without safety switch . . . . but they think that is their advantage. They are people without control since they have no conscience they are unleashed without boundaries only desires to be fulfilled. In short I'd think them as animal because animals are driven solely by their desires and proceed to do thing soley basing on their wants. But then again I've seen animals displaying benevolent deeds and showing long term gratitude and affection.

The thing is what made a psychopath a psychopath is it a defective gene traits much like autism(autism has been found to be the result of mutating genes)? Or cultural or social pressure? or abusive past experience?

I am not going to get into religious concepts such as souls. I am going strictly by the scientific research available, which goes against most of what you have said, and say above. Frankly I think a large part of that video is full of it, and I would like to see the evidence and research that the author has (if any) to back up the claims made. Frankly if you are going to make such claims yourself I would like to see the research that backs up your statements (and no that video, nor do popular books count, I want empirical research). I'll be happy to cite references for mine.

As for causes, it is either genetic, or in utero brain damage (infection maybe?) from the currently available data. Signs of psychopathy show up at a very early age (setting fires, torturing and killing animals, lack of emotions, lack of fear/anxiety), and environment seems to play little part in it (there are several psychopaths that have come from perfectly loving and otherwise happy homes, and plenty of people who were abused to unimaginable levels that did not become psychopathic). We do know that it is not caused by "Or cultural or social pressure? or abusive past experience?". As I have said a few times now, they are born not made.

[Armistead]

Clarice...........:D

Hannibal Lecter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000164/): First principles, Clarice. Simplicity. Read Marcus Aurelius. Of each particular thing ask: what is it in itself? What is its nature? What does he do, this man you seek?
Clarice Starling (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000149/): He kills women...
Hannibal Lecter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000164/): No. That is incidental. What is the first and principal thing he does? What needs does he serve by killing?
Clarice Starling (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000149/): Anger, um, social acceptance, and, huh, sexual frustrations, sir...
Hannibal Lecter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000164/): No! He covets. That is his nature. And how do we begin to covet, Clarice? Do we seek out things to covet? Make an effort to answer now.
Clarice Starling (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000149/): No. We just...
Hannibal Lecter (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0000164/): No. We begin by coveting what we see every day. Don't you feel eyes moving over your body, Clarice? And don't your eyes seek out the things you want?

[NeonSamurai]

Anyhow some videos

First off fMRI scans of prison population psychopaths
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaTfdKYbudk

50 minute documentary about psychopaths with interviews (I think I posted this sometime before so you all may have seen it).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zA9-RB3runE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mML7VKrRhk8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7_z41HMnKQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIX19pbQAs0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYYqyRtv7lw

[Platapus]

One key point though is that mental illness and personality disorders (psychopathy would be one), are not black and white, but exist on a continuum. This means that they can vary quite a bit in actual manifestation from one individual to another.

Thanks for posting that.

I have met one truly psychopathic person in the military. This was back in 1981. I thought he was psychotic but evidently I had the definitions reversed. It was pretty scary being around him. He was not violent to people when I knew him but he was well down the path of cruelty to animals.

A very scary person to be around. :yep:

[NeonSamurai]

My pleasure :DL and most of the general public has the two things reversed, even I did before I got into the field (or rather I didn't know of the difference between psychotic and psychopathic). Your average 'crazy' or psychotic person (schizophrenic) is about as dangerous in general as your average 'sane' person.

Ya I've met a few before my current career. One thing about them I, and others have noticed, is they have this very distinctive way of looking at others. They kind of look through you, and you can sort of sense that you are utterly insignificant to them, and were you to get in their way, they would likely treat you, as most people would treat an insect. Every one I have ever met has had that stare (including the psychopaths in the videos I linked).

[Platapus]

Ya I've met a few before my current career. One thing about them I, and others have noticed, is they have this very distinctive way of looking at others. They kind of look through you, and you can sort of sense that you are utterly insignificant to them, and were you to get in their way, they would likely treat you, as most people would treat an insect. Every one I have ever met has had that stare (including the psychopaths in the videos I linked).


Yeah, it was the stare. :yep:

An almost interesting story about this individual...

There I was, No Shi... uh this really happened.

I was stationed at Indian Head Naval Ordnance Station going through EOD school in 1981. One of our officer students drove up to the school house dragging this dead cat behind his car.

When he found out, he was shocked and horrified. It appeared that his "friend" (the psychopath) had tied a dead cat to his car as a joke. There was considerable doubt that this cat was dead at the time of the tying due to the bleeding and the wounds.

Psychopath thought this was a grand joke.

A Marine Lt Col EOD instructor disagreed with him. He did not think it was funny for an Army Lt to exhibit cruelty to animals. He ordered this psychopathic LT to draw the US Army manual for graves and an entrenching tool (small shovel) and bury the cat.

"haha, I know Major, I am sorry. It won't happen again" said the LT. (this conversation took place in front of the entire assembled class. ) He was used to not being held accountable for his actions. Something the Marine Lt Col also disagreed with. :D

"Lieutenant, I believe I just gave you an order" When a Marine O-5 gives an order, there is little doubt or uncertainty. :yep:

Evidently it will take an entire 8 hour day to dig a regulation grave with only an entrenching tool, bury a cat, and then cover it up again. We all watched it.

That was one cool Lt Col. :yeah:

I don't think it cured the LT, but it was good justice.

[Castout]

There is no such thing as primary and secondary psychopaths, its a disorder that you either do have or don't have. You can't turn someone into a psychopath. I can also point to several countries where the rulers are in fact not psychopathic, and such behavior exists in the general populace either due to social norms of that society, or extreme distress (warfare, starvation, etc)


Mealey uses the term "primary psychopathy" to differentiate between psychopathy that is biological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biology) in origin and "secondary psychopathy" that results from a combination of genetic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gene) and environmental influences.

I never made the claim that all rulers are psychopaths I don't know where and how you came to that.





I am not going to get into religious concepts such as souls. I am going strictly by the scientific research available, which goes against most of what you have said, and say above. Frankly I think a large part of that video is full of it, and I would like to see the evidence and research that the author has (if any) to back up the claims made. Frankly if you are going to make such claims yourself I would like to see the research that backs up your statements (and no that video, nor do popular books count, I want empirical research). I'll be happy to cite references for mine.

As for causes, it is either genetic, or in utero brain damage (infection maybe?) from the currently available data. Signs of psychopathy show up at a very early age (setting fires, torturing and killing animals, lack of emotions, lack of fear/anxiety), and environment seems to play little part in it (there are several psychopaths that have come from perfectly loving and otherwise happy homes, and plenty of people who were abused to unimaginable levels that did not become psychopathic). We do know that it is not caused by "Or cultural or social pressure? or abusive past experience?". As I have said a few times now, they are born not made.

It's genetic flaw.
And my life is an involved interaction with psychopathic people. Primary and secondary(stemming from condition or pressure)

I can testify the video to be accurate in describing the effect of a psychopathic political leader when he or she rules a nation. My life is the evidence to that but then again you do not know me so it cannot be presented as evidence to you unless you study my life :DL

And lastly


Definitions of soul on the Web:


the immaterial part of a person; the actuating cause of an individual life
person: a human being; "there was too much for one person to do"
deep feeling or emotion
the human embodiment of something; "the soul of honor"
a secular form of gospel that was a major Black musical genre in the 1960s and 1970s; "soul was politically significant during the Civil Rights movement"

A soul doesn't always relate to religious idea unlike spirits.

[NeonSamurai]

No it wouldn't have, but had the opportunity arose that Lt. Col probably would have had an unfortunate accident, psychopathic individuals are known for extracting revenge long after an incident like that has happened. This guy sounds like a strong candidate for psychopathy though.

Also it should be noted that the majority of psychopaths have not killed anyone, or at least have not been caught. It tends to be more the impulsive kind that act without considering the consequences before acting that get caught, or those that enjoy killing.

[Castout]

Ah not revenge......more like holding on to something irrationally like a bulldog who wouldn't want to let go......I know that all too well. But they are also careful who to victimized. If the dude didn't feel that the Lt Col was the kind of person he was able to mess up with he simply wouldn't. Chivalry is not in a psychopath dictionary.

As for the stare kind I'd think they probably only exist in the unsuccessful psychopath kind.
There's the charming psychopath who's as the name suggest is charming and there's probably a lot of successful psychopath put there that prove they are hard to detect or identified. A psychopath power lies in covering his true self so I wouldn't think it would be easy to identify a successful psychopath. But one thing is certain though that they reveal who they are from time to time because one cannot hide forever or hold on to a visage forever.

[NeonSamurai]

I never made the claim that all rulers are psychopaths I don't know where and how you came to that.

Probably because I did not make such reference, I was referring to the behavior of a populace which may have psychopathic elements, where the ruler was not psychopathic.

I looked into the literature a bit for primary and secondary psychopaths, and there is such a school of thought. Personally I don't agree with it, but that is because I consider Psychopathy to be a personality disorder, and would consider secondary psychopaths (as described in the literature) to be borderline cases of psychopathy (again mental illness is a continuum not black or white, so you will have people with strong psychopathic elements, but not quite meet the diagnosis cutoff) or having Antisocial Personality Disorder.

Also current evidence does not support Mealey's assertions, since all the current evidence points to psychopaths being born that way, not being created. I would also label what I am seeing being described as secondary psychopaths as having antisocial personality disorder.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisocial_personality_disorder


It's genetic flaw.Current evidence supports that its a genetically caused, or as I said, in utero.

And my life is an involved interaction with psychopathic people. Primary and secondary(stemming from condition or pressure)

I can testify the video to be accurate in describing the effect of a psychopathic political leader when he or she rules a nation. My life is the evidence to that but then again you do not know me so it cannot be presented as evidence to you unless you study my life :DLI don't know if your ruler though has been diagnosed by any professional as being a psychopath. Though for fun, try diagnosing him using the PCL-R (score this person on each of the 20 items, as objectively as you can) I posted based on what you know about him.

As for your testimony, I can't really comment. Though I would ask if the behavior of the populace is because of the leadership, or because of expected social norms of the society itself. I, for example, can point to several behaviors in the western world, that are aspects of psychopathy, but are considered desirable traits and promoted by the society.

It is always a question of which causes the other, and you may be putting the cart in front of the horse. Is it the society itself that is bringing such leaders in, because the society values these traits, or the other way round.

And lastly

A soul doesn't always relate to religious idea unlike spirits.Most people do not use the word soul in that way (soulful would be a more common usage with that implied meaning), and given your religious leanings, it was a natural assumption that you meant it in the typical way. If you meant it purely as them not having "deep feeling or emotion" then I apologize, though you could have used a less ambiguous word.

[Castout]

No apology needed Neon,

Well it's not my country's leader :D that's probably the worst part of the whole ordeal. Never indicated that either.

I'd imagine a psychologist who dare to tell Hitler or Stalin or the likes of people in power to be a narcissist psychopath would either be killed, put into mental institute themselves or sent to forced labor. I'm not naive but people in power will never ever be declared a psychopath by formal institution. So it's left to the victim to bear that obligation of telling him and most importantly the whole world LOL. Come what may. Besides it's the only way to deal with psychopaths and believe me I tried being passive you know forgive and forget for about 6 years or so. but to no avail....I'm put at disadvantage with everything that I do and treated with disdain even by people I hardly knew and largely socially isolated without emotional and moral support even from closest family. Somehow in a lot of occasions I feel like being treated as if I were the common enemy of mankind and this is no hallucination either. So I understand personally what's being said in that video. It may not be a good video but the narration click my situation for the past 8 years. And only nothing short of miracle that I'm still able to retain my sanity and life though my health has deteriorated much. It was so bad that I swore an oath never to give my service to my own country because I was so disappointed that I received no support nor help even from my fellow countrymen. Bad as it is I'm still much much luckier than those who are living in the country which brought me so much agony.

And if I had been an evil man deserving any of this believe me I'd have been already brought to the court to answer for my horrible crimes. Maybe I will for libel but I'm prepared to brace through anything by now. I'm amazed by how easy it is to influence and manipulate what most people would consider good citizen to hate or treat with disdain, discriminate, and harass an innocent person seemingly without reason. I'd call such people secondary psychopaths.
It's all there in the video. Clear and loud and to me very accurate/true.

It's(my ordeal) in my blog especially the first post in my blog.

[NeonSamurai]

Ah not revenge......more like holding on to something irrationally like a bulldog who wouldn't want to let go......I know that all too well. But they are also careful who to victimized. If the dude didn't feel that the Lt Col was the kind of person he was able to mess up with he simply wouldn't. Chivalry is not in a psychopath dictionary.

No, again psychopaths are generally quite rational, their logic often makes perfect sense if you try to think like one would. These people are not psychotic, they are not delusional (normally anyways, there always is the possibility of a comorbid illness). I also would say it is revenge based, and if they have it out for you, and you show a moment of weakness which they can exploit, it is highly probable they will exploit it (especially if they think they can get away with it).

As for the stare kind I'd think they probably only exist in the unsuccessful psychopath kind. There's the charming psychopath who's as the name suggest is charming and there's probably a lot of successful psychopath put there that prove they are hard to detect or identified. A psychopath power lies in covering his true self so I wouldn't think it would be easy to identify a successful psychopath. But one thing is certain though that they reveal who they are from time to time because one cannot hide forever or hold on to a visage forever.

The terms generally used are socialized psychopaths and unsocialized aka unsuccessful psychopaths. Unsocialized ones are generally the ones in prison for murder and the like. They know about social boundaries, but generally don't let those boundaries stop them, they also tend to be the ones that act impulsively or don't fully think through the consequences of their actions (or don't really care). Socialized psychopaths (aka successful), which we don't know a whole lot about, know the rules of the society, are highly rational, have better impulse control, and are more adept at mimicking appropriate social behavior. I've met a few people who I suspected were this kind, due to oddness in some behaviors, and I've seen the look I mentioned above, when the person thinks they are not being observed, or doesn't care.


Ill address your other post later today when I have some time.