New with questions. :)

[Way2co0l]

Heya guys. I just started playing the game about a week ago and I'm having quite a lot of fun despite the fact that it's mostly an alien language to me so far. I really didn't find that the manual or in game tutorials properly explained the instruments and the proper way to utilize what's available to someone that has little prior knowledge of these things. I've spent a lot of time on this site (more then I've even been playing) watching the training videos and reading the documentation and it's helped me quite a bit but there are still a few things that I'm just not connecting the dots on and was hoping someone could help explain them to me. I know some of the questions are probably already answered and I overlooked them or simply didn't understand such is the case with a couple of the videos (the one that I thought would answer all of my questions had such horrible audio I simply couldn't make out what he was saying) so I apologize for any inconvenience. :)

Ok, as I said I've already picked up on quite a bit and am now playing on 100 realism with the exception of the cams which I'm leaving on only to check on my shots after I make them to verify if what I did worked. I don't use them to do anything else. I am starting to have some luck getting the measurements right but these following points I'm really not fully grasping. (Most of it LOL)

For one, the tool to check the distance on a ship after identifying it. There appears to be a slight graphical issue with the tips of the mast when lining the images up and I'm not sure if I should be waiting for that last portion of the mast to flicker into view and place the image at the absolute top of that or should I ignore the portion that's flickering out of view and focus solely on lining it up with the top of the mast that is constantly visible?

Second is the AoB I believe it's called? I believe it means angle of bearing? From what I believe I understand that's the angle the torp will impact the ship at from the current setup. My problem is I simply don't understand how to calculate it short of guesswork. My guessing has been getting better and I managed to get several sinkings last night but I'm sure there's got to be a more sound method to get a precise measurement without guesswork right?

Another is in regards to tracking a ships position with the map. I have no clue what the conversion is between feet and NM's or how to properly use the tools (considering I'm not entirely sure I'm getting the distance right in the first place) so I'm really confused on how to properly note with any measure of certainty where on the map the targeted ship is in relation to me in order to track it's progress which I assume if I can figure that out then determining the AoB will be easy after that.

When it comes to tracking speed, I've been using the method to time how long it takes the ship to pass the crosshairs and that's been pretty accurate for me but depends entirely on being close enough to identify them to know the length of the ship I'm measuring. Again I believe understanding the above point will likely help with this also.

I've also been curious about escorts. I've read a few things on this board about them and I recall one set of pictures that showed early war destroyers ranges at about 120 feet yet there are numerous instances where I'm still being pinged at below 200. In regards to that I'm not entirely sure exactly how deep I can go. I believe the red water mark on the depth meter is somewhere around 300. I haven't tried to go beneath that point as I assume it'd be bad for me but I wonder if it's possible to go that low for any measure of time without getting stuck under. lol

I'm also curious what effect speed has at those depths as there where numerous occasions where I was traveling at great depths and forgot to change from flank speed and used time compression. When doing that my ships would suddenly start taking a ton of damage and I couldn't identify a source as it doesn't appear to be a plane or destroyer and I was in very deep water so it wasn't the floor. I assume it was the constant speed at the pressure those depths bring that did me in? I'm nervous about using high speed when evading escorts while that's a possibility. lol

So yea, I ramble a bit if you can't tell. lol. I'm using the stock game 1.5 U boat missions and any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm really trying to learn and you guys have provided some great vids and articles that have helped me a bunch already, but it's just those few points I can't grasp in the first place. :(

Thanks. :)

[Fishie]

Not much time here, so I'll try to hit on the key points.

For one, the tool to check the distance on a ship after identifying it. There appears to be a slight graphical issue with the tips of the mast when lining the images up and I'm not sure if I should be waiting for that last portion of the mast to flicker into view and place the image at the absolute top of that or should I ignore the portion that's flickering out of view and focus solely on lining it up with the top of the mast that is constantly visible?

Yeah, what you really want to focus on is the part you can actually see all the time. That flickering stay line usually doesn't botch the equation. Top of the mast, and you're golden.

Second is the AoB I believe it's called? I believe it means angle of bearing? From what I believe I understand that's the angle the torp will impact the ship at from the current setup. My problem is I simply don't understand how to calculate it short of guesswork. My guessing has been getting better and I managed to get several sinkings last night but I'm sure there's got to be a more sound method to get a precise measurement without guesswork right?

Nope. The AoB means "Angle Off the Bow". Basically, looking from the target's perspective you are that many degrees off the bow (or stern).

Best way I can put it to you is like this. You're driving in your car, and you come up on somebody you need to pass- they're in your lane. They are 0 degrees off your bow.

As you pass them and they are directly beside you, they are 90 degrees off your bow.

That number increases until you pass them completely, and they are 180 degrees off your bow.

The purpose of the angle off the bow calculation is to tell your TDC (Torpedo Data Computer) which way your target is going *relative to you*.

Other guys can explain it better, I'm sure, but that's the start of it.


Another is in regards to tracking a ships position with the map. I have no clue what the conversion is between feet and NM's or how to properly use the tools (considering I'm not entirely sure I'm getting the distance right in the first place) so I'm really confused on how to properly note with any measure of certainty where on the map the targeted ship is in relation to me in order to track it's progress which I assume if I can figure that out then determining the AoB will be easy after that.

You took a ranging with your stadimeter, and you have a bearing. That's all you need :)

If you zoom in on your map, you should have a bearing disc around your boat. Draw a straight line along the bearing you see him at, out to the distance you plugged in, and there ya go.

If you take multiple "snapshots" of his position, you can perform a rudimentary TMA (Target Motion Analysis) and that will give you his course, thereby allowing you to use your protractor and figuring out the AoB with 100% certainty (provided your measurements were correct with the stadimeter)

When it comes to tracking speed, I've been using the method to time how long it takes the ship to pass the crosshairs and that's been pretty accurate for me but depends entirely on being close enough to identify them to know the length of the ship I'm measuring. Again I believe understanding the above point will likely help with this also.

Try this- Take 2 measurements (or 3 or 4) about 30 seconds to a minute apart with the stadimeter (don't forget to use the recognition manual to select the right mast height!!!), then click your speed function and hit the stopwatch in there- that will get you a good estimate (or exact if your measurements are good enough!)

If you wind up with something like 275 knots, you messed up a little :)

Cool thing about doing this is while you bide your time waiting for the next time to raise your scope, you can look at your attack plot and plot his position (he was at bearing 300 at 1200m, so X goes here). Then pop your scope up a minute later, and you have another x. Connect the dots and you'll have your course, your AoB, and at the same time get your speed down. Torpedo solution ready, captain.


I've also been curious about escorts. I've read a few things on this board about them and I recall one set of pictures that showed early war destroyers ranges at about 120 feet yet there are numerous instances where I'm still being pinged at below 200. In regards to that I'm not entirely sure exactly how deep I can go. I believe the red water mark on the depth meter is somewhere around 300. I haven't tried to go beneath that point as I assume it'd be bad for me but I wonder if it's possible to go that low for any measure of time without getting stuck under. lol


The short answer is- that depends on your boat. Look at the tech specs for each boat, and use that.

If you're *damaged* however, you are in trouble. Never ever go down to test depth if you're damaged.


I'm also curious what effect speed has at those depths as there where numerous occasions where I was traveling at great depths and forgot to change from flank speed and used time compression. When doing that my ships would suddenly start taking a ton of damage and I couldn't identify a source as it doesn't appear to be a plane or destroyer and I was in very deep water so it wasn't the floor. I assume it was the constant speed at the pressure those depths bring that did me in? I'm nervous about using high speed when evading escorts while that's a possibility. lol

You went deep and it gradually squeezed your boat like an empty beer can. Better luck next time :)

Seriously, though, time compression while submerged is generally a bad idea.


So yea, I ramble a bit if you can't tell. lol. I'm using the stock game 1.5 U boat missions and any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm really trying to learn and you guys have provided some great vids and articles that have helped me a bunch already, but it's just those few points I can't grasp in the first place.

No worries, dude. It's how we learn. :)

[Way2co0l]

Thanks! I think you pretty much covered the area's I needed. I know it may seem silly but I'm really new to all of this period so I just need to understand the concepts first to really understand what's going on and I think you just helped me do that. Thanks again. :) Now to see what I can do with it. :arrgh!:

[Krauter]

What Fishie said was all spot on, but I'll try and give my perspective on the points you're asking.

Heya guys. I just started playing the game about a week ago and I'm having quite a lot of fun despite the fact that it's mostly an alien language to me so far. I really didn't find that the manual or in game tutorials properly explained the instruments and the proper way to utilize what's available to someone that has little prior knowledge of these things. I've spent a lot of time on this site (more then I've even been playing) watching the training videos and reading the documentation and it's helped me quite a bit but there are still a few things that I'm just not connecting the dots on and was hoping someone could help explain them to me. I know some of the questions are probably already answered and I overlooked them or simply didn't understand such is the case with a couple of the videos (the one that I thought would answer all of my questions had such horrible audio I simply couldn't make out what he was saying) so I apologize for any inconvenience.

First off welcome to SubSim!

One thing to know is that here in this forum is one of the most open and welcoming communities I personally have ever seen or met ever. Be you a newer player or a veteran of many patrols, there is such a deep knowledge base here that you're sure to learn something new every time you visit.

Ok, as I said I've already picked up on quite a bit and am now playing on 100 realism with the exception of the cams which I'm leaving on only to check on my shots after I make them to verify if what I did worked. I don't use them to do anything else. I am starting to have some luck getting the measurements right but these following points I'm really not fully grasping. (Most of it LOL)

One thing I may suggest is to not immediately jump in at 100% Realism, things like manual targetting, contacts off, Fuel/CO2/Battery you may want to gradually turn on when your comfortable with plotting reliable courses and managing your finite resources (fuel, batteries). Secondly, using contacts on while learning manual will help you a lot in learning how to plot targets. Use it as a verification tool (ie: make your own plots, and verify with contacts on). Gradually work your way into 100% realism and you'll enjoy the game alot more rather then jumping right in and struggling alot and getting tired of the concepts.

For one, the tool to check the distance on a ship after identifying it. There appears to be a slight graphical issue with the tips of the mast when lining the images up and I'm not sure if I should be waiting for that last portion of the mast to flicker into view and place the image at the absolute top of that or should I ignore the portion that's flickering out of view and focus solely on lining it up with the top of the mast that is constantly visible?

What your referring to is the stadimeter (tool on the periscope/UZO to check range). What you will learn about this tool is that the further you are from the target, the less accurate it becomes (thus graphical errors come more into play). Generally, I try not to use it within 1200yds of the target. To me it is more of a snapshot tool in the midst of a convoy where I poke the scope and and see a juicy target that needs torpedo treatment. Also, try to always use it within ~30 degrees of a perpendicular target (ie: Do not use it if your AOB [Angle on the Bow] is greater then 75-115 to Port or Starboard).

Second is the AoB I believe it's called? I believe it means angle of bearing? From what I believe I understand that's the angle the torp will impact the ship at from the current setup. My problem is I simply don't understand how to calculate it short of guesswork. My guessing has been getting better and I managed to get several sinkings last night but I'm sure there's got to be a more sound method to get a precise measurement without guesswork right?

As Fishie pointed to, AOB is simply Angle on the Bow. Basically, if you were sitting in the ship your targeting and you were to look directly at your submarines periscope, what bearing would you have to look out on?. Generally a good guesstimation works for snapshots of close ranges. However, as with all targetting in SH4, the further out you get, the more precise your measurements have to be. If you check the forums there are tons of guides to determining AOB with visual, sonar and radar tools. One of my favorites is WernerSobes Sonar only attack method using only sonar bearings to determine speed, AOB, range and course.

Another is in regards to tracking a ships position with the map. I have no clue what the conversion is between feet and NM's or how to properly use the tools (considering I'm not entirely sure I'm getting the distance right in the first place) so I'm really confused on how to properly note with any measure of certainty where on the map the targeted ship is in relation to me in order to track it's progress which I assume if I can figure that out then determining the AoB will be easy after that.

I myself have trouble with this :O: so I can't offer too much help here. But the basic meathod I use is to take multiple *timed* bearing checks (with sonar, visually or with radar) to determine what the target is doing. While doing this remember to mark down said bearing from you (helps alot of your sitting stationary) and make note of the time difference you took the bearings at (also try to use the same time difference ie: don't take a measurement every 5 minutes and then switch to every 10 minutes).

When it comes to tracking speed, I've been using the method to time how long it takes the ship to pass the crosshairs and that's been pretty accurate for me but depends entirely on being close enough to identify them to know the length of the ship I'm measuring. Again I believe understanding the above point will likely help with this also.

Using the bearing checking method I alluded to, as well as those you will learn in WernerSobes tutorial, you will learn to check speed easily. One way to do this, is to take a bearing check (make sure to know the range of the target) and wait 15 minutes to make another check (make sure to take range also). Now, multiply the distance between the two points by 4 and you have it's speed.

I've also been curious about escorts. I've read a few things on this board about them and I recall one set of pictures that showed early war destroyers ranges at about 120 feet yet there are numerous instances where I'm still being pinged at below 200. In regards to that I'm not entirely sure exactly how deep I can go. I believe the red water mark on the depth meter is somewhere around 300. I haven't tried to go beneath that point as I assume it'd be bad for me but I wonder if it's possible to go that low for any measure of time without getting stuck under. lol

The problem with this question is there are a TON of variables that come into play when dealing with escorts. Mainly, are you using any mods like TMO, RFB or vanilla game? Also, are you in shallow water, deep water, (storms, etc take effect when your using some mods also). Finally there are differences between Poor, to Elite crews (as well as Bungo Pete in TMO) that change escort AI. One thing to note is the type of escort your dealing with, Gunboats offer less chance of detection compared to Akizukis, subhunters, etc. Generally try to get below a layer and then run silent (50 rpms, check in your control room on the dials) and change the direction you were heading prior to crossing the layer.

Secondly, the depth you can go to depends mainly on the boat your using. Generally S-boats won't go under 250ft (if i recall.. haven't played in a while), compared to the Gatos and Balaos that can go 600ft+.Also, the deeper and longer you stay 'in the red' the more damage you do to your boat gradually over time which, when accumlated in enough quantities means you'll suddenly realise you can't go to the surface when you want to.

I'm also curious what effect speed has at those depths as there where numerous occasions where I was traveling at great depths and forgot to change from flank speed and used time compression. When doing that my ships would suddenly start taking a ton of damage and I couldn't identify a source as it doesn't appear to be a plane or destroyer and I was in very deep water so it wasn't the floor. I assume it was the constant speed at the pressure those depths bring that did me in? I'm nervous about using high speed when evading escorts while that's a possibility. lol

Generally speed does not dictate how much damage you take while submerged (unless there's escorts and you're detected ;) ). However, due to the limited amount of battery power you have, try not to over use the flank speed when submerged. For accumulated damage please see the above point

So yea, I ramble a bit if you can't tell. lol. I'm using the stock game 1.5 U boat missions and any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. I'm really trying to learn and you guys have provided some great vids and articles that have helped me a bunch already, but it's just those few points I can't grasp in the first place.

Thanks.

Really the game becomes truly magnificent once you start using Mods and it will greatly increase the number of functions and features available to you. Definately check out the Mods workshop area to get some great ideas on which ones to use. Also, it's a game so don't be afraid to use trial and error on some unescorted convoys or lone ships. You will eventually find a style of play that works for you and one that you enjoy.

Cheers and happy hunting!

Krauter

[Way2co0l]

Thanks very much for the welcome. :)

Couple things. You mention the stadimeter is more of a snapshot tool then rangefinder? The problem I seem to be having is getting an accurate read with the thing at all. I'm somewhere about 5k out on a Large Modern Composite yet the choppy seas and finding where to place the second image are producing wildly varying distances by as much as 1k between the two most extreme amounts of 4500 and 5500, which is also making that method of determining speed inaccurate with ranges from 40-100 knots. lol

Is there a better way to find range? I know you can with Sonar but I've read it's not so accurate all the time itself and I'm really not sure how easily I can get myself into trouble pinging other ships. Are merchants able to tell when I'm pinging them or is it only escorts? And how careful should I be about pinging with escorts nearby? Say there's no warship within 10 degrees (couldn't find the degree symbol on my keyboard) of the ship I'm pinging for distance, would would an escort beyond that range still detect what I'm doing?

For that matter, how high can I surface myself without making my sub profile too obvious? Do I always need to stay at periscope depth while occasionally peeking out to be safe or can I let myself rise 5-10 feet in choppy seas so the waves don't make it so difficult to get a proper reading. I understand the waves also make it harder for them to spot me but at such a range I don't think they'll spot my quick periscope peeks even if I raise it, but I'm unsure what the effect of decreasing my depth would do otherwise.

As to the realism stuff, I'm not really having trouble with most of it. Fuel, air, battery and all that are simple enough and in my early war campaign I'm having little trouble sneaking into convoys and escaping after my attack. I simply don't understand all of it yet but I've been having a lot of success with it anyway. My only problem is with feeding the info into the tdc for proper attacks once I sneak in because of the varying ranges I'm getting and the fact that I'm still having a tough time identifying the AoB. I understand it's my location from the perspective of their ship but it's tough to identify what that is. I find I'm miscalculating by some fairly large margins, by as much as 30-40 degrees.

I'm going to try rereading those tutorials you mentioned and see if they make more sense to me now. *crossing fingers* lol

And thanks again. I really appreciate the help. :salute:

Edit: Also, which mods would you really suggest? I haven't really taken much of a look there as I've been trying to get the basic fundamentals down before I really do anything else but plan to take a look once I do. :)

Edit Again: I looked up the tutorial you suggested and I agree it appears to explain everything I really need it to, except I'm having a problem making out half of what he's saying because his voice isn't very well contrasted to the game noise. There are entire portions of those 3 video's that I simply can't make out because I can't hear what he's saying. :(

I'm rewatching the sonar one and the sound for it doesn't seem as bad as it was for the first two video's so that's good. I actually think this video has helped me understand how it's done, at least under the assumption for sonar error. Definitely should help though. :) Now I'll just rewatch his earlier vids and see if I can understand the parts where I can't hear his explanation properly. Maybe it'll make more sense this time. :)

[Fishie]

Turn off the "no stabilize view" to help in a heavy sea. It may be a bit gamey, but for practicing your stadimeter work, there's no better aid.

Keep in mind that at long ranges, you're best bet is to get a feel for where he's heading, cut him off, and let him come to you. THEN once you have a good clear sight picture, start with the stadimeter work.

I use the stadimeter primarily as a targetting tool, and try to get the best solution I can with it. Some use it as a snapshot, some don't use it at all (Dick O'Kane method).

For me, I've learned to use it, and it serves me well. Your mileage may vary :)


Also, which mods would you really suggest? I haven't really taken much of a look there as I've been trying to get the basic fundamentals down before I really do anything else but plan to take a look once I do

I prefer the RFB (Real Fleet Boat) with the Run Silent, Run Deep campaign (RSRD).

Make sure you pick up the JGSME and read how to use it, though. That tool is a Godsend.

Welcome aboard :salute:

[Krauter]

Thanks very much for the welcome.

Couple things. You mention the stadimeter is more of a snapshot tool then rangefinder? The problem I seem to be having is getting an accurate read with the thing at all. I'm somewhere about 5k out on a Large Modern Composite yet the choppy seas and finding where to place the second image are producing wildly varying distances by as much as 1k between the two most extreme amounts of 4500 and 5500, which is also making that method of determining speed inaccurate with ranges from 40-100 knots. lol

What I mean by 'snapshot' tool is that I only usually use it under 1200yds (thus 5k is a tad far :)..) that is, I use it to get range for firing procedures.. but more for quick shots at close range rather then at long range where its readings can be spotty (and where other methods are better). Also, if you're in choppy seas, and the target is alone, surfact and use the UZO. If its in a convoy/escorted, raise yourself 5-10ft and you'll be good.. if you notice escorts coming after you, the game is up.

Is there a better way to find range? I know you can with Sonar but I've read it's not so accurate all the time itself and I'm really not sure how easily I can get myself into trouble pinging other ships. Are merchants able to tell when I'm pinging them or is it only escorts? And how careful should I be about pinging with escorts nearby? Say there's no warship within 10 degrees (couldn't find the degree symbol on my keyboard) of the ship I'm pinging for distance, would would an escort beyond that range still detect what I'm doing?

For myself, stadimeter (at -1200yds/ sonar for longshots/ tripwire technique [can't remember finer details haven't played in 4 months..]) are the main ways I use to target ships and get their range (tripwire does not take into account range). Also, to get range with sonar, do not use the first reading, take a good 4-5 pings and take the medium or the most consistent range you get. If you are running stock game, pinging (to my experience) does not give off your position, however with other mods you must be careful.

For that matter, how high can I surface myself without making my sub profile too obvious? Do I always need to stay at periscope depth while occasionally peeking out to be safe or can I let myself rise 5-10 feet in choppy seas so the waves don't make it so difficult to get a proper reading. I understand the waves also make it harder for them to spot me but at such a range I don't think they'll spot my quick periscope peeks even if I raise it, but I'm unsure what the effect of decreasing my depth would do otherwise.

As I said above, if its a lone merchant, just surface and make use of superior speed. If not, raise yourself 5-10 feet (check on external.. the top of your bridge may protrude.. this is a tad too high). Alternatively, you can run decks awash.

As to the realism stuff, I'm not really having trouble with most of it. Fuel, air, battery and all that are simple enough and in my early war campaign I'm having little trouble sneaking into convoys and escaping after my attack. I simply don't understand all of it yet but I've been having a lot of success with it anyway. My only problem is with feeding the info into the tdc for proper attacks once I sneak in because of the varying ranges I'm getting and the fact that I'm still having a tough time identifying the AoB. I understand it's my location from the perspective of their ship but it's tough to identify what that is. I find I'm miscalculating by some fairly large margins, by as much as 30-40 degrees.

One tactic that may help you, is to run parallel on the surface to the convoy and get their general direction. After you've established their course, run AHEAD of the convoy maybe 5-10 kms submerge and point yourself 90degrees towards their estimated track and shut your engines off. Now they will just come to you also giving you more time to input your data and take multiple readings :D

I'm going to try rereading those tutorials you mentioned and see if they make more sense to me now. *crossing fingers* lol

And thanks again. I really appreciate the help.

Cheers!

Edit: Also, which mods would you really suggest? I haven't really taken much of a look there as I've been trying to get the basic fundamentals down before I really do anything else but plan to take a look once I do.

Personally, and when I was running SH4, I used TMO (TriggerMaruOverhauled) with RSRDC (RunSilentRunDeepCampaign). TMO will give you a lot of new features and depicts realistic submarine warfare, HOWEVER, TMO is also geared towards more advanced players, or those who wish for more difficult encounters. RFB on the other hand is also an excellent mod and strives for true realism meaning it is not excessively difficult (within historical parameters). RSRDC also cleans up the campaign making it a lot more historical, meaning, if you sit off of Midway at the correct date, you can run into the task force heading there. Among others, there are graphical updates, weather fixes, etc. The amount of mods are mindboggling. Take a look at the Mods section in the forum and you'll be sure to find something that turns your crank.

Edit Again: I looked up the tutorial you suggested and I agree it appears to explain everything I really need it to, except I'm having a problem making out half of what he's saying because his voice isn't very well contrasted to the game noise. There are entire portions of those 3 video's that I simply can't make out because I can't hear what he's saying.

If you want to post here, or in PM what you didn't understand in the video (indicate segments of the video you dont understand, or principles you don't under stand and I'll do my best to help :)

I'm rewatching the sonar one and the sound for it doesn't seem as bad as it was for the first two video's so that's good. I actually think this video has helped me understand how it's done, at least under the assumption for sonar error. Definitely should help though. Now I'll just rewatch his earlier vids and see if I can understand the parts where I can't hear his explanation properly. Maybe it'll make more sense this time.

If you want to post here, or in PM what you didn't understand in the video (indicate segments of the video you dont understand, or principles you don't under stand and I'll do my best to help :)

Cheers! :D

[Way2co0l]

Thanks again guys. I'm messing with stuff to see if I can figure it out and can't seem to figure out how to alter my range circle once I place it. I seem to have to remove the old one and place a new one. I can move the old one, I just can't seem to alter the range it shows. lol.

Anyway, you both mention sitting in position ahead of the targets but how does that work in a convoy situation? It seems to me that if you setup ahead of the targets line waiting for them to come into position then you're going to be exposing your side to the lead escort the entire time which would likely result in an easy sniff for them I'd assume. So far whenever I've been approaching a convoy I generally have to take a wider angle on it at first before turning into the lead escort which ultimately presents a narrow profile while bringing me behind him but still quite ahead of any flanking escorts, but to do so I can't just sit entirely still or I'll fall behind and into the flanking escorts path. That usually puts me in a good position to strike and plenty of time to maneuver out of danger after I hit.

The problem is just the measurements to hit. I've rewatched the video's a few more times now and I think I've pieced together most of what he was saying so I think I might be able to pull it off. That is once I become more comfortable with the tools as my trouble expanding the circular range tool demonstrates. lol. I just need to practice and mess around with them more to get it straight I think.

Not entirely sure what decks awash is or what it's purpose is? lol. I'm that much of a noob. :rotfl2:

I'll take a look at the mods you guys mentioned later tonight. I think I'll practice the convoy raiding training and see if I can manage to hit anything without too much blind luck. hehe

[Krauter]

Thanks again guys. I'm messing with stuff to see if I can figure it out and can't seem to figure out how to alter my range circle once I place it. I seem to have to remove the old one and place a new one. I can move the old one, I just can't seem to alter the range it shows. lol.

If you click on the inside of the circle you'll be able to move it, click on the outside (the arrow that you had to drag initially to get the range you wanted) and you'll be able to change the range you wanted.

Anyway, you both mention sitting in position ahead of the targets but how does that work in a convoy situation? It seems to me that if you setup ahead of the targets line waiting for them to come into position then you're going to be exposing your side to the lead escort the entire time which would likely result in an easy sniff for them I'd assume. So far whenever I've been approaching a convoy I generally have to take a wider angle on it at first before turning into the lead escort which ultimately presents a narrow profile while bringing me behind him but still quite ahead of any flanking escorts, but to do so I can't just sit entirely still or I'll fall behind and into the flanking escorts path. That usually puts me in a good position to strike and plenty of time to maneuver out of danger after I hit.

The reason we do this with engines off is, 1) Escorts won't find what they can't hear; 2) You don't sit at Periscope depth, the whole time, you sit at 100ft and wait for the convoy to pass overhead (go to 100ft once you deem the escorts are too close).

The problem is just the measurements to hit. I've rewatched the video's a few more times now and I think I've pieced together most of what he was saying so I think I might be able to pull it off. That is once I become more comfortable with the tools as my trouble expanding the circular range tool demonstrates. lol. I just need to practice and mess around with them more to get it straight I think.

Practise and experiment :)

Not entirely sure what decks awash is or what it's purpose is? lol. I'm that much of a noob.

Nothing wrong with this; decks awash is simply submerging (not completely) so that you have water running over your decks buck you can still control your boat from the bridge. The advantages are increased speeds (over submerged, your using diesels), quicker dives then being fully surfaced, easier to make visual contacts. The disadvantages are it guzzles fuel, and a little easier to detect as well as not fully being able to use your sonar.

Cheers!

Krauter

[Way2co0l]

Awesome that worked. You guys are seriously great! :)

About the escorts though, I know they can listen just like the sub can so if I'm making little noise it's difficult to hear it, but their sonar pings can pick you up at anytime right? That's why I'd assume it's such a bad position to sit with your side pointing straight at them while they're approaching as it provides a large target for their pings to hit off of. And as I said earlier, I've had them ping me at some pretty deep depths, between 100-160 feet isn't always safe by the feel of it. I've even had them ping me below the layer as low as 260 feet. I've never tried deeper then that. I forget which sub I'm using. Not the porpoise and not the one after that. I think it might be the Sargo class. Not entirely sure how deep she can go without damage but perhaps I'll test that out sometime. :)

But anyway, I just sank the one large freighter in a convoy and am attempting to duck away from their escorts and put myself into a position to shadow them until I can get into a position I can strike from again. I'm curious what the measurements translate to. From the video it sounded as if every 2000 yards equaled a NM? Is that correct? Also I think he measured nautical miles traveled to equate into knots, but I want to be sure. Lets say a ship travels 1 NM between the time I first checked him and the second. How do I translate that properly into an actual speed?

Also, I've read some of the issues with the early torpedoes and I've restricted myself to contact only detonations almost exclusively and keeping the depth at bout 5-10 feet above the bottom of their ship. That's called the keel right? I believe that's cut down on the premature detonations I've had and you'll have more duds when firing with fast speed but it'll give them less time to spot and evade them. Obviously all shots should be as close to 90 as possible. Does that all sound about right?

[Way2co0l]

Another question in regards to spending renown. I know I'm a long way off from getting there but when I do, if I spend it for something like a torpedo, is the cost per torp? So a cutie would be 500 for each torp you buy and when you restock it'd be another 500 each?

[Krauter]

About the escorts though, I know they can listen just like the sub can so if I'm making little noise it's difficult to hear it, but their sonar pings can pick you up at anytime right? That's why I'd assume it's such a bad position to sit with your side pointing straight at them while they're approaching as it provides a large target for their pings to hit off of. And as I said earlier, I've had them ping me at some pretty deep depths, between 100-160 feet isn't always safe by the feel of it. I've even had them ping me below the layer as low as 260 feet. I've never tried deeper then that. I forget which sub I'm using. Not the porpoise and not the one after that. I think it might be the Sargo class. Not entirely sure how deep she can go without damage but perhaps I'll test that out sometime.

The thing is, escorts won't usually ping you unless they know you're there. Also, you can make a variation on this technique by pointing yourself towards the escorts and the once they pass turn towards the convoy. I just prefer to sit under and broadside to them as it takes less time to fire and evade.

But anyway, I just sank the one large freighter in a convoy and am attempting to duck away from their escorts and put myself into a position to shadow them until I can get into a position I can strike from again. I'm curious what the measurements translate to. From the video it sounded as if every 2000 yards equaled a NM? Is that correct? Also I think he measured nautical miles traveled to equate into knots, but I want to be sure. Lets say a ship travels 1 NM between the time I first checked him and the second. How do I translate that properly into an actual speed?

I myself do not know the conversion to changes yds into NMs but with a quick check you can find that out. Congratulations by the way on the kill :) The way you measure speed is by taking into account distance travelled by the timeframe it took. For example, if in 15 minutes you measured your target ad travelled 1 NM, he would obviously be going 4 knts (nautical miles per hour). Thus, usually try to take readings between times you can quickly multiply to an hour (ie: 5,10,15, etc minutes.)

Also, I've read some of the issues with the early torpedoes and I've restricted myself to contact only detonations almost exclusively and keeping the depth at bout 5-10 feet above the bottom of their ship. That's called the keel right? I believe that's cut down on the premature detonations I've had and you'll have more duds when firing with fast speed but it'll give them less time to spot and evade them. Obviously all shots should be as close to 90 as possible. Does that all sound about right?

Sounds about right to me, HOWEVER. With contact pistol set on, make sure to set the depth as high as you can (keel shots are for magnetic torpedos). Also, by 1943 most if not all preemy's or duds will have been sorted out.

Cheers!

Krauter

[Way2co0l]

Also it seems they can track your sonar pings pretty well in stock. I've pinged a few escorts to see how much distance I was gaining on them and they seem to be following to the locations I pinged from and dropping charges. I can hear the charges dropping into the water and exploding with sonar. Pretty cool actually, and I think I'm going to stop pinging them now. lol. Wish I had kept track of where the convoy was at because it's looking pretty defenseless right now. lol.

[RodBorza]

Hey man,

Welcome aboard.
For what I can see is that you've already have plenty of help.
But to help you a little bit further, here my two cents:
- First, be it stock or modded, you don't want to ping convoy with escorts, or the destroyers directly as you are doing. Don't do it! Ever! Otherwise they'll come for you. I for one, usually use the active sonar when I have only one ship and it is bad weather.

- I also play with 90% realism, and besides being a veteran in this series, I consider myself to be an intermediate level skipper (cams and map updates on). So if you are starting ate 100% realism that's very dificult. You'd have to manually set and plot the enemy ships course and speed. I don't do it because your workload is already too big and when you are intercepting and doing an attack on convoys things start to happen pretty fast. So I leave it in auto. I like to think that I have a very good XO and a highly trained crew to keep me updated.

- TC can be your best friend and your worst enemy depending how you use it. I usually TC up to 2048. My computer can do better but I think it's a nice speed for the computer to process things when an event happens.
Use TC when cruising through vast extensions of water in the surface. Only use TC submerged if you are cruising, like AFTER escaping an air attack, then you can accelerate the time until it gets dark and you can surface again. When diving or surfacing, if there's no enemy presence around, I TC up to 32 times; if there's enemy (air or surface) I never, ever TC! Why? Because things will happen too fast, and that DD that you thought was way out of range can and will get your position and will start to drop charges at you.

- A good thing about TC is that it can help you locate enemy ships. When you are cruising in 2048 the clock will appear. Keep an eye on that clock. Regardless of the time compression used, if the clock stutters, it means that something is near you. It can be a plane, an enemy ship or even a battery shore. Then it's a good time to go back to normal speed, dive to at least to periscope depth and manually do a search in your sonar array. Many and many times you'll get contacts that your sonar guy can't detect. This little trick works when you are patrolling for two/three weeks without a contact and wants to find something to sink and fast!

- About DD evasion, don't you ever use time compression. Let's say that you did an attack run on a convoy. And now your are being chased. There's a lot of tips and tactics in how to evade DD's, but the point in case here is that you'll have to be patient. So, if you are tired, sleepy, in a hurry or worried with something else, save your game and turn it off. DD evasion usually takes me around one or two hours to sucessfully evade them and get underway.

- Download and read the Silent Hunter 1 manual. It's very comphreensive and gives you a boat load of information that you don't find on the SH4 manual. Good old times when game manuals were that detailed. You can find it in here:
http://www.filefront.com/16158251/Silent%20Hunter%20Manual.pdf

- And last, but not least, have fun! Although many here are very serious about this sim, with tactics and mods and real charts and everything, in the end it's a game. So, if you are having too much difficulty and to much work and is getting nowhere, relax. Start slowly and increase the settings with time.

Good hunting!

[Way2co0l]

Thanks for the welcome and the tips. :)

I know I'm kind of biting off a lot but I really love the deep immersive types of games with steeper learning curvs, though I usually stick to large scale strategy type games such as hearts of iron, victoria, and europa universalis. My experience is usually in the area of managing the resources, but I thought it'd be cool to actually get in and get a feel for what it's like at the tactical and functional level. Sadly that's an area I have no real knowledge of. LOL. I'll get better though. I probably will turn on sea contacts so I can compare my work to them to see how far I'm off and in which ways so I can correct the problem more.

But like you said, I realized pinging escorts was definitely attracting their attention but my question is how much can I get away with if I wanted to? Is there any angle, where there are no escorts within that angle, for a ping that I'll be safe at? Otherwise I'm really not sure how I can establish any kind of range once I get too close for radar but while I'm still too far out to get reliable ranges from the mast range tool. On that matter, is the enemy able to detect when I'm using radar at all?

But I'm definitely having fun. It's been tough to come in and try to do it with nearly no basic knowledge beforehand but I'm confident I'll get it all sorted in time and you guys have been great. :) Just a matter of learning and experiencing now, but definitely a lot of fun.

Last night I picked up a couple warships and attempted to close the distance while I tried to determine their course so I could get a visual and decide what to do from there. It was late and there was a heavy fog and I managed to spot them from a much larger range (according to my sonar pings) then I usually would have in those conditions so it made me assume they were larger ships. They appeared to have many mast similarities to Ise battleships but I had a hard time believing two of those were sailing about unescorted so I kept looking. I also found a couple cruisers that somewhat matched the look of what I was seeing so I went with that. The really curious thing was I was only able to get a sonar sniff on the trailing one. The one at the head was leaving no apparent sonar trail for me to track except visually and they where both going at a very high speed. Much more then I could hope to intercept without surfacing so I did. I figured even if they spotted me I could get them into evasive maneuvers which would ultimately slow their progress down enough for me to get into an interceptable position and then it'd be good practice to see if I could manage any hits on targets attempting to dodge.

Well I do that and they're simply going so freaking fast I have a real tough time getting ahead of them. I believe surfaced at flank I was making 23 knotts. They had to be over 20 themselves, and still no sonar noise from the lead one. That as weird as it seems to me? Well after a long time attempting to get into better position, about 5k off of them with the dark of night, rough seas and heavy fog keeping me hidden to that point I started lowering myself to try to get early stadimeter readings. The problem is they where all far off of what my Sonar was telling me. As much as 9k whereas sonar was telling me 5k. I started looking through the possible ship types again at the smaller destroyers and such and couldn't identify any that resembled the targets better then the cruisers, and couldn't believe I would have initially spotted something as small from that initial distance in the fog anyway so I assumed I was just taking the readings wrong and kept at it. I just couldn't seem to get the readings to get any more accurate until finally I was close enough to get a much better view. Turns out I was wrong all along and they where a destroyer and the lead ship was something even smaller though I forget what. Gunboat or something.

Anticlimatic I know. lol. But you play and you learn and I need to become acquainted with ship profiles more to make better guesses at what I'm looking at. It's all about learning and I'm having fun doing it. I'll have even more fun when I actually do it right! lol.

Cheers guys and thanks again. Going to check out the mods now and see what I want to do then start a new campaign to start with them and see what I can do. :)

[Way2co0l]

I've been looking through the mods and I don't want to go with too many off the bat to avoid unknowingly creating conflicts since I don't really know what all is compatible with what so I'm thinking I'll probably keep it simple with RFB and RSRD for now and maybe look at TMO and other mods later.

Edit: NVM, figured it out. :)

[RodBorza]

Do that!. Try them out.
They are very nice.
Very shalow and generally speaking: RFB makes the boat more "realistic", TMO makes the overall sim more difficult. What adds up to this is that with both mods you'll have to play more realistic. Think more strategically, pay attention to every detail in order not to make mistakes. Both of them forces you to account for lack of boat maneuverability, more realistic scorts and enemy behavior among other things.

Regarding your last post, if your trying to get measurements out of the stadimeter...hmmm...I got say that's really difficult to accomplish. First because the japanese destroyer models variety is very big and it is very hard to tell one from another. As I use TMO, in there is this nice tool ("cheat") that is the Identify Target button. That surely helps me a lot.

And more importantly than that, is NOT using the stadimeter. It's, in the game, is very imprecise. Controling it with the mouse, in a small picture, in the sim is very cumbersome. As you watched in the videos, taking measurements with it is not necessary at all to get a shot at.

However I'm not saying that you should'nt try doing it if you are playing with map updates off. I think if you are up to the challenge go for it. Just remember the limitations of the tools that the game gives us. And after you get the hang out of it, good hunting!

[Armistead]

Learn all methods. I spent months setting up OKanes, Vectors, ect, but seldom do now. The problem I have with those attacks is they fix you to a course often leaving a flank exposed. A 45 attack is better, but still fixes you to a course.

I play with cams off now all the time, contacts about 50%, with both off you'll need that stad.

I use the stad all the time now where I once frowned on it, you can get precise measurements within 3000 yards. You can also load maxoptics and SCAF, gives you more mag and better aiming points. Easy AOB is another great mod allowing you full range and rotation of the PK. Two good stad measures ask for speed, you'll get speed and course, set the AOB on the PK to the course and you have a near perfect AOB.

The main thing is to learn them all as they all have a place.

[Mescator]

And more importantly than that, is NOT using the stadimeter. It's, in the game, is very imprecise. Controling it with the mouse, in a small picture, in the sim is very cumbersome. As you watched in the videos, taking measurements with it is not necessary at all to get a shot at.

I disagree there. I've been using the Stadimeter since i was a newby and it's accurate when your at a reasonable range (Under say 4000). Obviously it's sketchy beyond that, but as a tool i don't think it should be dismissed that easily, especially since it's a very fast tool to use once you have the hang of it.

[Way2co0l]

Thanks again guys. :) I haven't had much time to mess around the last few days but firing it back up tonight to experiment some more. I started a campaign using the pre-pearl harbor mod that's supposed to be compatible with the other two major mods I'm using (RFB and RSRD). Starting in a Tambor class so I can benefit from 6 forward torps. Off the coast of Japan now which is where my patrol was but not finding any shipping at all yet and under 70% fuel (to be safe I'll be turning back once fuel drops below 35%) so I'm contemplating trying to sneak into a harbor or rather heading south towards the China Sea. Hopefully I'll manage to find something so I can continue to get practice in. :)