A Third Political Party in America

[The Third Man]

Many have wanted a third party in America for various reasons. It would seem the Tea Party is emerging as just that. With its own convention, platform and candidates.

It may upset the traditional Dem-Rep monopoly on politics in America. Time will tell.

http://www.myteapartyconvention.com/Home_Page.html

[tater]

Decent sized third parties have a descriptor: spoiler.

That's it. To the extent the TP is conservative (smaller, less intrusive federal government, they standard since Washington and Jefferson), they will simply cause democratic victory. Democrat supermajorites can result in things getting so broken they cannot be fixed (same can happen in the other direction).

A large 3d party IMHO means 1-party rule on the side most against the 3d party.

[AVGWarhawk]

Decent sized third parties have a descriptor: spoiler.

Independents have done this for a long time.

[Ducimus]

I never did like the tea party.


I'd be all about the America First party, but the problem is, they want to ramrod Jesus down everyone's throats, and tell women what they can't do to their own bodies.
http://www.americafirstparty.org/docs/principles.shtml

I can live with the pro life stance, but the praise Jesus bit would have to go to gain my support.

[Sailor Steve]

Given the history of parties in this country, it will either die out or replace one of the others. We don't seem to be able to maintain more than two.

The founders claimed they didn't want parties at all. It took them less than twenty years to have two in place.

[tater]

I actually think that anything in law that recognizes or aids parties should be abolished.

Take primaries, for example.

A party is simply a "club," IMHO. How a party choses who will represent it is an internal matter to the party, and as far as I'm concerned should be entirely outside ANY government involvement. That means no polling places run by the State, etc. The entirety of the cost should be set/paid by the parties themselves, and whatever means they chose to elect a candidate... up to them. That includes who gets to vote. State laws that allow people to vote in a primary that are not party members? No, not unless the party wishes this to be the case.

[Sailor Steve]

I'd call that a good start. :sunny:

[Rilder]

There shouldn't be ANY political parties.

[the_tyrant]

There shouldn't be ANY political parties.

and then what?
Absolute monarchy?
Anarchy?

[tater]

There shouldn't be ANY political parties.

So you'd ban 2 people standing around agreeing about anything political?

[Platapus]

There shouldn't be ANY political parties.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

We may hate political parties, but there is little we can do about them.

Abolish the Republican Party and like minded people will form another group and call it something else. The result? No change.

The solution is not to abolish political parties but to educate the citizens to not rely on them or give them power.

The problem is that many citizens are quite happy being told what to think and how to vote by their respective political party. :shifty:

[Stealth Hunter]

and then what?
Absolute monarchy?
Anarchy?

Be a little more overly-dramatic, why don't you.

So you'd ban 2 people standing around agreeing about anything political?

That's not the same as sophisticatedly organizing yourself into a political clique that actively serves in the government of not only each and every state, but ultimately the entire country, with an outlined agenda- protecting and serving its own interests.

The solution is not to abolish political parties but to educate the citizens to not rely on them or give them power.

The problem is that many citizens are quite happy being told what to think and how to vote by their respective political party. :shifty:

With many more citizens being happy to vote for whatever candidate best represents their own personal interests. The costs of a bad vote are borne by the public at large, and the chance of an individual casting the deciding vote is, unfortunately, tiny. People will vote for what makes them feel good and what benefits them. Honestly, they couldn't care less about much else. Though many are ignorant and irrational, many are self-serving and conniving.:nope:

But as far as the OP is concerned, I favor Washington's views on political parties:

"They serve to organize faction, to give it an artificial and extraordinary force; to put, in the place of the delegated will of the nation, the will of a party, often a small but artful and enterprising minority of the community; and, according to the alternate triumphs of different parties, to make the public administration the mirror of the ill-concerted and incongruous projects of faction, rather than the organ of consistent and wholesome plans digested by common counsels, and modified by mutual interests."His words were quite prophetic, looking at the current situation we find ourselves in (and have found ourselves in the past 20-25 years or so). Moreover, the problem extends not only to the parties themselves, but the the political system. It is made too much like a profession and not like what it should be: a public service. It should be treated no different than jury duty, and that goes not only for the Congress and Legislative Branch, but for the Supreme Court and Judicial Branch, and the White House and Executive Branch.

Ultimately, they do more harm than good by dividing not only people, but the framework that our country is supposed to be running off of. And clearly, as I said earlier, this has been the case in recent times. Getting rid of the current ones won't do anything. New ones will just appear. As has been before in the past, so shall be in the future. Unless we disband them altogether. Either that, or we change our system.

[the_tyrant]

Be a little more overly-dramatic, why don't you.

Almost every form of government has political parties
Hitler is a Nazi, Kim Jiong Il is a commie
I really can't think of a type of government except absolute monarchy and anarchy that doesn't have political parties

edit: i can think of one more, the republics of ancient greece didn't have parties

[Stealth Hunter]

Almost every form of government has political parties
Hitler is a Nazi, Kim Jiong Il is a commie
I really can't think of a type of government except absolute monarchy and anarchy that doesn't have political parties

edit: i can think of one more, the republics of ancient greece didn't have parties

Our own country didn't have any political parties until 1794, with the founded establishment of the Federalists. And then, we had the Anti-Federalists spring into existence. I assume you can figure what their concerns revolved around therein...

Little has changed in tone since then. What one party says, the other opposes. Back and forth and back and forth.

[Penguin]

I actually think that anything in law that recognizes or aids parties should be abolished.

Take primaries, for example.

A party is simply a "club," IMHO. How a party choses who will represent it is an internal matter to the party, and as far as I'm concerned should be entirely outside ANY government involvement. That means no polling places run by the State, etc. The entirety of the cost should be set/paid by the parties themselves, and whatever means they chose to elect a candidate... up to them. That includes who gets to vote. State laws that allow people to vote in a primary that are not party members? No, not unless the party wishes this to be the case.

100% agreed!
Very interesting, didn't know that the government or states subside primaries! :o However I was under the assumption that the parties in each state can choose wheather to allow non-party-members to vote on the primaries.

In Germany the party elections are a more or less internal matter which happen in private or rented rooms (halls). BUT - at least in the federal and european parliament elections - every party gets money for each vote they get - about 70 eurocent (which are 573$ US :03:)

[Armistead]

I'm to the point I would settle for a honest King or Queen.

I would call myself conservative but the GOP has become a group of elitist.
I guess the Dems are elitist too, but will throw some social crumbs at people to get votes. In the early 70's 56% of Americans held about 80% of all wealth, now about 8% of people hold 80% of all wealth as the GOP sold their souls to corporations. Trickle down doesn't work in a global economy and it won't be long until were a two class soceity with class warfare and China once again will be the world power.

[Penguin]

well isn't a monarchy an even more elitist club? :O:
I agree on the subject, my numbers are a bit lower, with the richest 10% having 50% of the wealth in 2007. Here's a link to a study : http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/saez-UStopincomes-2007.pdf (http://elsa.berkeley.edu/%7Esaez/saez-UStopincomes-2007.pdf) (yeah I know it's Berkeley) The graph on page 6 is quite interesting!
edit: the numbers don't have to contradict, as this study shows the share of income, while imo wealth is also measured in possession.

If the US should want a king there is only one man to appoint: Mojo Nixon! :DL
Hail to the king! :salute:

[Armistead]

Let's face it, these two ideals hate each other, the days of Reagan and Tip O' Neal are gone. All our politicians are bought and paid for and America is now a Corporate State. We've become like a Church in government, the Pastor may speak, but it's that group of Deacons hiding in the back room making all the calls.

Regardless of the numbers, most economic brains says we'll be a two class soceity in 20 years or less, just depends on how fast and bad the next finiancial meltdowns happen and they're gonna happen.

SS will be gone
Medicare will be gone
Only about 30% of Americans will have insurance, government and corporate employees.

Yet at the same time corporations will prosper on a global level as never seen and like it or not the GOP is the cause of the corporate takeover of America. In the past Corporations got rich, but the wealth was spread somewhat, what dumbass GOP members don't get...it's not trickling down to Americans, it's trickling down to India, China and other 3rd world nations. There's a reason we fight long dumb wars, corporations get rich.
We don't believe in victory anymore, we believe in nation building.

Sure, the GOP wants to bring God back to government, they need the tools of fear and guilt to control weak minds. They talk of God, but you hear nothing of any real principles of the bible, take care of the poor, sick, widows, ect...Sure, if you can work and don't...screw you, but millions of Americans are being screwed paying into systems that never work. Just had a friend die of a nerve disease about 6 months ago why waiting for 4 years to get approved for SS that he paid into for 40 years. Funny, he got his approval letter in the mail two months after he died.

[Penguin]

Sorry to hear about your friend, Armistead! :nope:
This is one of the reasons why I think that the US should give UHC a try.
Can you **** up the health system even more? With the help of the right politicians and lobby groups: certainly - don't get me started with the german system.
Is the health system today unjust, unaffordable and unfair? Certainly, so why not try something new?

Back to topic: a third party could be the chance to break the crusty two-party system and bring in some more competition. Britain is an example where it worked, despite the efforts of the big parties to keep others out. The election system in the UK which supports the big dogs was the most obvious of these efforts. Though I have the prejudice that the (few) Americans who vote, vote more on topics (or persons) than on parties - at least when compared to here.

[Armistead]

If people knew how corrupt these government programs and insurance companies are I think we would riot. I've lived with a nerve disease for years and work with many groups and forums concerning ill people. I've helped many people work through insurance plans, disability plans, SS and medicare and the system is criminal. These people pay into these plans for many years only to find them almost impossible to get unless they're on their deathbed.

The last year I worked with a lady that actually had a good disability plan and lived off it for 4 years, until her Ins. carrier made her take a function test. Insurance corps give these test just to deny. The test are given by insurance comp PT's, not Doctors. She was able to pick up macoroni so they denied her, meaning she had to go through all the red tape to fight to get it back, takes about 2 years. The problem is once she lost her disability, she couldn't pay for her insurance, so her Doctors dropped her. To get her disability back she needed her Doctors to support her, but can't pay them, they could care less, so no help. Obvious she was fighting to go on SS and medicare, but here in NC it takes years, no judges. She got little care at a state hospital. She had severe aplastic anemia that required special IV"S monthly, expensive IV's. She lost everything, her home and went on welfare. She finally died 42 years old with 2 teens living in severe pain and poverty. Well, at least her insurance carrier increased their profits.

Everyday thousands of Americans live in torture because they have no medical care. Try getting help at a state run hospital if you have a chronic illness...forget it. I've known many over the years that hurt so bad they finally blow their heads off.


In war we had the big debate on torturing our enemies and most say torture is wrong, even if a good thing resulted from it. So why we won't torture our enemies, we have no problem letting millions of americans suffer untold pain and death so a group of CEO's can add more to their bottom lines...You would think after you have a few billion you would grow a heart, or buy one.

Course if your a enemy in Gitmo or a criminal in jail, you'll get all the health care you need at no cost...