Video: Collision games in the East China Sea

[TLAM Strike]

http://www.informationdissemination.net/2010/11/chinese-japanese-diplomatic-hurricane.html

[Buddahaid]

Woderful. The Chinese boat clearly rams intentionally the first time. I feel really sorry the Chinese don't like the video proving who the aggressor is here.

[CCIP]

Yikes, talk about an obvious provocation :-?

[the_tyrant]

my Chinese buddies says that since the island belongs to mainland china, the Chinese boat was simply "defending the mother land"
If we ignore sovereignty over the island, the whole thing was simply a traffic accident

[CCIP]

If we ignore sovereignty over the island, the whole thins was simply a traffic accident

haha, "accident". I think the video rather suggests the opposite.

Fishing boats also don't really have authority to "defend the motherland" anywhere. Even given the extremely disputed nature of the territory involved, the moment they started ramming they ceased to function as a fishing boat and became, for all purposes, a belligerent vessel posing as one. And that is a major provocation.

[the_tyrant]

haha, "accident". I think the video rather suggests the opposite.

Fishing boats also don't really have authority to "defend the motherland" anywhere. Even given the extremely disputed nature of the territory involved, the moment they started ramming they ceased to function as a fishing boat and became, for all purposes, a belligerent vessel posing as one. And that is a major provocation.


well I don't have a better term for it
But its simply a "boat crash"
the only reason that this case gets so much attention is the location of the incident

if some random guy rammed the US coast guard off California, it wouldn't get nearly as much publicity

[CCIP]

if some random guy rammed the US coast guard off California, it wouldn't get nearly as much publicity

Yes, because the guy ramming the US coast guard off California probably wouldn't be trying to provoke an international sh**storm :roll:

I mean, of course the politics has to be there. This wouldn't be a big deal if tensions weren't already high between China and Japan. Sadly here we have China showing that they're only interested in fanning these tensions.

[the_tyrant]

Yes, because the guy ramming the US coast guard off California probably wouldn't be trying to provoke an international sh**storm :roll:

I mean, of course the politics has to be there. This wouldn't be a big deal if tensions weren't already high between China and Japan. Sadly here we have China showing that they're only interested in fanning these tensions.

Technically, China does not support this
you are not allowed to discuss this on any forum, and you can get your blog banned if you discuss this

but you know, its the internet. When did censorship ever work here?

[CCIP]

Oh indeed. If there's someone who is terrified of Chinese nationalism, it's the Chinese government/communist party. They're not shy to use it when they can channel it into the international arena, but they're obviously scared of it getting out of control at home, for obvious reasons.

This particular show was mostly for an international audience, in an effort to paint the Japanese as the bad guys and help drum up support for their own claim to the islands. Japan have also been eager to hush this up, of course, because they don't want either their own nationalists to start screaming over the islands, or to risk business with China that is vitally important to the country. It's a tricky game for them - they can't afford to lose either the claim to the islands, or that business with China, so they keep dancing around that line in an effort to keep both as much as possible.

[Castout]

What collision?!

They just wanted to play bumper cars on the sea . . . .:DL

[TLAM Strike]

Fishing boats also don't really have authority to "defend the motherland" anywhere. Chinese fisherman like to play at being a military force a lot...

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6366/minesb.jpg

[the_tyrant]

Oh indeed. If there's someone who is terrified of Chinese nationalism, it's the Chinese government/communist party. They're not shy to use it when they can channel it into the international arena, but they're obviously scared of it getting out of control at home, for obvious reasons.

This particular show was mostly for an international audience, in an effort to paint the Japanese as the bad guys and help drum up support for their own claim to the islands. Japan have also been eager to hush this up, of course, because they don't want either their own nationalists to start screaming over the islands, or to risk business with China that is vitally important to the country. It's a tricky game for them - they can't afford to lose either the claim to the islands, or that business with China, so they keep dancing around that line in an effort to keep both as much as possible.

Well actually the China communist party is terrified, the plan didn't work out well
since the anti-japan rallies turned into mass violence and lawlessness
And yep, it is a tricky game. The economies of the 2 countries are way too connected

[the_tyrant]

Chinese fisherman like to play at being a military force a lot...

http://img40.imageshack.us/img40/6366/minesb.jpg

They also tail american ships that deploy sonar, they take them as soon as the Americans deploy them

[CCIP]

Chinese fisherman like to play at being a military force a lot...

Yep, not all that unusual I imagine. Not that there is anything wrong with enlisting civilian vessels for military purposes per se, the problem lies in covering up that role and insisting that they're not military auxiliaries, but just nice little fishing boats, when they get held up. Of course, this is such an ancient trick it's not even worth going into - everyone involved in politics at sea has done this type of thing before, and in war time these rule books just go right out the window. But it's rather pathetic when it's being used to resolve a peacetime territorial claim.

[Buddahaid]

well I don't have a better term for it
But its simply a "boat crash"
the only reason that this case gets so much attention is the location of the incident

if some random guy rammed the US coast guard off California, it wouldn't get nearly as much publicity

The first collision video shows the Chinese boat stopped, and then going to full speed and aim at the Japanese CG vesel. No accident that.

[Jimbuna]

Those poor fishermen were only trying to earn a living :nope:

Unfortunately the skipper on the fishing boat was 'blind' drunk :O:

[Happy Times]

China isnt ready to start this stuff but the PLA generals are feeling cocky, some of the politicians that have sanity are trying to keep them in control.
There are huge internal tensions within China so creating external threats is the oldest solution.
Chinas currency manipulation on the otherhand is more about internal socio economic stability than an economic attack against US and EU.

Obama just toured Asia to strengthen ties with major players.
Seems US is trying to get India, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan and Australia in the same page in containing China if necessary.
Its a mixed congregation but neither of them want China to dominate the region.
Even Russia is awakening to where the real threat lies and started acting with some rationality towards the US, EU and NATO.

[Dowly]

The videos need more machinegun fire. :hmmm:

[Oberon]

China isnt ready to start this stuff but the PLA generals are feeling cocky, some of the politicians that have sanity are trying to keep them in control.
There are huge internal tensions within China so creating external threats is the oldest solution.
Chinas currency manipulation on the otherhand is more about internal socio economic stability than an economic attack against US and EU.

Obama just toured Asia to strengthen ties with major players.
Seems US is trying to get India, Indonesia, South Korea, Japan and Australia in the same page in containing China if necessary.
Its a mixed congregation but neither of them want China to dominate the region.
Even Russia is awakening to where the real threat lies and started acting with some rationality towards the US, EU and NATO.

You are spot on with the external threat deflecting the internal, the Chinese can't act strongly against the US because the US can deep six the Chinese economy more than the Chinese can the US. Japan is an easy target, they can push Japan but Japan can't really push back without the US doing the pushing, not at the moment anyway although there's a strong internal push within Japan to remove the importance on Article Nine and switch from a defensive military to a balanced military, furthermore there's more calls for Japanese involvement in foreign military deployments, but at the same time, still a lot of those who want to keep the JSDF as it is, but the evolution of the JSDF from post-WWII to now shows a gradual return to a normal military power, with the obvious exception of offensive long range weapons such as ballistic missiles, nuclear arms, or proper aircraft carriers.
There's also a long held grudge between China and Japan over World War Two, the rape of Nanking, the altering of Japanese school history books, and the infamous Yasukuni shrine. So, it's a pretty easy thing to exploit and ramp up to a point where it takes peoples minds off housing issues and the growing gap between inside of China and the coasts.
I do worry about the attempts to constrain China, and back it into a corner, wracked with internal difficulties and pushed in on all sides by the US, it might do something stupid. :hmmm: It's either got to adapt or die, I hope that the new President...Xi Jinping, who comes in in 2012-13 will be the reformist that he looks to be, otherwise there will be a long slide into a second revolution and civil war.

[Molon Labe]

I love how Gal says in that article that we're one major incident away from people realizing that collisions at sea are serious (paraphrasing a bit), and then less than 24 hours later an ROKN patrol boat is sunk in a collision with a fishing boat.