Woot! Dead again!

[Akela]

...but I died with a renown of 1720! My highest yet so I'm pretty happy about that.

This time I died while attacking my first convoy. Well, stalking my first convoy anyway, I guess I'd have to have thrown a torpedo or two at them to technically be attacking. But, I did manage to sink one of the two destroyers that was prosecuting me, so take that Winston!

I might have survived this a little longer, but I'm still so new at the game I didn't realize I actually had to click on a damaged compartment to get my damage control crew working on it. By the time I realized my mistake it was too late to save the ship.

So I have two questions that can only be answered by experience I think. I spotted my convoy, at night, in the English Channel about 65 kms S.E. of Portland. It was headed S.W. at 8knts. They were about 8kms away from me and I could see 1 tribal class and 1 war ship named the HMS Rodnov (or something like that). I saw a bunch of little merchants and one large merchant.

So, my first dilema is what do I shoot at first? My instinct was to try and take out the two warships, since I had the element of surprise at the moment. If I could sink them I'd have all night to kill the cargo ships. Plus the big one was worth quite a few tons.

My other option was to line up single torp shots on the four largest merchants and run like hell from the destroyers later.

As it was I decided to "pace" them and close slightly by setting a course and speed that matched theirs, however in order to go 8kts at P-depth I had to crank it up to flank. Needless to say, that was a fatal error and even at 8.5 km the Tribal and a previously unnoticed J&K class heard me and jumped all over me.

Lastly, I suppose I could have just let them all go and try to find them later when they were in deeper water, but that didn't seem like the right choice to me at the time.

What would you have done?

[frau kaleun]

I didn't realize I actually had to click on a damaged compartment to get my damage control crew working on it.

Oy, been there and done that. :damn: :D

Early in the war, at night - depending on how the weather/moon/etc. is affecting visibility - you'd almost certainly be better off getting as close as possible on the surface than going in submerged. They have ASDIC, but they don't have radar yet. When you're on the surface all they can spot you with is their eyes; if you're submerged, and not running silent, they can pick you up on sonar (whether active or passive) at a much greater distance.

That said, I probably wouldn't stalk and attack any warship or escorted convoy in less than 150 km of water given the choice. Too much risk of being detected either before or after the attack and not having enough depth to play with when the payback comes.

Also, while it's always tempting to take out the warships in a lightly guarded (in terms of numbers) convoy and then take your time on the unguarded merchants afterwards, you've got to keep in mind that the closer you are to the coast, the easier it is for reinforcements to get there should someone in the convoy get off a distress signal and alert the authorities to your position. This is particularly true if you are in range of British air cover. The result being, you might well get lucky and take out the warships, but find yourself under attack by whoever responds to the distress call and lose the rest of the convoy in the process of not getting sunk yourself.

the HMS Rodnov (or something like that)

Probably the Rodney. :DL

[Zajc3w]

You shoul let them go.

After several tries(about 15) my conclusions are:
In GWX3 it is impossible to evade more than 1 warship( ASW). When there is only 1, You have at least 150m under keel You maybe evade him. If i see or hear more than 2escorts in convoy i dive deep full stop ad prey that my cook don´t drop anything. Sometimes when I´m at 50m with full stop and silent running engaged DD´s are detecting me somehow from about 4 km.

Otherwise I´m shooting my first torp at nearest DD ant then 1torp for each biggest merchants in convoy, aiming in engine to stop them. After evading escort I´ll come back for them.

In stock sh3 I was able to evade even 3 DD´s... In waters 50 meters deep.

[Gargamel]

If they truly had only 2 escorts, and one was the Rodney, then I think I may have taken out the tribal, allowing me to easily take out the rodney, as it is a worthy prize on it's own, and then get what merchant shipping I could have.

But I really doubt there was only the one DD, They seemed to keep a DD or Frigate at least on each flank of the convoy. offering a ASW screen, while the BB in the middle was used for ASUW mainly.

If your were hell bent on scoring a big kill here and hopefully getting away, I like to drift in slowly (50 rpm), getting up close and personal with the convoy. Then I fire off killing or at least disabling salvo at the primary target in the convoy (in this case the Rodney). I reload and fire off a nice wide spread 4 eel salvo at another high value target when the first eels are close enough to guarantee a hit before the seconds are detected. This will usually stop/kill the primary target, while having a good chance of slowing the second, and picking up a couple tertiary targets too. Then I dive and go really really silent while the convoy runs over me, letting the merchants run interference on the DD's hunting me.

But if you were shallow here, I'd fire off a good salvo at the Rodney and quickly went silent and tried to slip away. Hopefully you'll disable something and be able to pick it up later.

[Capt. Morgan]

...My instinct was to try and take out the two warships, ...I'd have all night to kill the cargo ships.


:oNot in The Chanel you wouldn't! :o



In the open sea that's very a sensible strategy, but in The Chanel it's suicidal.

For starters, once your presence is known, the game will vector all enemy units that are within 30 min. of you to your location - The Chanel is crawling with enemy warships and aircraft.

As mentioned, the water is shallow - It's also confined - so you can't really evade in any direction you want, and what ever direction is available to you may well result in your running into another ASW patrol.

Your approach is fine for open water. If you must use The Chanel during war time, just surviving the voyage is an accomplishment

[ralphnader23]

Sink them ALL! :arrgh!: Be more aggressive!:arrgh!:

[Hinrich Schwab]

Seeing the Tribal Class Destroyer alone would have spooked me away from the entire convoy in the Channel. Assuming your realism settings are taking battery drain, fuel consumption and CO2 into account, pursuing the convoy into the deep would have been more trouble than it would have been worth. had you encountered them in open waters, you could have crept into the middle of the convoy and play peek-a-boo with the destroyers using their own merchantmen as a shield. Engagements in the Channel are extremely risky. The water is too shallow, the seas are normally too rough and aircraft can be too problematic.

Regarding destroyers in general, without countermeasures, you need to dive between 120 and 150 meters to have a good chance of getting under their detection. Even then, you have to go silent, turn on the gramophone and hope they get lazy.

Be conservative when you plan attacks. If you think it may be too risky, it probably is.

[desirableroasted]

Stay out of the Channel, unless ordered there. If you simply must use it, because of low fuel, for example, think of it as dark, thug-filled alley in a strange city and act accordingly. If you just glance at someone wrong in the Channel, you will attract more trouble than you can ever deal with.

Also, the Channel, like all shallow waters, takes away your great advantage as a submarine: the ability to work in 3 dimensions.

That out of the way, let's assume you encounter your convoy in open sea.

1) It sounds like you were behind them at 8km and submerged. You will never run down a convoy submerged from that distance. In open sea, you would surface, go to flank, and create a course that would bring you around to the front of the convoy. That could take hours, but that lets you set up the ambush.

2) Rodney is your main target. At 36K tons, and a battleship, it's a real prize. And, in a convoy, it's not making anything close to its max of 23 knts. Ignore the merchants.

3) Stealth is critical, so ignore the escorts (true on any convoy attack). They will be on you fast enough, anyway; no need to kick the hornet's nest early. If you are ahead of the convoy, drop to 20 meters, go to silent running (RPMs at 70 or so) and let your hydrophones tell you when the lead escort passes. Once you are inside the screen, go to periscope depth and set up your attack. (Though as Frau noted, in really murky weather, you can/should stay on the surface or decks awash, at least in 39-40).

4) In fairly calm seas, 2 magnetics are your best bet; in rough seas, you'd set up an impact approach.

5) Don't be tempted to fire a salvo -- it's lazy and impatient, for one thing, and if you have messed up the solution, you have lost all the torpedoes. Have your torpedoes "set" ahead of time, but take the time to fire each one separately. Try to put one under a gun turret, and the other into the machinery. For a battleship, I might be tempted to fire 3, but rarely. Never, ever empty all of your forward tubes.

6) That's it. You're done. Your torpedoes will hit or they won't. Don't wait around to see the show. Start diving when the last torpedo leaves the tube. Not at flank, but smartly. Go as deep as you can, go to silent (remember the RPMs), serpentine your way out.

By now you have:

Sunk Rodney and escaped: Joy, now give chase and take out the merchants tomorrow night.
Sunk Rodney but are sunk yourself: Valuable experience
Missed Rodney and escaped: Resurface, give chase, try again tomorrow night.
Missed Rodney but are sunk: Bitter, but educational.

So it really can't go wrong.

[desirableroasted]

Then I fire off killing or at least disabling salvo at the primary target in the convoy (in this case the Rodney). I reload and fire off a nice wide spread 4 eel salvo at another high value target when the first eels are close enough to guarantee a hit before the seconds are detected.

Technical question: How do you fire a salvo of four, reload, and fire a second salvo before the first even hits?

Tactical question: Eight torpedoes for two ships? That seems excessive. You don't need the targets to blow up on the spot... you just want to cull them from the convoy. If you slow Rodney to 4 knots with one torpedo, they will leave her.

[Gargamel]

Technical question: How do you fire a salvo of four, reload, and fire a second salvo before the first even hits?

Tactical question: Eight torpedoes for two ships? That seems excessive. You don't need the targets to blow up on the spot... you just want to cull them from the convoy. If you slow Rodney to 4 knots with one torpedo, they will leave her.

Ah, yes, good point. As I'm not using realistic reload times (should switch that :hmmm:), my approach is feasible.

Usually, I'll fire off 2 eletric eels, and reload those tubes with steams. Then I'll have 4 steams ready to shotgun salvo at the convoy. I usually try to keep a (II, I, II, I) setup in my tubes early int eh war, that way i have a good selection of options for most scenarios.

Usually since I'm firing from about 5k out, and I go real slow (50-70rpm), I'll at least get a couple tubes loaded by the time i've drifted into the convoy. I then spend the next five minutes running around the control room as I'm spinning the scope like a madman, firing off stern and bow tubes as I can. I'll then drop deep and slow and see what filters out of the convoy to finish off.

But as above, keeping at least 1 eel in the bow is probably a good idea.

I mainly do this early war with unrealistic reloads.

[Capt. Morgan]

Stay out of the Channel, ... think of it as dark, thug-filled alley in a strange city and act accordingly.

Perfect analogy.:|\\