Thats it... game over

[SteamWake]

Harley-Davidson, the iconic American motorcycle brand with a cult-like following, has announced it has chosen to build its second assembly plant ever outside the United States in India.


http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-04/world/india.bikes_1_india-market-harley-davidsons-haryana?_s=PM:WORLD

[TLAM Strike]

Thats it... game over
Obligatory...
http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/2637/633784372580064945gameo.jpg

[Takeda Shingen]

I don't know, it seems like they just want to try to sell bikes in India, so it makes sense to have a few assembly plants there, especially if the Indian motorcycle market is as big as the article suggests. The parts are still made in the USA, and the article said nothing about closing plants here. Overall, I'd say that an American company building parts over here and then using an Indian facility to assemble the product for sale in the local market is certainly a refreshing change to a Chinese company doing it to us.

[tater]

Exactly, I think it's great.

Japanese and German auto companies have plants here in the US, turnabout is a good thing. Shipping cars or bikes across the ocean is not as cost effective as building them there, particularly if the target country gives you a deal to assemble there.

Makes sense to me.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yeah, let's spread a little Harley loud pipe 1300cc twin and chromed bikes in India. Not only will they handle my IT issues they can enjoy some good old Harley iron on the way to work.

[SteamWake]

It's just that Harley not so long ago were very pround of the fact that they were 'made in america'. One of the last companys to do so.

http://www.amazon.com/Well-Made-America-Lessons-Harley-Davidson/dp/0070518017

How long before these oversea built hogs make it to the streets of USA only to be mocked as 'knock offs'.

[Takeda Shingen]

How long before these oversea built hogs make it to the streets of USA only to be mocked as 'knock offs'.

The article seems to indicate that they are being assembled for sale in India much like, as tater said, Honda and Toyota assemble their cars in North American plants for sale in North America; they don't ship them back to Japan for sale there. It wouldn't make financial sense to make the parts in America, ship them all the way to India for assembly and then ship the bikes all the way back to America for sale. You lose a lot of money that way, as it is cheaper to ship parts than it is to ship bikes. Hence the reason for the Indian plants.

[AVGWarhawk]

In short, Harley is expanding to survive as a company. For Harley, this makes good business sense.

[Wolfehunter]

Amazing... just amazing.. I'm speechless. :nope:

[AVGWarhawk]

Restructuring

Harley has not provided details on the additional job losses, but the restructuring objectives are clear.
The company, for example, is on schedule to close its Capitol Drive plant in Wauwatosa in 2010.
It also is closing its Franklin distribution center this year.
"We need to reduce excess capacity and make the necessary changes that will enable us to be more competitive for the long term," Ziemer said.
Harley-Davidson remains focused on its long-term goals as well as getting through the recession, according to Ziemer, who recently announced his retirement effective May 1.
He has been replaced by Keith Wandell, president and chief operating officer at Johnson Controls Inc., an automotive parts supplier.
No company would like having its U.S. sales down nearly 10%, Ziemer said, but Harley is doing "amazingly well" compared with automakers and manufacturers of other big-ticket products.
Harley's overall results were better than expected, according to analysts.
The company did much better than its foreign competitors, including Honda Motor Co., and captured market share, said Robin Diedrich, senior consumer analyst at Edward Jones.
There also were encouraging signs at Harley-Davidson Financial Services, the company's consumer lending arm.
Tom Bergmann, Harley's chief financial officer, said during a conference call that he believes HDFS would be able to meet its funding needs for the year - something that had been questionable.
The company's decision in February to cut its dividend, coupled with a $600 million debt offering and other efforts, should cover the division's need for $1 billion in funding, Bergmann said.
Harley-Davidson Financial Services has toughened its loan-writing standards and collection efforts. Still, its credit losses on retail motorcycle loans widened from a year earlier.
"I expect credit losses to go up throughout 2009 as we look at rising unemployment and falling consumer confidence," Bergmann said.


Harley has laid off quite a few over the past two years. This is a move to survive as a company.

[Tribesman]

So they are taking steps to be competitive in an expanding market.
Yeah game over:doh:

[SteamWake]

So they are taking steps to be competitive in an expanding market.
Yeah game over:doh:

Game over for the 'made in america' mindset.

We just cant manufacture here and be competitive.

That simple sentance says alot.

[Sailor Steve]

It's just that Harley not so long ago were very pround of the fact that they were 'made in america'. One of the last companys to do so.

Harley caught a lot of flack thirty years ago for using Japanese carburetors. A quick search brought me this:
Hmm.. my 85 FXRS had

Japanese Keihin Carb
Japanese front forks
Japanese Speedo
Japanese Tach
Japanese Starter
OEM mag wheels.. Japanese


Now brace yourself...

The Clutch... England.http://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/src:www.hdforums.com/get/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif


and they were all made to "Harley Specifications".
http://www.hdforums.com/forum/general-harley-davidson-chat/90905-is-it-true-that-harleys-have-japanese-carburetors-2.html

Elsewhere on that forum it is also indicated that they are still using front forks made by Showa.

[Tribesman]

We just cant manufacture here and be competitive.

That simple sentance says alot.
Yes it does, it says a lot about other countries import taxes when you want to export to them.

[Jimbuna]

If it makes economic sense and allows the company to maintain its parent operation in the USA so be it.

I wish us Brits had the same foresight with what was once a buoyant car and motorbike industry.

[AVGWarhawk]

Yes it does, it says a lot about other countries import taxes when you want to export to them.

It works both ways Tribesman. VW is making a new plant in the US because VW can not compete with Toyota and Honda here in the US. Why, Toyota and Honda build the cars here in the US. It is the same deal for Harley. How can Harley compete with Honda or Yamaha in India? How can Harley expand their company and stay competative? Manufacture the bikes in India.

[Ducimus]

Oh gee, more industry going overseas? I'll try and not act surprise since anything that says, "Made in USA" is a quaint idea that doesn't exist anymore. Harley davidsion offshoring to india? Just another nail in our national coffin. *shrug*

On another note, I guess we can cross harley davidson off as a national Icon now.

[Buddahaid]

It makes me Sikh! :D

[AVGWarhawk]

Oh gee, more industry going overseas? I'll try and not act surprise since anything that says, "Made in USA" is a quaint idea that doesn't exist anymore. Harley davidsion offshoring to india ,Just another nail in our national coffin.

On another note, I guess we can cross harley davidson off as a national Icon now.

The company is making motorcycles in India to sell to the market in India. I do not believe the motorcycles are being manufactured then put in a container to the US for sale. VW as an example builds in Mexico and Germany. These two places sell cars to the US market. However, making the cars in these two countries proves to be very expensive because of import tax, etc. This issue makes Toyota and Honda very price competative in the US. VW only answer to this problem was to build a manufacturing plant in the US. Doing this reduces the over all cost per unit thus making them price competative with Toyota and Honda. Will some cars manufactured in the US be shipped to other parts of the world? Probably not. VW has multiple plants around the globe. Harley will have a plant in India serving that market.

[Tribesman]

It works both ways Tribesman. VW is making a new plant in the US because VW can not compete with Toyota and Honda here in the US. Why, Toyota and Honda build the cars here in the US.
Indeed, so why is Steam all up with the "game over" line?

It is the same deal for Harley.
Its just business, normal everyday business and it cuts both ways.
After all the Japanese bike manufacturers also have worldwide manufacturing programs for worldwide markets. So whats the big deal about Harley doing the same?
It really seems like a story of nothing doesn't it.

I'll try and not act surprise since anything that says, "Made in USA" is a quaint idea that doesn't exist anymore.
Buy yourself a nice Star bike, "made in the good ol USA" don't worry if people say its really an American Yamaha.

[AVGWarhawk]

It really seems like a story of nothing doesn't it.



Not really. Harley as a company was on it's way out. Many removed from their jobs. Plants looking to close. Harley looks to have possibly revived itself all be it in another market on the other side of the globe. To many hardcore Harley motorheads this should be good news. After all, they can still buy a 'hog' that has "Made in the USA." To some that does not mean a hill of beans but to others it means a lot.

"
What is stranger yet is Toyota, Honda and VW(soon) will have Assembled in the USA" stamped on them. What is even stranger is folks still view the car as Japanese or German. Perhaps by design but the cars are but the cars are "Made in America" after all.

[Ducimus]

What is stranger yet is Toyota, Honda and VW(soon) will have Assembled in the USA"


Assembled is not the same as made. Those cars are still MADE in Japan, or Germany. IMO, It's not an American product if its not made AND assembled HERE.

[AVGWarhawk]

Assembled is not the same as made. Those cars are still MADE in Japan, or Germany. IMO, It's not an American product if its not made AND assembled HERE.


Is the VW Passat really built and manufactured in Germany? Well, yes and no. Most of the parts come from China. The transmission is a Japanese design. You will find this type of manufacturing across the board. I will say this Duci, I would not buy a Jetta assemblied in Mexico. No way. No how. Some of the poorest assembly quality seen just about anywhere. Would I buy a Toyota built in the USA and expect high quality craftsmanship? Certainly and for the most part the American working in these US factories deliver.

I do understand your point about being 100% American designed and made in the good ole USA!

[tater]

Game over for the 'made in america' mindset.

We just cant manufacture here and be competitive.

That simple sentance says alot.

For sale on the other side of the world. Its a good choice. Do you consider a Mercedes gl450 an American car? It's made here. If that Benz is German, then the Harley is American even made in India

[Jimbuna]

It makes me Sikh! :D

LOL :DL

[gimpy117]

hey, your bottom line is WAAAAAY more important than American Pride

[Castout]

The sound of Indian Harley Davidson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F29tuwqR7s

[Sailor Steve]

I have to agree with the guys who separate "assembled" from "made". Kawasaki has been assembling bikes in Lincoln, Nebraska, since 1974. Honda has been building cars in Marysville, Ohio since 1985. Are those vehicles "Made in America"? Harley afficianados would say no. Kawasaki and Honda fans say yes. Are they? Well, they do give jobs to Americans and save money doing it that way.

I'm no Harley fan, but if the bikes are being built in India to be sold in India, then it's the best, and smartest, way to do it.

It makes me Sikh! :D
:rotfl2: :rock:

[Ducimus]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jyle2CuDgIo

[Sailor Steve]

Oh, golly-gosh! I am thinking that was a most funny video! You are to be thanked for providing that humor for us.

[nikimcbee]

I thought they were relocating their Milwaukee manufacturing to a less expensive state in the US?

Did HD ever resolve their quality issues? I've only heard joke about how poorly they run.:06: (from honda and suzuki owners:D)

[Sailor Steve]

Did HD ever resolve their quality issues? I've only heard joke about how poorly they run.:06: (from honda and suzuki owners:D)
Yes and no.

The jokes:

How to get a free Harley - follow one down the road and pick up the pieces that fall off.

Where do you find Harley owners most days? In their living rooms making repairs.

The reality: Big V-twins vibrate a lot. In the old days that meant that you did have problems with parts coming loose. Today quality-control is a lot better, in part because H-D had to keep up with other manufacturers making V-twins that were more reliable.

I have only two real complaints about Harley-Davidson. One is that I don't like V-twins in general, so that's not really so much a complaint as an "eye-of-the-beholder" (or rider) thing. The other is the price tag. I don't see the need for a big, heavy bike that literally kicks my butt on any long ride when I can have a machine that's faster, smoother, lighter and overall more fun for one-quarter the cost.

[AVGWarhawk]

There is one very huge gripe I have with Harley. It is the open pipes off the big V-twin. The damn things are way to loud and do disturb the peace. The bikes should require mufflers by law. Damn, ever get around 6-7 of these bikes and the owners juicing the throttle? :doh:

[kiwi_2005]

India = cheap labor

Speaking of cheap labor im off to work :)

:damn:

[Buddahaid]

There is one very huge gripe I have with Harley. It is the open pipes off the big V-twin. The damn things are way to loud and do disturb the peace. The bikes should require mufflers by law. Damn, ever get around 6-7 of these bikes and the owners juicing the throttle? :doh:

Every Sunday a flock, herd, pride, whatever, goes past the house down the highway. Takes about two full minutes to pass.

[Buddahaid]

New use for the V-twin.

http://www.insideline.com/morgan/2011-morgan-threewheeler.html

:salute:

[yubba]

Yes it is a sad day for motorcycle folk, Harley bein built in India I guess we'll have too call it a cury burner. Maybe it will turn out to be a better bike won't that be a kick in the pants. Loud pipes save lives, if you don't like the noise move next to the airport.:woot:What's the difference between a Harley and a Hoover ? gab trid fo tnemecalp