Will it sink? And can I finish it with flak?

[desirableroasted]

Status: 1 very wounded large merchant. Two torpedo (impacts) holes below the water line port amidships, and 3 or 4 deck gun hits below the water line starboard, slightly forward.

She quickly went from 7knts to 0 (though she's actually still moving in zig zag at about 0.1 knts, with slow prop turns). Low in the water, but not shipping water and not listing.

And that's the status the past 16 game hours.

If she is still underway, even at 0.1 knts, and not sinking, will she ever sink? I suspects my hits were not far enough apart to flood enough compartments.

And is there any way to sink her with the flak gun? Will the AP bullets actually do any good at the waterline? (Obviously, I am out of torps and deck gun ammo).

I have weeks of fuel remaining and am well outside of air cover (Feb 1940), so I have all the time in the world. But I don't want to waste it if this is a lost cause.

Oh, and I play GWX 3.0

[Pisces]

How deep is it? Is it actually capable of sinking completely. Maybe it is resting on the bottom.

I remember someone of the GWX crew writing that you need to fire weapons with a certain amount of damagepoints before compartments can actually be pierced to start flooding. But that was in relation to torpedo hits. My guess is machinegun rounds are not strong enough. But you could try to fire at any structure above surface until it is destroyed. That also helps add up to the total damage. Not a guarantee though if it enough.

[Hans Uberman]

On very rare occasion, I have sunk large vessels with AA guns by causing some of the items on their deck to explode, but they were already very damaged. Typically, I find that only small vessels such as tugboats, sailboats, and coal tenders are absolutely certain to go down with AA fire, but it's not entirely impossible on slightly larger prey. So like pisces says, attack the top structure. (Towers, barrels, crates, deck/AA guns, etc...) On a large vessel, it's not all that likely to work though.

[Akela]

Ram it?

[desirableroasted]

Thank you for the advice.

I had to put the game on hold for now, but we are 21 game hours and no change.

@Pisces: She is moving under her own power, albeit slowly (1km/hour or so), so she hasn't stopped in the water. I have never seen one stop dead in the water and not sink, but this one still has propulsion.

@Pisces & Hans: I know small stuff can be sunk with the flak gun, so theoretically a heavily-damaged large ship might could be, too (given unlimited bullets). My problem is that I am in 6 knot seas, so I cannot hit one spot consistently, even at 100 meters (and even if I knew where to aim, other than the waterline). Everything is blown off topside, though most of that was by my deck-gun crew (aiming at waterline but, again, rolling seas).

@Akela: I don't want her that badly. We have over 110K on this patrol already, so I am perfectly happy to go back to the barn without her on the ledger.

If the seas calm down, I will use the rest of my 400 or so AA bullets; otherwise, I am calling it quits at 36 hours if there is no change.

[krashkart]

If it doesn't sink in the next 36 hours I'd have to say there's some very lucky sailors aboard. :DL

[VONHARRIS]

If I were you I would continue firing the deck gun until she went down.
I don't think it is a waste of ammo especially for a ship displacing over 10,000 grt.

[Hans Uberman]

This is where a board ship function would be useful. Break out the MP40s boys, we're going out for dinner!
*plants charges and returns to u-boat*

[CherryHarbey]

I would certainly give the flak gun a try.
On my last patrol in the Black Sea (type II, so no deck gun) I encountered a small convoy with just one escort, sank the escort and a couple of merchants before running out of torpedoes.
After a good look at the remaining merchants, I was pleased to discover these naive Russians didn't have a gun crew between them.
I started on a Coastal Tanker (around 1800 GRT) and sank that, then sank a Small Freighter, (around 2100 GRT), ran out of ammo on a Passenger/Cargo.
Those that did sink took around 800 rounds each but were completely undamaged prior to that.

Also GWX3.0

[Gerald]

I think it can be difficult, two eels usually enough but if you want to try to waste ammo so...

[Jimbuna]

Do you actually have AP ammo?

You could attempt destroying the deck cargo and hope it tilts the balance regarding damage points in your favour.

[Gargamel]

I know i have sunk an ore carrier in this same exact scenario with just the flak gun. Just get close and open up. The flank speed to gtfo when she starts to go.

[desirableroasted]

Thanks again for the advice.

You all are at least confirming that my thinking was in the right place. 1) blow the cargo up, 2) trail her, 3) try to bring her down even if it does mean firing a flak gun a 10K tonner.

In the end, I broke off. Went 40 game hours, and she wasn't sinking or slowing. And the weather was growing worse and 400 flak pellets made no difference as far as I could see (even at 100 meters).

My excuse is that I hit her in a convoy at nightfall, but never saw the shot hit. Moved on to other things (this was a huge, fat convoy whose only escort was a Revenge in the middle), then attacked her again, thinking it was a new large merchant. Later inspection showed the second torpedo went in just feet from from the first one. So that was a wasted torpedo. I had about 10 deck gun shots left, of which the crew put 3 under the waterline, but all forward and bunched.

So... chalk that one up to "almost, and not for lack of trying."

Memo to Günther: SH3 Commander tells me the Revenge I sank turned out to be HMS Royal Oak. In February 1940. Just sayin'....

[Gargamel]

Memo to Günther: SH3 Commander tells me the Revenge I sank turned out to be HMS Royal Oak. In February 1940. Just sayin'....

Ok ok..... so I'm going to try to use everything I've learned since I started playing SH3...

Isn't that the one Prien (sp?) sunk in U47 when he made a daring port infiltration of Scapa Flow in october '39?

Hows that for a noob off the top of the head?

[Deep-Six]

I am the local expert on raiding harbors. Although, this was some two to three years ago when I last played SH3. Scapo Flow is a pain to get into, but well worth the reward. New York is also worth it. For New York you do need an IXB and later, as there is alot of tonnage in the harbor.

The real nut would be Norfolk. But who would risk it.

[Tessa]

I am the local expert on raiding harbors. Although, this was some two to three years ago when I last played SH3. Scapo Flow is a pain to get into, but well worth the reward. New York is also worth it. For New York you do need an IXB and later, as there is alot of tonnage in the harbor.

The real nut would be Norfolk. But who would risk it.

Quite the boast there.

Unless you take Prien's exact route Scapa is the easiest port with warships to get into. Take the southern side of the Western chanel and you're safely inside. Best to go in at night on the surface until you at least get close to the island to avoid the majority of the minefield. One inside go behind the ships in order to avoid the subnets that get put up to protect them. If the weather is loisy its hard to find targets, though once so you can fire on them at the surface (have sunk the Hood on the surface once during a very heavy rainstorm, then later exited via the south side on the surface undetected) to save O2.

Gibraltor is tougher as the area you can slip through the subnet is smaller and there's a wide area between the two main target areas. Assuming you sink the warship(s) first then head to the harbor to sink the cruisers you can hide behind the subnets there. Once you've sunk the cruisers slip through the opening right next to the end of the pier and you'll leave all the escort behind you; though usually have some waiting in the middle of the port for you. Long as you can make it out to sea you've got a chance when you have room to maneuver (and hopefully a couple eels in the aft left to take out careless escorts).

Long as the Belchen boat is still around the US/Canada is easily reached in a type VII, just use it as the halfway point for refuelling. Can still make the trip but have to cruise at 8 knots in order to have the fuel, doable but takes a long time to get there. And you usually run into several convoys on the way there so by the time you get to US waters you're run on torpedoes.

New York later has an annoying subnet though is far enough south that once all traffic passes you can surface to go over it into the harbor. Halifax is the real goldmine with the merchant fleet that is assembled in the lake northwest of the harbor itself. You go up this tiny shallow river to get there but then have the pick of 20+ merchants/tankers that are all in anchor with no escorts buzzing around (be warned even in a type VII maneuvering to get into this inlet is tough and you can easily beach yourself or hit sandbars in the process).

For those that want to tempt shallow water combar best places generally are:

Gibraltor (1BB, 1-2 Heavy Cruisers and later a flat top reguarly there)

Scapa (1-2 BB all depends on timing, can be no warships that park there for a whole month; 1-2 Aux Cruisers, occasional flat top and of course the hood)

Liverpool (Hood can be there for months at a time, occasioanlly 2 Hood's will be there simultaneously + fair amount of merchant shipping)

Southend (2 of the Massive Troop Liners, Large Merchant and Modern Tanker; `150,000 tons if you sink everything in the harbor)

New York (Sometimes lucky and a Cunard ship will be leaving or parked, several premium merchant targets, 1 heavy cruiser, 1 or 2 (old) large passenger transports (converted to troop transports, high value targets - don't get negative renown like you do for sinking a passenger only ship)

Norfolk (sometimes nothing but DD's, othertimes is usually an Iowa Class BB and if lucky a flat top there too)

Crucao (Large tanker heaven)

Loch Ewe (major challenge, requires patience and timing in order to get past the subnet(s) depding on the route you choose. Going straight to the port is fine in really bad weather where you can run on the surface over the minefield in the middle and over the subnet without allerting the two gun emplacement on your flanks. Going over the 2 subnets on your east is safer, though heavily patrolled by trawlers which are shallow enough to easily go over the subnets to chase after you if they see you. Can be a large range of targets there, is always good merchants there, sometimes Hood or other BB's will be there, heavy cruisers will usually be there permanently later in the war and flat top will be frequently found there. Avoid the temptation to sink the floating docks, despite their massive tonnage their value would only be worthwhile if you could use your deckgun. Unique spot in Loch Ewe is a complete blind spot you can manuever into a surface to transfer torpedoes and get fresh air. Enemy will still shell you the whole time but the (natural) trench you're in only 1 in 100 or so shells will come close or even hit if you stay close to the edge.

Imo the hardest harbor to get in and out (Loch Ewe) of regardless of weather with having to deal with so many subnets and escorts readily waiting around them.)

[frau kaleun]

Ok ok..... so I'm going to try to use everything I've learned since I started playing SH3...

Isn't that the one Prien (sp?) sunk in U47 when he made a daring port infiltration of Scapa Flow in october '39?



Apparently not in desirableroasted's SH3 universe. :O:

But in the real world, the answer would be yes, altho uboat.net lists her as a Royal Sovereign class BB and not Revenge class. Not sure what's up with that, maybe the former class is not represented in the game so she got tossed in with the latter class somehow.

[Jimbuna]

HMS Royal Oak - Royal Sovereign Class

http://www.naval-history.net/WW2aBritishLosses01BB2.htm

Not helped by Wikipedia which catagorises it as being a Revenge Class Battleship

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Royal_Oak_(08)

The former is correct of course.

In GWX she appears in the Revenge Class section of the ship names CFG in SH3 Commander because there is no Royal Sovereign Class section.


[BBRevenge]
0001=HMS Revenge
0002=HMS Royal Oak
0003=HMS Royal Sovereign
0004=HMS Resolution
0005=HMS Ramillies

[Herr-Berbunch]

Post removed as I'm talking crap!

[Jimbuna]

Post removed as I'm talking crap!

That's not like you http://img395.imageshack.us/img395/9501/liarrv1ed9.gif






:DL

[j_evans]

Jane's uses the Royal Sovereign class name but I believe that the RN referred to them as the Revenge class possibly due to the previous Royal Sovereign class of pre dreadnoughts, designed by sir William White, some of which were just being retired when the new R class where laid down.

[Sailor Steve]

WELCOME ABOARD! :sunny:

Conway's uses Revenge. I consider them to be the most reliable source, given the names involved in their research.