View Full Version : The politics thread
Lord_magerius
11-01-10, 09:41 PM
The thread for any form of politics. I don't know about anybody else but I'm sick of seeing "OMFG OBAMA IS BLACK AND WANTS TO KILL US ALL" and "Ooh muslims theres a simple subject" threads whenever I log in to subsim. Yes I know that certain things deserve their own thread but opening this one would open up the floor for minor political discussions and at least tidy up the Off Topic section.
gimpy117
11-01-10, 09:43 PM
on the subject of the obama thing:
yes, this is a VERY right leaning board. it's par for the course here. Im used to Steamwake, armalike, tater and company ganging up on me.
http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/distressedamerican/images/graphics/Republicans-In-Congress-Small.jpg
and a pic to start it off
nikimcbee
11-01-10, 09:46 PM
Sweet, a political thread:
a political topic near to Jim's heart!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8BBob7o6a4
The Third Man
11-01-10, 09:50 PM
Silly, silly. It has nothing to do with the color of ones skin as much as our president is want to make it so. It is about his policies. To make us like Europe. Which is why we all left to begin with.
The thread for any form of politics. I don't know about anybody else but I'm sick of seeing "OMFG OBAMA IS BLACK AND WANTS TO KILL US ALL" and "Ooh muslims theres a simple subject" threads whenever I log in to subsim. Yes I know that certain things deserve their own thread but opening this one would open up the floor for minor political discussions and at least tidy up the Off Topic section.
Well, I don't think a thread will save it. Hell, even if we opened a whole forum for it, I don't think you'd avoid these threads in here. :nope:
What you should really do if you want to help is start more interesting threads NOT about politics. Just flood it out with merrier things!
nikimcbee
11-01-10, 09:53 PM
Well, I don't think a thread will save it. Hell, even if we opened a whole forum for it, I don't think you'd avoid these threads in here. :nope:
I think you should start a Canadian political thread, now that would be different.:hmmm:
Takeda Shingen
11-01-10, 09:54 PM
I think you should start a Canadian political thread, now that would be different.:hmmm:
That would be a lot of talk about maple syrup brands.
Just kidding; don't hurt me.
I think you should start a Canadian political thread, now that would be different.:hmmm:
And by different you mean boring :D
Really, Canadian politics are a dysfunctional, passion-less, stalemate-on-hold right now. But to be honest, I prefer that to US politics :O:
Ducimus
11-01-10, 09:59 PM
A politics thread won't work because it doesn't suit the ego's involved. The usual suspects feel their opinion every issue is the right opinion, the issue itself is so important it deserves its own thread, and most importantly, they demand to be heard. That is the thing really, they want to be heard. If the post will get buried, they won't be heard, therego, they won't abide by a designated place to vent their anger.
nikimcbee
11-01-10, 09:59 PM
That would be a lot of talk about maple syrup brands.
Just kidding; don't hurt me.
I knew I could find a real Canadian political discussion, not releated to maple syrup!:hmmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3DYbE44OIE
I'll just throw this in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_TfBbR6L0M&feature=related
Aramike
11-02-10, 12:18 AM
on the subject of the obama thing:
yes, this is a VERY right leaning board. it's par for the course here. Im used to Steamwake, armalike, tater and company ganging up on me.
http://www.seedsofdoubt.com/distressedamerican/images/graphics/Republicans-In-Congress-Small.jpg
FUnny
and a pic to start it offFunny, albeit completely and grossly inaccurate.
Besides, what's most entertaining is how clearly this graphic illustrates the odd Democrat belief that ANY debt spending would "save" the economy. It would be far more poignant to suggest, "1 trillion in spending cuts to save it." Instead this graphic suggests that, in one year, Obama spends 20% of what Bush did in *EIGHT* and that somehow is better.
Great point, if your audience is comprised of morons that haven't bothered with an attempt at understanding economics.
By the way, true story - Obama's committed us to far more spending than this graphic represents. His spending hasn't "Saved" a freakin' thing - government spending never does.
And finally, despite your claims, this board is quite down the middle as far as politcal leanings go. Just because you're faced with stiff arguments by certain individuals the board doesn't "lean" that way. I can think of as many liberals I respect as conservatives you don't. Mookie, antikristuseke, Stealth Hunter, I could go on. There are also plenty of centrists, such as Sailor Steve, Skybird, Takeda, etc. Finally, there are plenty of conservatives I disagree with, but the philosophy of "if you can't say something nice..." prevents me from naming names.
Back on topic, that pic makes the best case for fiscally conservative Republicans I've ever seen - fine, under Bush we spent a ton. What on Earth makes anyone think that means that Democrats, who are CONSTANTLY spending, would be more conservative? All that graphic does is illustrate the mindset of "well, they did it, why can't we?".
But here's the problem - if the Dems are opposed to spending, then they would be conservatives and this would be no issues. Instead, they are FOR spending and are pandering to the newly fiscally conservative nation that further spending is okay because Republicans did it, but that spending under Republicans was wrong because Republicans did it.
As such, they are going to be destroyed in the elections tomorrow because most people know frauds when they see them. Frankly I think Dems would have done far better if they ran on being spend-happy Dems. While in reality, the average Dem is attempting to stand for the principles of your average Rep, and the public is siding with the right because the left is going up against their own votes.
Aramike
11-02-10, 12:31 AM
The thread for any form of politics. I don't know about anybody else but I'm sick of seeing "OMFG OBAMA IS BLACK AND WANTS TO KILL US ALL" and "Ooh muslims theres a simple subject" threads whenever I log in to subsim. Yes I know that certain things deserve their own thread but opening this one would open up the floor for minor political discussions and at least tidy up the Off Topic section.Then why don't you start a topic on its own merits and avoid the generalizing of the other side? Or why don't you simply not read political topics? Or, in the case that you accidentally stumble upon one, why not just hit the "Back" button and remove yourself from the situation?
Or is the problem that you have an opinion that differs from the one you're usually reading and you cannot tolerate that? If so, what makes you think that you're opinion that any other opinion shouldn't be discussed? Or better, why should said other opinion be more valid than the prevailing opinion merely because it hasn't be represented as much? Is it that you believe you're opinion of things is so superior to others that it shouldn't be faced with the test of standing upon its own without regard to the other side, as evidenced by the original post reference to the concept that alternative ideas to your own are prevailent?
I am suggesting that you would have done far better to just present your opinion and leave it at that, rather than suggesting that alternatives to your opinion are intellectual justifications in and of themselves. In the end, that only makes you seem more incapable of defending your position and begs the question as to whether or not you have any defensible argument as to why you hold said position.
...or you just think that anyone who disagrees with you isn't making sense without any analysis in support of that.
Either way, despite what topics you tire of, you're only lending credibility to their nature by way of disimissing them without justification.
Buddahaid
11-02-10, 01:15 AM
Zombie Politics!
I think they've got it figured out that by the time election day rolls around, you'll vote for anything to MAKE IT STOP! :damn:
And by different you mean boring :D
Really, Canadian politics are a dysfunctional, passion-less, stalemate-on-hold right now. But to be honest, I prefer that to US politics :O:
:yep:
Swiss politics is worse, though they had some excitment with the minaret vote last year, Khaddafi and his shenanigans and a current proposal to expel foreigners convicted of crimes.
I knew I could find a real Canadian political discussion, not releated to maple syrup!:hmmm:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3DYbE44OIE
I'll just throw this in:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_TfBbR6L0M&feature=related
Ah good old Bob and Doug, as for the second clip:
This video contains content from Sony Music Entertainment, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds.
:down:
I tried this Magerius...it didn't work :wah:
Hope you have more success though :yeah:
Betonov
11-02-10, 05:56 AM
We'll there's still slovenian politics. a ongoing battle beetwen the red and white guard, a subject most smart slovenians are sick of it but both sides still have enough sheep to keep it going. I don tknow about republicans vs democrats, but here its like:
coalition: lets have an idiotic plan of saving the economy which in long run will ruin it
oposition: NO, we have a better plan and will deny you ever implementing your plan, since your plan is not our plan and our plan will tank the economy faster
C: lets reward a company that survived the crisis and is making massive profit
O: NO, lets sell the company to foreigners
C: lets save that boy that is drowing in the lake
O: NO, we will not save the boy because you are left/right and we are not and we will prevent you from saving the boy
ITs not politics, it's a tragic circus filled with drunken incompetent clowns abusing that little slovenian tradition of ''distrust thy neghbour'' by creating a de facto state of civil war during every election, wasting everybody's time and having nothing done. Sometimes the oposition actually supports an idiotic plan or law, because they know it will be so stupid that the coalition might actually loose the election because of it, regardless what the consicuencess will be. Sometimes an actuall civil war would be better, people would have something to do and we could hang every SoB without the law being brought down on us
the_tyrant
11-02-10, 06:09 AM
You know, after all this time here, I have never seen a Muslim member of subsim
You know, after all this time here, I have never seen a Muslim member of subsim
Maybe when someone does a Kaiten sim we'll get a huge influx.
Maybe when someone does a Kaiten sim we'll get a huge influx.
We used to have several Muslim members but they were basically driven away.
Ducimus
11-02-10, 01:18 PM
I tried this Magerius...it didn't work :wah:
Hope you have more success though :yeah:
Get used to it. I'm guessing most of the folks talking politics here wont stop for at least another week. As i understand the usual cycle is to work up into a rabid state. Start watching any indicator that their favorite team is wining, and after the election they'll do one of two things. Whine, or brag for about a week. After that, most will probably, finally, STFU. A couple never will.
Frankly, i never like to discuss politics at all. Only reason i did in any capacity, is because that's all their is around here now. One politico thread after another. I'm tired of it. Apparently, im one of the few people who grew up with some sage advice.....
Never talk about politics or religion. (least of all with friends IMO) My father told me that at an early age. I didn't quite understand it until i got older. Politics and religion are things that make up the core of a person. Discussing that stuff, is prodding the very thing that makes a person tick, and its easy to get sucked into a vicious "discussion". The end result is, they'll either love you, or hate you with a fervant passion.. It's best to just respect a persons beliefs, and leave it be. Unfortuantley, not everyone is capable of doing that.
VipertheSniper
11-02-10, 01:35 PM
It is about his policies. To make us like Europe. Which is why we all left to begin with.
Skipped history classes much? I tend to think the largest immigration waves to the US were well before European countries turned into "socialist nanny states" as you would most probably call it.
Skipped history classes much? I tend to think the largest immigration waves to the US were well before European countries turned into "socialist nanny states" as you would most probably call it.
Go read a history book yourself. People have been leaving Europe because they wanted to be shed of old world restrictions long before socialism ever reared it's ugly head.
Frankly, i never like to discuss politics at all. Only reason i did in any capacity, is because that's all their is around here now. One politico thread after another. I'm tired of it. Apparently, im one of the few people who grew up with some sage advice.....
Never talk about politics or religion. (least of all with friends IMO) My father told me that at an early age. I didn't quite understand it until i got older. Politics and religion are things that make up the core of a person. Discussing that stuff, is prodding the very thing that makes a person tick, and its easy to get sucked into a vicious "discussion". The end result is, they'll either love you, or hate you with a fervant passion.. It's best to just respect a persons beliefs, and leave it be. Unfortuantley, not everyone is capable of doing that.
I do this in personal relationships pretty much 100%. Try as hard as possible to avoid the subject, if unavoidable, try hard to not get nailed down.
Forums... totally different, least to me. Both politics and religion are really interesting topics to debate, but as you said, you cannot really engage in debate in person if you follow that sage advice. So a forum is one of the few places you CAN get into those arguments.
If that makes any sense.
FWIW, I think even the most strident posters on opposite sides here would probably be fast friends over a few beers.
FWIW, I think even the most strident posters on opposite sides here would probably be fast friends over a few beers.
Some could but others are way too touchy to ever let anyone get to that point.
Ducimus
11-02-10, 03:29 PM
I do this in personal relationships pretty much 100%. Try as hard as possible to avoid the subject, if unavoidable, try hard to not get nailed down.
It's a tap dance. Espeically around my Fiancee's father. He's a kindly old man of 82, and a devote Mormon. You go to his house, its ALL he talks about. I just nod my head, give generalized non answers, mixed with a little circle talk. I'm very careful to never reveal any personal beliefs. That opens the door to a religous prodding, which i've done well to avoid thus far.
Forums... totally different, least to me.
Yeah, I find it more vicious then in real life.
Both politics and religion are really interesting topics to debate,
I'd say they are angry topics because they are core beleifs. People seem to have a need to evangalize their beleifs, and attack those who do not share theirs. It, IMO, boils down to ramrodding crap down anothers throat. A pet peeve of mine.
but as you said, you cannot really engage in debate in person if you follow that sage advice.
Political rally's? My mom's an avid tea partier, and much to my surprise, attends community rallies. I can't say i share her political devtoion, but she's doing a helluva lot more then spouting her opinion on a message board.
So a forum is one of the few places you CAN get into those arguments.
Which, really, at the end of the day, accomplishes nothing, does it? If your THAT fired, go to a rally. That accomplish's far more IMO.
FWIW, I think even the most strident posters on opposite sides here would probably be fast friends over a few beers.
After the crap ive seen or engaged in over the years......I doubt that. Some people here can hold a grudge for a very long time, which includes me.
the_tyrant
11-02-10, 03:33 PM
It's a tap dance. Espeically around my Fiancee's father. He's a kindly old man of 82, and a devote Mormon. You go to his house, its ALL he talks about. I just nod my head, give generalized non answers, mixed with a little circle talk. I'm very careful to never reveal any personal beliefs. That opens the door to a religous prodding, which i've done well to avoid thus far.
Yeah, I find it more vicious then in real life.
I'd say they are angry topics because they are core beleifs. People seem to have a need to evangalize their beleifs, and attack those who do not share theirs. It, IMO, boils down to ramrodding crap down anothers throat. A pet peeve of mine.
.
Political rally's? My mom's an avid tea partier, and much to my surprise, attends community rallies. I can't say i share her political devtoion, but she's doing a helluva lot more then spouting her opinion on a message board.
Which, really, at the end of the day, accomplishes nothing, does it? If your THAT fired, go to a rally. That accomplish's far more IMO.
After the crap ive seen or engaged in over the years......I doubt that. Some people here can hold a grudge for a very long time, which includes me.
Forums are great because you don't get punched in the face or teargassed or get run over by a tank:arrgh!:
Penguin
11-02-10, 04:06 PM
Skipped history classes much? I tend to think the largest immigration waves to the US were well before European countries turned into "socialist nanny states" as you would most probably call it.
Go read a history book yourself. People have been leaving Europe because they wanted to be shed of old world restrictions long before socialism ever reared it's ugly head.
I cannot see how these 2 statements contradict. The biggest immigration from the Old to the New World was in the late 19th/early 20th century. The rise of the welfare state started after WW1 - just the time the first "socialistic" country was founded.
antikristuseke
11-02-10, 04:22 PM
Forums are great because you don't get punched in the face or teargassed or get run over by a tank:arrgh!:
I can attest that being punched in the face and getting pepper sprayed sucks. Haven't been run over by a tank so far though.
DarkFish
11-02-10, 04:35 PM
Skipped history classes much? I tend to think the largest immigration waves to the US were well before European countries turned into "socialist nanny states" as you would most probably call it.Go read a history book yourself. People have been leaving Europe because they wanted to be shed of old world restrictions long before socialism ever reared it's ugly head.Ehm, as far as I can tell you're telling the exact same thing:doh:
Anyway, if you look at the facts:
http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/images/im2.2.gif
you can clearly see there's a massive drop in immigration rates at about the same time Socialism got a foothold in Europe. (same goes for total number of immigrants, see http://www.cato.org/pubs/policy_report/pr-imquant.html)
So clearly the current European political climate is not as TTM states "why you all left to begin with".
frau kaleun
11-02-10, 04:42 PM
I can attest that being punched in the face and getting pepper sprayed sucks. Haven't been run over by a tank so far though.
You just haven't met the right girl yet. :O:
Penguin
11-02-10, 04:49 PM
are you talking about this lovely lady?:
http://drawingcowboys.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/tank_girl.jpg
loved the movie - never saw it sober though :DL
Betonov
11-02-10, 04:50 PM
You just haven't met the right girl yet. :O:
If he wont have her, I will
the_tyrant
11-02-10, 04:54 PM
are you talking about this lovely lady?:
http://drawingcowboys.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/tank_girl.jpg
loved the movie - never saw it sober though :DL
what movie?
Penguin
11-02-10, 04:59 PM
tank girl - based on a comic book
If he wont have her, I will have you changed your opinion, :O:
Fiancee?
Congratulations!
Regarding "ramming ideas" I can see that, but any given conversation is certainly voluntary, so anyone chiming in on a "core belief" in a thread, say, that is debating the veracity of that belief knows what they are getting into.
I agree though, it's not like minds get changed. I see it as less of an e-peen thing than just extemp practice :) If nothing else I think that the better argument threads sharpen arguments. Heck, I've even had my mind changed on rare occasions.
Tank girl now there's a comic and film I haven't heard of in a while :haha:
Castout
11-02-10, 05:58 PM
tank girl - based on a comic book
Try Israel there's plenty REEL tank girls there :03:.
VipertheSniper
11-03-10, 01:11 AM
Go read a history book yourself. People have been leaving Europe because they wanted to be shed of old world restrictions long before socialism ever reared it's ugly head.
Thanks for telling me what I already knew... but "the third man" is making it out to be like most immigrants left Europe because of socialism, at least that is how it came across to me.
Well, I don't think a thread will save it. Hell, even if we opened a whole forum for it, I don't think you'd avoid these threads in here. :nope:
What you should really do if you want to help is start more interesting threads NOT about politics. Just flood it out with merrier things!OK
http://www.subsim.com/radioroom/showthread.php?t=176735
Betonov
11-03-10, 06:13 AM
have you changed your opinion, :O:
If she can drive a tank, I dont give a damn what her hair color it is (as long as its not blond). I guess I'll have to move to Izrael
Yes, why not, it's always good to get new impressions,so you may choose hair color when you leave the flight, :D
Thanks for telling me what I already knew... but "the third man" is making it out to be like most immigrants left Europe because of socialism, at least that is how it came across to me.
Most immigrants left Europe because they wanted to be free. Whether it's a king or a politburo both still try to control every aspect of peoples lives and the people here are mostly descended from those who escaped that restrictive environment.
Betonov
11-03-10, 09:20 AM
Most immigrants left Europe because they wanted to be free. Whether it's a king or a politburo both still try to control every aspect of peoples lives and the people here are mostly descended from those who escaped that restrictive environment.
dude, thats like so before 1991
Fiancee?
Congratulations! I congratulate you very much, :cool:
VipertheSniper
11-03-10, 09:42 AM
Most immigrants left Europe because they wanted to be free. Whether it's a king or a politburo both still try to control every aspect of peoples lives and the people here are mostly descended from those who escaped that restrictive environment.
I hear you loud and clear, and I know that. So what's the issue now exactly? (I know I'm gonna regret that question). While I agree that Western Europe could certainly do with quite a bit less socialism, I don't see people leaving in droves for the USA. Sure the comment I originally quoted is right, but if you, like me, only take it as a comment on contemporary events it's not accurate (while still not completly wrong). That's all I was commenting on.
DarkFish
11-03-10, 10:37 AM
Most immigrants left Europe because they wanted to be free. Whether it's a king or a politburo both still try to control every aspect of peoples lives and the people here are mostly descended from those who escaped that restrictive environment.Yeah, because we don't have freedom in Europe
...
:doh:
...
<facepalm>
Yeah, because we don't have freedom in Europe
...
:doh:
...
<facepalm>
When European immigrants were hitting our shores en mass, no you didn't. In fact when one looks at the entire European history the last 60 years could be considered a only momentary lapse in what has been pretty much a non stop succession of tyrants and despots.
I hear you loud and clear, and I know that. So what's the issue now exactly? (I know I'm gonna regret that question). While I agree that Western Europe could certainly do with quite a bit less socialism, I don't see people leaving in droves for the USA. Sure the comment I originally quoted is right, but if you, like me, only take it as a comment on contemporary events it's not accurate (while still not completly wrong). That's all I was commenting on.
I think you have to look over the long term. I'm not sure what percentage of immigrants are from Europe these days but i'd bet it's only a trickle compared to the waves that came to our shores in previous centuries and it could be that way again if this European experiment in democratic government turns out to be a passing fad historically speaking.
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