Things We Need an ID For...

[Aramike]

In Wisconsin:

Buying alcohol/tobacco
Renting a movie
Buying "R" rated movie/"M" rated game at many retailers
Buying cold medicine
Applying for credit
Entering a tavern/club/adult establishment
And yet, we don't need an ID to vote. Several attempts were made to add this restriction by Democrat Governor Jim Doyle vetoed them each time uner the auspices that it would disenfranchise voters (including one bill which would have issued FREE identification cards to those least likely to have one).

Excuse me, but really? It doesn't bother local democrats that a senior citizen would have to show ID to buy Nyquil but somehow it's an inconvenience to have to show one to VOTE?

Right now, when one goes to vote, all one must do is state their name and address (assuming they are registered). How does this not leave a door wide open to fraud?

Thoughts?

[mookiemookie]

I believe that ID should be required to vote. The only argument I can see to the contrary is that none of the things you listed are constitutionally guaranteed rights, but I still think pragmatically, ID should be required.

[FIREWALL]

Rent a car.

Buy an airline ticket.

[Platapus]

In Virginia, we have to present ID

[yubba]

Just tell them you are an illegal immigrant. ID I don't have too show, no stinkin ID.

[Castout]

Some people lamented that the result of an election is decided not by the voters but by those who count the ballot.

[ETR3(SS)]

Aren't you glad he's not up for reelection this year then?:O:

[Takeda Shingen]

In Wisconsin:

Buying alcohol/tobacco
Renting a movie
Buying "R" rated movie/"M" rated game at many retailers
Buying cold medicine
Applying for credit
Entering a tavern/club/adult establishment
And yet, we don't need an ID to vote. Several attempts were made to add this restriction by Democrat Governor Jim Doyle vetoed them each time uner the auspices that it would disenfranchise voters (including one bill which would have issued FREE identification cards to those least likely to have one).

Excuse me, but really? It doesn't bother local democrats that a senior citizen would have to show ID to buy Nyquil but somehow it's an inconvenience to have to show one to VOTE?

Right now, when one goes to vote, all one must do is state their name and address (assuming they are registered). How does this not leave a door wide open to fraud?

Thoughts?

I agree with you in that an ID should be a requirement to vote. One citizen, one vote. Prove you are who you are, and that you are here legally.

[Aramike]

I believe that ID should be required to vote. The only argument I can see to the contrary is that none of the things you listed are constitutionally guaranteed rights, but I still think pragmatically, ID should be required.You're exactly right about that - hence my frustration with the Wisconsin democrat (note I say WI) establishment. You said it best: pragmatically. Each citizen's right to vote is endangered when it is possible for a fraudulant vote to be cast on their (or anyone's) behalf.

What I don't understand are the true motivations of the Democrats here - I'd like to think that they would be as against voter fraud as anyone else, but they don't seem to care. Why do they insist upon this faulty disenfranchisment argument when it's clearly absurd AND even then, Republicans have introduced legislation that addresses EVERY SINGLE ONE of their concerns?

Ultimately, it bothers me that the only logical conclusion is that WI democrats feel as though they benefit from voter fraud and therefore wish to keep the avenues of voter fraud open. Any thoughts?

[Aramike]

I agree with you in that an ID should be a requirement to vote. One citizen, one vote. Prove you are who you are, and that you are here legally.Exactly.

Now does anyone have a logical reason as to why this would be wrong?

[tater]

Exactly.

Now does anyone have a logical reason as to why this would be wrong?

You can only be against this if for some reason you want to encourage voter fraud.

Anyone who wants voter fraud must know they benefit from it.

[Takeda Shingen]

You can only be against this if for some reason you want to encourage voter fraud.

Anyone who wants voter fraud must know they benefit from it.

I'll come out and say it: I think it is obvious that Team D has relied upon the illegal vote for some time, and will continue to do so in the future.

[Aramike]

I'll come out and say it: I think it is obvious that Team D has relied upon the illegal vote for some time, and will continue to do so in the future.I was hoping to slowly and logically built towards that, but you got it. :salute:

Believe in what you will, but the US is a nation built first and foremost on duly elected citizen representation. NONE of the Constitution means a damn without this basic building block. It troubles me greatly that there's a clear effort by one party to attempt to circumvent this process. And we're not simply talking about an example or two - we're talking about wholesale, public encouragement of voter fraud.

One can claim that aren't actually stating that their constituents should go out and commit said fraud, but what they are doing is much like a teacher posting the test answers on an overhead projector and telling the class not to use them.

[Sailor Steve]

ID: Yes.

[ETR3(SS)]

You know this has me wondering now if there is a way for me to see who I voted for in the past, just to see if I'm a victim of voter fraud or not.:hmmm:

[Aramike]

You know this has me wondering now if there is a way for me to see who I voted for in the past, just to see if I'm a victim of voter fraud or not.:hmmm:What state are you in?

I don't think you'd be able to find out who your votes were for, but you COULD make sure you only voted once in the elections you participated in, depending on the state.

[yubba]

By the sound the 9th circus court rule that you don't have show ID too vote.

[Onkel Neal]

I believe that ID should be required to vote. The only argument I can see to the contrary is that none of the things you listed are constitutionally guaranteed rights, but I still think pragmatically, ID should be required.


We agree on this. People should be enabled to vote, encouraged to vote, as long as they are entitled to vote. And since people will gladly lie about their status, then we all have to show ID.

[Weiss Pinguin]

I'm pretty sure when I went to early voting down here (Texas) I had to present ID of some sort :hmmm:

[SteamWake]

"Picture ID" is required to vote here in florida.

Its already stated so in the ballot so for this election cycle at least. :salute:

[Thomen]

It is not just the illegals you guys should be worried about. The legal aliens have far more opportunities to vote.

The only thing you have to show when you register to vote is some form of ID (usually drivers license). Here in Maryland, they will ask you every time you go to the DMV (or MVA) if you want to register to vote. They do not check your legal status, or if you are an alien or not. To obtain a drivers license you need a SSN. To get the SSN you need a work permit. No citizenship required.

When I had my drivers license renewed last month, they did ask me if I wanted to registered to vote. Of course I said no, but regardless, if I wanted to vote, I just need to say "Yes" the next time I am asked. And nobody would stop me.

EDIT:

I guess, my point is, a picture ID is pretty worthless, if it is not some kind of ID that is only available to US citizens.

[Platapus]

I To get the SSN you need a work permit. No citizenship required.

That is misleading. Yes you can get a SSAN if you have a work visa, but your records will be flagged to indicate that you are not a citizen to prevent you from registering to vote.

When you vote, you will notice that the election officer will look you up in a poll book. If you are in the poll book, your voting eligibility has already been established. This is why if you are not in the poll book, you will be issued a provisional ballot which will only be counted after your eligibility has been verified.

The eligibility is verified before election day.

[Thomen]

That is misleading. Yes you can get a SSAN if you have a work visa, but your records will be flagged to indicate that you are not a citizen to prevent you from registering to vote.

When you vote, you will notice that the election officer will look you up in a poll book. If you are in the poll book, your voting eligibility has already been established. This is why if you are not in the poll book, you will be issued a provisional ballot which will only be counted after your eligibility has been verified.

The eligibility is verified before election day.

If you records will be flagged, why do they still keep asking you? I highly doubt that any data that is based on the DMV records gets flagged in anyway. So far i was called up for jury duty twice, and they randomly choose the jurors here from the DMV register.

[Platapus]

If you records will be flagged, why do they still keep asking you? I highly doubt that any data that is based on the DMV records gets flagged in anyway. So far i was called up for jury duty twice, and they randomly choose the jurors here from the DMV register.

What are they asking you?

And you are correct, the eligibility information is not part of the DMV but part of your State Election Board, the registrar to be exact.

[Thomen]

What are they asking you?

And you are correct, the eligibility information is not part of the DMV but part of your State Election Board, the registrar to be exact.

To vote? Do you want to register to vote? Thats it. At this time the clerk already has my ID (drivers licence) in his hands.. They don't even ask for a Greencard or anything. Even, when I took the drivers test, or signed up for the licence I did not need to show a Passport, only my social security card and an envelope with my address.

For the jury duty? They send a letter telling you to be at the court house for jury selection at a certain date and time. On the backside of the letter is a questionnaire to fill out if you can not attend or not eligible.

Unless I tell them nobody except the DHS knows that I am not a citizen.

EDIT: Ok,to get more details, I looked it up.
I looked at the Federal and Maryland Voter Registration Forms, and neither requires a SSN, just an ID # that is valid and recognized in your state. For Maryland, your driver license number or state ID # is good enough. Unless, they flag the DMV/MVA records, I doubt there is a way to prevent me from registering and voting. Sure, if caught they may punish me. But that wasnt the question.

[Aramike]

I guess, my point is, a picture ID is pretty worthless, if it is not some kind of ID that is only available to US citizens.It's not worthless ... we're not talking about proving your eligibility to vote here - that's done in the registration process.

What we ARE talking about is proving that you're the person who's actually registered to vote, and to me that's worth it's weight in gold.

[Platapus]

you bring up a good point. The procedures currently are geared toward punishing people who falsify the registration as opposed to preventing the falsification in the first place.

As I posted in the other thread, I am in favour of requiring citizens to demonstrate their citizenship when they register to vote. That would require the changing of at least three federal laws and the corresponding regulations. What are the chances of that happening in Congress? :nope:

Perhaps we need a National Identification Card... see how well that idea flies.

[nikimcbee]

So how does this work if your're in Chicago? That's racist against dead people!

[Aramike]

EDIT: Ok,to get more details, I looked it up.
I looked at the Federal and Maryland Voter Registration Forms, and neither requires a SSN, just an ID # that is valid and recognized in your state. For Maryland, your driver license number or state ID # is good enough. Unless, they flag the DMV/MVA records, I doubt there is a way to prevent me from registering and voting. Sure, if caught they may punish me. But that wasnt the questionIndeed, that happens all the time (it's different by state though). However, those voters are EASILY caught and the punishment is pretty harsh, at least here in Wisconsin.

The illegal voter that is IMPOSSIBLE to catch, on the other hand, is the one who claims he/she is someone he/she is not. In those cases, there are no paper trails whatsoever.

So in your case there is a deterrent to illegal voting. What deterrent is there in the case of someone who simply cannot be tracked at all?

[Aramike]

So how does this work if your're in Chicago? That's racist against dead people!:haha::haha::haha:

Chicago's motto: Vote early, vote often.

[Aramike]

you bring up a good point. The procedures currently are geared toward punishing people who falsify the registration as opposed to preventing the falsification in the first place.

As I posted in the other thread, I am in favour of requiring citizens to demonstrate their citizenship when they register to vote. That would require the changing of at least three federal laws and the corresponding regulations. What are the chances of that happening in Congress? :nope:

Perhaps we need a National Identification Card... see how well that idea flies.Good point.

What you're talking about regarding the ID card is Real ID: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/REAL_ID_Act

It doesn't cover citizenship I don't believe but I don't see why it couldn't. But like you implied, what's the chance of Congress making sense? :doh:

[nikimcbee]

:haha::haha::haha:

Chicago's motto: Vote early, vote often.

Speaking of Chicago politics...
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2010/10/27/report-dart-not-running-for-mayor/

This has got to be the most corrupt place in the US.:shifty:

[Wolfehunter]

told ya this whole thing is a scam.. hehehe. vote the legal crooks. Choose crook a or b.. maybe c? :har: