What to do with escorts??

[Alky]

I'm frustrated! Anytime I come across a task force, I don't seem to be able to get close to the main target. How do I get past the destroyers & gun boats to get at the troop ships or whatever they're guarding. Once they discover me there's nothing I can do. Fighting them doesn't work, hiding doesn't much either. I tried getting in the middle of TF and hopefully get a target but only ended up dying quickly :(

[cdrsubron7]

First question, I would ask is what mods (if any) are you using? Second one would be is, at what speed do you approach the task force with. Think of it this way, the DDs around a task force are there for a reason and that is they are the best the Japanese have. If you are traveling any higher than ahead 2/3rds you probably will be detected.

I know that in TMo and RFD the AI has been toned down so the DDs are not quite so good at their jobs. If you haven't tried either of those two super-mods, try-em and you;ll see a major difference. You might try RFB first, as the DDs in TMO can be alot worse.

[Bubblehead1980]

First question, I would ask is what mods (if any) are you using? Second one would be is, at what speed do you approach the task force with. Think of it this way, the DDs around a task force are there for a reason and that is they are the best the Japanese have. If you are traveling any higher than ahead 2/3rds you probably will be detected.

I know that in TMo and RFD the AI has been toned down so the DDs are not quite so good at their jobs. If you haven't tried either of those two super-mods, try-em and you;ll see a major difference. You might try RFB first, as the DDs in TMO can be alot worse.


The AI in TMO is not toned down, the venom of TMO DD's are well known...

[Alky]

First question, I would ask is what mods (if any) are you using?
Second one would be is, at what speed do you approach the task force with.
Actually I've tried all the mods at one time or other. TMO and RFB both seem hard to me in that I can't figure out manual targeting. Just seeing a gray box and not knowing what direction they're going in, is a problem for me and the escorts seem to go in all directions, zig-zag, circles etc. I know I can mark a few X's in the gray boxes and draw a line, but it's only the main target that goes in the same continuous direction.
Before writing the first post I was running OM with no other mods but was playing an American career. I tend to work my way into a 90 degree position to an approaching target and then sit and wait about 1500 yds off of the predicted path and then use auto target when they're +/- 10-15 degrees off the bow. As I said though, getting close to a TF or convoy is next to impossible for me.
Is there some useful tactic I can use to get up close, put a couple fish into a juicy target and then run away?
Thanx! :)

[Armistead]

If you just want to shot ships and not deal with the AI use the easiest settings. Getting at ships isn't that hard if you act and think like a skipper and know what factors are involved. Even with TMO, the escorts can't find you unless you let them.

The main target is what you want, so use those lines as your set up. DD's basically do S movements as they patrol the screen, so it's not easy dodging their sonar cone. A lot of useful info in the sticky..Skipper bag of tricks...one thread Ducimas explains how AI works with TMO.

You mainly want to keep a narrow profile, run silent, keep your RPMs below 100, about 2 knts at most, but I perfer 1kt. The most important factor is wind, wind disrupts the water, the worse the water conditions, the better it is for you. You can get by with murder when winds are 15 knts. Try shooting at longer ranges until you figure out what you can get by with.

The only bad thing about auto targeting is you often have to set up based on where you think the ship will be when your torp gets there. This usually applies only after your spotted. Auto targeting limits many needed set ups as it only sets up the way things are that moment.

Take time and learn it, it's not an arcade game. You have to be willing to learn all the things skippers had to learn.

[Alky]

The only bad thing about auto targeting is you often have to set up based on where you think the ship will be when your torp gets there.

Auto targeting limits many needed set ups as it only sets up the way things are that moment.
Isn't this true with manual targeting, once you've hit fire, the torp goes where you expect the ship to be no matter what?

[magic452]

What i would do if I were you is to approach the TF or convoy at an angle of about 65 to 70°. This puts you clear of the flanking DD but still gives you a good shooting set up. Try shooting at longer ranges, around 3000 yards.

Try to get as good conditions as possible. Bad weather is best for you.
In good weather try to trail them till night to give you the best chance to succeed.

Plot the course of the main ships only, forget about the escorts till you are almost ready to attack.

With auto targeting the best you can do is shoot one or two ships, the longest range ship with the torpedo set to slow and fast for a closer ship.
dive deep and silent 1 to 3 knots max.
Once the ships start zig zaging auto is all but useless.

Manual targeting is not all that difficult to learn. Just takes practice and patients.

Use a single war patrol and go to the Luzon Strait, find a good single ship and save the game as soon as you do. This will give you a good set up for trying manual targeting, if you don't get it right just reload and try again.
Once you get plotting it's course and speed the rest is pretty easy.

If you have manual targeting turned on than there are several other attack methods you can use, O'Kane and vector analysis are very good long range shooting methods.

Magic

[Thrair]

Isn't this true with manual targeting, once you've hit fire, the torp goes where you expect the ship to be no matter what?



You can fudge the numbers with manual targeting to compensate for what you predict they will do.

[Alky]

Thanx Magic, some good tips there that I will definitely try :)

Thrair... thank you, I have much to learn & understand :)

[Bubblehead1980]

Okay, it's not easy and takes practice but basically say you are going on to attack a convoy with 3 escorts, one forward, one on the port side and on on starboard side, usually the flank escorts are 1500-2000 yards off the convoy..plot the convoys projected path on map and get ahead, stay about eh 2500 yards off their path, dive and go to 100 feet, silent running, 2 knots or less.Use sound to keep their bearing, come up to scope depth for a look, see what the lead escort is doing, basically in the game, esp TMO if they get within a 1000 yards or a little less and youre at scope depth, esp if seas are calm, they will hear you, the dial around your sub in the nav map extends 1000 yards, so your goal should be to keep them out of or just inside the dial. and keep a narrow profile, so say you are 2500 yards off the convoys path, moving north and convoy is moving south, make a slow turn and keep your bow pointed at the escort while trying to keep it at 1000 yards, this provides some pucker moments for sure but it happens.What will happen is evenaully as you turn, youve turned your boat into position for a good 90 degree shot and are closing distance for a close in shot, ideally in daylight with a convoy, you want to fire short distance bc with steam fish will be spotted due to the wakes, so firing from shorter distances means they have less time to react.Now, first DD is moved on, now you need to avoid the flank DD, say your are on the starboard side, notice what the starboard escort is doing.Sometimes you get lucky and they zig off to check the flank and leave that side of the convoy exposed, but if not, you may have to fire a little earlier than planned sometimes, depends if he will get to the 1000 yard safety area (the dial that surrounds your sub)where he may hear you which would make before you are ready to fire.

Now select your targets etc, double check your info in TDC, make visual checks, to make sure youre in correct position....Fire.Then it comes time for evasion, which is a whole different monster.

Now if you are playing auto target, well just point and shoot once in proper position.I play manual so the workload increases, but a lot of fun.Hope this helped.

[Armistead]

Think bubble kind of doe's what I like with TMO. The problem is if you get by the lead escort when you need to shoot you end up in front of the flank escort. What I do is try to come straight at the lead escort about 500 yards to his flank for a port setup on the convoy, the flank escort should be about 500 yards or more to my right. You need to come up after the front one passes. This works better for two lines. You want to come up about two hundred yards or so from the closest line in the convoy so you can shot at the line next to him at the front targets with a 45% or so.. I'll then speed up enough that I can shoot at the first line with my bows. Your shots are very close, 600 yards or so, your basically in the group that gets in the way of the escorts and you can turn and usually stay close enough to a merchant and ride with one out.

Course my favorite way is at night, a long range shot on the surface to pull the DD's away. You shoot from long enough range they don't see you, haul arse doing a end around. When they get to where your torps came from you should be long gone. That leaves a flank unprotected and you can do a closer surface attack coming in narrow, turn and run again. The DD's will come to that spot, but you'll be gone, repeat. With some light fog and poor moonlight I can get into about 2000 yards. Sometimes I'll dive flank and get closer and shoot and just stay flank to get away from where my torps came from why dived. Escorts will always come to where your torpedo's were shot from or where they saw you dive and work a 500 yard circle. If you stayed dived, haul arse, you'll have a few minutes before they get there, enough time to pull out of the circle.

The best thing about RSRD many convoys are huge and you can dive deep and come up in the middle of the group away from everything. If you're gonna dive to evade sonar, 43 on you need to get to 400 ft and you shouldn't get pinged.

[Alky]

The best thing about RSRD many convoys are huge and you can dive deep and come up in the middle of the group away from everything. If you're gonna dive to evade sonar, 43 on you need to get to 400 ft and you shouldn't get pinged.
Again more excellent tips.. tank you Armistead.
Coming up in the middle of the pack could be interesting, like fish in a barrel, except I've been caught by surprise a couple of times by armed merchants LOL

[Thrair]

Thrair... thank you, I have much to learn & understand :)


Heh, np. And if it makes ya feel better, so do I. Lotta folks in here who can pull off series of attacks I could only dream of.

Back on topic: One thing you can try if you are ahead of the convoy and have worked out their path is to race ahead of them and submerge below the thermal layer in their path. Then kick in silent running and wait for the lead escort to pass over you. When it does, bring it to periscope and turn to face the convoy. Be quick about it, though. In TMO, you tend to get noticed fast.

With me, I usually dive the moment the final torpedo leaves the tubes. This has the added advantage of reducing the odds of being sunk by circle runners.

[Armistead]

Again more excellent tips.. tank you Armistead.
Coming up in the middle of the pack could be interesting, like fish in a barrel, except I've been caught by surprise a couple of times by armed merchants LOL

When I say come up in the middle, that's come up from deep to periscope depth, with TMO anyway, merchants are deadlier in TMO than the DD's are in stock.

[Armistead]

Isn't this true with manual targeting, once you've hit fire, the torp goes where you expect the ship to be no matter what?

The torp will always go based on how you set it. However with manual, you can set the torps based on where you think the ship will be when the torp arrives. Let's say a ship is zigging, if you do your set up based on zig one, that's where they're going, the problem is he's gonna zig again, so you do your set up based on zig two, his next course change. His true AOB could be 40 port when you shoot, but be 90 port by the time the torps arrive, so you would set the AOB to 90 before you shoot, guessing where he will be. With auto it will always shoot based on the info before you fire, thus no way to time a zig, speed change, ect.