Operation Hartmut

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

April 9, 1940. Operation Hartmut is getting into full swing.

My Type IID has no way of making Narvik or Trondheim in time to enjoy the festivities, but we could reach Oslo if we punch it.

My question is, is it worth it. I'm all for taking an active role, but if there aren't going to be any targets about I'm happy to skip it.

On top of that historically U-13 was ordered to patrol around the Shetlands according to that great tome of all knowledge and wisdom (wikipedia).

Does anyone have any suggestions? Where and when are the allies going to respond?

[krashkart]

You might be able to find a landing force near Bergen.

[Jimbuna]

You didn't say what version of the game you are playing but if it is GWX3 then the answer is....Yes.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Sorry. Yes I am using GWX.

So should I hang around Oslo or Bergen? And how long with the Allies take to respond.

My little canoe is itching for a big plate of Royal Navy for dinner. Something more substantial than the destroyer junk food she's been offered lately. :arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Hartmut

There are Allied warships and merchants all around the Norwegian coastline but my own personal favourite would be to hang around Narvik and help your destroyers fend of the first Allied attack by destroyers then the second one by the BB Warspite and Swordfish planes.

Observe the times on the top right of each of the shots below.

http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/9441/narvik10april.jpg (http://img819.imageshack.us/i/narvik10april.jpg/)

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/3241/narvik13april.jpg (http://img4.imageshack.us/i/narvik13april.jpg/)

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

I'm not going to be able to reach Narvik in time. I'd be lucky to hit Trondheim by the 13th.

Is anything scripted around Bergen and Trondheim?

[Jimbuna]

I'm not going to be able to reach Narvik in time. I'd be lucky to hit Trondheim by the 13th.

Is anything scripted around Bergen and Trondheim?

On 13th April:

1) Small Task Forces off Bergen (usually consisting of CL and DD)
2) Troopships heading for Trondheim
3) Illustrious Carrier Task Force heading for same
4) Warspite and escorts leaving Narvik area
5) Large collections of troop transports north of Narvik

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/7291/67967124.jpg (http://img207.imageshack.us/i/67967124.jpg/)

[flugkapitan]

I'm up there in the fjord leading to Narvik right now in U-123, IXB. Got one C&D class from the first British destroyer force on it's way April 10th. Missed one on their way out.

On April 13th, I lucked out and was in the perfect position when the TF containing the Warspite (HMS Nelson in GWX) was coming in. I got inside the destroyer screen and 3 torps later, the Nelson was on her way to the bottom of the fjord.

I've started all my careers at the beginning of the war and always plan my patrols so I can take part in Weserubung/Hartmut. This is the first time I've had any luck sinking some British units during that operation.

Now I'm waiting for the escorting destroyers that were with the Nelson to come back from Narvik :arrgh!:

Cheers,
Scott

[Jimbuna]

If you are more than 50km from them you may be suprised to learn that the BB will be there with them again on the return journey.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

Thanks Jim.

I've restarted the patrol, and starting on April 8 I'll be running hot for Trondheim. Hope I get there in time. :arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

Thanks Jim.

I've restarted the patrol, and starting on April 8 I'll be running hot for Trondheim. Hope I get there in time. :arrgh!:

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Gargamel]

Is there a list of each 'scripted' event in GWX? Or maybe even a good resource so I can do my own planning and research?

I know it'd kinda be like having tomorrows newspaper, but that's part of the fun of this, being able to participate in the big events....

[Jimbuna]

You can access the scripted layer in the ME and run it from a tc in real time or larger/quicker multiples of time.

You could also use the SpySat mod and have much of what is scripted into the game show on your navigation map as it is rendered.

[Gargamel]

You can access the scripted layer in the ME and run it from a tc in real time or larger/quicker multiples of time.

You could also use the SpySat mod and have much of what is scripted into the game show on your navigation map as it is rendered.

Did a quick search, couldnt find anything concrete.

Is there a good FAQ or something for the ME? I just found the .exe a few minutes ago and I'm being very gentle with it.

In only a few words (so you dont have to write a SH3ME for Dummies post), could you direct me to the correct file to open and how to read it?

EDIT: NVM, I think I found it. I like the 'looping iceberg'. Icebergs on patrol lolz.

[Jimbuna]

Just in case your mistaken, you should find it in the Documentation section....failing that here is a separate d/l link:

http://www.filefront.com/17421104/SH3_MISSION_EDITOR_EN.pdf/

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

I'm currently stalking a light cruiser (southampton), three troop transports, and a some unidentified destroyers north of Trondheim.

My Type IID has three fish waiting to go. I'm thinking one at the cruiser, and two at the first troop transport, then beating a quiet and deep retreat.

They're off at 13 knots, so there's no way I can catch up to them for another shot.

Opinions?

[Gerald]

Trondheim's a dead-end alley, you can try to follow suit and see what discrepancies cruiser doing, the fjord is not very deep further into, but there is room to lower her anyway if you can get into the right angle, but check out DD's movements carefully...

[Gargamel]

Thank you for this thread, this made this time frame very fun!

9.4.40.
1451 Grid AF 87 Ship sunk! HMS Indomitable (Illustrious class), 23000 tons. Crew: 1279. Crew lost: 102
13.4.40.
0038 Grid AF 52 Ship sunk! SS Durham (Troop Transport), 9380 tons. Cargo: Troops. Crew: 484. Crew lost: 479
0051 Grid AF 52 Ship sunk! MV Western Prince (Troop Transport), 9381 tons. Cargo: Troops. Crew: 249. Crew lost: 44
16.4.40.
1110 Grid AF 55 Ship sunk! MV Northern Prince (Troop Transport), 9383 tons. Cargo: Passengers. Crew: 145. Crew lost: 31

21.4.40. 0226 Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 4
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonnage: 51144 tons


I've heard of Drumbeat, I'll need to research when that is. Are there any other major naval events I'll want to know about? There was plenty of radio chatter on my previous patrol to clue me in. Can I expect this in the future? (running GWX3)

I'm not looking for handouts here, just little nuggets of info from our more historically knowledgeable members to point me in the right direction for my own research.

[Jimbuna]

I'd simply refer you to #7 where you have a general snapshot of what is patrolling in the area....pay particular attention to those vessels north of Narvik because there are some big fish amongst them.

[Tessa]

Thank you for this thread, this made this time frame very fun!

9.4.40.
1451 Grid AF 87 Ship sunk! HMS Indomitable (Illustrious class), 23000 tons. Crew: 1279. Crew lost: 102
13.4.40.
0038 Grid AF 52 Ship sunk! SS Durham (Troop Transport), 9380 tons. Cargo: Troops. Crew: 484. Crew lost: 479
0051 Grid AF 52 Ship sunk! MV Western Prince (Troop Transport), 9381 tons. Cargo: Troops. Crew: 249. Crew lost: 44
16.4.40.
1110 Grid AF 55 Ship sunk! MV Northern Prince (Troop Transport), 9383 tons. Cargo: Passengers. Crew: 145. Crew lost: 31

21.4.40. 0226 Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 4
Aircraft destroyed: 0
Patrol tonnage: 51144 tons


I've heard of Drumbeat, I'll need to research when that is. Are there any other major naval events I'll want to know about? There was plenty of radio chatter on my previous patrol to clue me in. Can I expect this in the future? (running GWX3)

I'm not looking for handouts here, just little nuggets of info from our more historically knowledgeable members to point me in the right direction for my own research.



This current game when I was finally able to participate in the campaign I was quite happy with the outcome. Was able to make it Narvik and sit (rather boring for a day or so) in one of the fjords waiting for the task force to pass by. Once it did there was a BB sunk in chanel along with 3 other DD's on their first pass through (going into Narvik).

After they figured it was too much trouble to get into position to dc me (having 2 days head start to sit and hand pick a fjord made to lie in wait) so left after a few hours of futily trying. Surface at night to transfer torpedos, wait for them to come back out and sank another two.

Has been a very long time since I used a type II, if you were to leave very early (like two weeks) do you have enough fuel for a one way trip to Narvik? Once up there and you can dock at Narvik instead of heading home (which is what I did, burned up fuel too fast to get up there in time to make it back home in a timely manner (would've taken 2+ weeks cause of not being able to travel faster than 8 knots or would've run out of disel).

Clay Blair's pair of books Hitler's U-Boat War are arguably the best single book(s), they cover the entire war and go into a lot of detail. The whole Norway operation does occupy a good amount of space, but the book also covers convoy battles that in themselves are quite exciting and interesting to read about though not large enough in depth to fill an entire book on any single attack.

[Gargamel]

I'd simply refer you to #7 where you have a general snapshot of what is patrolling in the area....pay particular attention to those vessels north of Narvik because there are some big fish amongst them.

Ah no, not just Op hartmut, but all through out the war.

[Jimbuna]

Ah no, not just Op hartmut, but all through out the war.

For that sort of intel I'd advise downloading the SpySat mod:

http://www.filefront.com/13511842/GWX3.0_SpySat.7z

[Tessa]

For that sort of intel I'd advise downloading the SpySat mod:

http://www.filefront.com/13511842/GWX3.0_SpySat.7z

For as accurate as GWX is I'd recommend research :DL are many times when large ships/task forces set out to guard a convoy or VIP's that you can take advantage of. There's a few chances you have of even being able to "take care of" Churchill when he's out on secret missions aboard King George V.

Early in the war BB were often used as convoy escorts; have sunk several BB's on Convoy duty in the English strait or as far off as Iceland (ran into it less than a day out of the supply boat) and sunk the Rodney fast with 2 hits in a really nasty storm.

[the.terrabyte.pirate]

End of Patrol 9, and the End of Hartmut.

U-13 returned to Kiel with the scalps of a Southampton cruiser, a troop ship, and the HMS Nelson (I think) Not bad for a IID, and that's after one of the eels pre-detonated.

Thanks Jim.

[Arael]

Has been a very long time since I used a type II, if you were to leave very early (like two weeks) do you have enough fuel for a one way trip to Narvik? Once up there and you can dock at Narvik instead of heading home (which is what I did, burned up fuel too fast to get up there in time to make it back home in a timely manner (would've taken 2+ weeks cause of not being able to travel faster than 8 knots or would've run out of disel).


I can say from personal experience that you can easily make it up to Narvik in a type II. Not only was I able to get up there using 1/3 power, but I also arrived with more than 50% of my fuel remaining. I could have made it back to base with my remaining diesel, but I decided to put in at Narvik for a new torpedo load and a top off for the way home. Putting the Warspite on the bottom with a guppy sub has to be one of my most treasured memories of playing this game.

[Gerald]

You have time to go up to Narvik, but you can still go pretty quick to get some space, to clean up the harbor, where there has been no reinforcement yet

[Tessa]

I can say from personal experience that you can easily make it up to Narvik in a type II. Not only was I able to get up there using 1/3 power, but I also arrived with more than 50% of my fuel remaining. I could have made it back to base with my remaining diesel, but I decided to put in at Narvik for a new torpedo load and a top off for the way home. Putting the Warspite on the bottom with a guppy sub has to be one of my most treasured memories of playing this game.

Quite an impressive patrol, no doubt you'll have a nice Ritterkreuz waiting for you when you get home and (if you choose to accept it) command of a type VII or IX as a promotion. I don't think Kretschmer was that successful during his command of one of the ducks even tonnage wise (no duck (type II) ever sunk a BB) so you'd be heralded when you got home and given the whole propogranda tour.

When you think about it would have been a real embarrasement to the British to have one of their premier capital ships sunk by a glorified WWI submarine. There's no way to spin that to make it even palatable to the home crowd as Germany would have (for once) not have had to embellesh or make up anything, the truth of that patrol would have been heroic enough to stand on its own merits.

This time around I really enjoyed being able to participate actively in the campaign, sadly the Nelson steamed through to Narvik instead of the Warspite (still made a nice sunken ship obstacle in the middle of the channel though) but did bag 6 DD and 5 Swordfish. Once we docked at Narvik all the drinks were on me and we had a grand old time. Being quite the salty crew with it being our 10th patrol together it was tough at time keeping the guys in order and out of fights; we'd been spending almost no time resting between patrols and the guys needed to let everything out. From the start of the war we'd been out on patrol for a total of 182 days so far; figured after such a smashing success they deserved to enjoy themselves (a bit too much). Will be exciting (though won't show ingame) to be able to pass out to each crewman a Narvik Shield for their uniform.

11.4.40.
1845 Grid AF 38 Aircraft destroyed! Swordfish
1845 Grid AF 38 Aircraft destroyed! Swordfish
1846 Grid AF 38 Aircraft destroyed! Swordfish

13.4.40.

0421 Long 16° 26' E, Lat 68° 24' N Ship sunk! HMS Nelson, 36000 tons. Crew: 1333. Crew lost: 346
0533 Long 16° 25' E, Lat 68° 25' N Ship sunk! HMS Punjabi (Tribal class), 1850 tons. Crew: 243. Crew lost: 196
0541 Long 16° 26' E, Lat 68° 25' N Ship sunk! HMS Diamond (C&D classes), 1375 tons. Crew: 182. Crew lost: 152
0603 Long 16° 26' E, Lat 68° 25' N Ship sunk! HMS Dainty (C&D classes), 1375 tons. Crew: 145. Crew lost: 53
0659 Long 16° 28' E, Lat 68° 27' N Aircraft destroyed! Swordfish
0700 Long 16° 28' E, Lat 68° 27' N Aircraft destroyed! Swordfish
0737 Long 16° 29' E, Lat 68° 25' N Ship sunk! HMS Cayuga (Tribal class), 1850 tons. Crew: 237. Crew lost: 7
0935 Long 16° 27' E, Lat 68° 24' N Ship sunk! HMCS Hudon (Tribal class), 1850 tons. Crew: 265. Crew lost: 251
1200 Long 16° 28' E, Lat 68° 24' N Ship sunk! HMCS Haida (Tribal class), 1850 tons. Crew: 260. Crew lost: 148 1541
Patrol results
Crew losses: 0
Ships sunk: 7
Aircraft destroyed: 5
Patrol tonnage: 46150 tons

[Pisces]

Hartmut began for me last saturday. Left Wilemshaven on the 5th of April, plenty of time to be there in time. I patrolled between AF58 and AF83, near Molde. On the 8th I harassed a L-class destroyer. But couldn't get infront of it. It detected and shelled me at every attempt. (I guess I'm not yet used to MaGui 3.4) But the repair crew always managed to patch things up. I tried to fling about 4 torpedoes (a mix of type 1 and 2's) at it but failed miserably. In daylight... no wonder. Plenty of map reports to chase over the following days. But all the ones that I managed to make contact with ended up being friendly, or neutral at the time. I felt a proud rush as Gneisenau and Scharnhorst passed in front of me when looking through the scope. Slightly annoyed though that they weren't enemies. Oh well, I warned BDu that this could happen! My previous patrol ended April 1st. That's what they get from cancelling all shore-leaves in preparation for a major offensive!

[Tessa]

Hartmut began for me last saturday. Left Wilemshaven on the 5th of April, plenty of time to be there in time. I patrolled between AF58 and AF83, near Molde. On the 8th I harassed a L-class destroyer. But couldn't get infront of it. It detected and shelled me at every attempt. (I guess I'm not yet used to MaGui 3.4) But the repair crew always managed to patch things up. I tried to fling about 4 torpedoes (a mix of type 1 and 2's) at it but failed miserably. In daylight... no wonder. Plenty of map reports to chase over the following days. But all the ones that I managed to make contact with ended up being friendly, or neutral at the time. I felt a proud rush as Gneisenau and Scharnhorst passed in front of me when looking through the scope. Slightly annoyed though that they weren't enemies. Oh well, I warned BDu that this could happen! My previous patrol ended April 1st. That's what they get from cancelling all shore-leaves in preparation for a major offensive!

Unless you run into a high value target, anything say aux. cruiser size or higher I wouldn't waste any more eels. Once you get into Narvik or some of the other hot spots the fjords create the perfect bottleneck that big ships can't manuever in. There'll be ample chance to take on more DD's; but best there are BB's and at least 1 flat top that are floating around at various places. Once in the action there's no shortage of targets, the biggest variable is will your torpedoes be all duds (like it was historically where 100% of the torpedoes didn't detonate properly even with impact pistols)

Then there's also the 150,000+ tons of ships that Prien found while he was there that were sitting ducks (literally, they were moored but left completely unguarded) but every torpedo he fired didn't detonate despite an expert captain aiming at a stationary target.

[Gargamel]

Then there's also the 150,000+ tons of ships that Prien found while he was there that were sitting ducks (literally, they were moored but left completely unguarded) but every torpedo he fired didn't detonate despite an expert captain aiming at a stationary target.

And screams of Bernard!!!! were heard throughout Norway that night.

I think I'd start kicking puppies at that point.

[Tessa]

And screams of Bernard!!!! were heard throughout Norway that night.

I think I'd start kicking puppies at that point.

Bernard found his way onto Prien's boat that day, to quote the book, "Pien in u-47 was nearby in Vaags Fjord when u-49 was sunk. Probing the waterways that evening, he ventured steathily into a tributary, Bygden Fjord, leading to the town of Elvenes, the objective of the main British ground forces. There he saw a heart throbbing sight: 'Three large transports, each of 30,000 tons and three more, slightly smaller, escorted by two cruisers' All eight ships were lying in anchor in the narrow south end of Bygden Fjord, disembarking troops into fishing boats.

Here was the opportunity for Prien to eclispse his triumph at Scapa Flow: sink in a single blow at least 150,000 tons of enemy shipping, including two heavy cruisers, and thwart the British counterattack on Narvik.

..result nil

Prien and his crew were dismayed and outraged. Eight torpedoes had failed against sitting ducks."

As enjoyable as Narvik can be in SH3, its was a living nightmare for all the captains that made it there and watched torpedo after torpedo run astray or hit their targets and then not explode. After he heard from Prien and the next few reports he told Hitler that the u-boat where uselss, they didn't have a weapon in which to fight with anymore and urged them to withdrawl them safely while they had the chance.

[desirableroasted]

In the November issue of Ships Monthly, there is a detailed article about the battle of Narvik, with diagrams and photos of some of the ships.

It's a UK magazine, not sure of its availability elsewhere (though I, obviously, find it here in Denmark).

[Alpha Von Burg]

April 9, 1940. Operation Hartmut is getting into full swing.

My Type IID has no way of making Narvik or Trondheim in time to enjoy the festivities, but we could reach Oslo if we punch it.

My question is, is it worth it. I'm all for taking an active role, but if there aren't going to be any targets about I'm happy to skip it.

On top of that historically U-13 was ordered to patrol around the Shetlands according to that great tome of all knowledge and wisdom (wikipedia).

Does anyone have any suggestions? Where and when are the allies going to respond?

During the operation, if you do make it to Oslo, all you'll find is an unarmed trawler. And by about 1300, the port would already be secured.
Bergen could be more worth it, but the waters there are very shallow.

I would advise you to simply pick out any escaping vessels around Norway, rather than making for these ports.

Good hunting...

[Pisces]

Unless you run into a high value target, anything say aux. cruiser size or higher I wouldn't waste any more eels. Once you get into Narvik or some of the other hot spots the fjords create the perfect bottleneck that big ships can't manuever in. There'll be ample chance to take on more DD's; but best there are BB's and at least 1 flat top that are floating around at various places. Once in the action there's no shortage of targets, the biggest variable is will your torpedoes be all duds (like it was historically where 100% of the torpedoes didn't detonate properly even with impact pistols)

Then there's also the 150,000+ tons of ships that Prien found while he was there that were sitting ducks (literally, they were moored but left completely unguarded) but every torpedo he fired didn't detonate despite an expert captain aiming at a stationary target.I don't mess with DDs when I'm around convoys. It's just that I was 'sent' there to clear the way for the invasion (somehow I didn't get any patrol orders from the MaGUI mod so I just volunteered the challenge), so any warship I was to get into contact with would be attacked. Alas it didn't work as I hoped it would. Also, I forgot to change the torpedo loadout. So I had mostly Type-1's aboard.

[Tessa]

I don't mess with DDs when I'm around convoys. It's just that I was 'sent' there to clear the way for the invasion (somehow I didn't get any patrol orders from the MaGUI mod so I just volunteered the challenge), so any warship I was to get into contact with would be attacked. Alas it didn't work as I hoped it would. Also, I forgot to change the torpedo loadout. So I had mostly Type-1's aboard.

The DD's became a Turkey shoot once I sunk the Nelson (admittedly from the pic it looks like a top-fuel dragster at max accelerator with the front wheel lifted all the way up (or forecastle in this case) the way it sank); was parked at the edge of the little pennisula to the far right (outside the photo) and sank the Nelson from that spot. I pulled backwards into the fjord and to my right so they all got jammed up as you can see in the photo.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/1481/narvik.jpg

Somehow one managed to elude a near point blank shot (~500m at 45kts) while the other three lit up like a Christmas tree as I plucked them off. Retreated back to my hiding spot to reload and wait for them to leave and their return course when they left Narvik (giving time to transfer the external torpedoes).