Time compression question

[SilentSnake]

I was reading an amazing silent hunter 3 story on another forum and it stated that setting the game at full time compression is not as realistic because planes can miss you. Is this true and would this happen with mines too. I.e the game cannot compress them quick enough.

[Herr-Berbunch]

It's not worth the risk, if you did hit one it'd all be catastrophic in an instant.

[Captain Nemo]

Above TC x128 there is the possibility that you will miss contacts. At TC x128 and lower you miss nothing.

Nemo

[SilentSnake]

It seems strange though to have a compression where you can miss contacts. Its almost like a cheat.

[frau kaleun]

At higher TCs there is also the good possibility that even when you don't miss a contact, so much "game time" will have elapsed in the split second of real time that it takes to drop out of TC and react that an armed enemy contact will not only have spotted you but will be in full attack mode.

Especially dicey later in the war when Allied radar may give them your position when they are still out of your contact range... by the time they are close enough for you to see them they may already be making full speed right at you with their claws out. :dead:

[Jimbuna]

It seems strange though to have a compression where you can miss contacts. Its almost like a cheat.

Nothing is rendered in your 'SH3 world' beyond a range of approximately 40/50km around you therefore any tc above x128 would mean that the distance travelled by a high speed airborne object would not/cannot be rendered accurately by the game engine and certainly far too quickly for the human senses to react.

[SilentSnake]

i understand. So it seems best to actually play at x128. I think im gonna start doing that now. Is this how you guys play?

[frau kaleun]

i understand. So it seems best to actually play at x128. I think im gonna start doing that now. Is this how you guys play?

That's about my max, yeah.

Earlier in the war I will go higher if I'm close enough to home (i.e., a German harbor) at a time when I'm pretty sure there will not be any enemy units lurking about the area, and I know where the mines are laid in our own waters and stay well away from them so that's not a concern.

But I'm up to 1941 now and sailing out of Lorient in my current career, and I don't think I'd risk anything higher in the Bay of Biscay. Anyway if I'm close enough to any base to be within contact range of all the friendly units there, I keep dropping out of TC anyway so there's not much point in trying to go too much higher.

[SilentSnake]

Its aug 1940 in my game and im sailing from lorient although my base has only just been changed because of the recent fall of france. Ive got CG85 and every time i start going down a convoy appears and i have to end up going back up to intercept it burning valuable fuel. I guess best tactic is to just sit their and wait for the convoys to appear. Just another question on compression though. Im using the GWX mod and whenever a big convoy is close to my sub the compression slows drastically. Does that happen to you guys?

[frau kaleun]

Unless you've edited the default settings for how TC works, whenever you spot a convoy (or any other vessel) it should automatically drop out of a higher TC and back to real time or at least a much lower TC.

So, yeah, if you are running at 128 (or higher TC) and a convoy comes within range, you should drop back to a lower TC. That's not to be confused with the "lag" that sometimes happens when a lot of activity is going on and there are many units being rendered in a small area, like a convoy appearing in range or when you're in a crowded harbor area going to and from base. Things can get a little laggy or choppy then, it sometimes happens to me especially when I attack a convoy and all hell breaks loose.

My first time sailing into Lorient the lag got so bad that the screen completely froze up several times - no CTD and I was able to dock OK but I was really nervous. I start patrols from sea now, the French bases may be a little more than my system can handle without killing the framerate.

[Jimbuna]

Its aug 1940 in my game and im sailing from lorient although my base has only just been changed because of the recent fall of france. Ive got CG85 and every time i start going down a convoy appears and i have to end up going back up to intercept it burning valuable fuel. I guess best tactic is to just sit their and wait for the convoys to appear. Just another question on compression though. Im using the GWX mod and whenever a big convoy is close to my sub the compression slows drastically. Does that happen to you guys?

Tis quite normal unless you have a high spec machine/system.

[CherryHarbey]

Yes, I seem to be constantly fighting the temptation to change my behaviour when the frame rate drops.
Realism tells me that my dip for a hydrophone listen isn't due for an hour, the bad voices try to tell me to dip now and find a big convoy.
Have to keep telling myself that I would only be cheating myself.

[desirableroasted]

Its aug 1940 in my game and im sailing from lorient although my base has only just been changed because of the recent fall of france. Ive got CG85 and every time i start going down a convoy appears and i have to end up going back up to intercept it burning valuable fuel. I guess best tactic is to just sit their and wait for the convoys to appear. Just another question on compression though. Im using the GWX mod and whenever a big convoy is close to my sub the compression slows drastically. Does that happen to you guys?

In GWX, fuel is almost a throwaway thing. In the VII classes, you have 32K+ of range at 8 knts, enough for more than 150 days at sea. If you stick to 8knts for everything but intercepts, and work out your convoy intercept plots accurately, fuel is the last thing you will run out of.

If you are using SH3 Commander, you have different TC settings, depending on what's happening around you. You may want to adjust those.

However, remember the math... at 128TC, you are pretty much giving the AI a 20 minute head start. That's one reason new players complain about their watch officers -- the watch officer sees a ship at 9000, but by the time you get to the bridge, the target may be already abeam at 3000.

I must admit, though, that I freely go around at 256TC (though at 8 knots) quite often in the early war, especially on the homeward bound, which I route outside (most) air cover. By late '40, though, 128 is my limit.

[JokerOfFate]

I must admit, though, that I freely go around at 256TC (though at 8 knots) quite often in the early war, especially on the homeward bound, which I route outside (most) air cover. By late '40, though, 128 is my limit.

I do the same, but I've always got my finger on the Crash dive hotkey.

I got caught off-guard a while back, I left the game on by mistake:oops:
next thing I know a Task force appears and opens fire on me luckily I had the sound on.

I fire a salvo off and crash dive, they all hit but 2 were duds and the third one missed every ship in the task force and hit a fishing boat about 10km away:haha:, sucked to be that guy.

But the lag was horrible even the sound was sticking

[Herr-Berbunch]

I do the same, but I've always got my finger on the Crash dive hotkey.

I got caught off-guard a while back, I left the game on by mistake:oops:
next thing I know a Task force appears and opens fire on me luckily I had the sound on.

I fire a salvo off and crash dive, they all hit but 2 were duds and the third one missed every ship in the task force and hit a fishing boat about 10km away:haha:, sucked to be that guy

Crash dive using TC - it'll catch you out one day! :cry:

[K-61]

To clarify: At or below 128 is the way to go in order to miss contacts and air cover? I've been using 256 in enemy areas and getting lots of contacts. If 128 is the gospel, then I will switch down, but not until I have a definitive yea or nay from on high [Jimbuna level].

[Jimbuna]

To clarify: At or below 128 is the way to go in order to miss contacts and air cover? I've been using 256 in enemy areas and getting lots of contacts. If 128 is the gospel, then I will switch down, but not until I have a definitive yea or nay from on high [Jimbuna level].

I can definitively say that after thousands of hours of testing GWX3.0 by a dedicated and skilled/observant team of testers it was found that anything above x128 could detrimentally impact on the rendering of aircraft in particular.

I can only presume this is also the case with the stock/vanilla game.

If you DO NOT want to miss anything that is going on around you my advice would be to make x128 your highest level of tc.

When I am playing the mod there are the odd occasions when I'll go as high as x2048 but that is usually when I'm mid-Atlantic and in a hurry to get to the hunting grounds off the US east coast for example.

[K-61]

Thank you, Jimbuna. I shall now alter my TC setting to 128 when in or near enemy areas. It'll be an interesting experiment to see if my contacts increase while running at 128, though it will double my real world game playing time.

[Jimbuna]

Your welcome matey....SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Marko]

Its aug 1940 in my game and im sailing from lorient although my base has only just been changed because of the recent fall of france. Ive got CG85 and every time i start going down a convoy appears and i have to end up going back up to intercept it burning valuable fuel. I guess best tactic is to just sit their and wait for the convoys to appear. Just another question on compression though. Im using the GWX mod and whenever a big convoy is close to my sub the compression slows drastically. Does that happen to you guys?


It happens constantly that my frame rate drops for some seconds when something is near me. Most of convoys that i find are not from the bdu messages but from my frame rate "sensor" (the most reliable piece of equipment installed on my boat). As soon as it drop it is time to dive and somethng is out there very far , it could be a ship a convoy a plane, dolphins or shrimps but something is out there and the hunt starts.

[Sailor Steve]

I intentionally ignore those, just because I don't like to "game the game".

[Marko]

yeah i know, but it happens so frequently that is hard to ignore them.

[LGN1]

Hi,

if the frame rate drops suddenly, I tell myself that one man of my watch crew smelt some smoke in the air (in 'Das Boot' Buchheim writes that this sometimes happened). Then, I stay in the area a bit longer and look around, but usually don't find anything and continue my patrol.

Cheers, LGN1

[SilentSnake]

It happens constantly that my frame rate drops for some seconds when something is near me. Most of convoys that i find are not from the bdu messages but from my frame rate "sensor" (the most reliable piece of equipment installed on my boat). As soon as it drop it is time to dive and somethng is out there very far , it could be a ship a convoy a plane, dolphins or shrimps but something is out there and the hunt starts.

lol are dolphins actually in the game. I dident actually realised mines were in the game till i stopped, went to periscope depth and waited for the weather to clear to find a big round spiked ball meters from my boat through the external view!! :hmmm:

[Marko]

i amnot sure if they are dolhins or shrimps but it is a sound of an animal of some kind. I ve got them on sonar from time to time. (in gwx , i do not not if they are in vanilla one)

[Jimbuna]

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/2215/sh32008083120243551.jpg (http://img2.imageshack.us/i/sh32008083120243551.jpg/)
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2811/sh32009052218553067.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/i/sh32009052218553067.jpg/)

[Herr-Berbunch]

You did that on porpoise! :har:

[Jimbuna]

LOL....I sea what you mean :DL

[Herr-Berbunch]

LOL....I sea what you mean :DL

:nope: Much worse :nope:




:O:

[Captain J. Borne]

That's about my max, yeah.

Earlier in the war I will go higher if I'm close enough to home (i.e., a German harbor) at a time when I'm pretty sure there will not be any enemy units lurking about the area, and I know where the mines are laid in our own waters and stay well away from them so that's not a concern.

But I'm up to 1941 now and sailing out of Lorient in my current career, and I don't think I'd risk anything higher in the Bay of Biscay. Anyway if I'm close enough to any base to be within contact range of all the friendly units there, I keep dropping out of TC anyway so there's not much point in trying to go too much higher.


You actually sail back? How do you have the fuel? You know you can end the patrol at your patrol grid after patrolling it for 24 hrs, right? (assuming your playing single player career)

I understand people like to be more realistic about it, but most patrols are so uneventful that I am too bored to drive home, usually im out of fuel by then.

But then again, after reading some of these posts, maybe that is because im running 1024 TC :/




and...

http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/2215/sh32008083120243551.jpg (http://img2.imageshack.us/i/sh32008083120243551.jpg/)
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/2811/sh32009052218553067.jpg (http://img242.imageshack.us/i/sh32009052218553067.jpg/)


Is this real screenshots from GWX? Or are they mods !? WOW !

[Philipp_Thomsen]

So Im the only one to cross the Atlantic at 8192x tc? :rotfl2:

[frau kaleun]

@ Captain J. Borne: Running at the most economical surface speed (~7 knots) except when absolutely necessary for offensive/defensive purposes, the range of a VIIB in the game is... I dunno exactly, but a lot. Around 30,000 km IIRC, maybe a bit more. Even based out of a North Sea port I've been able to spend upwards of 5-6 weeks on patrol in the Western Approaches and still get home with plenty of fuel to spare once I ran out of ammo.

On one patrol I made it as far south as Las Palmas and after 7+ weeks out I still would've had enough fuel to get back to Wilhelmshaven if I'd turned around and gone straight home with no diversions - it would've been cutting it close, but the only reason I refueled there was because the hunting had been so good in that area and I wanted the option of hanging around a bit longer.

Unless you're using Commander to assign yourself patrol grids that are historically inaccurate for your u-boat type and flotilla (i.e., too distant from your base to be at all "doable" in any realistic way) or running at a very uneconomical speed for the duration of your patrol, there shouldn't be any issue with getting to the grid, completing a 24 hour patrol (at the very least) and getting back to base.

Just hitting the assigned grid and staying 24 hours and then going home - even if I sailed all the way back - wouldn't be realistic enough for me, even if I managed to use up all my ammo in that short a time. Which would be highly unlikely, unless I happened on a convoy and managed to fire off everything I had at it.

Besides, I keep patrol logs and teleporting home would make the times and dates look really weird. There's no way I could sink a ship with my last torpedo in grid DH73 and be back in base a few hours or minutes later. That's one reason I always sail back to within the required "docking distance" from the place where I'm going to dock. Or at least to within a few hours distance from it.

But, that's my personal preference. I can tell you though that if you are beaming your boat back to base after 24 hours in your grid because your patrols are too uneventful, you are probably gonna have a lot of very short, uneventful patrols. What frontboots did, mostly, was hang around their assigned area and wait for an enemy ship to appear so they could engage it, or for someone else to report enemy shipping close enough to be intercepted. Most of the time was spent waiting and searching, not actively engaging the enemy.

And, yeah, if you consistently run at 1024 TC, you are probably going to miss contacts. And eventually get yourself killed before you know how it happened. :yep:

[Sailor Steve]

You actually sail back? How do you have the fuel? You know you can end the patrol at your patrol grid after patrolling it for 24 hrs, right? (assuming your playing single player career)

I understand people like to be more realistic about it, but most patrols are so uneventful that I am too bored to drive home, usually im out of fuel by then.
Frau K gave your her answer. Here is mine. I will go as high as 512 while I'm in my patrol zone, but never above 128 while transiting places where aircraft are known to attack. I stay in my patrol zone for at least two weeks, and if I haven't seen anything in that time will move to an adjacent zone. I always budget my fuel carefully, and I always sail back into port and dock my ship the same way I sailed out. Of course I also rarely go above 1x while I'm in the harbor.

But, as Frau K also said, that's just me. I've played enough games in my life. I'm in this one for the history and the feel.

Is this real screenshots from GWX? Or are they mods !? WOW !
GWX is a mod. And they are in there.

So Im the only one to cross the Atlantic at 8192x tc? :rotfl2:
My computer barely runs it at 1024 in the open ocean. At 8192 it would explode. On the other hand SH4 runs fine at that speed.

[desirableroasted]

@ Captain J. Borne: Running at the most economical surface speed (~7 knots) except when absolutely necessary for offensive/defensive purposes, the range of a VIIB in the game is... I dunno exactly, but a lot. Around 30,000 km IIRC, maybe a bit more.

32,000 km, enough for more than 100 days at sea if you are running at 8knts.

Fuel is the last thing you are going to run out of in this game.

[Jimbuna]

Is this real screenshots from GWX? Or are they mods !? WOW !

They are scripted into GWX3.0.

If you have a wellseasoned hydrophone guy you may even be lucky enough to hear a shrimp fart http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/whistle.gif

[Jimbuna]

32,000 km, enough for more than 100 days at sea if you are running at 8knts.

Fuel is the last thing you are going to run out of in this game.

The SH3 world is a "Mercator projection" - meaning that the round earth is being projected on a flat surface.
This results in a great deal of distortion in the distances between objects.
for example:
On the round earth it is a voyage of some 3,300 miles (give or take) from Brest France to New York harbor...in the "mercator world" of SH3, that distance is distorted to a whopping 5,300 miles...not quite TWICE the actual distance.
A type VII sub would have no problem travelling at an economic cruise speed from Brest to New York and back acting conservatively but in SH3 you would run out of fuel about half way into your return voyage.
Because the SH3 modders could not change the SH3 world from Flat to spherical, they had to adjust the in game range of the U-boat by increasing it nearly 3 fold.

[K-61]

So Im the only one to cross the Atlantic at 8192x tc? :rotfl2:

My machine can handle 8192 but I seldom use it only in areas where I am absolutely certain I will not miss enemy contacts, which means very few areas once away from my base.

[Madox58]

Is this real screenshots from GWX? Or are they mods !? WOW !

They are Modded into GWX.
The Dolphins:
Base model by Ubisoft; Discovery & 1st tweaks by Sergbuto; Campaign scripting by Rubini; Hi-resolution skin by Tikigod; New hydro behavior, waypoint following, and sound assignment by Ref


The Whales were done by ref.
One of the first new animatons added to SH3 by the way.

It's all in the GWX 3 Manual if you care to read it.
Heck! Most questions can be answered by reading the GWX manual.
Have you seen the AirShips or 'Coptors?
Did you know they exist in GWX?
Can you locate 'Darth Lehmann' or 'Babe'?
Have you been in port and heard the Air Raid sirens go off?
Or seen the V-1's flying over the Sea Forts?
Dude!
You have no idea what is out there!

[VONHARRIS]

So Im the only one to cross the Atlantic at 8192x tc? :rotfl2:

No , I cross the Atlantic at 4096 TC. Not a problem with contacts. Of course when an enemy is spotted I have set the TC to drop to 1 immediately. Same does when radar detectors are available. When a radar warning appears TC drops to 1.

How can you achive a 8192 TC?

[Gargamel]

I fully understand the Human vs AI reaction time issue... but....

Don't you guys get really bored sailing to the Caribbean or other far off places at 8kts at 128x? I mean i go bonkers a 20kts at 1024 waiting to cross vast expanses of mindless ocean. And yes I have unlimited fuel turned on. I'd rather play a more real game, but I get bored too quick.

EDIT: Missed some of the thread, and I was really interested in Frau K's answer, and I got it. Still interested in others answers.

EDIT2: Was having issues with SC3H setting the times, sneaky sneaky way to force ya to read the pdf! Which i have no problem doing! (Side note: I think the GWX PDF is almost more awesome than the mod itself. Insane work people! :salute: ). So being able to crank it to 8kx, i'm goign to try more limited fuel patrols.

[frau kaleun]

Don't you guys get really bored sailing to the Caribbean or other far off places at 8kts at 128x? I mean i go bonkers a 20kts at 1024 waiting to cross vast expanses of mindless ocean. And yes I have unlimited fuel turned on. I'd rather play a more real game, but I get bored too quick.

I might get bored if I were sitting there just staring at the monitor for hours at a time, yeah. I won't say I haven't done that, because there are times when it's actually relaxing (a way to "decompress" from a far too hectic work week, for example).

But typically if I'm just sitting there with the game running, I will have the TV on in the same room and find something to watch, or I'll be reading a book, or doing something else that I can stop doing immediately if anything happens in the game that requires my attention. Other times I'll be up doing things in the same room - household chores like dusting or folding laundry. I'll go in and out of the room to do stuff as long as it doesn't involve getting out of earshot or so distracted that I miss an alert.

In a way that increases the realism for me, in RL it's not like a u-boat commander spent an entire patrol standing over the chart table monitoring their progress or up on the bridge assisting with the watch. He had to eat, sleep, and find ways to kill time when nothing was going on that required his immediate oversight or intervention. And with a good crew, that was probably most of the time.

I remember reading in one of Buchheim's books - I think it was U-Boat War - where he quoted Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock saying something like, a u-boat commander's first priority and most important "duty" was to be asleep whenever and however much he could... simply because, once they went into action, it might turn out to be a very long ordeal (either on offense or defense) during which he would have to be awake, alert, and making crucial split-second decisions for hours at a time.

So, you know, for increased realism... plot your course, go to 128 TC, and have a good nap. Just make sure the volume's high enough that any alert will be loud enough to wake you up. :D

[Kapt Z]

But typically if I'm just sitting there with the game running, I will have the TV on in the same room and find something to watch, or I'll be reading a book, or doing something else that I can stop doing immediately if anything happens in the game that requires my attention. Other times I'll be up doing things in the same room - household chores like dusting or folding laundry. I'll go in and out of the room to do stuff as long as it doesn't involve getting out of earshot or so distracted that I miss an alert.

I find that my "SH3 time", usually after the girls are in bed and my wife is watching cooking shows, is the only time I get to catch up on my reading or chores anyway. Of course, if I latch onto a juicy convoy the chores might suffer......:03:


I remember reading in one of Buchheim's books - I think it was U-Boat War - where he quoted Heinrich Lehmann-Willenbrock saying something like, a u-boat commander's first priority and most important "duty" was to be asleep whenever and however much he could... simply because, once they went into action, it might turn out to be a very long ordeal (either on offense or defense) during which he would have to be awake, alert, and making crucial split-second decisions for hours at a time.



Reminds me of a comment I heard somewhere years ago. Always thought it had to do with soldiers or those involved in combat.

Never stand when you can sit
Never sit when you can lay down
Never stay awake when you can sleep

'cause you never know when you'll get another chance

[Sailor Steve]

No , I cross the Atlantic at 4096 TC. Not a problem with contacts. Of course when an enemy is spotted I have set the TC to drop to 1 immediately. Same does when radar detectors are available. When a radar warning appears TC drops to 1.
Except for all the air contacts you miss.

How can you achive a 8192 TC?
SH3 Commander.

[Jimbuna]

Never stand when you can sit
Never sit when you can lay down
Never stay awake when you can sleep

'cause you never know when you'll get another chance

Or....never do for yourself what you can get another to do for you...an old internal police saying :03:

[Legionary74]

So Im the only one to cross the Atlantic at 8192x tc? :rotfl2:

Not at all, Im always at 8192 :D

[desirableroasted]

to spherical, they had to adjust the in game range of the U-boat by increasing it nearly 3 fold.

No complaints here!

[Marko]

......
A type VII sub would have no problem travelling at an economic cruise speed from Brest to New York and back acting conservatively but in SH3 you would run out of fuel about half way into your return voyage.
Because the SH3 modders could not change the SH3 world from Flat to spherical, they had to adjust the in game range of the U-boat by increasing it nearly 3 fold.

That 's good , i can stay at sea longer waiting for good weather :D

[K-61]

Especially when you're in a Type II and trying to just sip fuel so you can get to your grid and back. Between the modding of the Kiel canal and the more reasonable fuel load, operating a II is not such an onerous task any more.

[Jimbuna]

No complaints here!

That 's good , i can stay at sea longer waiting for good weather :D

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[Marko]

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

:rock: