View Full Version : Plane questions TMO2/RSRD
Armistead
10-04-10, 03:04 PM
I don't know if it's just me or if the planes are acting different, certainly this group is. Early war chasing a Carrier TF through the Indian ocean. All planes are carrier types or float planes from CA's.
I attacked the TF and now giving chase. If I dive constantly for planes it will leave me behind, so I'm trying to keep up and only dive when several planes attack.
For one, some planes, with the blue stripes seem to toy with me. They dive, but often don't drop, but after several runs they usually do. In the past they always dropped some the first pass.
Also in pairs usually the planes are far enough apart that they attack seperate, now they're often almost side by side and both drop at the same time...Talk about murder. Here is an example, that's a lot of bombs at the same time.
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2010-10-04_153216_504.jpg
In 1.9 my AA gunners rarely took damage from planes AA fire. Now they're getting wounded with each pass, some badly. I had to replace 3 gunners in a row from 3 seperate attacks. I like this, very realistic.
I skimmed through the readme, but seems only plane changes were sounds. I also thought RSRD changed most of the plane settings from TMO, because only a few types drop deep bombs.
Certainly not a complaint, love it, just wondered if anyone else noticed or just this is a rare group..TF does have 5 carriers.
WernherVonTrapp
10-04-10, 04:15 PM
I'm not far from starting a new career with TMO 2.0. Just out of curiosity, why are you still running 1.9? Something buggy with 2.0 that I'm not aware of yet?
Anyway, I can't wait. Especially since Ducimus said he was going to make some changes for the purpose of historical accuracy. Consequently, the A6M was armed with 2 -7.7mm machine guns in the nose and 2 -20mm cannons on the wings. That's a lethal combination for any sub. I've been attacked by float planes while on the surface too. It seems that if you are taking evasive action (starboard, port, etc.) it throws off their angle of approach and they have to maneuver around for a better angle. Maybe that's why they're behaving that way.
Armistead
10-04-10, 04:43 PM
I think you nailed it on the head. I did see the new machine guns on the A6M. I have a feeling these new guns are whats doing the damage to the AA gunners that never happened before.
So far just those planes that run in formation beside each other. Just so strange how they may make several passes before they drop. Like a cat with a mouse. With 5 bombs each, 10 bombs coming at you is badddd.
Course I seldom stay on the surface, but I don't won't to lose this TF.
Bubblehead1980
10-04-10, 05:46 PM
I'm not far from starting a new career with TMO 2.0. Just out of curiosity, why are you still running 1.9? Something buggy with 2.0 that I'm not aware of yet?
Anyway, I can't wait. Especially since Ducimus said he was going to make some changes for the purpose of historical accuracy. Consequently, the A6M was armed with 2 -7.7mm machine guns in the nose and 2 -20mm cannons on the wings. That's a lethal combination for any sub. I've been attacked by float planes while on the surface too. It seems that if you are taking evasive action (starboard, port, etc.) it throws off their angle of approach and they have to maneuver around for a better angle. Maybe that's why they're behaving that way.
2.0 with the new "beta patch" is awseome.Not buggy, made some great changes.My favorite is Ahead Standard gets you 15 knots now and is economical when it comes to fuel usage, doesnt take an ungodly amount of time to get around.Better underwater speeds as well in addition to better enemy aircraft(no zeros so far, just floatplanes and bettys) gun crews wear helmets, AA guns sound different from one another when fired.Late war Japanese ASW planes have a pseudo MAD(can detect you deep and bomb you deep I believe, have not played after Oct 44 yet with BETA patch though) Check the readme, the new changes are pretty awseome, esp in conjunction with RSRD)
Armistead
10-04-10, 05:48 PM
Beta patch...I heard about it, but didn't see it in the first post TMO thread, just a easier AI mod...I assume it's tucked away in the thread somewhere...got a link...I wonder if I would have to start a new career with the beta patch.
Bubblehead1980
10-04-10, 08:24 PM
Beta patch...I heard about it, but didn't see it in the first post TMO thread, just a easier AI mod...I assume it's tucked away in the thread somewhere...got a link...I wonder if I would have to start a new career with the beta patch.
I've been mulling it over the last few days, and i decided i'm going to "leak" what updates I have so far. Primarly because I'm predicting its going to be awhile before TMO is officialy updated (burn out's a bitch), and the changes I have thus far, i feel are important to gameplay, and it bugs me their just sitting here on my hard drive collecting virtual dust.
For changes, see the documentation directory in the download.
Install:
- AFTER TMO 2.0. and any optional TMO mods, but BEFORE RSRD if your running it.
- TMO optional mods for the aft deck gun are NOT compatible. I haven't updated that mod yet. So what you have is the default installation.
- You will need to start a new career game to see some of the changes.
- As always, be in port when applying this.
- If you don't like the bump mapping, simply delete the NO1.dds that resides in each of the submarine directories.
(example: data/submarine/NSS_Gato/NSS_gato_N01.dds )
- Feed back on changes contained within this update are welcome. Bug reports are welcome. Requests/wish's will probably be ignored if you don't present a very good case for them. (i'm really burned out on modding, so it takes a pretty good poke that strikes the right cord to get me to move on something)
Download:
http://www.filefront.com/17240111/TMO_20_Beta_update.7z/
Enjoy.
You will have to start a new career, but it is worth it.
Ducimus
10-04-10, 09:42 PM
Soo.. ahhhh.. I take it the changes in that unofficial patch are working ok? :O:
IMHO rel 2 with beta patch has been excellent. Been playing
since you released it 'cause I had the Truk slow down.
I also use the easier AI patch and it works with beta too,
I think. Just started using RSRDc and someone said I
don't need the easier AI with it. Thanks for providing us
with such a great game experience.
Zeros should not have any bombs. They were capable of using TWO 60kg bombs under the wigs, but in practice off CVs I've never read ANY accounts of them being used. Not ever. Maybe late in the war from land bases, but CV airgroups... nope. I've never heard of bombed-up Zeros in the SWPA, either. That pretty much writes that off as realistic. Late in the war if they had bombs, they were probably willy pete set to detonate in the AIR for use against bomber formations. In RSRDC they should have dummy bombs so they make passes (and strafe), but not actual bombs. If they have actual bombs I'll certainly be altering that for myself, anyway.
In the Indian ocean, the only fighters used would have been early Zeros, too. Even assuming the Zero as a stand-in for late war types (at later dates than 1942, obviously), they'd not be bombed-up.
Maybe the TMO version is different, but honestly, bombs on a zero would be like a fleet boat with a SAM launcher to me, very anti-immersive.
Bubblehead1980
10-05-10, 02:06 PM
Soo.. ahhhh.. I take it the changes in that unofficial patch are working ok? :O:
New patch is great Ducimus.Just wondering if RSRD changes anything with the aircraft from the BETA patch.
Also, when planes have the pseudo MAD, can they cal bomb/depth charge you when you are deep? Would be cool if they can.
Jan Kyster
10-05-10, 03:42 PM
IMHO rel 2 with beta patch has been excellent... Thanks for providing us with such a great game experience.+ 1 IMHO! :rock:
...so I'm trying to keep up and only dive when several planes attack.
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2010-10-04_153216_504.jpgNo offense, but there's clearly somthing very wrong with you, man! :stare: :o :dead: http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z15/subject_rod/smilies/faint2.gif
But love your images!!! :up:
My crew only begs me not to get any ideas... :hmmm:
Armistead
10-05-10, 03:49 PM
Tater,
I guess that explains the many fake passes. I'm weak on aircraft knowledge. However, one type will make many fake passes, then finally will drop. I'll have to look at my SS's to get the type.
The planes pictured are Zeros. And I see many bombs.
Ducimus
10-05-10, 05:00 PM
Pretty sure i took 90% of the zero's out in the beta patch. I may have left some on the home islands, and Attu, but the likelyhood of encountering them should be really rare.
In the past, i left them in, purely for sake of variety. It's not like SH4 shipped with a lot of planes to choose from. At any rate, i found some info in the interregation reports that gave me a clearer indicator of what i should and shouldn't be using for ASW patrols. One of them was a torpedo/dive bomber that was previously only assigned to carriers. (I forget code name) The first dedicated ASW squadron had 30 of them i think.
RSRDC has the zeros fubared with insane bomb loads. Must not have been corrected, all the others except early war zero are spot on.
Modlet inbound for RSRDC (any version, it's just 1 eqp file).
http://www.filefront.com/17355517/Fixed_Zero_Bomb_Load_RSRDC.rar
The Kate (B6N was used in that role sometimes. The Val (D3A) should not be seen very often.
Bottom line is that you can have all kinds of p-lanes, the trick is to adjust the airgroups and bases to be UN-realistic. In RL, far away, you'd see patrol planes (in this case G3M (Nell), G4M (Betty), H6K (Mavis) and H8K (Emily). We don't have a Nell, but it is land-based like Betty. Closer in on patrol you'd possibly see a Kate, etc.
Other planes would only be seen en-route to a real target, they'd not be looking for a sub (probably high alt, too).
Close to shore, near island groups, etc, THEN you might see a Zero. They'd not be looking for you, but as a Combat Air Patrol.
I never got around to it, but the best way to do air within SH4 limits would be to place them all on the map by hand, then use the airgroups only for REPEAT attacks. Set the airstrike to near zero, but have a contact report on your sub up the chances to near 100%.
Then patrols get put on the map as waypoints---as singletons (patrol planes should NEVER be pairs, dunno what the heck the devs were thinking (even in the ATO)). If they spot you, then followup attacks might happen as they do now. I'd shorten the range of some assets (Vals, etc) so that they'd only be seen inshore as followup attackers.
CV airgroups are impossible to fix short of dropping them to near zero aircraft since they'd only every have a CAP aloft, maybe a snooper or ASW asset as well---and Zeros would only ever be what they were FIGHTERS.
Bumped the thread to another page, here is a RSRDC Zero fix link:
http://www.filefront.com/17355517/Fixed_Zero_Bomb_Load_RSRDC.rar
Armistead
10-05-10, 07:51 PM
Getting confused here. I think Wernher told me Duc added machine guns to the A6M. I was shocked when machine gun fire from these planes wounded AA gunners every pass, never happend in 1.9. So the new machine guns answered that. Exactly what planes have the added machine guns. I'm not using the beta patch, but if you do will they still show up on carriers. Figured RSRD
would change things, but the guns are there, plus they carry 5 bombs. Still, RSRD nerfs or changes many TMO plane settings. Wish we had a small mod to add them back over RSRD.
This SS may be the added guns, I don't recall seeing them before. They seem to rotate, seems they even shoot you going away.
http://i651.photobucket.com/albums/uu235/Armistead1424/SH4Img2010-10-04_131234_582.jpg
Which plane is it that has the red tail wing?
RSRDC has planes with 20mm guns.
What settings do you think it "nerfs?"
WernherVonTrapp
10-05-10, 10:47 PM
Sorry about that Wolfe. I didn't mean to give you the impression that those guns were one of the updates Ducimus was referring to. To be honest, I don't know either way however, I did think there was a possibility that those were one of the upgrades he was referring to. Still, it was not my intention to lead you to believe that. Tater is right. Zeroes shouldn't carry bombs. That's what the Kates and Vals are for, w/carriers anyway. The army fighter was the Oscar. Looks similar to a zero so, the simple addition of some camouflage skins should suffice for any modders.:salute:
While Oscars were more likely to carry bombs, it would have been on a strike mission, not ASW patrol (or maritime patrol, period). In fact, the pathological inter-service rivalry between the IJN(AF) and IJA(AF) would not have allowed it, frankly. ASW was the IJN's bailiwick.
Bottom line is that single pilot planes would not be patrolling for surface contacts. Frankly, they so often had no radios that them sending contact reports is somewhat dubious :)
Bubblehead1980
10-05-10, 11:45 PM
Since adding the Beta Patch for TMO 2.0, no zeros(thankfully) have been encountered.Also running RSRD , pairs of Pete (white ones) are spawned but carry only machine guns.Another single engine floatplane(green) also spawns and carries two small bombs but usually misses. Thanks Ducimus.Cant wait to see how the pseudo MAD works once I make it to Oct 44.Did you make it where they can actually reach you with their weapons if they detect you?
Armistead
10-06-10, 12:44 AM
RSRDC has planes with 20mm guns.
What settings do you think it "nerfs?"
Few planes carry bombs that hit you deep, seems most in TMO could bust ya.
What I've noticed since loading TMO is plane gun fire will often take out my AA gunner. That never happened with 1.9. RSRD is the same, so no changes there. Not sure what settings are doing this, but I assumed it was TMO2, as that's the only change. In one battle I had two gunners wounded, one killed by those 20mms however they got there.
Again, the other change was planes were making many fake passes, carrying bombs but wouldn't drop. I thought these might be the fake bombs, but after several dry runs,...bam, they would finally do a full dive and drop...That never happened before.
Course I seldom stay up, but was trying to catch this TF, so I have lil experience with planes and plan to keep it that way.
Few planes should have depth charges. A DC loadout implied a plane specifically designated for ASW ONLY. Most maritime patrol aircraft would be looking for surface contacts. I've never tested the order in which planes drop their bombs, wonder if they could have B1-B2 dropping bombs, then B3 a shallow DC, then B4 a deep DC... interesting.
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