Newbie Help - A little overwhelmed

[Akela]

Hello,

I've installed the game and the GWX3.0. I've started my first career mission which is to patrol sector "AN18" and I left the realism options alone so I'm at 34% realism. I've managed to find the navigation screen and plot way-points to AN18 and we are on our way there. However, I'm confused/concerned about a number of things, here are a few.

Navigation: I'm sure you know that the manual isn't very much help for a new player. I was able to find the basic stations but there isn't much information on how to use each station. I plotted waypoints on the map, but is there a way to move a way-point, or delete it?

Crew: I don't understand how to manage my crew. I'm not sure I need to at this difficulty level but when I started off on my mission every crew member was at a station. The first thing I did was put the bow torpedo crew off duty but that is only 5 guys. There are about 20 other guys maning the boat. How in the world am I supposed to keep everyone from getting fatigued if I can only rest 5 guys at a time?

What am I doing? My mission orders were to patrol AN18. It's August 2nd 1939 right now and I'm in the Skagerrak on my way to AN18. What the heck does "patrol" mean? Am I supposed to sink ships? I know that sounds like the stupid question of the year and maybe it is but is Germany even at war yet? Also, I've passed about 10 ships just getting out of the Skag which I completely ignored assuming they were German. Should I have been identifying them? Should I have sunk them if they were British even though I'm not at my patrol point yet? What about other nation's ships?

Sorry guys, I'm terribly confused right now. I'll try to read through the stickies here tomorrow and see if any of this is answered there.

Thanks,

Akela

[Snestorm]

Navigation:
To move a waypoint hold your cursor over the waypoint (until it turns red).
Hold the Left Click botton down while dragging the waypoint.

Crew:
The engineering types will move by themselves between the Diesel Compartment, and the Electric Motor Compartment. You only have to man one of these. Try to have enough Petty Officers in there to prevent engine failure with a fully exhausted crew (you gain nothing in these compartments by exceeding the minimum).

First patrol in august tells me that you have GWX installed.
The war with England does not begin until 3.SEP.39. Don't sink anything before that date. You can use this patrol as a "working up" period, to gain experience for yourself and crew.
(Count it as "Patrol 0".)

Get used to checking flags for nationality of posible targets.

Enjoy. And ask as many questions as you like. There is always someone willing to help.

[Pisces]

...

Crew: I don't understand how to manage my crew. I'm not sure I need to at this difficulty level but when I started off on my mission every crew member was at a station. The first thing I did was put the bow torpedo crew off duty but that is only 5 guys. There are about 20 other guys maning the boat. How in the world am I supposed to keep everyone from getting fatigued if I can only rest 5 guys at a time?
...First, use the SH3 manual as a mouse-mat. Then open the GWX manual and start reading what a true manual should look like. It should explain the crew fatigue effects in detail. And in the back is an appendix about how to perform the attack and use the periscope/UZO and TDC. But that's not what you asked. Just some pre-emptive advice.

With just 5 crew members off duty you should only pick and place those that are significantly tired. Leave those that are not yet fully rested for later. SH3 is quite a micromanage in this regard. You have to regularly check if they become too fatigued. You'll only notice when the engine compartments are too fatigued. The others compartments can be easily missed because they come without audible warning or a line in the message lis. When you install SH3 Commander then you can select different crew fatigue options (no fatigue at all or some other mod-based profile ) DON'T use the crew configuration buttons in the lower right part of the crew management screen. It's known to cause crashes. (see GWX manual page 26)

[raymond6751]

You can use this pre-war mission to learn the controls without somebody dropping depth charges on you. When ready, head for home.

To make or move waypoints you have to first click on the map tool that would create waypoints. As you mouse over them, info should appear about what they are.

Once you have the tool selected, you can move or place waypoints in the way described by the earlier message.

Another useful tool is the ruler. It lets you measure distances and even leave the measure line in place.

Bon Voyage

[frau kaleun]

You can also click on the "Eraser" tool in the NavMap and use it to delete select waypoints.

First, use the SH3 manual as a mouse-mat. Then open the GWX manual and start reading what a true manual should look like.

:sign_yeah:

And don't feel bad about not figuring out every little trick of how to do things, some folks play for years and don't realize where all the tricks and shortcuts are until someone else mentions one in here. SH3 has a pretty steep learning curve. As already noted, you can use your pre-war August '39 patrol (or the Naval Academy tutorials) to get the hang of things.

The crew fatigue issue can be a real PITA, especially since in RL a commander would not be expected to micromanage his men to that degree - the watch/duty schedules would be assigned and stuck to, there'd be no need to tuck dudes into their bunks when they got tired, lol. And even if there were that duty would probably fall to the bosun or whoever was responsible for day-to-day discipline among the enlisted men.

At some point if you want to give SH3 Commander a try (it's a wonderful standalone program for managing many aspects of the game, your career, and your crew) you can use it to "turn off" fatigue or choose from several different fatigue models. Some folks like the aspect of managing the crew more closely in-game, so it's up to you.

[Herr-Berbunch]

You don't have to rigidly stick to the patrol areas given, you can go pretty much where you like with no loss of renown - just remember that if you go into the Atlantic early on (August) there are no French ports open to you so you need enough fuel to go over the top of Scotland to return home - after Sep 3, channel bad! (Or press Esc)

My personal preference is 'no fatigue model' using Commander, like Frau said it's not your job to micromanage your crew!

Enjoy it, it isn't the easiest game to just pick-up and play, but it is worthwhile and it's nice not to have such frantic activity all the time.

One last thing - you do know to order the Nav to follow your planned route? We've all done it, several times, and even knowing we did it (or didn't do it) it doesn't stop us from doing it again. Nothing worse than plotting your route out of the harbour, set your engines ahead and plough into a quay or some land!!! :nope:

[Tessa]

Granted am tired as hell and about to hit the sack, one suggestion I didn't notice (or might have posted in a previous thread) was to go through the training accademy. Jumping feet first into the game is admirable, though you can get some of the basic game ideas down through the five different training exams (sadly the one you seem to be having the most difficulty with - navigation, the test is a bit buggy so its hard to complete every objective; despite that you can still pass the test and get an excellent for score). At first the game can be overwhelming in what you have to do just to keep your boat going where you want it to, in just a few weeks it'll become second nature and will be hungry to start focussing on tactics and learning good places to hunt.

Happy hunting :arrgh!:

[Jimbuna]

Hello,

I've installed the game and the GWX3.0. I've started my first career mission which is to patrol sector "AN18" and I left the realism options alone so I'm at 34% realism. I've managed to find the navigation screen and plot way-points to AN18 and we are on our way there. However, I'm confused/concerned about a number of things, here are a few.

Navigation: I'm sure you know that the manual isn't very much help for a new player. I was able to find the basic stations but there isn't much information on how to use each station. I plotted waypoints on the map, but is there a way to move a way-point, or delete it?

Crew: I don't understand how to manage my crew. I'm not sure I need to at this difficulty level but when I started off on my mission every crew member was at a station. The first thing I did was put the bow torpedo crew off duty but that is only 5 guys. There are about 20 other guys maning the boat. How in the world am I supposed to keep everyone from getting fatigued if I can only rest 5 guys at a time?

What am I doing? My mission orders were to patrol AN18. It's August 2nd 1939 right now and I'm in the Skagerrak on my way to AN18. What the heck does "patrol" mean? Am I supposed to sink ships? I know that sounds like the stupid question of the year and maybe it is but is Germany even at war yet? Also, I've passed about 10 ships just getting out of the Skag which I completely ignored assuming they were German. Should I have been identifying them? Should I have sunk them if they were British even though I'm not at my patrol point yet? What about other nation's ships?

Sorry guys, I'm terribly confused right now. I'll try to read through the stickies here tomorrow and see if any of this is answered there.

Thanks,

Akela

Using GWX3.0 and SH3Commander (set at 15 days between patrols).....select the 7th/13th Flotilla out of Konigsberg.

Use the ships in the harbour for target practice (we have given you a little extra renown to offset the 'hit' you will take for attacking neutrals).

On the fourth day you will receive a radio message recalling you to base.

Press the 'Esc' key and teleport back.

Apply for a transfer to another Flotilla and your next patrol will commence on 19th August allowing you to sail to your assigned grid prior to the commencement of hostilities on 3rd September (as was the case in RL).

SINK EM ALL!! http://www.psionguild.org/forums/images/smilies/wolfsmilies/pirate.gif

[timmy41]

I suggest reading through the GWX manual, its very well written and actually interesting to read. From it youll learn all the basics, even of attack and evasion. its ~600 pages but youll blow through it quickly, its not mini-sized font and there are lots of diagrams and pictures.

[Snestorm]

To make or move waypoints you have to first click on the map tool that would create waypoints. As you mouse over them, info should appear about what they are.

Thanks for covering my ommision. I play so much that my brain does much on "autopilot" without conciouse thought.

[Alky]

One trick I didn't see mentioned here was when plotting a course with several waypoints and suddenly you get a contact close by, you can use the eraser tool to remove the plotted course, but holding "shift" while using it will remove all the waypoints at once so that you don't have spend time deleting individually while your contact waits for your torpedo :D

[Akela]

Thank you for all the advice, I will try these things today when I finish working.

FWIW, I did go through the Naval Acadamy missions (probably should have said that) so the one thing I think I can do is plot an intercept course and fire a torpedo. It's just that once you start your first mission you realize that's 10% of the game.

I'm going to read through the Grey Wolves manual today (in my cabin, don't want the crew to see me) and get back up on deck later today.

Thank you all!

[frau kaleun]

One last thing - you do know to order the Nav to follow your planned route? We've all done it, several times, and even knowing we did it (or didn't do it) it doesn't stop us from doing it again. Nothing worse than plotting your route out of the harbour, set your engines ahead and plough into a quay or some land!!! :nope:

Also be aware that when you are plotting a course in the vicinity of land, you should zoom in pretty close to do so.

Let's just say that some of the shorelines that look all nice and even when you're zoomed out a bit, are in reality all jagged and whatnot in ways that can only be seen when you zoom in on them, or when you run aground on them because there's a spit of land that juts out into the spot you plotted your course over top of without zooming in close enough to notice it. (For maximum thrills I suggest doing this and then ordering flank speed and retiring to your bunk for a nap.)

[flag4]

...reading all the advice just makes me want to play more!

@ frau kaleun - by the way frau, that photo of your printed manual is amazing - I WANT ONE TOO, but the cost....:hmmm:

it must be lovely to be able to flick thru when you need.

[reignofdeath]

@ Akela:

As Id seen below some one said that jumping feet first into the game is quite hard, I'd have to disagree and say its the best thing you can do. Just like learning a language, immersion into the game is the best way to learn. What I mean by this is plan to go through quite a few Kaleuns(German for Captain incase you didnt know) at first. By this I mean, intentionally try to get them killed, do risky manuevers, hunt in risky areas (We all hate the Gibraltor strait and the English Channel). In this respect, you'll learn real quickly what to do and what not to do realisitcally (If your into playing the game very realistically like a 1940's German U-boat Kaleun would do. I did this when first playing (Along with asking. ALOT of questions and btw reading the GWX manual helps alot too, theres some pretty handy stuff in there, I'd also suggest reading the newbie bag of tricks sticky, its very helpful) and I can pretty easily say that within about 2 weeks, I had gotten most every control and tactic down pretty well (Yes Im not perfect, but I had learned everything well enough to play and enjoy the game alot)

But even after all of that, asking questions is the best you can do. Id have to say you now belong to one of the friendliest forums I've ever found on the internet (No I'm not kissing your guy's butts :yeah:) so dont be afraid to ask questions, even if you think its stupid.

Welcom Aboard!:salute: and Good Hunting Herr Kaleun

Now Sink Em All! :up:

[musides]

Using GWX3.0 and SH3Commander (set at 15 days between patrols).....select the 7th/13th Flotilla out of Konigsberg.


What precisely is the advantage of SH3? I've read the mod page, but I'm not entirely clear what the mod does.

[frau kaleun]

What precisely is the advantage of SH3? I've read the mod page, but I'm not entirely clear what the mod does.

If you mean SH3 Commander, it's not really a mod - it's a stand-alone program that gives you an easy way to select/deselect/adjust a lot of different gameplay options, which it then "mods" into the game for you in one fell swoop when you use it to load SH3.

It also lets you create and manage a career and crew in ways that the game alone just doesn't offer. You can generate a new career there and Commander will generate not only a name but a picture and background personal data for your commander. You can then pick a month/year starting date for your career, a starting flotilla, a type/number for your boat.

When you're done with a patrol and exit the game you can open Commander and update your personnel file, that creates a file showing your career history to date which can be printed out. You can review your patrol logs, and if you've selected "use real ship names" in Commander's options, you'll find that updating your personnel file triggered Commander to flesh out the patrol log supplied by the game with data for the ships you've sunk - real historical ship names, cargo they carried, how many crew.

You can also use Commander to award qualifications, medals/badges, and promotions to crewman beyond what the game will allow in the personnel interface there. And print out a list of your entire crew. If you've checked "simulate realistic crew transfers," when you start a patrol you may get a popup telling you that one of your officers has been transferred out and replaced by a different guy, or that your Bosun went AWOL, or that your radio operator was killed by partisans.

There are also many other things you can do with Commander once you get a feel for how it works and what's possible - you can use it to apply mods only in certain date ranges, or to randomize various aspects of the game that you'd like to tinker with... in short it's just WAY COOL.

[musides]

Wow! :o

I've been a strategy gamer for a long time, mostly Paradox games for anyone who knows them. Strategy games have a wonderful history of mods, forums, and wikis, so I'm pretty accustomed to that sort of thing, admin a few wikis, etc.

But SH3 is, frankly, blowing me away. I mean, the Grey Wolves mod is absolutely insane: even the manual is freakishly awesome. Now, what you say about this Commander program -- I mean, come on, enough already! :O:

I'm used to free mods being "like" paid for expansions, being a good way to get more re-playability, etc. I'm NOT used to mods essentially being equivalent to a major version upgrade, and to top it off, having multiple mods like that? Holy *! I guess this means that when I start using Commander, I will have gone from SH3 to SH4 to SH5, all within the lovely confines of playing SH3. :)

[frau kaleun]

I guess this means that when I start using Commander, I will have gone from SH3 to SH4 to SH5, all within the lovely confines of playing SH3. :)

Well, not really, because there is no Commander for SH4 or SH5 - so with SH3 plus Commander you get something that you can't get with the other games at all.

One of the most immersive things for me with it is the amount of time I spend going over my crew list, doling out awards and promotions and transfers, and reviewing and keeping track of my patrol logs... sometimes I'll spend 1-2 hours after finishing a patrol just doing the paperwork. And you can't have a military without a little bureaucracy thrown in. :rock:

I am really looking to do some tinkering when I finish my current career to see how many things I've done with other mods or by manual editing of files can be more easily integrated into the game and controlled or varied using some of Commander's capabilities.

I couldn't find a direct link to just the manual - I'm sure there is one, but anyway - there's a pretty good "visual tour" in this post at the Ubi forums:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/857101043/m/8561071627?r=5541014627#5541014627

The screenshots give a pretty good idea of some of the basic things it can do. If you get hold of the complete manual you'll find there's lots more you can do with it.

IF YOU ARE USING GWX, make sure you also get the config files needed to use Commander and GWX together. A link to those (as well as Commander itself) plus instructions are in the first post of the stickied thread for Commander in the Mods Workshop forum.

[Draka]

Actually, you will in effect be getting a whole new game - SH5 took many things away from the sim in the name of "enhanced" eyecandy, as for instance the ability to wander through the sub and see all the crew at their stations, with some interaction available - which thanks to Flakmonkey et al we have most of that in SH3 WITHOUT taking anything away.

SH3 with the newest supermod-of-your-choice and all the added mods are what SH5 SHOULD have been - and the Ubi developers et al get paid for it, while all of this is gratis from a very selfless, extremely talented set o' folks hyar. In fact, in some of the posts on other threads where they list the mods in use, you will see caveats that unless you have a new, near top-o'-th'-line rig ya'll won't be ABLE to run them! Top THAT, Ubisoft!

[Jimbuna]

Wow! :o

I've been a strategy gamer for a long time, mostly Paradox games for anyone who knows them. Strategy games have a wonderful history of mods, forums, and wikis, so I'm pretty accustomed to that sort of thing, admin a few wikis, etc.

But SH3 is, frankly, blowing me away. I mean, the Grey Wolves mod is absolutely insane: even the manual is freakishly awesome. Now, what you say about this Commander program -- I mean, come on, enough already! :O:

I'm used to free mods being "like" paid for expansions, being a good way to get more re-playability, etc. I'm NOT used to mods essentially being equivalent to a major version upgrade, and to top it off, having multiple mods like that? Holy *! I guess this means that when I start using Commander, I will have gone from SH3 to SH4 to SH5, all within the lovely confines of playing SH3. :)

You could always send me a signed blank cheque and I'd be galad to write out the amount :O:

[Sailor Steve]

...or to randomize various aspects of the game that you'd like to tinker with... in short it's just WAY COOL.
Like the one I put together that randomly chooses between 100 different loading screens, and randomizes 25 different songs the band plays at dockside. :D

I have my Commander set up to randomize the gramophone tracks by date, since I picked up a bunch of files that were organized that way. Commander also enables a 'radio' mod that throws in speeches from Der Fuhrer and announcements about the war. After listening to them enough I've picked up enough German to tell a little of what't going on. My favorite is the one announcing Prien's victory over Royal Oak - "Der unterseeboot und der schlactshiff." :rock:

You could always send me a signed blank cheque and I'd be galad to write out the amount :O:
Jim, your kindness never ceases to amaze me. That you would even offer to do such a thing for a fellow member goes so far above and beyond the call of duty. It makes me proud to call you friend.
(I'll expect my cut in due time)

[K-61]

The one thing about Commander that disappoints me is that outbound ships also have a cargo detailed in the log. Most of the ships sailing out from the UK to Canada, the US and other destinations were empty, as Britain imported more than it exported during the war. Such ships sailed in ballast. I do not fault Commander for this, but it would be nice to see such ships listed as "in ballast" in the sinkings log.

[Madox58]

@ musides,

It's always great to see someone happy with the GWX Teams
(and all the other Modders)
work.
Makes it all worth while!
Thank You.


(I'll expect my cut in due time)

Um, You got your cut in Texas Mate.
:O:
It's called a Tee-shirt.
And not just any old Tee-shirt I might add!
Custom made and smuggled.....
I mean imported,
to the U.S. of A. just for you!
It was even given a ride in a Limo!
(Stolen or borrowed depending on how you look at the situation)
Now you want more?
:o
:har:

[frau kaleun]

The one thing about Commander that disappoints me is that outbound ships also have a cargo detailed in the log. Most of the ships sailing out from the UK to Canada, the US and other destinations were empty, as Britain imported more than it exported during the war. Such ships sailed in ballast. I do not fault Commander for this, but it would be nice to see such ships listed as "in ballast" in the sinkings log.

I think this would be easy enough to edit manually, provided you kept a note of which ships were outbound when you sank them.

[Sailor Steve]

@Um, You got your cut in Texas Mate.
:O:
It's called a Tee-shirt.
And not just any old Tee-shirt I might add!
Custom made and smuggled.....
I mean imported,
to the U.S. of A. just for you!
It was even given a ride in a Limo!
(Stolen or borrowed depending on how you look at the situation)
Now you want more?
:o
:har:
This was a private transaction between the Old Sailor and the Big Buna. Just because you're a privateer doesn't mean you can horn in on private Private's private business.

Well, it does, but we're not happy about it.

Especially since I know you'll want a piece o' da action too.

But since you could probably take us both on with both hands cuffed between your knees...

Okay, how much? :stare:

[Sailor Steve]

I think this would be easy enough to edit manually, provided you kept a note of which ships were outbound when you sank them.
Exactly what I was thinking. If you really want to be historical you could give me the name of each ship sunk, and I could give you the real actual true-to-life tonnage, since I know these things. And the nationality of the ship in question

Of course changing it in Commander after the fact makes it go all wonky, but still...:D

[Schwieger]

Some people cannot live without SH3Commander. I myself included. :haha:

[frau kaleun]

Exactly what I was thinking. If you really want to be historical you could give me the name of each ship sunk, and I could give you the real actual true-to-life tonnage, since I know these things. And the nationality of the ship in question

Of course changing it in Commander after the fact makes it go all wonky, but still...:D

I already do this with ship names anyway in some cases... some of the ships I sank in 39/40 were Q-ships, and since all ships from the same class are lumped together regardless of nationality, a couple of them got assigned the names of US Q-ships. None of which would have been sailing around the Atlantic in 1939/40, not to mention the fact that all the ships I sank were flying British flags. So I went in and changed them. There have been a couple other ships in classes that included more than one nationality where the names seemed distinctly American and I changed those too, using what looked like a British name from the same class list... ditto when I sank what the game ID'd as the Warspite, when it got listed as the Barham or something in my log.

What I think happens (IIRC) correctly is that if you generate your updated personnel file, the real ship names & data will go into the files that contain your patrol data. Then if you go into those files and do the necessary editing, the edits will show up in your logs in Commander. So far all the names changes I've made have shown up okay in my Commander logs, with the exception of the first one I did when I didn't follow that procedure. I don't see why it wouldn't work the same way for cargo as it does for ship names.

Of course if you change ship names, you need to add the one you decide to use to the used ship names file, and take out of there the one you aren't using so it can be used again later on if needed.

Edit: honestly for me a list of the real ship names divided up by nationality would be awesome. I don't mean a file that would be used in Commander, I just mean one for my own reference. I've considered making at least one separate shipnames file that would not include US ships, to be used up until Germany declares war on the USA. Some of the shipnames just seem so distinctly American to me that finding one in my log before that time is really jarring.

[Madox58]

Especially since I know you'll want a piece o' da action too.


I got one of those Tee-shirts myself.
So I have my cut.
Actually?
:hmmm:
I have TWO of those Tee-shirts.
:yeah:
Nancy gave me hers.
:rock:

[JScones]

Unfortunately, SH3Cmdr is limited in how it can implement ship names because SH3 is so limited. When you sink a ship, SH3 records only the ship class and tonnage. SH3 does not record nationality nor does it record destination, meaning SH3Cmdr cannot make decisions based on those elements.

Of course changing it in Commander after the fact makes it go all wonky, but still...:D
Create a Personnel File. This allows SH3Cmdr to create the "framework" within each Log_*.cfg file in your career folder. Then do one of two things:

1. Use the Patrol Log Editor Plug-in (included automatically in SH3Cmdr R3.2), and/or
2. Manually edit each Log_*.cfg file to your liking.

Changing ship names, removing cargo details etc etc can all be easily done and will be picked up by both SH3Cmdr (when you next create a Personnel File) and SH3.

I use the Patrol Log Editor to record nationality (and other unique lines, as can be seen)...

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/7751/sh3img1810200918344984.jpg

[frau kaleun]

I use the Patrol Log Editor to record nationality...


Okay, I totally want to do this now.

Steve, would it be possible to get a shipnames list like the one in the .cfg file you make, but with the nationalities of each ship noted?

Or even just a master list of all the ship names you've got, with nationalities. I don't mind doing the grunt work to sort them all out in whatever way makes it easier to implement them in my logs.

[JScones]

I'd recommend aiming for an automated solution that meets 80% of the need, leaving only 20% requiring manual intervention. To that end, you could:

1. Create an SH3Cmdr ship names.cfg file that just includes valid British ship names used between Sep39 and Dec41. It's a safe bet that most ships you'll sink during this time are British. This solution will easily meet 80% of your sinkings and will mean much less work for you to do manually. You could even go as far as changing the ship class names in Sea\EnglishNames.cfg to "British <class name>".

2. Create an SH3Cmdr ship names.cfg file that includes some Canadian, British, American (mix as determined by someone such as SS) to cover the rest of the war (or period as determined by someone such as SS). The odds are your sinkings will still get a correct "match", but there'll be more manual work to do here.

3. Repeat above for as many different lists as considered needed. Think laterally. If you are in an IXC Flotilla sailing over to the US all the time, use a list that is predominantly US ship names. If you are in a VIIB flotilla cruising around the UK, use a list that is predominantly UK ship names.

Use a copy of JSGME in your SH3Cmdr folder to swap them in and out as required.

You'll still have to edit in the nationality, but hopefully you won't have to play around as much with the ship names, remembering that SH3Cmdr also writes a "ship names used" log to avoid duplication, so if you modify manually and use a name that exists on the default list, you'll need to add that name to the already used.log file as well (this means that each ship list will have to be exclusive, to avoid name duplication after "crossover").

Make SH3Cmdr do as much of the grunt work as possible.

[frau kaleun]

I'd recommend aiming for an automated solution that meets 80% of the need, leaving only 20% requiring manual intervention. To that end, you could:

1. Create an SH3Cmdr ship names.cfg file that just includes valid British ship names used between Sep39 and Dec41

<snip>

Yep, this is exactly where I was thinking of going with it - making multiple versions of the shipnames file, each one to be used during a specific time period, and limited to ship names that would actually be appropriate for that time period. For me this would be ships actually considered enemy shipping, since I use the Contact Color mod and if something's not an enemy ship, I know it and leave it alone. In the unlikely event that I accidentally sank something that turned out to be neutral or friendly, that's where I'd have to sub in another ship name if I wanted to stay "honest."

Use a copy of JSGME in your SH3Cmdr folder to swap them in and out as required.

Holy moley hadn't even thought of that. Awesome idea.

You could even go as far as changing the ship class names in Sea\EnglishNames.cfg to "British <class name>".

It's like you're reading my mind! :D

I was sitting here looking through the game files for all the different ships, trying to figure out if it would be possible to add nationality in there somewhere so it shows up automatically... but I don't suppose it would be possible to differentiate between nationalities for classes of ships that are used in a lot of nation's rosters, by doing something with the files in the data/Roster/<nation> directories? I'm assuming that if you do it in the EnglishNames.cfg it's going to show whatever nationality that was edited in regardless of what flag the ship was flying when it was rendered in the game.

As you say though the likelihood of sinking ships from a wide variety of nations seems pretty small, so even there it would be less work to change "British" to something else when it happens, than to edit every single ship in the log after the fact.

One other thing I was looking at - adding ship names to the cfg files in the game's data/Roster directories. For instance, if I look at BBWarspite.cfg file in Roster/British/Sea, it's got 5 different named Units for that class. Could named units for other classes of ships be added in to their cfg files in the same fashion, or is that way too much data that would have to be loaded when the game is running?

While I'm looking at this I've also noted that the HMS Queen Elizabeth is one of the named units for the BBWarspite class, but she's already included as a separate ship as BBQueenElizabeth with her own cfg file and directory in the data/Sea folder. Is it safe to remove her from the BBWarspite.cfg file and have only the other four named units for that class? Just seems redundant to have her in there twice.

Or actually could you just remove the BBWarspite class entirely and put all five named units in the BBQueenElizabeth.cfg file? I think all those ships were considered QE-class battleships anyway and if so (and possible) that would remove the redundancy and be more accurate.

But that might mess up something with the campaign files, maybe they would have to be redone somehow to accomodate the change. I don't know how all that works. Yet. :D

Sorry to pepper you (and anyone else who cares to contribute) with so many questions... I just love the possibility of working out all these tweaks. I may end up cutting my current career short just to play around with using Commander to do as much of the tweaking as possible. :rock:

[JScones]

I was sitting here looking through the game files for all the different ships, trying to figure out if it would be possible to add nationality in there somewhere so it shows up automatically... but I don't suppose it would be possible to differentiate between nationalities for classes of ships that are used in a lot of nation's rosters, by doing something with the files in the data/Roster/<nation> directories? I'm assuming that if you do it in the EnglishNames.cfg it's going to show whatever nationality that was edited in regardless of what flag the ship was flying when it was rendered in the game.
Correct. SH3 works off ship class id, so if ten nationalities have an NTS01 ship class in their roster, then whatever label that id is given in EnglishNames.cfg is what will be recorded in your log file. FWIW SH3Cmdr maps to ship class id as well.

As you say though the likelihood of sinking ships from a wide variety of nations seems pretty small, so even there it would be less work to change "British" to something else when it happens, than to edit every single ship in the log after the fact.
Exactly. And exclusive ships like German warships and such can be labelled "German <class name>", or "Australian Bathurst Class minesweeper" etc and so on.

One other thing I was looking at - adding ship names to the cfg files in the game's data/Roster directories. For instance, if I look at BBWarspite.cfg file in Roster/British/Sea, it's got 5 different named Units for that class. Could named units for other classes of ships be added in to their cfg files in the same fashion, or is that way too much data that would have to be loaded when the game is running?
Doesn't work. Seems an incomplete feature.

[frau kaleun]

Correct. SH3 works off ship class id, so if ten nationalities have an NTS01 ship class in their roster, then whatever label that id is given in EnglishNames.cfg is what will be recorded in your log file. FWIW SH3Cmdr maps to ship class id as well.

Exactly. And exclusive ships like German warships and such can be labelled "German <class name>", or "Australian Bathurst Class minesweeper" etc and so on.

Yep, was just looking at the file too and saw that quite a few are exclusive to one nation. Just picking the most likely nationality for all the others would certainly be the easiest tweak. I'm pretty sure that I've got mods running that overwrite the Sea/EnglishNames.cfg file so it's just a matter of working the tweak into the appropriate place to be added into the game when the time comes to tinker.

Doesn't work. Seems an incomplete feature.

Bummer. I kinda wondered how different names in the class cfg files would work, if the ID/name for the class is just going to be pulled from the EnglishNames.cfg and that limits it to one per class. Oh well. We work with what we got! :D

Thanks for all the input and info and great suggestions! :sunny:

[JScones]

Yep, was just looking at the file too and saw that quite a few are exclusive to one nation. Just picking the most likely nationality for all the others would certainly be the easiest tweak. I'm pretty sure that I've got mods running that overwrite the Sea/EnglishNames.cfg file so it's just a matter of working the tweak into the appropriate place to be added into the game when the time comes to tinker.
Or use SH3Cmdr's "Static settings.cfg" file to apply the appropriate changes at the appropriate times, automatically. ;)

[frau kaleun]

Or use SH3Cmdr's "Static settings.cfg" file to apply the appropriate changes at the appropriate times, automatically. ;)

True, that file is AWESOME. I'm already using it for a few things and will probably use it to mod in even more stuff in my next career.

The only trick is that I'm pretty sure I've got a modded version of the EnglishNames.cfg file in there with the mods I'm using. So any changes written by 'Static settings' would have to work with that modded version, and be edited if I switched to another mod with a different version of it that included more or fewer or different classes of ships. I'm assuming that all the lines in EnglishNames.cfg have to correspond to a ship with a class cfg file in data/Sea, and vice versa. Is that correct or does it not matter?

[JScones]

Easy. Create one list of EVERY ship class that exists across all your modded versions of EnglishNames.cfg. Then add that list to Static Settings.cfg thus:

[0:data\Sea\EnglishNames.cfg]
ApplyToPeriod=19390101|19411231
NAMES|LSS=English Small Merchant
NAMES|etc for EVERY ship name you could possible have

[1:data\Sea\EnglishNames.cfg]
ApplyToPeriod=19420101|19451231
NAMES|LSS=American Small Merchant
NAMES|etc for EVERY ship name you could possible have

It doesn't matter if you write entries that don't exist in the game at that time; they'll simply be ignored (not seen) by the game. Creating one master list of all possible classes simply saves you the effort of having to tailor lists for each mod.

[Sailor Steve]

Okay, you've left me far behind on how this would actually work, since as we already know I'm kind of stupid when it comes to these things and don't always see the obvious.

@ Frau K: I could put up a copy of my working list, which includes the historic nationality and tonnage for each and every ship I've done. The only problem is I add several new names to it every day, so it's instantly obsolete. Also I would have to edit it first simply because I've found a lot of ships that don't come close to matching anything in the game, and it also includes a lot of notes to myself on names that don't actually match the class I have them with and why, plus lengthy footnotes on ships which don't match any class and are being held in reserve until a model comes along, if ever.

SH4 actually makes it easy to assign nationalities to models without significantly affecting framerates and loading times, or so I'm told.

[Jimbuna]

Jim, your kindness never ceases to amaze me. That you would even offer to do such a thing for a fellow member goes so far above and beyond the call of duty. It makes me proud to call you friend.
(I'll expect my cut in due time)

The cheque is in the post :DL

[Jimbuna]

Um, You got your cut in Texas Mate.
:O:
It's called a Tee-shirt.
And not just any old Tee-shirt I might add!
Custom made and smuggled.....
I mean imported,
to the U.S. of A. just for you!
It was even given a ride in a Limo!
(Stolen or borrowed depending on how you look at the situation)
Now you want more?
:o
:har:

ROFLMAO :rotfl2:

[frau kaleun]

It doesn't matter if you write entries that don't exist in the game at that time; they'll simply be ignored (not seen) by the game. Creating one master list of all possible classes simply saves you the effort of having to tailor lists for each mod.

Fantastic, thanks! :rock:

[frau kaleun]

@ Frau K: I could put up a copy of my working list, which includes the historic nationality and tonnage for each and every ship I've done. The only problem is I add several new names to it every day, so it's instantly obsolete.

The only info I'd really be looking for is the correct nationality for each ship name that is used in your shipnames files for Commander. I don't mind if there's a ton of other stuff included (which I would probably find interesting anyway) and I'm perfectly willing to sort through it the way it is ATM to find what I'm looking for. I can make a "master list" of ship names by nationality from that for myself (and anyone else who's interested). So yes I would love a copy of the working list as it is, if you don't mind sharing it!

From there I think it would only be a matter of finding out nationalities of any ships that get added to new versions of the file as you make them available for download and use, and some of them I could prolly find on my own via Google and if not, I'd just be a pest and ask. :D