View Full Version : Typhoon-Class sub pics
Legionary74
10-01-10, 11:23 PM
Im watching Hunt for Red October, and seeing the Typhoon class, I nearly fell off my chair. After a little research, I dug these up
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009/04/14/worlds-biggest-submarine/
Is it just me or is EVERYTHING that involves nuclear technology from the USSR looks like its hundreds of years old, with things broken and shattered?
Castout
10-02-10, 01:08 AM
They are cold war products and they may not have been receiving proper maintenance due to lack of funds.
They have a swimming pool there well it's more like a small pool but impressive nonetheless for a submarine.
Legionary74
10-02-10, 01:14 AM
Its a shame these were put to waste.
Russia should build more of these with up to date technology. Imagine them now? Still the worlds largest subs and probably the most powerful
ETR3(SS)
10-02-10, 02:28 AM
It was building these goliaths that helped to bankrupt the USSR. There is an old Russian saying/proverb that goes "Better is the enemy of good enough." The Soviet Union built things to do the intended job and that was it, no more. The Typhhon was designed to sit under the polar ice and launch a retaliatory strike up to a year after the initial exchange. Lurking under the ice for that long it didn't need to be sophisticated. As for being the most powerful, that depends upon your definition of powerful. If you looking only at nuclear armament then I think the Ohio class would have it beat there with its 24 missiles.
I've already seen some of those photos but it always amaze me to see how fat were those russian subs. :o
Admiral8Q
10-02-10, 04:05 AM
Its a shame these were put to waste.
Russia should build more of these with up to date technology. Imagine them now? Still the worlds largest subs and probably the most powerful
There really is no more purpose for those goliaths. Like ETR3 said they only had one role... revenge. Nice pics though. It shows what the human mind can create when we get down to it. It's too bad that killing seems to be our strongest motivation as a species.
Castout
10-02-10, 05:13 AM
It's too bad that killing seems to be our strongest motivation as a species.
No that's only the result.
To dominate is our strongest motivation as a species. All man endeavors in general in politics, education, economy, sports, science, military and diplomacy all those are intended for getting domination on more and more people.
Mankind are pretty much a primitive species still . . . . . .quite similar to baboons only with more sophisticated toys and rules. Many people are even convinced that they are nothing more than animal . . . .I'd suggest the zoo to have a particular homo sapiens exhibit and call it narcissist homo sapiens. Would make an interesting scene...but wait the whole world is one big zoo mostly. Forgive my negativity but I've years of experience to back what I just wrote and hold. Mankind are not sophisticated they are downright easy to guess since they're still primarily primal and primitive in nature. Forget moral forget ethics, forget rule of law which in some region only acts primarily as deterrence ONLY to the helpless. . . . . . .what they want is following their selfish desires.
Whoever decreed or created DEATH must be a blooooody genius. If a person who only lives a lifetime could become so much corrupted I can't imagine if they were able to live forever. Death you're beautiful and a necessity!
krashkart
10-02-10, 06:12 AM
I never get tired of those pics. In a way it's sad to see those hulks rusting away, yet comforting that that chapter in human history has come to pass.
Admiral8Q
10-02-10, 08:25 AM
I never get tired of those pics. In a way it's sad to see those hulks rusting away, yet comforting that that chapter in human history has come to pass.
I agree, but we're in a new chapter. It never seems to end does it?
@Castout, we have a long way to go understanding ourselves before we explore space. My cousin sent me this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAwl3aJ_ojw&feature=related
Watch the entire episode, it's quite interesting!:up:
The Third Man
10-02-10, 09:32 AM
There is an old Russian saying/proverb that goes "Better is the enemy of good enough."
Although often attributed to a Russian saying/proverb , much like the famous Stalin quote, "Quantity has a Quality all its own", it is actually a slight re-wording of a François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) quote....'The perfect is the enemy of the good'.
But yeah, the pics don't inspire much confidence do they?
SteamWake
10-02-10, 09:47 AM
Its a shame these were put to waste.
Russia should build more of these with up to date technology. Imagine them now? Still the worlds largest subs and probably the most powerful
Actually no its not I for one am glad to see the cold war era gone.
I should imagine the Borei looks a bit more modern on the inside. I do have a fondness for the 'phoons, and I'm glad that at least Dmitri Donskoy is still operational for the time being as a missile test bed.
krashkart
10-02-10, 11:53 AM
I agree, but we're in a new chapter. It never seems to end does it?
So very true. Makes one wonder sometimes.
To add to what Steamwake said; the Cold War era is one of those that is best left where it is. :yep:
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 11:57 AM
Soviet submarine designers had a penchant for extremes. This can be seen in the obsession with the 'largest' (Typhoon), 'fastest' (Alpha) and 'deepest' (Mike). The problem is that they tended to push the envelope further than what the technolgy of the day allowed. This meant that most of their designs were problematic, to say the least. In the case of the Typhoon, it was the enormous amount of maintenance required between patrols that made the boats too expensive to operate regularly. So the Typhoon really became a cool, if impractical submarine design.
Raptor1
10-02-10, 12:07 PM
Although often attributed to a Russian saying/proverb , much like the famous Stalin quote, "Quantity has a Quality all its own", it is actually a slight re-wording of a François-Marie Arouet (Voltaire) quote....'The perfect is the enemy of the good'.
But yeah, the pics don't inspire much confidence do they?
I've never heard it attributed to a Russian proverb. It's usually attributed to Admiral Gorshkov, who probably adapted it from the similar quotes by Clausewitz and Voltaire.
Platapus
10-02-10, 12:30 PM
That is one big boat!
I think it was a good design for its mission, but that's all it was good for.
I still get a kick out of those pictures. 25 years ago we would have killed for those pictures. Now they are on the internets tubes.
twas ever thus..
:)
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 12:33 PM
25 years ago we would have killed for those pictures. Now they are on the internets tubes.
So very true.
Legionary74
10-02-10, 12:39 PM
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Jimbuna
10-02-10, 03:41 PM
They were veritable mammoths but always lacked in keeping up with US technology.
Well, it helped that IIRC the SOP during wartime would have been for them to sit in the noisy Arctic ice until the order came to launch. Not the easiest of places to track boomers, and there would have probably have been an Akula or Victor III sitting nearby to spice things up.
Either that or they've have bastioned them and put them in the protection of a minefield, but I suspect they would have done that more with the Deltas.
http://www.stardestroyer.net/Armour/ShepDoDPix/SLBM.jpg
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 04:31 PM
.....the Deltas.
The late Deltas were absolutely superior to the Typhoons.
The Third Man
10-02-10, 04:50 PM
The late Deltas were absolutely superior to the Typhoons.
What do you base that opinion on?
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 04:56 PM
What do you base that opinion on?
Aside from the technical data, which you can look up yourself, the fact that the Delta IVs remain in service while the most of the Typhoons are rusting off Polyarny. A design that cannot be efficiently serviced is a poor design.
I would tend to agree and base this upon age (Last 'phoon commissioned in 89, last Delta IV commissioned in '92), size (smaller equals less flow noise and easier/cheaper to maintain), and the fact that all of them are still in service.
A submarine that you cannot afford to run is as useful as a Type II uboat in 2010.
Although, I do concede that the Typhoons were more survivable and carried more ordinance than the Delta IVs, but operational statistics speak for themselves. :yep:
The Third Man
10-02-10, 04:58 PM
Aside from the technical data, which you can look up yourself, the fact that the Delta IVs remain in service while the most of the Typhoons are rusting off Polyarny. A design that cannot be efficiently serviced is a poor design.
Links to prove your point. But it is your opinion either way. Its like saying women are prositutes. So they are in servince.
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 05:12 PM
Links to prove your point.
Links? We use books when talking about our submarines on SubSim:
Cold War Submarines--The Design and Construction of US and Soviet Submarines, Norman Polmar/K. J. Moore, ISBN 1-57488-594-4, Pgs 194-199, 297-305, 307-336.
Jane's Submarines--War Beneath the Waves, Robert Hutchinson, ISBN 0 00 710558 4, Pgs 172-175, 184-193.
The Naval Institue Guide to the Soviet Navy, 5th Edition, Norman Polmar, ISBN 0-87021-241-9, Pgs 23-36, 38-45, 92-115, 413-430.
Or, if you are too lazy for all of that, you could look for some scraps on http://www.fas.org/
The Third Man
10-02-10, 05:32 PM
Links? We use books when talking about our submarines on SubSim:
OK. Where are your books? :)
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 05:38 PM
OK. Where are your books? :)
I gave you the pages and ISBN numbers. That's print media. It trumps web media. But, you just want to be a pain, right?
Do you have anything productive to add to the discussion, or were you just looking to trash the place? In the case of the latter, please just move on. We're trying to talk submarines here.
The Third Man
10-02-10, 05:42 PM
I love the fact that you bend over for me. Allentown.
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 05:43 PM
I love the fact that you bend over for me. Allentown.
No problem, wastey. :up:
Anyhow, back to topic:
Oberon, I concede that the Typhoons are certainly better for strict operations under the ice. There are certainly some design features that make the boats very capable. Still, as you said, the service record speaks for itself.
The Third Man
10-02-10, 05:53 PM
Dixie Chicken? Nope , Billy joel, Bruce Springsteen.
Castout
10-02-10, 05:55 PM
I should imagine the Borei looks a bit more modern on the inside. I do have a fondness for the 'phoons, and I'm glad that at least Dmitri Donskoy is still operational for the time being as a missile test bed.
DWX have the Phoons playable. Judging from the torpedo layout they are rather obsolete(with ability to launch short range torpedo only). I think the only reason the Russians are keeping 2 of them operational is to serve as a testbed for the Bulava ballistic missile.
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 05:56 PM
DWX have them playable. Judging from the torpedo layout they are rather obsolete(with ability to launch short range torpedo only)
SCX had them! Later versions even had SLBMs modeled, but they were only able to be used by the AI subs. Still, took my hand at driving one a few times. :rock:
Cold War Submarines--The Design and Construction of US and Soviet Submarines, Norman Polmar/K. J. Moore, ISBN 1-57488-594-4, Pgs 194-199, 297-305, 307-336.
Fantastic book, absolutely fantastic. :yeah::salute:
Castout
10-02-10, 06:19 PM
SCX had them! Later versions even had SLBMs modeled, but they were only able to be used by the AI subs. Still, took my hand at driving one a few times. :rock:
SCX? LOL. Classic! but Dangerous Waters is just so much better than Sub Command.
Typhoon video on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I6EX9Ef4x6A&feature=related
part 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNuUDxbRJ14&feature=related
part 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2xPvLWzuxE&feature=related
part 3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUWVGbvIYJU&feature=related
No subtitle though
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 06:22 PM
I remember seeing those vids! Simply awesome. Wish I spoke Russian. :cry:
Sub Command was my second modern subsim, I came from Fast Attack, so as you can imagine the 688i is my baby. I remember when the DWX came through that gave SLBMs to AI boomers, I made a comment along the lines of:
"Boomers can go boom?! Yay!"
Good times. :rock:
TLAM Strike
10-02-10, 06:32 PM
DWX have the Phoons playable. Judging from the torpedo layout they are rather obsolete(with ability to launch short range torpedo only). I think the only reason the Russians are keeping 2 of them operational is to serve as a testbed for the Bulava ballistic missile.
Short range torpedoes make sense, the weapons on SSBNs are defensive in nature.
Fantastic book, absolutely fantastic. :yeah::salute:
I've read it, really good! I recommend it to all.
I should imagine the Borei looks a bit more modern on the inside. I do have a fondness for the 'phoons, and I'm glad that at least Dmitri Donskoy is still operational for the time being as a missile test bed.
Well these are not of the Borei but I think they would look much like this:
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/3316/57473182.jpg
http://img541.imageshack.us/img541/246/57473202.jpg
http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/2212/57473222.jpg
^Those are from the Lada class submarine St. Petersburg
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5299/nerpaakulathumb.jpg
^That is from the Akula class SSN Nerpa
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 07:02 PM
Do you mind if I ask where you got those pics, TLAM? They are amazing.
Castout
10-02-10, 07:28 PM
Amazing picture TLAM but it doesn't answer the critical question. Is Putin included in every submarine arsenal? :D. I mean he's a tough one. When out of the tubes he'll do some serious damage to anything unfriendly to Russia :-)
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 07:30 PM
Amazing picture TLAM but it doesn't answer the critical question. Is Putin included in every submarine arsenal? :D. I mean he's a tough one.
No, but they've got this painted on all the torps:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EWCogYKTe0M/SXiu_nHzBNI/AAAAAAAAAGA/QiE-gUAmeE0/s400/Putin_cazando_Siberia-702624.jpg
TLAM Strike
10-02-10, 07:44 PM
Do you mind if I ask where you got those pics, TLAM? They are amazing.
I came across them over at militaryphotos.net via a Google Search.
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 07:47 PM
I came across them over at militaryphotos.net via a Google Search.
Wow. I figured that they were from a private collection of yours.
Not to knock the Russian tech, but Nerpa's cable arrangement looks like it could belong to an auditorium sound board.
TLAM Strike
10-02-10, 07:57 PM
Not to knock the Russian tech, but Nerpa's cable arrangement looks like it could belong to an auditorium sound board. The Nerpa may have export gear. She is going to be turned over to the Indian Navy soon.
Takeda Shingen
10-02-10, 07:59 PM
The Nerpa may have export gear. She is going to be turned over to the Indian Navy soon.
Ohhhhh....right. I remember reading that. Duh, Tak. :oops:
kiwi_2005
10-02-10, 08:35 PM
Im watching Hunt for Red October, and seeing the Typhoon class, I nearly fell off my chair. After a little research, I dug these up
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009/04/14/worlds-biggest-submarine/
Is it just me or is EVERYTHING that involves nuclear technology from the USSR looks like its hundreds of years old, with things broken and shattered?
Dont forget to grab the Typhoon sub mod for SH4 and try out all the crazy Ivans attack runs as you like against taskforces. :shucks:
Legionary74
10-02-10, 09:05 PM
Dont have SH4.
Castout
10-02-10, 09:37 PM
No, but they've got this painted on all the torps:
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_EWCogYKTe0M/SXiu_nHzBNI/AAAAAAAAAGA/QiE-gUAmeE0/s400/Putin_cazando_Siberia-702624.jpg
Was thinking more like Putin clone army but that's scary enough :yep:
Putin launched from vertical ballistic tube, Putin launched from torpedo tube, Putin launched from conning tower, .....
[To fellow Russians don't take offence it's a joke :-D, really it is)
Legionary74
10-02-10, 09:42 PM
----
Gotta agree on Putin, he knows how to play the press and be the strong leader that Russia wants (and many would say, needs).
Wow, TLAM Strike....fantastic scoop on those pics, good find, militaryphotos is a real hive of information, I must have another scan through there, there's a lot of very good stuff.
Windows for Boomers though, sign of the times that the sort of home software that we use is adapted into the military...but then again, doesn't most of our home equipment come from the military at some point in its life?
Computers certainly wouldn't be around in their current form if the need to calculate complex ballistic trajectories wasn't so high.
Nice to see the good old circular sonar display on the St Petersburg, I never could get the hang of that on SC or DW...waterfalls all the way for me (but then again, like I said, I came from Fast Attack so I learnt modern subs from the waterfall) and the course on the map reminds me of some of my lurkings waiting for something to come into range to trail.
Andre (http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009/04/14/worlds-biggest-submarine/?cid=1558014) says:
August 22, 2010 at 6:25 pm (http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2009/04/14/worlds-biggest-submarine/#comment-1558014)
Hello comrades the red army is the best, and USA is Emperialist sh!t. cccp foreverHAHAHA !
http://img837.imageshack.us/img837/7418/yeux07.gif
Castout
10-03-10, 09:32 AM
Well Russia is not the communist Soviet Union any longer. In fact Putin jailed communist party fund supporter and gone is the day of state atheism. Just take a peek in Moscow..Luxury and sports cars lining up. Russian rich people are the people who have the most money in Europe right now. They go partying in the Mediterranean and spend their money on gals and luxury toys . . . . .some even tried to buy Monaco citizenship.
http://englishrussia.com/index.php/2006/08/21/bentley-in-snow/
They go partying in the Mediterranean
Fair remark. Much russians buy expensive (!) villas in the middle of nowhere along the mediterranean coast which you can only reach by boat... Just cause no ones able to afford them in their place, in fact.
But well, I won't blame them for favouring our economy.
[/off-topic]
Kazuaki Shimazaki II
10-04-10, 08:52 PM
Soviet submarine designers had a penchant for extremes. This can be seen in the obsession with the 'largest' (Typhoon), 'fastest' (Alpha) and 'deepest' (Mike). The problem is that they tended to push the envelope further than what the technolgy of the day allowed. This meant that most of their designs were problematic, to say the least. In the case of the Typhoon, it was the enormous amount of maintenance required between patrols that made the boats too expensive to operate regularly. So the Typhoon really became a cool, if impractical submarine design.
To be fair to the Soviet designers in this, they are really hurt by the weakness of the Soviet Navy's support mechanism. For example, the Typhoon was not supposed to be quite that massive submerged, but there wasn't enough draft in their channels, and instead of dredging the channel deeper, the submarine itself was made yet larger with a huge (even by Soviet standards) reserve buoyancy so when its draft after blowing is reduced.
For the Alfa, the problem of its coolant freezing up may have been much improved if only the damn base can provide a steady supply of electricity...
Castout
10-05-10, 04:56 AM
My personal assessment judging from the firepower of the average Soviet naval combatant both surface and sub-surface it is clear to me that they were worried about the numbers of enemy naval combatants they would have to fight at sea in the event war becoming a reality.
It is the only logical reason why the Soviet tried to pack so many weapon systems into a naval combat platform.
It(fear of perceived enemy naval prowess or superiority) might also be the main reason or drive to their eagerness to innovate and to go to the extreme such as in the case of their Alfa or Sierra or Typhoon.
A secondary logical reason to be drawn would be a mild lack of trust to some of their weapon system effectiveness.
Raptor1
10-05-10, 05:52 AM
My personal assessment judging from the firepower of the average Soviet naval combatant both surface and sub-surface it is clear to me that they were worried about the numbers of enemy naval combatants they would have to fight at sea in the event war becoming a reality.
It is the only logical reason why the Soviet tried to pack so many weapon systems into a naval combat platform.
It(fear of perceived enemy naval prowess or superiority) might also be the main reason or drive to their eagerness to innovate and to go to the extreme such as in the case of their Alfa or Sierra or Typhoon.
A secondary logical reason to be drawn would be a mild lack of trust to some of their weapon system effectiveness.
I don't see the need to analyze the number of weapons crammed into Soviet warships; if you were designing a missile cruiser, would you not want to fit as many weapons on it as you can in any case?
Castout
10-05-10, 06:20 AM
I don't see the need to analyze the number of weapons crammed into Soviet warships; if you were designing a missile cruiser, would you not want to fit as many weapons on it as you can in any case?
Actually the West had more modest firepower compared to the Soviet and fewer weapon systems as well in general.
Anyway it was just an expression of the little observation and opinion I hold about the Soviet naval forces...to me obviously they were feeling insecure at the prospect of war at sea. . .which is soundly based since NATO had more surface ships than Soviet did not to mention Aircraft carrier strike groups. Like it or not the West ruled the ocean and hold supremacy and still does. More reason the Soviet built so many submarines as they didn't think they would be able to match the surface fleet ship-to-ship number wise.
TLAM Strike
10-05-10, 01:21 PM
Actually the West had more modest firepower compared to the Soviet and fewer weapon systems as well in general.
No NATO had its weapons more evenly distributed. Almost all NATO warships had Harpoon or Exocet aboard in addition to their other weapon (SAM or ASROC some times both). While only the large Soviet warships had ASMs or ASROCs with their SAMs- almost no Soviet warship had ASROC or ASW Heli, AAW SAMs, and ASMs. Many US warships did.
nikimcbee
10-06-10, 01:57 PM
Soviet submarine designers had a penchant for extremes. This can be seen in the obsession with the 'largest' (Typhoon), 'fastest' (Alpha) and 'deepest' (Mike). The problem is that they tended to push the envelope further than what the technolgy of the day allowed. This meant that most of their designs were problematic, to say the least. In the case of the Typhoon, it was the enormous amount of maintenance required between patrols that made the boats too expensive to operate regularly. So the Typhoon really became a cool, if impractical submarine design.
You are totally correct. The designs are great, but where the Soviets failed was in their component quality that goes into the subs. The Russians aren't known for their quality control. (see electronics). I would imagine that their newest subs are better, but I can't vouch for the stuff they put in them now.:hmmm:
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