Do I need to go back to Torpedo school??

[fastfed]

Coming from GWX3 and back to SH4. TMO and RSRD installed..

I don't play manual targeting, not yet at least. But with SH3, I would get the targets location, Ask W/O for the identification of vessel, Check its draft and set my torps to about a meter or so below the draft, usually high speed..

I just set 10 fish at the Akita Maru, the draft says 24 feet.. Now I think its automatically set because sometimes I notice the depth setting for the torpedo is about that, when I lock on..

But in anycase, I tried 25-26-27 feet.. All three went under as if the draft was only "5" feet..

I assume contact influence is like magneto? In anycase I decided to try the next set of 5 torpedo's with contact and set for 5 feet.. ONE WENT UNDER THE KEEL!!

1 hit and bounced and the last of the 10 fish hit and split the ship in half..

I have to be doing SOMETHING wrong.. There is no way 10?? fish are needed right?

I'm a little lost :)

[razark]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo#Running_too_deep

Early war Mark 14s? Awful things. Loads of problems.


There is nothing wrong with your torpedoes. You are obviously using them incorrectly. You need to train in proper torpedo usage, and your crew needs better training in proper torpedo maintenance procedures. The Mark 14 torpedo with Mark VI Exploder is a perfectly fine weapon, and if y'all weren't such dunderheads, you might actually sink something.

BuOrd

[Ducimus]

Now I think its automatically set because sometimes I notice the depth setting for the torpedo is about that, when I lock on..

First time you lock on, yeah it does that. I never did like that. Im not sure if its setting the depth to be exactly the keel depth, a couple feet below, or above it. I never liked this feature, because i usually, out of force of habit, set the torpedos to run as shallow as possible.

why?

read on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo#Problems


A little quote:
"America entered the war with torpedoes far inferior to those of the enemy, and the fault lay squarely with the United States Bureau of Ordnance. It was ineffectual in research and development, inept in testing. It was inadequate in manufacturing, and feeble in its supervision of Newport. It was wanting in collegiality with the rest of the Navy, and it failed to trust those fighting under the Pacific surface."

A little history....
The mark 14 torpedo was tested twice before the war.

The first torpedo fired, ran under the target and didn't explode. The second one did explode. Since the 2nd torpedo worked, they stopped test firing because it was deemed expensive. So....... the US submarine force, went to war with, what in essence was a torpedo with a 50% failure rate. Had the tested it further, i'm sure that failure rate would have been much higher.

[ETR3(SS)]

Welcome to the nightmare that is the Mk 14 torpedo.:O: Don't worry they get better in time, but in the mean time set for contact, fast speed, and as shallow as you can set it.

[Sailor Steve]

I wish to object. All the stories about problems with the Mk 14 torpedo, and especially the Mk VI magnetic exploder, are lies. There is nothing wrong with that device. I know because Admiral Christie said so. The fact that he was part of the team that developed it has nothing to do with his opinion, and nothing to do with the fact that his command in Fremantle held onto the Mk VI for five months after Admiral Lockwood ordered them disabled.

So there. :O:

[fastfed]

WOW!! This actually makes me feel happy.. Happy that they are adding in the problems with the 14's.. So when I get the 18's I will have an entire new experience?

[fastfed]

I wish to object. All the stories about problems with the Mk 14 torpedo, and especially the Mk VI magnetic exploder, are lies. There is nothing wrong with that device. I know because Admiral Christie said so. The fact that he was part of the team that developed it has nothing to do with his opinion, and nothing to do with the fact that his command in Fremantle held onto the Mk VI for five months after Admiral Lockwood ordered them disabled.

So there. :O:

Great! now I'm all confused again! First subsim fans are telling me to set shallow and contact, and Steve Sailor who seems to be great friends with some Admiral Christie guy, says there is nothing wrong with the 14's..

:salute:

[fastfed]

Its funny, everytime I get a "single contact" and its a plane I crash dive.. Im so used to the germans and their non advancement when it came to radar technology.. When a plane was contacted, it usually meant they contacted you!

I am just finally realizing that my radar is picking up the plane, but it doesn't mean the plane knows where I am :) Lovin it :)


quick question.. I just got a message about the doolittle raid.. I am curious.. With TMO and RSRD, if I was on the shore of Tokyo, there is no way I would see the b-25's right??

[NorthBeach]

The problems with the Mk 14 lessen as the war progresses. The Mk 18 is a slug. Only runs @ 29kts for 4000 yds (and only carries 575lbs of Torpex vs 643lbs for the Mk 14). But, it is electric. Thus harder for the IJN to detect. IMO, not worth carrying more than a few after they become available in 44. I prefer to stick with the Mk 14 and work around its shortcomings.

If you can map that an aircraft contact won't get within 5 miles of your boat, don't bother pulling the plug. They won't see you.

I've never sailed over to see if Doolittle's raid is scripted (nor have I looked in the ME). But, you can bet Armistead has.

[Sailor Steve]

Great! now I'm all confused again! First subsim fans are telling me to set shallow and contact, and Steve Sailor who seems to be great friends with some Admiral Christie guy, says there is nothing wrong with the 14's..

:salute:
:rotfl2:

Don't be confused. The Mk 14 was indeed a source of nightmares for sub skippers. Confounding the problem was the fact that they didn't know what the problem was! They only knew that they were suffering a lot of "misses", and the higher-ups kept telling them it was their fault for bad shooting! As for "setting for shallow and contact", in real life they didn't have "contact" and "magnetic" settings. Both pistols were installed, and the only way to disable the magnetic pistol was to take the torpedo apart and remove it. Once someone started to figure out that there might be a problem with it some enterprising captains had their torpedo chiefs do exactly that. But there was no switch to do it on demand.

It really was a nightmare.

[Alky]

As for "setting for shallow and contact", in real life they didn't have "contact" and "magnetic" settings. Both pistols were installed, and the only way to disable the magnetic pistol was to take the torpedo apart and remove it.
Being a noob and not well versed in the art of sub warfare, I would have thought "magnetic" would be a far better method for targeting, why is it not?:o

[Armistead]

You can always carry some M10's, not as powerful, but they work.

[razark]

Being a noob and not well versed in the art of sub warfare, I would have thought "magnetic" would be a far better method for targeting, why is it not?:o
The magnetic torpedo pistol was developed on the Atlantic Coast of the US, far from the area they were used in wartime. The Earth's magnetic field varies enough that the pistol did not function correctly. Add in inadequate testing, and refusal of higher up commanders to recognize that the pistol was failing (among other issues), and you have a very useless piece of equipment.

It's good in theory, but if it doesn't work, it's worthless.

[fastfed]

The problems with the Mk 14 lessen as the war progresses. The Mk 18 is a slug. Only runs @ 29kts for 4000 yds (and only carries 575lbs of Torpex vs 643lbs for the Mk 14). But, it is electric. Thus harder for the IJN to detect. IMO, not worth carrying more than a few after they become available in 44. I prefer to stick with the Mk 14 and work around its shortcomings.

If you can map that an aircraft contact won't get within 5 miles of your boat, don't bother pulling the plug. They won't see you.

I've never sailed over to see if Doolittle's raid is scripted (nor have I looked in the ME). But, you can bet Armistead has.


Wait a minute.. So what youre basically saying is the only approach to a good shot would be a 90 degree starboard or port shot on a merchant.. No angle shots or even bow shots??

Because if the depth settings and magneto's are useless in the game (and in real life) then I am stuck shooting one ship at a time? This sucks !

[razark]

Wait a minute.. So what youre basically saying is the only approach to a good shot would be a 90 degree starboard or port shot on a merchant.. No angle shots or even bow shots??

Because if the depth settings and magneto's are useless in the game (and in real life) then I am stuck shooting one ship at a time? This sucks !
Actually, with the Mark 14, shooting a 90 degree shot would most likely crush the firing pin, and result in a dud. Go for an angle shot.

And shoot as many ships as you can at a time.

[Diopos]

Actually a 90° torpedo intercept angle could cause even greater problems as the "trigger mechanism" could deform, on contact with the hull, before comencing the detonation. In this context the shots would be more "productive" if they were lightly angled (compared to a 90° angle).

But why are you that suprised? Early war german torpedoes had similar problems, too. In fact, too similar because, IIRC, the Mk 14 was based on the exact torpedoes the U-boats used (to the more knowledgeable: please correct me if I am wrong). Didn't you get duds in SH3? :hmmm:



.

[razark]

In fact, too similar because, IIRC, the Mk 14 was based on the exact torpedoes the U-boats used (to the more knowledgeable: please correct me if I am wrong).
I believe it was the Mark 18 that was a copy of a German torpedo that was recovered.

[Sailor Steve]

The American, British and German magnetic exploders were all based on the WW1 German magnetic mine design. And they all had similar problems.

[fastfed]

I think the American's had the worst situations with Dud torpedoes than any other nation (ww2)

I mean, nothing is worse than a torpedo that shoots straight, hot and normal.....


And then turns back and explodes your ship... lol

I am gonna carry some Mark 10's with me.. I hear those at least go the correct depth and magneto's work.. ??

[moha14881]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_14_torpedo#Running_too_deep

Early war Mark 14s? Awful things. Loads of problems.

Torpedo depth on akita maru at draft 24ft leads to no detonation I've watched the torpedoes going to the ship with no results!!!:down:
At 15:20 ft Torps got the ship finally to the bottom.:arrgh!:.