Time for you armchair economists to spin, again

[Torvald Von Mansee]

http://www.slate.com/id/2268872/

[Ducimus]

Oh, this should be good.

As to the article,
I don't BS myself. I am poor. I make half of what my parents made at my age. I acknowledge that i will never own a house, My education has amounted to nothing, my Cost of living goes up, my pay stays the same, I get no bonuses (though i am promised them, i never see them) and all the while corporate executives get fat bonuses, fly around the world on the companies dime, "3rd party" jobs or flat out cut positions. The class divide is VERY noticeable IMO.

I am not a happy camper. At this point, i am grateful i have a job at all. I have no illusions of upward mobility, pay raises or promotions. They are not there, they do not exist. Things need to change, but at least i'm not living in a card board box just yet.


I find the notion of a class war intriguing, and would like to subscribe to the newsletter. :O:

[SteamWake]

Noah is a graduate of Harvard University, from which he graduated cum laude in 1980 and where he was an editor of the Harvard Advocate. He lives in Washington, DC.

I Thought I had heard of this guy before.


Today, the richest 1 percent account for 24 percent of the nation's income,


and a much MUCH greater percentage of taxes.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

and a much MUCH greater percentage of taxes.

I take it, than, you are in the top 1%? After all, why would YOU object, otherwise, to better government services for YOU if YOU'RE not the one paying for it? Of course not!! That would be stupid!! Especially since trickle down seems to be pretty much debunked.

Also:

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_k07pirzBU34/S1XuEqs17lI/AAAAAAAADXk/lJ7t-y2rM9g/s400/tiny-violin1.jpg

[Sailor Steve]

And you talk about spin! Could you possibly address his point, which is that the rich already pay the lion's share of all taxes paid?

And your comment about government services? How about this: Why don't you tax everyone 100%, and then give all of us what you think we need? Try that and you'll see a real class war.

[Ducimus]

And you talk about spin! Could you possibly address his point, which is that the rich already pay the lion's share of all taxes paid?



I am moved to but a single tear... an alligator tear.

[Sailor Steve]

I am moved to but a single tear... an alligator tear.
It would be hypocritical of me to complain about social services, since I am the benificiary of some of them. I don't even know that I'm right where taxes are concerned, or where socialism is concerned.

My only real complaint in this is people like Torvald who like to throw out barbs and insults, but never really discuss the situation from an honest standpoint, i.e. talking about the pros and cons of every posible solution.

He, as far as I can see, is the Rush Limbaugh of the left, and least as far as this limited forum is concerned.

[SteamWake]

I take it, than, you are in the top 1%? After all, why would YOU object, otherwise, to better government services for YOU if YOU'RE not the one paying for it? Of course not!! That would be stupid!! Especially since trickle down seems to be pretty much debunked.

Also:



Who said I objected, I just pointe out an oft ignored fact.

To me this is article just another egghead smarter than everyone in the room spouting off his opinions.

But enjoy your class warfare and talking points.

[The Third Man]

I think your title is wrong. "Time for you armchair economists to spin, again' What you meant was, "Time for you armchair Communists to spin, again"


:D

[Ducimus]

Da! Comrade commisar! :O:

[gimpy117]

I Thought I had heard of this guy before.



and a much MUCH greater percentage of taxes.

the top one percent hold 23.5% of the wealth, so complaining about paying 25% is like going to the ER for a paper cut.

[SteamWake]

the top one percent hold 23.5% of the wealth, so complaining about paying 25% is like going to the ER for a paper cut.

Its more like 40% and again who said I was complaining?

http://www.ntu.org/tax-basics/who-pays-income-taxes.html

[Zachstar]

I will say this. I would not mind losing most of my Tax rebate if it was guarnteed to go into gov purchases of solar and wind power along with Algae fuel.

To an extent the gov does this the military is buying a heap of fuel to test its effectiveness in case of national emergency. And more facilities are using solar assistance these days.

Hell I would not mind that AND a huge tax cut for the rich. Tho ONLY if NAFTA is repealed and ALL Tax cuts are removed for companies that outsource more than 100 jobs. (That means anyone being paid anywhere other than through US payroll tax system)

[SteamWake]

If wind, solar, or alge energy sources were viable and profitable private industry would drive them.

By the way did Tboon ever get all those un-installed windmills off his property?

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/bus/stories/011310dnbuspickens.6ebd955b.html

These systems arent viable or competitive therefore it is evidently the goverments job :doh:

[Takeda Shingen]

Actually, I'm rather supportive of any alternative energy program, sponsered by the government or not. If we can get ourselves off of the oil, then we can let the Arabs and the Israelis shoot at each other over their desserts as much as they like without having every silly decision they make effect the energy supply.

[August]

...then we can let the Arabs and the Israelis shoot at each other over their desserts as much as they like without having every silly decision they make effect the energy supply.

I don't follow your reasoning Takeda. Why would getting off Arab oil cause us to abandon the Israelis?

[Takeda Shingen]

I don't follow your reasoning Takeda. Why would getting off Arab oil cause us to abandon the Israelis?

It's pretty clear that nearly every conflict that we have had in the region has the state of Israel at it's core. Without the need for oil, we have no reason to continue to spoonfeed the Israeli military-industrial complex, as the region ceases to have any strategic or economic value. As it stands now, peace and stability help to keep the oil prices down. Without the need to dirty our hands to keep the peace, and the prices in check, we can roll back our aid and spend our tax dollars on preparing our military for the 21st century.

[August]

It's pretty clear that nearly every conflict that we have had in the region has the state of Israel at it's core. Without the need for oil, we have no reason to continue to spoonfeed the Israeli military-industrial complex, as the region ceases to have any strategic or economic value. As it stands now, peace and stability help to keep the oil prices down. Without the need to dirty our hands to keep the peace, and the prices in check, we can roll back our aid and spend our tax dollars on preparing our military for the 21st century.

That still doesn't make any sense.

First off Israel hasn't been the core of every ME conflict. OIF, DS, Iran/Iraq none of those involved the Israelis at all except peripherally during DS.

Second our appetite for Arab oil has nothing do do with our support for Israel. The Jews don't have any and the Arabs still sell us their oil in spite of our support to Israel.

Third how do you think a war to the death between Israel and the Arab nations, the logical conclusion to our abandonment of the only functioning democracy in the region, would affect oil prices? Especially if Israel decides to let loose her nukes to prevent being overwhelmed?

[Takeda Shingen]

That still doesn't make any sense.

First off Israel hasn't been the core of every ME conflict. OIF, DS, Iran/Iraq none of those involved the Israelis at all except peripherally during DS.

Second our appetite for Arab oil has nothing do do with our support for Israel. The Jews don't have any and the Arabs still sell us their oil in spite of our support to Israel.

Third how do you think a war to the death between Israel and the Arab nations, the logical conclusion to our abandonment of the only functioning democracy in the region, would affect oil prices? Especially if Israel decides to let loose her nukes to prevent being overwhelmed?

It would be impossible for me to disagree more. As I said, nearly every conflict involves some state's, or group of states', relation with Israel. It's why Syria sponsers terrorism. It's why Iran sponsors terrorism. It's why Iran wants nuclear weapons. And every time there is a problem, we (the US) need to go and make sure that all of the stable governments don't go blowing each other to kingdom come. This always involves a tightrope routine in balancing the Israelis with the Saudis and Egyptians, who go along with the program, but only in the most unenthusiastic manner.

And so we take everybody by the hand and sit them down in the sandbox together and tell them to play nice, while they steal each other's Matchbox trucks when we aren't looking and blame each other for the act. And we do this dance so that stability, and our interests, are preserved. Once our interests are no longer in the region, we would have no reason to do the dance. It really is that simple. It no longer would matter what the oil prices were.

It is not, nor has it ever been, about democracy.

[August]

And so we take everybody by the hand and sit them down in the sandbox together and tell them to play nice, while they steal each other's Matchbox trucks when we aren't looking and blame each other for the act.

Matchbox trucks? You are trivializing the likely death of millions of people Dude.

[gimpy117]

Back on the energy topic:

NULCEAR!

thats the only viable "clean energy source".
We need breeder reactors to be legal though. Then we can rejuvenate spent material. Where I live, we are losing our base load power. Everyone Is like "were hippies and we want solar, wind and hydroelectric!". The problem is, We have no large rivers, and the sun does not shine or a wind blow 24/7. A Fission reaction however, goes as long as you want to.