15 Great Leaders Through History

[Gerald]

http://www.life.com/image/53370403/in-gallery/36522/15-great-leaders-through-history

[frau kaleun]

No love for Shackleton, I guess.

[Gerald]

Probably not

[Takeda Shingen]

Tak's view of the compilation.

Probably belongs on the list:

Golda Meir
Franklin Roosevelt
Wiston Churchill
Martin Luther King Jr.
Mohandes Ghandi
Nelson Mandela

Probably doesn't belong on the list:

Gloria Stienem
Eleanor Roosevelt
Douglas MacAurthur
John Paul II

What?:

Vince Lombardi
Steve Jobs
James T Kirk--wasn't even real
Oprah Winfrey
Count Basie--Love the music, but a great leader of history?

Overall, the list is very, very short-sighted. Even in the terms of American history, most of the 'great American presidents' are absent. Where are Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, Jackson and the rest? Going a step further and outside of the US, where are Napoleon Bonaparte, Lord Nelson, Frederick the Great, Catherine the Great, Ivan III, Elizabeth I, Frederick Barbarosa, Richard I, Charlemange, Constantine I, and Saladin? Going further, what about, Ceasar Agustus, Marcus Aurelius, Alexander the Great, Nebuchadnezzar II and Ramses II? Among the great idealists and philosphers, what of Kant, Hobbes, Descartes, Rousseau, Schopenhauer, Voltaire, Nietzsche, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, et al?

On the whole, Life has compiled a very silly list.

[The Third Man]

The greatest............Temujin. Or, Alexander of Macedonia

[Gerald]

Tak's view of the compilation.

Probably belongs on the list:

Golda Meir
Franklin Roosevelt
Wiston Churchill
Martin Luther King Jr.
Mohandes Ghandi
Nelson Mandela

Probably doesn't belong on the list:

Gloria Stienem
Eleanor Roosevelt
Douglas MacAurthur
John Paul II

What?:

Vince Lombardi
Steve Jobs
James T Kirk--wasn't even real
Oprah Winfrey
Count Basie--Love the music, but a great leader of history?

Overall, the list is very, very short-sighted. Even in the terms of American history, most of the 'great American presidents' are absent. Where are Lincoln, Washington, Jefferson, Jackson and the rest? Going a step further and outside of the US, where are Napoleon Bonaparte, Lord Nelson, Frederick the Great, Catherine the Great, Ivan III, Elizabeth I, Frederick Barbarosa, Richard I, Charlemange, Constantine I, and Saladin? Going further, what about, Ceasar Agustus, Marcus Aurelius, Alexander the Great, Nebuchadnezzar II and Ramses II? Among the great idealists and philosphers, what of Kant, Hobbes, Descartes, Rousseau, Schopenhauer, Voltaire, Nietzsche, Aristotle, Plato, Socrates, et al?

On the whole, Life has compiled a very silly list. :yep:

[Diopos]

Once upon a time there was a magazine called "LIFE" ...

.

[frau kaleun]

I think the inclusion of people like Lombardi and Basie is an indication that they are looking at leadership not in terms of the political or social impact made by the people in question, but simply in terms of them being great leaders in whatever type of leadership role they had.... whether it was leading an army, a country, a football team, or a band.

Still doesn't explain why no love for Shackleton, lol.

[Sailor Steve]

On the whole, Life has compiled a very silly list.
"Silly" is probably the best term available. Even if it was titled "Great Leaders of the Twentieth Century" it would still be silly.

[Takeda Shingen]

I think the inclusion of people like Lombardi and Basie is an indication that they are looking at leadership not in terms of the political or social impact made by the people in question, but simply in terms of them being great leaders in whatever type of leadership role they had.... whether it was leading an army, a country, a football team, or a band.

Still doesn't explain why no love for Shackleton, lol.

Basie then remains a poor choice. Why not Edward Kennedy Ellington, who's musical impact was the greatest of any of the 'big band' era? Or, even Benny Goodman, who pioneered mixed race music and fought discrimination from promoters and club owners who prohibited his band to play because he hired African American musicians?

For athletics, Pop Warner or Joe McCarthy or the venerable Yogi Berra would have been superior decisions.

[frau kaleun]

Basie then remains a poor choice. Why not Edward Kennedy Ellington, who's musical impact was the greatest of any of the 'big band' era? Or, even Benny Goodman, who pioneered mixed race music, and fought discrimination from promoters and club owners who prohibited his band to play because he hired African American musicians?

For athletics, Pop Warner or Joe McCarthy or the venerable Yogi Berra woudl have been superior decisions.

They gave their reason for including Basie in the caption to the photo. Purely anecdotal, but nothing to do with being a pioneer in fighting discrimination in the business or anything else other than what happened when he sat down and "took over" a group of musicians.

I'm not saying it's a great list or that I agree with all of it, lol, just that the criteria they are using for what makes someone a "great leader" and in what context is not what one usually expects with lists like this (judging by the responses here so far).

That said, as a bandleader pure and simple, IMO Count Basie kicks Benny Goodman's butt, takes his lunch money, steals his girlfriend, and drives off with her in Goodman's car. :D

But I'm right there with you on Kirk. Including him is just bizarre. Everybody knows Picard is way better. :O:

[Bilge_Rat]

here is my list.

17 political leaders who had the most significant impact, good or bad, in the age they lived in:

Mao
Stalin
Hitler
Napoleon
Frederick the Great
Peter the Great
Louis XIV
Akbar the Great
Charles V
Tamerlane
Genghis Khan
Charlemagne
Muhammad
Justinian I
Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus
Alexander the Great
Ramses II the Great

yes, not one american, but it is hard to pick out of 40 centuries of recorded human history.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

My list:

Kemal Ataturk
Alexander the Great
Ieyasu Tokugawa
Mohammed
Shi Huangdi
FDR
Winston Churchill
Ghandi
George Washington
Augustus
Hadrian
Genghis Khan
Abraham Lincoln
Peter the Great
Charles Martel

Of course, this list is limited by my biases and ignorance.

[Torvald Von Mansee]

here is my list.

17 political leaders who had the most significant impact, good or bad, in the age they lived in:

Mao
Stalin
Hitler
Napoleon
Frederick the Great
Peter the Great
Louis XIV
Akbar the Great
Charles V
Tamerlane
Genghis Khan
Charlemagne
Muhammad
Justinian I
Gaius Julius Caesar Augustus
Alexander the Great
Ramses II the Great

yes, not one american, but it is hard to pick out of 40 centuries of recorded human history.

I thought about including Tamerlane on my list, but limited myself to 15. And what I could rattle off my head.

Personally, I think Thutmose III was a better Pharoah than Ramses II.

Indeed, he's laughing at you!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ee/Thutmose_III_Head.jpg

[Bilge_Rat]

Personally, I think Thutmose III was a better Pharoah than Ramses II.


its really a coin toss between them if you are going to pick a great Pharaoh.

Charles martel is an interesting choice, but I guess a case can be made that he stopped the muslims from conquering all of western europe.

[Sailor Steve]

Charles martel is an interesting choice, but I guess a case can be made that he stopped the muslims from conquering all of western europe.
And Ferdinand and Isabella kicked them out of Spain. That counts for at least an Honorable Mention.

[Bilge_Rat]

And Ferdinand and Isabella kicked them out of Spain. That counts for at least an Honorable Mention.

true and they sent Columbus on his way as well.

[Sailor Steve]

true and they sent Columbus on his way as well.
I left that part out because I felt that it owed less to good leadership than to greed, or at least international competition.

[frau kaleun]

Napoleon, in an epic win FTW.

http://epicwinftw.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/5457468b-d35e-4363-bf7d-ae2aede7c089.jpg

[Torvald Von Mansee]

Charles Martel is an interesting choice, but I guess a case can be made that he stopped the muslims from conquering all of western europe.

And that's why I chose him!!! Right guy at the right time made all the difference.

[Raptor1]

Hmm, great leaders through history, let's see.


Alexander the Great
Gaius Marius
Augustus
Charles Martel
Charlemagne
Genghis Khan
Jogaila, I think
Charles V
Maurice of Orange
Gustav Adolphus
Oliver Cromwell
Louis XIV (Maybe, a lot of what happened during his reign is directly or indirectly responsible for the French Revolution)
Frederick the Great
Napoleon
Bismarck

These are the ones I can think of, I'm probably forgetting quite a few important ones. Also disregarded military-only leaders, though I would consider quite a few of those as great leaders.

By the end of the 19th century it becomes hard to find leaders who would go into this list; though there were good leaders, things became way more decentralized.

[Bilge_Rat]

Louis XIV is also important since he established the french language as the working language of europe for the next 250 years until it was replaced by english.

I was reading a book recently about the Austrian army during the Seven Years War. Austria-Hungary was a very multi lingual state at that time, but most of the officers were german speaking Austrians. However, in almost every military conference, french was used as the working language since every officer had at least a working knowledge of french.

[Jimbuna]

What was James T Kirk doing on the list? :doh:

http://rickoshea.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/star-trek-inspirational-poster.jpg

Oh I see :smug:

[nikimcbee]

:har: At Jim.
I vote Peter the Great. I'll add maybe Robert E Lee (except for Gettysburg:haha:).

[Sailor Steve]

@ Jim: you can question the inclusion of someone named Jim? I wouldn't have thought it of you. :D

@ McBee: We've argued about Lee before. Say what I want about generalship, I don't think there is any doubt about his leadership quailities. The man was a born leader, and one of the true greats in that department.

[Takeda Shingen]

I vote Peter the Great.

The whole 'build me my city no matter the cost' thing really puts me off.

[Tchocky]

No love for Shackleton, I guess.

Set goals accomplished - 0/1

Any other comments - Nobody died!

:O:

[frau kaleun]

Set goals accomplished - 0/1

Any other comments - Nobody died!

:O:

My high opinion of Shackleton is based solely on the latter fact, lol.

I think what he ended up accomplishing, under the circumstances, was far more impressive than what he would have accomplished had the initial goal of the expedition been achieved.

However IMO much credit must also be given to Frank Worsley, who managed to get the James Caird from Elephant Island to South Georgia Island with nothing more than a sextant he couldn't use most of the time due to the weather. Incidentally he was also captain of a Q-ship during WWI and was decorated for his services in that conflict. He also volunteered for service in the merchant fleet during WWII and had secured a position but lost it when somebody did the math and realized how old he was. :D

[Rilder]

Mithridates VI the Great of Pontus.

Though he screwed up killing 80,000 Romani living in his lands and provoking the full wrath of the senate...

[August]

No matter which 15 I pick it still excludes many more equally great leaders.

[Bilge_Rat]

The whole 'build me my city no matter the cost' thing really puts me off.


You need to be directly responsible for 100,000 deaths before they call you "the Great"...:)

[TLAM Strike]

You need to be directly responsible for 100,000 deaths before they call you "the Great"...:)

Do kills made in Call of Duty count towards that total? :hmmm: